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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes i know there have been many threads on this and i've read most of them.

Since the spring came and summer is close i've been feeling much more alive than during the autumn/winter.Seems that during autumn/winter i get into the Ti-Ni loop and was wondering if the same goes for most of you ISTPs?

^ that's the question , the next part is irrelevant (some details why i'm asking this question)
 
So this Dom - Ter loop is a thing that constantly happens from time to time and i usually enjoy it because what i'm doing needs more viewpoints(Ni) and it doesn't need Se.It helps a lot but the thing is since i met a certain person one of the subjects we talked about was each others past.I realised that i don't remember much of it and usually what i remember is the bad part(so i can use it as experience) but all of a sudden without my permission brain started remember and so many bad memories just araised from the ashes and i couldn't stop myself thinking about them which was really annoying.I started over-analyzing myself , self-doubting and every possible bullshit i could think of why i'm like this etc..That was during the autumn/winter period the moment spring hit and sunny days came i stopped over-analyzing myself also some friends told me i started wearing more colours which kinda led to this question.Tho i'm still stuck in this loop but now it's a problem i can't repair which is annoying as fuck.



 

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whenever i'm bored, and nothing else comes into mind, the Ti-Ni loop springs up sooner or later, which can be very annoying. Sometimes i get very enriching perspectives when i think of ideas.

such as how i want to design a possible future wallet. Design, certain pockets, how big it should be, whether i should attatch it to an article of clothing. new ideas come springing out of my head like crazy, and there are times where i could digress from my point.

Or how to make a wallet out of playing cards in such a way as when you fold them out, it'll show the stuff you put in there, and then you can fold it back in to a stack. Even now i'm still processing how one could work that.

Imagine working with software like Autocad, or google sketch, or just any Computer Aided Design software. My mind is basically working like the Layout of that software and looking to see if it'll work in all directions.

but when i think about people it's a whole other story. it's like I'm walking around in territory i have no qualifications to be in, because people are unpredictable, and i'm just making this stuff up by myself without any evidence.
I mean, i guess it could apply to ideas as well, but i think with People it's more shaky as well a risky. with ideas that involve just items, as long as you're not breaking anything expensive, i don't see what's the problem.
 

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Well you could have seasonal affective disorder from a lack of vitamin D in the fall/winter months. Winter can be depressing if you don't play any winter sports because you are just cooped up inside for months at a time.
I think seasonal depression could be the same as a Ti Ni loop because maybe that is just how in manifests in the ISTP type.

I do tend to feel more sad and frustrated in the winter. When I was in school I was always so motivated in September and completely fed up by January lol. I suspect the weather was part of the reason for it.

I read an article once that said depression is beneficial from an evolutionary perspective because it forces someone to sit down, analyze and solve a problem. I have come to think of Ti Ni loops in the same way. Nietzsche talked about looking into an abyss and having the abyss look back into you. That is how I see Ti Ni loops and depression in general. You could get lost in the abyss and be taken over by it but if you get out you are stronger and wiser. People who never find themselves in a state of depression never really grow or mature in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@InsertCreativeNameHere
Yeah , i totally understand what you mean with the software.I'm kinda in that situation where i make certain stuff and need to think on how to build it.
This part
"I mean, i guess it could apply to ideas as well, but i think with People it's more shaky as well a risky. with ideas that involve just items, as long as you're not breaking anything expensive, i don't see what's the problem."
Yep i feel like it's just too risky, especially if you don't see that person everyday and you know she/he can easily vanish.I like taking and pushing the boundries when i know that person is stuck with me and can't do anything.The current Ti-Ni loop exists because i broke something expensive and it's almost imposible to fix but i'll try something and see how it goes.
@Huginn
So i've looked up into SAD and i can definitly agree with all the symptoms "difficulty concentrating on or completing tasks, withdrawal from friends, family, and social activities, and decreased sex drive" especially the last one.
And yeah i definitly agree after looking at the "abyss" and getting out makes you more mature and i always felt that i didn't fit with most of my peers.
I do tend to feel more sad and frustrated in the winter. When I was in school I was always so motivated in September and completely fed up by January lol. I suspect the weather was part of the reason for it.
Yep i know the feeling.
Well i don't usually like asking for help but thanks for the answers.
 

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whenever i'm bored, and nothing else comes into mind, the Ti-Ni loop springs up sooner or later, which can be very annoying. Sometimes i get very enriching perspectives when i think of ideas.

such as how i want to design a possible future wallet. Design, certain pockets, how big it should be, whether i should attatch it to an article of clothing. new ideas come springing out of my head like crazy, and there are times where i could digress from my point.

Or how to make a wallet out of playing cards in such a way as when you fold them out, it'll show the stuff you put in there, and then you can fold it back in to a stack. Even now i'm still processing how one could work that.

Imagine working with software like Autocad, or google sketch, or just any Computer Aided Design software. My mind is basically working like the Layout of that software and looking to see if it'll work in all directions.

but when i think about people it's a whole other story. it's like I'm walking around in territory i have no qualifications to be in, because people are unpredictable, and i'm just making this stuff up by myself without any evidence.
I mean, i guess it could apply to ideas as well, but i think with People it's more shaky as well a risky. with ideas that involve just items, as long as you're not breaking anything expensive, i don't see what's the problem.
I love google sketchup. Whenever I get bored I'll go on there and model things, and once you get good it's impressive how quickly you can make things.
 

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Ti + Ni... thought about it A LOT. Here's what i've got:
When you use Se with Ti you know exactly what you used to form your logical conclusions (what data it spawned from), you could do it again and even apply that knowledge to another similar concrete circumstances if the conclusions are good enough. When you use Ni with Ti there's an "a ha" moment, but as it is tertiary i find that often times it doesn't feel like a complete or useful "a ha", for example something might make you go like "oh wait, this moment right know... what happenned here? How did it get to this point? What does it mean?" and you'll start daydreaming and theorizing like crazy and any conclusions you draw on that intuition will probably be left out after you've come back to your senses, because that was nonsense. Ni could also be used when you are planning, when i plan i always have a mental imagery of what's gonna happen in the situation i'm planning for, and that image is a blurry, general scenario built unconsciously, based on similar experiences (it's nothing i've never seen before)... it's unclear and generic... and that's okay if i just plan simple and necessary things (leaving the details to be dealt with spontaneously) and don't get stuck to any expectations, but it could also make me see the actual situation based on what i've imagined and what i believe it to mean instead of what is really going on when i get there, i could also have some idea that something bad is gonna happen and then be psychologically defeated even before doing whatever it is beacause i let myself stick to it. There are good sides of Ni in the tertiary but everytime i try to outline them neatly i overuse Ni... ironic.
The next function i'm out to understand in my stack is Fe, its days of being undefined are counted muahahahaha.
 

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When you use Ni with Ti there's an "a ha" moment, but as it is tertiary i find that often times it doesn't feel like a complete or useful "a ha", for example something might make you go like "oh wait, this moment right know...
Where did all you newbies get this bull**** from? Ni isn't "aha" moments.

This is chapter 10 of Psychological types, written by Carl Jung, the guy who first theorised the existence of cognitive functions. It describes a Ni dominant in a general way.
Psychological Types - Wikisocion
 

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Where did all you newbies get this bull**** from? Ni isn't "aha" moments.

This is chapter 10 of Psychological types, written by Carl Jung, the guy who first theorised the existence of cognitive functions. It describes a Ni dominant in a general way.
Psychological Types - Wikisocion
Don't take it so literally. Do you know how hard it is for Ti doms to put how they understand things into words in a way that others can see their exact perspective?

It's hard.

Besides, If you haven't learned by now that the way a ni dom uses Ni compared to a Ni tertiary is quite different, you should go back and read the texts a little more.

Jung didn't elaborate on exactly how a Ti type uses Ni at all. He only very briefly touched upon auxiliary functions, let alone tertiary.
his texts about each type only describes the dominate types. His texts on Se doms describe ESTPs and ESFPs alone, same goes for the Te types describing ENTJs and ESTJs alone. He did not elaborate, but instead defined them as being "extreme" versions of the archetype that rarely ever happen in real humans.

The only way he touched upon how a ti type uses their Tertiary function was rather indirect and without clear examples pertaining to the exact functions.


Moving on.

The way I experience Ni is hard to even put to words. It's like i perceive an item, or some data or a feeling or an idea, and instantly or rather quickly create a "whole" with it in a usually future oriented context. What it may mean in the future, what it means in the past all in one big bubble. with that the predictions come and i kind of get visions of how things would be in that very isolated context.

Its so difficult for me to describe.
 

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Where did all you newbies get this bull**** from? Ni isn't "aha" moments.

This is chapter 10 of Psychological types, written by Carl Jung, the guy who first theorised the existence of cognitive functions. It describes a Ni dominant in a general way.
Psychological Types - Wikisocion
So, did you just read "a ha" and dropped the rest of the explanation? For that first example it feels like it would be an "a ha" moment, i see a situation and try to link some theory to it as if there would be a plot twist where i finally understand everything but they always end up as useless. And i'm not describing Ni, i'm describing Ti + Ni with the latter in the tertiary. At this point i think i don't need to say Jung's description is great and all but i'm not talking about Ni dominance.
 

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So, did you just read "a ha" and dropped the rest of the explanation? For that first example it feels like it would be an "a ha" moment, i see a situation and try to link some theory to it as if there would be a plot twist where i finally understand everything but they always end up as useless. And i'm not describing Ni, i'm describing Ti + Ni with the latter in the tertiary. At this point i think i don't need to say Jung's description is great and all but i'm not talking about Ni dominance.
"aha moments" being Ni is something I see repeated a heck of a lot by newbies, and it's bizarre because Ni has nothing to do with such things. Ni is subconscious in strong Se types. Experiencing it in conscious thought would be stressful, to say the least. Hence why I recommend Jung. If everyone read his descriptions, this would be a lot more common knowledge.

Plus, reading an accurate description of an extreme Ni-dominant would help to understand Tertiary Ni.
 

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"aha moments" being Ni is something I see repeated a heck of a lot by newbies, and it's bizarre because Ni has nothing to do with such things. Ni is subconscious in strong Se types. Experiencing it in conscious thought would be stressful, to say the least. Hence why I recommend Jung. If everyone read his descriptions, this would be a lot more common knowledge.

Plus, reading an accurate description of an extreme Ni-dominant would help to understand Tertiary Ni.
Any reason you have your Jungian Type as Ti but are listed as an INTJ on this website?
 

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"aha moments" being Ni is something I see repeated a heck of a lot by newbies, and it's bizarre because Ni has nothing to do with such things. Ni is subconscious in strong Se types. Experiencing it in conscious thought would be stressful, to say the least. Hence why I recommend Jung. If everyone read his descriptions, this would be a lot more common knowledge.

Plus, reading an accurate description of an extreme Ni-dominant would help to understand Tertiary Ni.
"Being stressful" makes a lot of sense, that's what the Dom-Ter Loop thing is about, cognitive imbalance. Here is a link i know about the subject if you're not familiar with it: Socionics - the16types.info - MBTI: Tertiary Temptation (yay for interforum connections). I can see the base of Jung's description of Ni working when i experience this indulgences in introverted attitude, which is why i categorize it as being Ti + Ni but it's hard to tell which is what so i'd rather describe the combo (that i've learned to identify) than try to outline them separately and their interaction (which i've tried, A LOT, but it didn't grow fruits). I think that sharing it as i can see it in my life is the best contribution i can make, the best i can see it the better i can explain it.

but it could also make me see the actual situation based on what i've imagined and what i believe it to mean instead of what is really going on when i get there
This is seeing the internal perception instead of the objective world (mixed up with my subjective thinking being applied to something already subjective), which is unhealthy for me. I do think it would be good for everyone to read the first descriptions, but it felt like you were forcing that description in the situation i was presenting, which had a more specific focus that wouldn't be fulfilled only with that side of the combo.
 
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