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Hey I'm Tyler, an ISTJ, been lurking these forums for a few weeks now whenever I feel the need to validate myself it seems.

Anyhow, do you other ISTJ's out there ever feel like you randomly get into this zone, where you just completely, totally understand your feelings about a person. And your so focused on your thoughts it's almost like your having a pre-emptive conversation with that person in which you are expressing to them in the perfect words/tone/body language exactly how your feel about them. It's all happening inside your head, but everything is perfect. You know the right words to say, and you understand, in every sense of what the word understand actually means, what those words mean to you. You wish with all of your heart that at that very moment you could be telling these words to this person right now.

But it's a rare thing, and it's only (for lack of a better term) a fleeting glimpse of what feels like contact/connection with your own heart and soul. By the time you've gotten the gout to call them the moment's gone. You feel disconnected from everything you had felt. You try to piece together those words you had focused on so hard in your thoughts, and to re-create the sensation, but it's like trying to put together a puzzle with only a quarter of it's pieces.

For me this usually happens with a girl I feel very strongly for, but we have lost what little social connection we had since we graduated from high school about a year ago. But it also happens with other people/issues/your life.

I wish so much that I could be like those thoughts in my head during those moments, but in real life. So badly. For some reason I get the idea that if I were like that, that I would pretty much be jesus himself. I'd have the power to rain ultimate love down upon any human being that entered my life. Rawr. :crazy:
 

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Um maybe, I can think out how I would like a conversion/interaction to go with someone of importance but I'm also weary of this as when you think things through in your head it's based on what you know, and what you know may be wrong (I have learned this the hard way). Imagine if it all goes to plan in your head and then you act upon it with confidence and the other person says/does one thing that does not fit the plan... because it's real life and real life is unpredictable. Then what? the plan is ruined.

The first casualty of combat contact is the plan.

You would be better served if you prepare for the unknown, lets assume this is about he girl you mentioned, you have drifted apart from her over a years time, how much do you know about her now compared to then? Whats changed about her? How will this affect how the conversion will go? You can't know this by just thinking about it, you need to get back in touch with this person and get real information. Prepare for the unknown, don't plan for the ideal. Hope that makes sense.
 

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Anyhow, do you other ISTJ's out there ever feel like you randomly get into this zone, where you just completely, totally understand your feelings about a person. And your so focused on your thoughts it's almost like your having a pre-emptive conversation with that person in which you are expressing to them in the perfect words/tone/body language exactly how your feel about them. It's all happening inside your head, but everything is perfect. You know the right words to say, and you understand, in every sense of what the word understand actually means, what those words mean to you. You wish with all of your heart that at that very moment you could be telling these words to this person right now.
Yes, I have felt this before. It actually happens to me A LOT- usually when I am enjoying my alone time. Sometimes I just get so caught up in how I feel about another person, because with my alone time, I FINALLY can analyze things about them or interactions that I've had with them. When I analyze these things, I realize how great that person really is. Although sometimes, I tend to idealize other people too much (especially with guys that I have a crush on).

But it's a rare thing, and it's only (for lack of a better term) a fleeting glimpse of what feels like contact/connection with your own heart and soul. By the time you've gotten the gout to call them the moment's gone. You feel disconnected from everything you had felt. You try to piece together those words you had focused on so hard in your thoughts, and to re-create the sensation, but it's like trying to put together a puzzle with only a quarter of it's pieces.
Yeah, this happens to me too. One of my male ISTJ friends always writes me a really beautiful letter on my birthday, and I never can understand how he does it so well! I always try to do the same for him, but I have to really be "in the zone". And when I'm put under pressure, aka three days before his birthday, I just cannot do it- I totally fail. Oh well. Lately, I like to send people random texts about how I feel about them, because I never ever say mushy things like that (but some of my friends need to hear that stuff!).

For me this usually happens with a girl I feel very strongly for, but we have lost what little social connection we had since we graduated from high school about a year ago. But it also happens with other people/issues/your life.
Aha! So it's not just me that does this- I am glad. But I've realized over time that I really do have a problem with idealizing people's character/putting them on a pedestal. I find myself so "in love" with that person, but only with the person that's in my mind. I find myself having amazing conversations with people I barely know, but only because I fill in the unknown gaps with characteristics/traits that I create. It's complicated.

I wish so much that I could be like those thoughts in my head during those moments, but in real life. So badly.
All I know is this: when I find "the one" guy, I'm not going to hold anything back. I'm going to just say what I feel EXACTLY WHEN I feel it. And I know that it'll be amazing. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Trauma, I thank you for your input, but I want this discussion to be centered on these moments of clarity themselves, rather than the girl I mentioned.

Yes, I have felt this before. It actually happens to me A LOT- usually when I am enjoying my alone time. Sometimes I just get so caught up in how I feel about another person, because with my alone time, I FINALLY can analyze things about them or interactions that I've had with them. When I analyze these things, I realize how great that person really is. Although sometimes, I tend to idealize other people too much (especially with guys that I have a crush on).
Really? How often would you guesstimate it happens? For me I would say like about 2-3 times a month. It happened to me earlier today before I posted actually haha :tongue:. And yes I idealize this girl as well, so incredibly much.


Yeah, this happens to me too. One of my male ISTJ friends always writes me a really beautiful letter on my birthday, and I never can understand how he does it so well! I always try to do the same for him, but I have to really be "in the zone". And when I'm put under pressure, aka three days before his birthday, I just cannot do it- I totally fail. Oh well. Lately, I like to send people random texts about how I feel about them, because I never ever say mushy things like that (but some of my friends need to hear that stuff!).
That's an awesome thing of him to do. I totally know what you mean by how you can't pull it off if your not in that zone. I think it's because we are ISTJ's and the whole feelings/emotions thing isn't something we know like the back of our hand, so we can't just sit down and describe perfectly how we feel. I'm going to try writing my thoughts down as best I can when I have another one of these moments of clarity (I don't know what else to call it :confused:)

All I know is this: when I find "the one" guy, I'm not going to hold anything back. I'm going to just say what I feel EXACTLY WHEN I feel it. And I know that it'll be amazing. :D
One can only hope that's as easy as it sounds.

off topic: Just curious, what's the deal with all the thanking of posts?
 

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off topic: Just curious, what's the deal with all the thanking of posts?
There's no ulterior motive. If we like what you have said, we'll hit the "thanks" button.
I HAVE noticed, though, that we ISTJ's seem to be more liberal with it than some of the other types.
Maybe that's because it's easier to just hit the button than to reply with some five-paragraph reply when one or two words ("thanks", "I agree", etc.) will do?
 

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There's no ulterior motive. If we like what you have said, we'll hit the "thanks" button.
I HAVE noticed, though, that we ISTJ's seem to be more liberal with it than some of the other types.
Maybe that's because it's easier to just hit the button than to reply with some five-paragraph reply when one or two words ("thanks", "I agree", etc.) will do?
Thanks for clarification:tongue:
 

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Yes, it happens with me as well...a bit too often in fact, every 3-4 days. There is a time when in my head I can see everything playing out perfectly with me saying the right words at the right time in the right manner. However, when the moment comes, not even 10% of the deal comes out right. Its really not funny...:frustrating:

Heck, it just happenned again. The moment I read your post- I knew precisely what I would type with every word having a very nice stylistic effect to it- the way a perfect reply can be. And no, the actual reply I type, doesn't even come close.

I believe its more of a Ni function thing than not, especially with me it happens such when I am in a more Ni mode than Si. Perhaps that's why its more common with me?:confused:


Thanks here is a method of saying that you agreed with what someone posted but you won't reply saying 'I agree and I would have posted something very similar'. Sometimes, I believe in ISTJ forum, its also being used more as a way of being polite. Just to make sure that your post didn't offend anyone and to indicate your appreciation/ acknowledgement/ gratitude (depending on what situation it is).
 

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.... I'd have the power to rain ultimate love down upon any human being that entered my life. Rawr. :crazy:

Wow....this was just so poetic ...maybe, when you are in one of your creative moods and you need to burst forth with all of these great thoughts....just write it all down...the written word has great power too! If you get used to writting it down and re-reading it...it might be easier to express things and emotions over time!

I actually keep a journal just for Damascus' really bad poetry...:blushed: Every now and then I write a gem of a poem!
 

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Yes, it happens with me as well...a bit too often in fact, every 3-4 days. There is a time when in my head I can see everything playing out perfectly with me saying the right words at the right time in the right manner. However, when the moment comes, not even 10% of the deal comes out right. Its really not funny...:frustrating:

Heck, it just happenned again. The moment I read your post- I knew precisely what I would type with every word having a very nice stylistic effect to it- the way a perfect reply can be. And no, the actual reply I type, doesn't even come close.

I believe its more of a Ni function thing than not, especially with me it happens such when I am in a more Ni mode than Si. Perhaps that's why its more common with me?:confused:


Thanks here is a method of saying that you agreed with what someone posted but you won't reply saying 'I agree and I would have posted something very similar'. Sometimes, I believe in ISTJ forum, its also being used more as a way of being polite. Just to make sure that your post didn't offend anyone and to indicate your appreciation/ acknowledgement/ gratitude (depending on what situation it is).
Yea it is very frustrating. It's like your failing miserably at communicating feelings with someone else, and your seeing it happen, which gives you concrete evidence that you suck at sharing feelings.

Wow....this was just so poetic ...maybe, when you are in one of your creative moods and you need to burst forth with all of these great thoughts....just write it all down...the written word has great power too! If you get used to writting it down and re-reading it...it might be easier to express things and emotions over time!

I actually keep a journal just for Damascus' really bad poetry... Every now and then I write a gem of a poem!
Haha poetic, that's the last thing anybody would normally say about me. But yea, I'm definitely going to try writing it down next time. I've tried that once in the past, but it seemed really unnatural, as if the intention to record it counter productively killed the moment. So I think I'll have to make a habit of it, see if that helps in any way.
 

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Anyhow, do you other ISTJ's out there ever feel like you randomly get into this zone, where you just completely, totally understand your feelings about a person. And your so focused on your thoughts it's almost like your having a pre-emptive conversation with that person in which you are expressing to them in the perfect words/tone/body language exactly how your feel about them. It's all happening inside your head, but everything is perfect. You know the right words to say, and you understand, in every sense of what the word understand actually means, what those words mean to you. You wish with all of your heart that at that very moment you could be telling these words to this person right now.

But it's a rare thing, and it's only (for lack of a better term) a fleeting glimpse of what feels like contact/connection with your own heart and soul. By the time you've gotten the gout to call them the moment's gone. You feel disconnected from everything you had felt. You try to piece together those words you had focused on so hard in your thoughts, and to re-create the sensation, but it's like trying to put together a puzzle with only a quarter of it's pieces.
Welcome to classic ISTJness. This is one of our little discussed but often encountered traits. We tend to have conversations within ourselves and we think it through so carefully and it all works out so well. Then opportunity presents itself and we try to say the same things, but it all comes out wrong and we end up looking like a fool.

This is because you have carefully thought out what to say and you have mentally rehearsed it so thoroughly, that when the opportunity does arrive, your mind runs away with itself and leaves your body behind. The muscles haven't had the opportunity that the mind has had to rehearse this, because it has all occurred in your mind. No rehearsal for the muscles means no muscle memory, and any small change in something as minor as the inflection of your voice will throw you a curve...and then you get confused, yet the mind won't stop, and it ends up being this muddled mess.

If you really want this to go well, physically rehearse it in front of a mirror until it doesn't sound rehearsed. Then your mind and your muscles will have had rehearsal time together, and it is less likely that one will run off and leave the other.

HTH
 

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Welcome to classic ISTJness. This is one of our little discussed but often encountered traits. We tend to have conversations within ourselves and we think it through so carefully and it all works out so well. Then opportunity presents itself and we try to say the same things, but it all comes out wrong and we end up looking like a fool.

This is because you have carefully thought out what to say and you have mentally rehearsed it so thoroughly, that when the opportunity does arrive, your mind runs away with itself and leaves your body behind. The muscles haven't had the opportunity that the mind has had to rehearse this, because it has all occurred in your mind. No rehearsal for the muscles means no muscle memory, and any small change in something as minor as the inflection of your voice will throw you a curve...and then you get confused, yet the mind won't stop, and it ends up being this muddled mess.

If you really want this to go well, physically rehearse it in front of a mirror until it doesn't sound rehearsed. Then your mind and your muscles will have had rehearsal time together, and it is less likely that one will run off and leave the other.

HTH
That probably means its not Ni at work.

The way it happens with me is that there are no rehearsals involved beforehand. It's more of a spontaneous moment where you know the right words to say in a situation and you know that it will have the desired result. Not having a conversation with self but imagining it unfolding right in front of my eyes. Not a practised thing, more of a Fe moment, where you know the perfect words to deal with a person whether that be soothing them or keeping them happy. As if you understand the moment's situation and feelings too well. However, once the moment is gone- its gone. I hope that makes sense.
 

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That probably means its not Ni at work.

The way it happens with me is that there are no rehearsals involved beforehand. It's more of a spontaneous moment where you know the right words to say in a situation and you know that it will have the desired result. Not having a conversation with self but imagining it unfolding right in front of my eyes. Not a practiced thing, more of a Fe moment, where you know the perfect words to deal with a person whether that be soothing them or keeping them happy. As if you understand the moment's situation and feelings too well. However, once the moment is gone- its gone. I hope that makes sense.
This. Really couldn't describe it better if I tried. As for the individual functions themselves, I'm not very familiar with the theory behind that yet, I only really know the 8 different poles with a basic understanding of what they mean.

Is there anything you do to try to expand on those moments? Like writing whatever you can down? Or speaking them out loud right then and there like niss mentioned? No matter how far off base the spoken/written word you produce is from what you actually felt, I like to believe doing so consistently will just make you more comfortable with the process.
 

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This. Really couldn't describe it better if I tried. As for the individual functions themselves, I'm not very familiar with the theory behind that yet, I only really know the 8 different poles with a basic understanding of what they mean.

Is there anything you do to try to expand on those moments? Like writing whatever you can down? Or speaking them out loud right then and there like niss mentioned? No matter how far off base the spoken/written word you produce is from what you actually felt, I like to believe doing so consistently will just make you more comfortable with the process.
Glad you liked it.

As for how to deal with it. I am not entirely sure myself.
I don't know if its even possible to expand on those moments. It seems very spontaneous. I believe it has something to do with the mindset. At these moments, you are in the right mindset and somehow you know the right approach to take. I just try my best to remmeber all the main points I covered to at least come close to what I had done in my head.

You could try writing it down. Niss's advice is good. However, my mind seems to rush off in all directions at once. And by the time, I am done writing a sentence, my brain would have thought of 5 more sentences and would be thinking of sixth sentence already. By the time, you try remembering and writing the second sentence, your brain is too ahead of you for you to catch up. But maybe with practise it will become better.

Also remember speaking is a process that can never be exact. Even if you recall what you said 5 seconds ago, you will still not remember it precisely word for word. Repeating what you thought, thus wouldn't work as well. A few words will be different and the tone, emotions, paralinguistic and prosodic feature might be different as well. Its easier for me to imagine myself being compassionate. Acting/ doing it is much harder. So, speaking it in front of the mirror will seem a bit off due to the variations. How do I know? I have tried this method a few times. Though, give it a go. It might work for you.

Other than that, ask a wiser person than me.:blushed::unsure::frustrating::happy:
 

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The feeling Tyler is describing sounds more spontaneous than what I mentioned. So I'm gonna say we are talking about two different things. I believe you are describing an attribute of your inferior function, which is Ne. If so, it will become easier to do this with age, but it will never be as well developed as it is in an ENTP or ENFP.
 
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