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Discussion Starter #1
I am not formally educated with a college degree but I have great depth of knowledge with what ever I get my hands on to read or learn. I soak up knowledge like a sponge but I am inexperienced with college. I am very gifted with music and art but this woman I was dating who is ESTJ prefers her ex boyfriend who has an MBA in microbiology even though he doesn't know anything else but microbiology and hes lazy and won't go to work and lives on food stamps. Do women choose smarter men over average smart?
 

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I am a material person (and I am not a woman so this might not matter to you), but I don't care about your level of post-secondary education as long as you can keep up with me in debates. If you can make solid, logical points, if you can point out logical fallacies, if you can say things that aren't stupid, you'll earn my respect. I would rather have someone that is book smart than street smart, but a mixture of both is fine.

You must understand, she probably values her ex more because he has more economic potential than you do.

Potential means a lot.
 

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I am impressed by people with common sense, and people who have a deep interest in something. I would prefer the person I am dating/my spouse to be actively into learning something. I would consider dating someone without a college education or degree. It really depends. How do you know she prefers him? Has she told you this directly?
 
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I am impressed by people with common sense, and people who have a deep interest in something. I would prefer the person I am dating/my spouse to be actively into learning something. I would consider dating someone without a college education or degree. It really depends. How do you know she prefers him? Has she told you this directly?
Here words exactly:
"God told me in prayer to stop seeing you, because Im meant for someone else and I think its my ex boyfriend"

jobless...helpless ex bf who has an MBA in microbiology and lives on foodstamps while driving a lexus
 

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Here words exactly:
"God told me in prayer to stop seeing you, because Im meant for someone else and I think its my ex boyfriend"

jobless...helpless ex bf who has an MBA in microbiology and lives on foodstamps while driving a lexus
:O I am speechless. I'm sorry she said that. It must really hurt, especially since her ex sounds like a loser.
 

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Here words exactly:
"God told me in prayer to stop seeing you, because Im meant for someone else and I think its my ex boyfriend"

jobless...helpless ex bf who has an MBA in microbiology and lives on foodstamps while driving a lexus
Whether you agree with her reasoning or not, she's made a decision. And as an adult, you should respect that. The best thing would be to accept it (even if you disagree that it's the best/smartest choice on her part) and move on with your own life.
 

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Here words exactly:
"God told me in prayer to stop seeing you, because Im meant for someone else and I think its my ex boyfriend"

jobless...helpless ex bf who has an MBA in microbiology and lives on foodstamps while driving a lexus
This is the most laughable excuse I ever heard of for breaking up with a person ,LOL ,seems like you really love this woman or are just jealous because she chose another guy over you, but whatever the case just respect her decision ,if you really love her then just let her do what she wants to do ,sooner or later she will understand if she made a right decision or a wrong one.Just be patient with her if you really want to keep yourself in her good book ,may be future would surprise you with some good news .
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This is the most laughable excuse I ever heard of for breaking up with a person ,LOL ,seems like you really love this woman or are just jealous because she chose another guy over you, but whatever the case just respect her decision ,if you really love her then just let her do what she wants to do ,sooner or later she will understand if she made a right decision or a wrong one.Just be patient with her if you really want to keep yourself in her good book ,may be future would surprise you with some good news .
Im not jealous,just hurt by it. I do admit I feel like crap because it makes me feel not good enough (i already fight low self esteem and I do quite well most of the time). We are on good terms,I still talk to her and Im polite and caring towards her, so yes it makes me sad.
 

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You'll probably find that, you're just not full of bullshit. He may be book smart, but you are Life smart. He may sound smart, but you are wise. Sometimes being wiser has its curse. She's too immature for you, and you're too wise for someone like her. The sooner you accept that, the less it will hurt. Move on! You'll find someone who is like you down the track.
 

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Here words exactly:
"God told me in prayer to stop seeing you, because Im meant for someone else and I think its my ex boyfriend"
I'm not sure where you got preferring intelligence from that lol. You might be putting her off some other way or more likely she just was never over her ex when she started seeing you.
 

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I would say that yes, intelligence definitely matters. And I would prefer someone that has a college degree, since it shows that the person has at least a) average intelligence b) the motivation to see things through.
 

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I am an INTP with an ESTJ. I was told my entire life that I would need a mate who was as intelligent as me or I would be unhappy. Well, I qualify for Mensa and have a BA, to give you an idea of the level I am at in terms of "book smarts." And yeah, "they" (family, general community "sense") did mean book smarts - that I'd need a degreed professional as a mate.

I ignored their advice, of course, and chose someone who was street smart, very strong, very smart at the things I was "dumb" in (relating to people, as well as mechanical, hands-on sense), honest, hard-working and felt responsible to support his family, and we are still together after 18 years.

(He (ESTJ) had dropped out of HS and got his GED later. He said he did like the fact that I was book smart because he wanted smart kids.)

So, in your case, with any girlfriend, of Western culture at least, you are facing some cultural pressure on her to be somewhat impressed by/choose "book smart" intelligence in a male. The important thing is whether or not she agrees with that, or if she just gives in to that kind of conventional influence whether or not she agrees. With the specific ESTJ girl you mention here, though, I don't know what to think, claiming God or some kind of voice or dream told her what to do is just bizarre to me.


BTW -- I don't think males are pressured much to go for intelligent females .
 

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Probably not related, but my ESTJ boyfriend prefers a significant other who has a similar amount of intellect as him.

He has his BS in Computer Science and I'm pursuing my MS in Computer Science. It doesn't seem to bother him that I'm in for more school because he's focused on work to provide for his family, who spent all their money on his education. (He's a first generation university student.)

Security is a big thing for him (as with ESTJs in general), so a significant other who can provide financial security is a huge plus. Also, having good morals and strong ideals and standards seem to be attractive to him.

We both agreed that we're very vain and status conscious, though. So this might not be the same for a lot of ESTJs.

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For me, a man who can provide, be loving and be a good role model for my future children will be more than enough. A comparable degree and someone who can stimulate me emotionally and mentally would be a plus.

But realistically, you can't get everything you want. ;)
 

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As long as she can keep her life together, knows what makes her happy, continues working and going to school (and succeeds), and takes care of her body and hygiene, that's all I ask for. That and sometimes making me a sandwich. It means a lot. I would say average intelligence will do. So long as her heart is in the right place and she genuinely cares for me, I think what comes from the heart is more meaningful than intelligence anyways.
 

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I am in a close relationship with an ESTJ who is highly educated and brilliant, and who appreciates the same in the people he gets close to. This may not be the only kind of person he likes or has dated in the past. But he does seem to appreciate education and intelligence.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm not sure where you got preferring intelligence from that lol. You might be putting her off some other way or more likely she just was never over her ex when she started seeing you.
I figured her out finally, shes a gold digger. Shes not engaged to a man nearly 20 years older than her (makes him 55-60) who has a 6 digit salary. She cares only for money or status,one or the other but thats cool now i know what she really is and Im glad im done with her nastyness
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I am an INTP with an ESTJ. I was told my entire life that I would need a mate who was as intelligent as me or I would be unhappy. Well, I qualify for Mensa and have a BA, to give you an idea of the level I am at in terms of "book smarts." And yeah, "they" (family, general community "sense") did mean book smarts - that I'd need a degreed professional as a mate.

I ignored their advice, of course, and chose someone who was street smart, very strong, very smart at the things I was "dumb" in (relating to people, as well as mechanical, hands-on sense), honest, hard-working and felt responsible to support his family, and we are still together after 18 years.

(He (ESTJ) had dropped out of HS and got his GED later. He said he did like the fact that I was book smart because he wanted smart kids.)

So, in your case, with any girlfriend, of Western culture at least, you are facing some cultural pressure on her to be somewhat impressed by/choose "book smart" intelligence in a male. The important thing is whether or not she agrees with that, or if she just gives in to that kind of conventional influence whether or not she agrees. With the specific ESTJ girl you mention here, though, I don't know what to think, claiming God or some kind of voice or dream told her what to do is just bizarre to me.


BTW -- I don't think males are pressured much to go for intelligent females .
western society dictates "intelligence" through monopoly of not only education system but also poverty vs wealth. I have met people who are far more intelligent without degrees than people who have degrees. Theoretical study is not intelligence imo,it is not applied science , nor is it applied intellect yet thats what a lot of degrees hold is just relative theories and ideas learned from books rather than experience. The economics professor at a world reknown school I have met while working at a retail job...we discussed intricate economic subjects and he was shocked I knew about it because of history studying, I could also apply experience in the business model to my own business exploration, he told me a little secret...people going to school for business do not become successful by a degree
 
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