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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"I compensated my inner security by an outward show of insecurity, or -- to put it better-- the defect corrected itself without the intervention of my will.

Somewhere deep in the background I always knew that I was two persons.
One was the son of my parents, who went to school and was less intelligent, attentive, hardworking, decent, and clean than many other boys.
The other was grown up--old, in fact-- skeptical, mistrustful, remote from the world of men, but close to nature, the earth, the sun, the moon, the weather, all living creatures, and above all close to the night, to dreams, and to whatever "God" worked directly in him.

For nature seemed, like myself, to have been set aside by God as non-divine, although created by Him as an expression of Himself. Nothing could persuade me that "in the image of God" applied only to man. In fact it seems to me that the high mountains, the rivers, lakes, trees, flowers, and animals far better exemplified the essence of God than men with the ridiculous clothes, their meanness, vanity, mendacity, and abhorrent egotism-- all qualities with which I was all too familiar with from myself, that is, personality No. 1, the schoolboy of 1890. Besides his world there existed another realm, like a temple in which anyone who entered was transformed and suddenly overpowered by a vision of the whole cosmos so that he could only marvel and admire, forgetful of himself.

Here lived the, "Other," who knew God as a hidden, personal, and at the same time suprapersonal secret. Here nothing separated man from God; indeed, it was as though the human mind looked down upon Creation simultaneously with God.

I sensed it with an overpowering premonition and intensity of feeling. At such times I knew I was worthy of myself, that I was my true self. As soon as I was alone, I could pass over to this state. I therefore sought the peace and solitude of this "Other," personality No. 2.

The play and counter play between personalities No.1 and No.2, which has run through my whole life, has nothing to do with a split or dissociation in the ordinary medical sense. On the contrary, it is played out in every individual... But he is only perceived by the very few. Most people's conscious understanding is not sufficient to realize he is also what they are. " - Memories, Dreams, and Reflections



Seems accurate in describing why INTPs can appear awkward but deep down know who they are, which surprises people who thought they were timid. An unrealized compensatory method keeping opposites in balance.

And it describes the plight of the introvert, describes why the introverts can often be happiest by themselves, in nature, and have reflective insights.
 

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"I compensated my inner security by an outward show of insecurity, or -- to put it better-- the defect corrected itself without the intervention of my will.

Somewhere deep in the background I always knew that I was two persons.
One was the son of my parents, who went to school and was less intelligent, attentive, hardworking, decent, and clean than many other boys.
The other was grown up--old, in fact-- skeptical, mistrustful, remote from the world of men, but close to nature, the earth, the sun, the moon, the weather, all living creatures, and above all close to the night, to dreams, and to whatever "God" worked directly in him.

For nature seemed, like myself, to have been set aside by God as non-divine, although created by Him as an expression of Himself. Nothing could persuade me that "in the image of God" applied only to man. In fact it seems to me that the high mountains, the rivers, lakes, trees, flowers, and animals far better exemplified the essence of God than men with the ridiculous clothes, their meanness, vanity, mendacity, and abhorrent egotism-- all qualities with which I was all too familiar with from myself, that is, personality No. 1, the schoolboy of 1890. Besides his world there existed another realm, like a temple in which anyone who entered was transformed and suddenly overpowered by a vision of the whole cosmos so that he could only marvel and admire, forgetful of himself.

Here lived the, "Other," who knew God as a hidden, personal, and at the same time suprapersonal secret. Here nothing separated man from God; indeed, it was as though the human mind looked down upon Creation simultaneously with God.

I sensed it with an overpowering premonition and intensity of feeling. At such times I knew I was worthy of myself, that I was my true self. As soon as I was alone, I could pass over to this state. I therefore sought the peace and solitude of this "Other," personality No. 2.

The play and counter play between personalities No.1 and No.2, which has run through my whole life, has nothing to do with a split or dissociation in the ordinary medical sense. On the contrary, it is played out in every individual... But he is only perceived by the very few. Most people's conscious understanding is not sufficient to realize he is also what they are. " - Memories, Dreams, and Reflections



Seems accurate in describing why INTPs can appear awkward but deep down know who they are, which surprises people who thought they were timid. An unrealized compensatory method keeping opposites in balance.

And it describes the plight of the introvert, describes why the introverts can often be happiest by themselves, in nature, and have reflective insights.
I can identify with this. Very often I act insecure, needy, and weak just to make people around me feel better about themselves, or to open up. It just happens spontaneously, without any pre-planning or conscious expectation of a result. But sometimes I get trapped into it for no good reason. There are times when it works favorably when someone sees me acting insecure, awkward and jumps in to adjust everything on their own without taking advantage of it. I guess its a natural screening process to find out who can be trusted and who not.
 

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I can identify with this. Very often I act insecure, needy, and weak just to make people around me feel better about themselves, or to open up. It just happens spontaneously, without any pre-planning or conscious expectation of a result. But sometimes I get trapped into it for no good reason. There are times when it works favorably when someone sees me acting insecure, awkward and jumps in to adjust everything on their own without taking advantage of it. I guess its a natural screening process to find out who can be trusted and who not.
Same but for me it's not a screening process. It is my way of flexing Fe to have people feel comfortable around me.
 

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Same but for me it's not a screening process. It is my way of flexing Fe to have people feel comfortable around me.
I guess thats a better way to put it. Like I said, I don't do it consciously, but when something good comes out of it, I know that even if I act awkward it won't drive people away.
 

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I take very seriously the idea of the human unconscious. And that only the unification of the conscious and unconscious can give us access to ourselves in naked reality. Then we can begin to live as we are, and not be governed by what lies just beneath the surface. Jung had a keener sense of this than anybody, and all of his works reflect that central theme, that the whole is the sum of its parts, but we are very unfamiliar with some of the darker corners of our minds, and their 'parts'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Nietzsche said it best:
What does he mean by "God"?
The social belief of a man on a throne who wants people to go to church and not question anything?

Jung criticized that social norm for the same reason as Neitsche: he is also a Thinker and he can't believe things that ban thought.
Jung's theory is a delicate and pro-thinker playground, the psyche as the bridge to a secret, interpersonal God.

Interesting how two people saw the same problem and reach different conclusions.
 

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What does he mean by "God"?
The social belief of a man on a throne who wants people to go to church and not question anything?
This sums it up. People want to feel as if they have all the answers, and if not, they want to input things in with little to no provocation even if the answer is unlikely. Which I have no problem with inherently, it's just when people enforce it on others as the 'one and only truth', or 'there will be consequences if you do not believe like I do' argument.

Of course, I also agree with Jung's theory upon the psyche and how it relates more to INTPs as god being an 'inner construct' of duality and ego. That 'god' is you, as it is everything and everyone else. That we are our own gods and once we can connect with ourselves internally, we can make this world better externally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This sums it up. People want to feel as if they have all the answers, and if not, they want to input things in with little to no provocation even if the answer is unlikely. Which I have no problem with inherently, it's just when people enforce it on others as the 'one and only truth', or 'there will be consequences if you do not believe like I do' argument.

Of course, I also agree with Jung's theory upon the psyche and how it relates more to INTPs as god being an 'inner construct' of duality and ego. That 'god' is you, as it is everything and everyone else. That we are our own gods and once we can connect with ourselves internally, we can make this world better externally.

A lot of the occult religions like Thelema, "satanic" sects, and Gnosticism denominations also teach the conclusion Jung did, that people are houses of God, or God is inside them. Words kind of fail to precisely describe it. It's not an ego declaration that "I am my own God." But a lot of people misunderstand it and think it does mean people are gods, even though it doesn't.
The people who misunderstand seem to label those alternative religions as anti-God and Devil worship.

Actually recognizing God in yourseld can be the purest form of relationship with God and elevate your moral platform to a higher level, where you are more Christlan than people who call themselves Christians.
People who recognize personality No.2, an interpersonal relationship with God, value god given liberties and laws come from within, not from externalized rules and regulations.
Like Jung said, the whole is only as strong as its individuals.

People who need written laws in order to do the right thing, which means relying on community to do the thinking for them, and value church to fill that desire for a community, are truly the potentially dangerous ones.

I think Atheists might agree with the morals coming from the internal, but like Jung said, most people don't recgonize that source is the source of all things, personality No.2.

My INFP always sees murder shows and says "but they were good people; they went to church!" And I always say "That means they may be worse. They are lacking internally and seek to fill it from people and places." He just doesn't listen and says church means people want to be good. That's Fi, I guess.
 

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A lot of the occult religions like Thelema, "satanic" sects, and Gnosticism denominations also teach the conclusion Jung did, that people are houses of God, or God is inside them. Words kind of fail to precisely describe it. It's not an ego declaration that "I am my own God." But a lot of people misunderstand it and think it does mean people are gods, even though it doesn't.
The people who misunderstand seem to label those alternative religions as anti-God and Devil worship.

Actually recognizing God in yourseld can be the purest form of relationship with God and elevate your moral platform to a higher level, where you are more Christlan than people who call themselves Christians.
People who recognize personality No.2, an interpersonal relationship with God, value god given liberties and laws come from within, not from externalized rules and regulations.
Like Jung said, the whole is only as strong as its individuals.

People who need written laws in order to do the right thing, which means relying on community to do the thinking for them, and value church to fill that desire for a community, are truly the potentially dangerous ones.

I think Atheists might agree with the morals coming from the internal, but like Jung said, most people don't recgonize that source is the source of all things, personality No.2.

My INFP always sees murder shows and says "but they were good people; they went to church!" And I always say "That means they may be worse. They are lacking internally and seek to fill it from people and places." He just doesn't listen and says church means people want to be good. That's Fi, I guess.
I agree, in the context of 'ego' I meant of the psychological term that relates to the psyche and contrasts against the 'super ego / id' in the system created by Freud.
 

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I know Jung often gets typed as INTP, but when I read that quoted book (though it was a long time ago prior to knowing that much about the MBTI) I noticed more similarities between him and my INFJ friend than myself and him. I even recommended the book to her. I didn't get Jung's spirituality at all. I also think that the quote may be more about those aspects of personality enneagram describes in some ways better than MBTI.
 
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