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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi!
I'm new to socionics, so sorry if something seems to be extremely stupid.

I found this link:
Socionics - the16types.info - Type and subtype descriptions by Meged and Ovch

It says that an ESTj (Te-Si-Ne-Fi) is divided in ESTj Si and ESTj Te. Wouldn't the sub category with Si result in ISTp? (that is MBTI ISTJ, right? Anaways, Si-Te-Fi-Ne.)

I just can't make any sense out of this, would be great with some help!
 
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It says that an ESTj (Te-Si-Ne-Fi) is divided in ESTj Si and ESTj Te. Wouldn't the sub category with Si result in ISTp?
No, because ESTj and ISTp do not differ in their dominant function alone. Every sociotype has a distinct placement of all 8 cognitive functions, each of which fulfill a certain role. This is much stricter in Socionics than in MBTI. So an ESTj-Si is just a little more Si-heavy, and may be mistaken as an ISTp by an untrained observer or even themselves, but otherwise has their functions arranged just like an ESTj-Te, not an ISTp.

(that is MBTI ISTJ, right? Anaways, Si-Te-Fi-Ne.)
Yes, ISTp equals ISTJ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No, because ESTj and ISTp do not differ in their dominant function alone. Every sociotype has a distinct placement of all 8 cognitive functions, each of which fulfill a certain role. This is much stricter in Socionics than in MBTI. So an ESTj-Si is just a little more Si-heavy, and may be mistaken as an ISTp by an untrained observer or even themselves, but otherwise has their functions arranged just like an ESTj-Te, not an ISTp.
I see, thanks! So an ESTj-Si has Si stronger than Te? Or is it just stronger than usual?
 

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Distinction has been made basically in order to better explain differences between people within the same type. Those who seem more active and the other ones who seem more passive. So, people with leading subtype experience excitation of their inert functions, and people with creative subtype experience excitation of their contact functions.

For LSE it would be:
LSE-Te (ESTj) leading sybtype emphasizes information that pertains to ignoring, activating and vulnerable - Te, Ti, Ne, Ni.
LSE-Si (ESTj) creative sybtype emphasizes information that pertains to demonstrative, role and suggestive - Si, Se, Fe, Fi.

They mess up something here though I think, as they tell that inert subtype would be closer to melancholic and phlegmatic temperaments, while contact subtype would be closer to sanguine and choleric ones. While it's more likely that LSE-Si (contact) will seem more mellow and passive than the LSE-Te (inert) simply because of the nature of the elements which are disinhibited. Of course LSE-Si will have a badass Se boosted, but it's still very deep in the Id block and I doubt they'll be able to use it about as good as Se ego types.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Distinction has been made basically in order to better explain differences between people within the same type. Those who seem more active and the other ones who seem more passive. So, people with leading subtype experience excitation of their inert functions, and people with creative subtype experience excitation of their contact functions.

For LSE it would be:
LSE-Te (ESTj) leading sybtype emphasizes information that pertains to ignoring, activating and vulnerable - Te, Ti, Ne, Ni.
LSE-Si (ESTj) creative sybtype emphasizes information that pertains to demonstrative, role and suggestive - Si, Se, Fe, Fi.

They mess up something here though I think, as they tell that inert subtype would be closer to melancholic and phlegmatic temperaments, while contact subtype would be closer to sanguine and choleric ones. While it's more likely that LSE-Si (contact) will seem more mellow and passive than the LSE-Te (inert) simply because of the nature of the elements which are disinhibited. Of course LSE-Si will have a badass Se boosted, but it's still very deep in the Id block and I doubt they'll be able to use it about as good as Se ego types.
Thank you, great description! I think I'm starting to grasp it now.
I really shoul read up on socionics.
Why is there just two sub-types? What about an LSE with a higher Ne than it "should" be. Does that fall under LSE-Te? And then with stronger Fi under LSE-Si?
(what is Se-ego types?)
(Id block is second function, right?)
 
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Thank you, great description! I think I'm starting to grasp it now.
I really shoul read up on socionics.
Why is there just two sub-types? What about an LSE with a higher Ne than it "should" be. Does that fall under LSE-Te? And then with stronger Fi under LSE-Si?
(what is Se-ego types?)
(Id block is second function, right?)
Yep. LSE with boosted Ne is LSE-Te and LSE with boosted Fi is LSE-Si.
According to this theory all elements in corresponding vertical block become boosted.

LSE's Model A:
Ego: Te Si (valued)
Super-Ego: Ni Fe (unvalued/subdued)
Super-Id: Ne Fi (valued)
Id: Ti Se (unvalued/subdued)

All the first elements in the vertical line above are considered to be inert ones (Te, Ni, Ne, Ti) and are boosted along with Te subtype, all the last elements in the vertical line above are considered to be contact ones (Si, Fe, Fi, Se) and are boosted along with Si subtype. It's based on basic Jung's premises as well about how thinking suppresses feeling and sensing suppresses intuition, so the more one of them is dominant, the more the other part is suppressed.

Se egos are types who have Se as their leading/base/dominant function or as their creative/auxiliary function. They are named so because base+creative comprise ego block.

Id block is the deepest layer of the psyche. These are ignoring and demonstrative functions. For LSE these ones would be Ti and Se respectively.

More about Model A here - Socionics Model A.
 
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