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Dominant-Tertiary Loops and Common Personality Disorders

283078 Views 380 Replies 137 Participants Last post by  Lunacik, 
simulatedworld
Dominant-Tertiary Loops and Common Personality Disorders​


People often ask, why can't my top two functions both be introverted (or extroverted)? The answer is that they can, but that this invariably causes personality imbalance/disorders, and if this is the case for you, you may not be the type you think you are.

Lately I've been noticing that a lot of typological mistakes and misreads are the result of a couple of incorrect assumptions about functional structure. I'd like to dedicate this article to describing the phenomenon known as Dominant-Tertiary Loops, where the natural secondary function is suppressed, poorly developed or otherwise not valued as highly by the individual's ego as the tertiary function.

First let's remember that the standard function arrangements of the 16 types merely represent the ideal balances for each of sixteen different ways to conceptualize ourselves and reality. In reality, they don't always show up in exactly that order of emphasis. Let's look at an example:

To start with I'll use my own type, ENTP. Here's our functional breakdown:
Dominant Ne
Secondary Ti
Tertiary Fe
Inferior Si

But what happens if Ti is poorly developed? This most commonly happens because the tertiary function's common directional orientation with the dominant can make it seem more comfortable than the secondary! Our perception (obviously) relies on Ne, but with Ti not doing its job, we're forced to relinquish judgment to the tertiary (and less able) Fe.

We end up with Ne+Fe as the most dominant attitudes. If you don't see why this is a problem, consider the significance of intro/extroversion:

Extroverted attitudes attempt to make the inner self more like the outer world's objective ideal.
Introverted attitudes attempt to make the outer world more like the inner self's subjective ideal.
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A balanced psyche requires significant influence from both internal and external stimuli--too much introversion and we retreat entirely into ourselves and ignore all outer world influence to an unhealthy degree; too much extroversion and we are not able to remain in touch with what is important to our subjective internal selves, and become far too dependent upon external conditions and attitudes of others.

All too commonly I see people make the mistake of assuming that using T more than F automatically makes an xxTx type. In a healthy, balanced individual that's true, but when an ego becomes more dependent on the tertiary than the secondary, that's no longer the case.

For instance, I once mistook an INFJ for INTJ because he had poor secondary Fe and relied primarily on Ni+Ti. At the time I used only MBTI sliding scales and didn't know functions yet, so since I saw primarily N and T I figured he would be an NT type. To the casual observer he would appear to be using N over S, and T over F, so he must be an NT type, right? Wrong! He is not an NT type unless his iNtuition and Thinking are oriented in opposite directions.

One really interesting result of this confusion is that each dom-tert loop type starts to look very similar to the dom-tert loop form of the type sharing only its first letter! For example:

INTJ: Ni (Te) Fi Se

ISFP: Fi (Se) Ni Te

This is exactly why many unbalanced personalities have difficulty fitting themselves into a single Jungian archetype. Unsurprisingly, if the INTJ above would improve his Te, and the ISFP would improve his Se, each would balance out the monopoly introverted attitudes currently have on his perspective and lead himself to much greater personal balance and contentment.

For example: A certain user on typologycentral agonized over her type for months, creating numerous long threads and repeatedly changing her mind. My initial impression was ENFP, which I shared but which she promptly rejected. After reading about function attitudes she described Te and Ne as her most prominent functions--at this point I changed my guess to ESTJ, which may seem like a bizarre jump if you don't understand dom/tert loop functions, but it's really not:

ENFP: Ne (Fi) Te Si

ESTJ: Te (Si) Ne Fi

So if you pick up mainly Ne and Te in someone, don't presume that he's an NT type--in fact, he's probably not. Depending on which is dominant, he is most likely either ENFP (Ne+Te with poor Fi) or ESTJ (Te+Ne with poor Si).

Ironically, this user's primary personality imbalance was poorly developed secondary Fi--it turned out she actually was an ENFP providing a perfect example of over-dependence on extroverted attitudes. She reported placing far too much emphasis on the approval of others and couldn't introspect enough to figure out which type was really her. Without a strong introverted function she was left a poor sense of individual self, and showed it through her dependence on the opinions of others to determine her type. She was looking everywhere but the right place--inside.

So how does this over-dependence on introversion (or extroversion) manifest itself in each type? I believe this phenomenon is responsible for (or at least involved with) a lot of common personality disorders:


ENTP/ESFJ: Ne/Fe or Fe/Ne--Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This type often behaves impulsively and manipulatively, needing constant approval and admiration from others, running around investing in new thing after new thing but never developing the self-confidence of a strong subjective perspective. Fe used negatively may use its awareness of the cultural standards of others to intentionally offend or upset them, in order to service Ne's curiosity about the patterns in their responses. If Ti/Si were working properly, it would give the user a balancing sense of personal, subjective importance and free him of his dependence upon the adulation and unconditional acceptance of others. (Horrible example: Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.)


INTP/ISFJ: Ti/Si or Si/Ti--Schizotypal Personality Disorder. I see this most commonly in INTP dom/tert loops (Ti+Si), resulting in totally giving up on attempting to obtain the social/interpersonal connections that inferior Fe drives them to unconsciously desire. Schizotypal people are seen (and typically see themselves) as having such unusual thoughts and behaviors that widespread social acceptance is nearly impossible. Ti thinks, "I cannot find any logical explanation for social rituals" and Si reinforces this self-isolating, risk-averse behavior by constantly reminding the user: "Remember how badly this went last time you tried?" If Ne were doing its job, it would remind the user to continue experimenting to find a new approach. In the ISFJ version, Si becomes ultra risk-averse and refuses to try anything new or unfamiliar. If Fe were doing its job, the ISFJ would learn that some risk is necessary in order to uphold obligations to others and avoid living in total solitude. Deep down, these types really do want social connection and ritual (Fe), but have found themselves so poor at it that they simply give up trying.


ESTP/ENFJ: Se/Fe or Fe/Se--Histrionic Personality Disorder. This tends to manifest itself in terms of exaggerated, aggressive sexual behavior and physical impulsiveness. Since reflecting the outer world is the only thing that matters, whatever will shock, impress, or otherwise affect others enough to include the user in their social rituals is what has to be done. Real empathy is rare as this type requires constant thrills or conflict--in the ENFJ version, this often results in excessive sensitivity to perceived "rudeness" or failure to respect the user's preferred cultural custom (Fe), combined with tertiary Se responding aggressively through implied threats of brute force. (e.g., Vito Corleone: "I'll make him an offer he can't refuse"--gives a surface appearance of respecting the cultural standards of negotiation, but implies that refusal to accept this "offer" would be quite unpleasant for the recipient!) If Ti/Ni were doing its job, the user would find a sense of balance and comfortability with himself, granting him the ability to discover what is subjectively important to him, rather than constantly shifting with the tide of cultural and social trends.


ISTP/INFJ: Ti/Ni or Ni/Ti--Schizoid Personality Disorder. These types are socially incompetent for lack of trying, because they see little to no value in significant interaction with others. They live in their own abstract worlds, constantly second-guessing themselves as Ti poses a framework for a problem and Ni shoots it down as too definitionally precise. Without any real external input, these two functions will dream up all sorts of elaborate systems and implications for them, only to repeat their own self-defeating behavior, never bothering to emphasize putting any of its intense ideas into practice. Frequent disregard for rules, laws and other forms of behavioral standards is common, as no function provides any significant sense of external influence. If Se/Fe were doing its job, the user would recognize the value of connecting with others and of paying attention to their needs, preferences, habits and appearances.


ESFP/ENTJ: Se/Te or Te/Se--Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (not the same thing as OCD)! I've seen people mistake ESFPs in Se+Te dom-tert loops for ESTPs because they can be so insistent upon controlling their surroundings. These types epitomize enneagram type 8, as they are aggressive, blunt, confrontational and not the least bit afraid of hurting anyone's feelings. Inside they require the approval of others to a much higher degree than they let on, as Te insists on controlling and organizing external surroundings to ridiculous proportions, while Se pushes any naysayers out of the way with aggressive force and a take-no-prisoners attitude. Territorial and looking for any reason to display their power, these types are some of the most difficult to deal with of all dom-tert loops. If Fi/Ni were doing its job, these types would stop to consider that their actions have negative implications for others, and that aggressively taking charge is not always the best solution in every situation.


ISFP/INTJ: Fi/Ni or Ni/Fi--Paranoid Personality Disorder. These types are your typical conspiracy theorists; they cling deeply to their personal values and can find a conspiracy to assault or attack those values everywhere they look. Chronically distrustful of others' intentions for no legitimate reason, these types are certain they are the only ones who really know "the truth." The inferior function, Te or Se, can sometimes lead to an unconscious desire to attract the attention of or lead/organize others in efforts to expose the nefarious conspiracies they invariably see everywhere. If Te/Se were doing its job, these types would be able to look around them and observe empirical evidence that most of their theories are probably not reflected in reality, but as they rely almost entirely on internal validation, Ni will go to any lengths to justify Fi's emotion-based suspicions. (I mentioned Dale Gribble from King of the Hill in a previous article--he's a perfect example.) There's also this guy Victor on typologycentral who's such a perfect example of this it's absolutely ridiculous. ;)


ENFP/ESTJ: Ne/Te or Te/Ne--Borderline Personality Disorder. The ENFP I described above may have been one of these types. They simultaneously desire to control and dazzle others with their extraordinary leadership and grandiose performances. For the ENFP, this tends to take the form of insisting on consistent, scheduled attention from others for his/her artistic or creative gifts, while for the ESTJ it tends to manifest itself in terms of indignation when others refuse to follow every detail of the user's "visionary" leadership style. This combination, ironically, makes the user extremely dependent upon others for meaning, never really finding a sense of internal balance, no matter how hard he works to create and delegate. While Te leads these types to desire structure and discipline, Ne continually contradicts it by insisting on impulsive displays of creative freedom. Often self-denigrating over the inability to control Ne's impulsive explorations, Te will go to any lengths to keep the user in a position of power and influence, where others must defer to his authority. If Fi/Si were doing its job, these types would recognize that what they're looking for cannot be found outside themselves--they must learn to sometimes live for themselves and only themselves, and forget about external results for a moment.


INFP/ISTJ: Fi/Si or Si/Fi--Avoidant Personality Disorder. Often scarred by some intensely negative past experience with opening up too many of their private emotions, this type compulsively avoids social situations and interaction with others. They are fiercely sensitive and may exaggerate or misconstrue perceived negative emotional intent in the words or actions of others. They will sometimes project their negative feelings onto others (Fi), as Si tells them that if I were to behave this way, I would have to be very upset, so anyone who behaves that way must also be. These types often have a chronic problem with trusting the intentions or motivations of others, refusing to share private information with even their closest friends and family. They are so deeply sensitive that they refuse to risk being hurt by attempting deep connections with others--you'll see this a lot in ISTJs with Asperger's. If Ne/Te were doing its job, these types would maintain a heathy grip on the importance of letting go of the past and trying something new in the name of accomplishing a greater goal, but some of these remain total recluses for most (if not all) of their lives.

^Side note on the above: I believe this is the case for the currently banned user JTG1984, as he consistently describes his strongest functions as Si and Fi. He identified as ISFJ, but I believe he simply assumed that using more F than T must make him an F type, which it doesn't. He displays little to no Fe, and thus is probably not an FJ type. He seems most likely to be an ISTJ dom-tert loop, Si+Fi.


I guess that about covers it for today. If anyone wants to share their experiences with any of these or suggest a different personality disorder to associate with any group, knock yourselves out.

Until next time,
SW
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MensSuperMateriam
Again, an excellent post, SW. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Only some names of the disorders does not match with the idea I have about them, but I prefer to reread its descriptions before commenting this.

I would like to comment two cases IRL: my mother, who I previously typed as ISTJ, and my brother, ESTJ.
Both of them are control freaks, my mother about objects (cleaner maniac) and my brother about people (if you don't do what I say, then you're bad, you're lazy, etc, etc, etc). The last also has no respect for other's feelings, he give a shit because "he has right" (in his mind, obviously). I do not remeber any of them recognizing mistakes...

Should I consider ESFP/ENTJ for my mother and maybe also my brother? Although what you said about ESTJ also matches, the difference between this two cases are a bit diffuse.
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simulatedworld said:
I dunno, what evidence of which functions do you see in them?
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Mother: Need order in the objects in the outside world. Not very intuitive, immediate reality. Vivid memory for past experinces, but very bad for concepts (more when abstracts)=Si. Unwilling to consider others' emotions, especially when in a bad mood: victimhood (Fi?). Dislike absolutemy mi "independent reasoning style" (Ti), for her, majority opinions are right. As I see her introverted: Si+Te+Fi=ISTJ.

Brother. He's always right; he do things in correct way (not moral, functional way) = Te. His opinions are very important, others' opinions and feelings are void = Fi. Everybody should do things in his way (also Te). As I see him more concret than abstract --> Si. But I'm not very sure in this point. Clearly extroverted. Conclusion: ESTJ or ENTJ.
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Nyx said:
But would someone actually have one of those personality disorders if they just need to develop their secondary function? Most people would just have weaker forms of those disorders, right?...or...stupid questions lol
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Well it depends of how easy people can correct their bad tendences. While these behaviors imply problems in life, they will be disorders, or I believe this is the formal definition of it.

In my personal case, I can say that yes, I sometimes suffer from TiSi loops. But not really for being introvert and feeling better "alone". What uses to catalyse my bad mental state is not shyness, but bad emotional experientes. Feeling forced to live by Te rules (parents, bosses, and life in general) is what really make me sick, and sometimes I disconnect hoping that a sort of nuke destroy all :tongue:

Finding anything intersting, stimulating to do (Ne) is what logically reactivates my good mental state. I suppose that more or less, the same for everybody: reactivating properly the aux function, all come to be well again.
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unleashthehounds said:
Can an INTP get stuck in an Ne-Fe loop?
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Describe how that loop would be.
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unleashthehounds said:
I've been in a rather extraverted phase for the past year or so. My Ne is active as always, but lately it seems like my Fe is emerging. I've been less reliant on Ti and Si. I've been wanting more attention than is typical for me.
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Well, that does not sound like a "Loop". Maybe you simply felt youself in a comfortable extroverted way. Think ENTP's are NeTi and as extroverted they show frequently the behavior you described. Maybe simple you were in a Ne>Ti mental state.

For being a real Loop, it should be negative state corrupting your mind, ie, you get worse and worse, less capable of acting properly, with less control of yourself and your surroundings, util you leave it. Your extroverted state does not sound like this.
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Marco Antonio said:
Why did you choose tertiary loop? how did you come to the conclusion that this loop is associated with common personality disorders?. How could dominant act directly with tertiary?
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The dom/ter loops are not an invention of the thread creator. I knew them before joining this forum. For example, a lot of Inet descriptions about my type, INTP, comments about our trend to TiSi loops, which I can describe to you (because I knew it very well).

INTP working well: TiNe. Ne provides new information; Ti analizes it internally. Being Ti internal, outside world is irrelevant when judging; it needs fixed concepts (while judging).
New concept=chair. New concept=table. After fixed, I can evaluate: is a chair equal to a table? I get the conclusion: NO.
If you use Si instead Ne, you can invoke the same concepts, but you will get the same answer. More or less, TiSi is an unuseful process. If you fall in it trying to resolve a problem, probably you will get nothing, so there is a loop (you seach answers in a process that offers nothing; you search again and again...). In order to get new answers, you need new concepts (or new variations of the concepts): Ne.

What the autor seems to have added is the association of these loops with concrete disorders, which can be discussed more or less.


Marco Antonio said:
The main issue here is they seem confused whether they are Feelers or Thinkers because they can hardy make a judgment... they use most of their time to gather information.
...wait a second J's that have no judgment...hmmm??
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You assume that J's make more judgements than P's, which is an error. P's also make judgements, but internally (Ji).

INTJ: Ni is an internal source of information; it doesn't need to be contrasted with external world as Ne for being "true" (in an NJ mind). Also, NiFi is not a loop without judgement, because it uses Fi, which being also internal, does not need to be contrasted. NiFi is a loop in which the anwer is always what the user want to.
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Marco Antonio said:
I believe Si in INTPs works as an auxiliary of Ne, it gives Ti an extra perception of consistency to stabilize the angles from where to adhere it's logical frameworks.

So in INTPs Ti conceives what perception of Ne is most useful for it's framework to be logically consistent. What Si contributes to this process is an observation of how previous experience with certain approaches to logical systems have worked successfully.
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Nobody is saying that every time an INTP uses Si, it implies a dom/ter loops. Of course ter functions have their utility, also inferior functions, for every type. That's evident.
We're speaking about dom/ter loops, with aux function too weakened over a long period of time, damaging cognitive processes, causing problems to the user. In this way they're described.


Marco Antonio said:
Part of the process could derive from your own bias as an INTP, understanding or believing that things as how they are, aren't exact enough. No previous experience could describe this, or could it? then the quest begins for ultimate understanding. When you start having problems with getting new answers, i would rather interpret this as you developing more your Si.
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Hahaha. It's really funny when a blind accuses to an one-eyed for being unable to see. In this case, you're clearly showing your own bias, but you're unaware of this and more, you say I'm biased.

INTP's do not believe things are exactly as they think. Ne is a dynamic idea generator, and if it offers an idea, experience, etc that contradicts what previously we think, we change our concepts. We fix concept temporally for working with them, but being conscious that these concepts are only models. Every idea that a human being could have about reality is only a model, this is evident for every person with a minimun education in Philosophy and Science. We think in a sort of bayesian inference.

Maybe you have too much confidence in your Ni function, because it seems to me that you're in a NiFi loop and are unaware of this. Be careful. You're talking more or less as if everything could be interpreted in anyway, but what is more serious, nobody except you are able to see the "hidden truth". A classical example of NiFi loop. I can say that gravity is caused by the will of the Pink Unicorn. Nobody can prove the opposite...

Instead of seeking alternative explanations for an hypothesis which is well constructed and very logic, you should test it by experimentation. Remember your Te function?. Well, in this case, observation. Take a lot of people of known types, and talk to them about their bad "mental states". If they show a strong correlation between their types and the proposed dom/ter loops, then we can assume the hypothesis is true. If there is weak correlation, false. That's the way the scientific method works.

So don't offer to me weaker alternatives and say that they could be correct only because they could be imagined... prove them. That's simple, and easy. Use your Te, or you will remain in a NiFi loop... but well, if you like it, while you don't think I'm a reptilian and try to kill me, I'll be fine. Nobody is perfect. I forgive you.


Marco Antonio said:
I don't assume such a thing, assuming is rather a Ti verb :laughing:. i just pointed out how Ni-Si combo could not be called "xxxx" as in mbti typology because it goes against the theory itself.
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Oh no! The INTJ conversation game again! I don't like it! It's not funny!

You said
Marco Antonio said:
...wait a second J's that have no judgment...hmmm??
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What could be thought about this? You're saying that J's are types which must have judgements, as if P's could be without it. Now you say I'm assuming because I'm a Ti....

Every third person which read that sentence probably will think the same. You can't say now that it's my fault. A big virtue of Ti is we're able to express ideas properly and clearly, more when combined with Ne, and everybody easily understand what we want to say. No hidden meanings.

So, two options:
a) You're a bad conversationist, unable to make others understand you. Don't hope others will read your mind, the goal of a conversation is understand and being understood. I you don't want to be understood, better not to speak with others.
b) You're a mental cheater, something that INTJ's seem to love. You really wanted to say what it seems... and now are trying to convince me that not.

Anyway, the solution for this debate is simple. Test the hypotesis. That's all.
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SweetSurrender said:
You might care to take a guess that English is not that user's primary language and another guess that even though what he's saying might confuse you that does not imply anything more than that the relay of communication isn't functioning well for your needs.

His way of communicating reminded me more of an INTP than an INTJ.
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Unfixed, diffuse concepts and ideas = Ni. Fixed (while evaluating) concepts and search of logical consistency = Ti. Mutually incompatible. Not an INTP.
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Marco Antonio said:
There is no solution for debating when you see it as a discussion. There is only solution when you can see what can be gathered from it, and how it can be gathered, and why it should be gathered.
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Still using tricks...

I debate with people who act as equals. I refuse to debate with people who think they're by default right or nobody except themselves see the "truth". Also you try to convince me by twisting meanings, or using a sort of "authority argument" to invalidate my exposition, proposing than I'm biased when it's obvious that you are in a NiFi loop and don't realize about this. Later you deny your intentions...

But, of course, I should be wrong, you foresee my behavior (as you said), this words and almost my entire future. Maybe you should work as astrologer... still in a NiFi thinking you've (and only you) a sixth sense. Should I say again how ridiculous this is? Well, it is not my duty to get you out from your mental isolation.

Anyway, think what you want. Debating in this conditions is a waste of time. I agree with you in this.
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Marco Antonio said:
this twisting of meanings as you call it, Ni users call interpretation, it's like using Ti but never stopping at the most appealing leverage.
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A different interpretation is legitimate when it doesn't imply that your proposition will be always true. In such case, it's a fallacy. Again, some INTJ's seem to be pleased with these tricks. Fortunately, the majority are honest.

Marco Antonio said:
There is your most appealing leverage, sustaining this theory

i notice trends of how your behavior impregnated in your words is directed towards certain patterns of thinking and see how they could develop; a Ti ego defending itself will usually call for what is most logically "truth".
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Now you invoke the concept of mi "ego". So evebody except you, of course, has a biasing ego, which you clearly see. Wow, what a clairvoyant man. But of course your position is correct, well constructed...More tricks in your attempt of puppeteering.

You're not the first "cheater" I meet in the forum, so my experience, not an inexistent sixth sense, made me imagine what would happen. Just this. It's obvious who act as a deceiver. Any kind of conversation with you is wasted time. Better not to insist.
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Marco Antonio said:
One more thing, your fear of being puppeteered is probably related to inferior Fe, by believing that people could be naturally tricked and/or persuaded in a way that might not be so easily and evidently perceived from a certain leverage.
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How could I fear something that couldn't affect me? We're talking in a forum, this is not real life.

Well, I will comment this paragraph because it could be useful for you in the future in your interactons with Fe users. Yes, maybe my "problem" with you is Fe based, but not what you're thinking. It's always difficult to think in the terms or a too different function. As a Fi user, understanding Fe is not easy. The same for me, of course.

Fe as a "collective moral/ethics" wants everybody behave well (in the terms of consensus). My discrepancy with you was not because you have a different opinion/vision in the issue of the thread. If you observe meticulously, you'll see that this "discussion" started when you invoke "my bias". You could support your point of view perfectly without this. I still think this is a bad behavior; although it wasn't your goal, it could be used as a fallacy to invalidate what I'm saying. Maybe you'll disagree, and maybe I could be wrong in my opinion about you, but Fe users don't like these things. Don't try to invalidate this moral opinion with argumentation about if it's correct or not, because it's like debating about which color is more beautiful.

Being you a too different type, and not knowing you, I can't stimate your intentions, so if I think this is a bad behavior, I indicate it. The later chain reaction could be associated to a severe mutual misunderstanding, I recognize it.

After saying this, I think the best we can do is letting this go.
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Functianalyst said:
I can tell a person what function they may be using at the time, but this is a far cry from being able to type them. But even when noticing a particular function being used I can’t always be sure that is the function. When describing Ne types, Jung said:This coincides with Berens theory on look-a-like functions. Not only are Ne-Se, Fe-Te, Ti-Fi, Ni-Si used in the same way, they can all mimic and look-like other functions. Ne can look like Se or Fe, Se can look like Te or Ne, Ni can look like Si or Ti…. and so on. So it’s virtually impossible to determine someone’s type
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I have poor knowledge about the issue for debating with you but I want to point one aspect.

Although some functions can mimic others, as you said, more or less most people will tend to behave in the same way, ie, there is some observable trend of behavior, thinking processes. Maybe nobody can be absolutely sure about if the conclusions about others are correct, but it seems to me that most people, when typing others, do not want really to be absolutely sure. At least, in my personal case, the goal is recognizing some patters using an enough accurate model that allows to me to predict physical and mental behavior of the typed. Usable knowledge in my interactions with the typed (better when more accurate, of course). Obtaining a "functional type".

I can compare it with gravity models. Newtonian model is worse than Relativity, so it is "less true". But for most usual tasks, it works well.

Well, this is about typing others. About typing myself, all new information, teories, aspects, are welcome. Understanding myself is what made me to be here.
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simulatedworld said:
ENTJs are thinking about the same things I am, but approaching them in a way that seems completely backwards to me. It might be semantics, but I think approaching the same ideas completely differently constitutes more of a difference than approaching different ideas the same way. ^_^
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I suppose that phenomenon is really common (although not always noticed), because in my personal real life experiences I feel the same. My best friend is an INFP (or ISFP, he seems to have intuition but not as high as mine), and I empathize with him very easily, although we have different goals in life.

I have also known some ENTJ's (with very bad result) and at least one INTJ. The INTJ apparently has the same goals as me, and is really an "interesting mind" but I feel some kind of unbeatable barrier exists between us, as if it was impossible for me intuiting what she was really thinking (and aparently the same in opposite direction).

But, where are the INTP's in my country? They seem to be invisible... :laughing:
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unleashthehounds said:
I would guess he's probably not ISFP. ISFPs are as far from us functionally as possible. In my experience (and others on the board) they are not easy for our type to get along with let alone empathize with. You are probably right in your INFP guess.
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Maybe you're right. I stimated he is an INFP, but later he did an online test and scored 50% N(S) and he also says to me that he's not too intuitive.

I didn't suppose there would be too high differences because I know several ISTP's and they're not too different from me. Different, but also similar in some aspects. Maybe I know only the "most introverted version" of ISTP's?

So should I assume with your aseveration that ISFP's are too present-focused for being compatible with us, or something like this? If he is not an ISFP, as you said and I thought, I have no other real life reference about this type.
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unleashthehounds said:
ISTPs share 2 functions with us- the Ti + Fe in the same order
INFPs share 2 functions with us- the Ne + Si in the same order
ISFPs share nothing, their 4 functions are our shadows, in reverse!

It's hard to say exactly why I clash with the ISFP I know, it's like she does everything backwards in my mind, now I know why! lol

My best friend is INFP too, she doesn't seem to be as intuitive as me either. But yet there is a great familiarity there, we see things very similarly. Like you said, easy to empathize with.
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Being ISFP's "same-direction-oriented" (JiPe) I thought some little similarity they should have with INTP's, but of course you're right about having INFP two common functions and in the same order, they're a lot more similar. Anyway I think I know no ISFP in my life for comparing so all what I said about them is only speculation.
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