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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Dr. Gregory House: the definition of an INTJ

I know this have already been argued over and over again and I’m the 1928378127319th person to create a thread about this, but I really want to put together here all my insights (plus some things I read around) about INTJs and about Dr. House’s character.

He’s one of the easiest characters to type in television. It’s just impossible he’s not an INTJ. I see a lot of myself in House, from the shallow little traits to all his deepest struggles. In fact, watching the show was what recently made me become interested in psychology and Jungian/MBTI theories.

Before coming to these forums, I was just sure he’s a textbook INTJ. Then, I saw a lot of NTPs (specially, ENTPs) trying to claim him as one of their own only because they want to, which pisses me off. It really angers me.

There’s no way one would type House anything different than INTJ without being biased. People should stop doing it just because they love to have a cool guy as their same type. Is it too much to ask when I say I want people to always be objective and impartial?

If it was about another misunderstood INTJ (and there are a lot of them), I wouldn’t mind too much, but I have to talk about him. Well, the summary of my opinion is this: if you wanna really know about INTJs, go watch House M.D.

I’m not saying that one character can represent the whole depth of a personality type, but neither can any sort of description I see around. However, regarding to INTJs in fiction, he’s the one who gets the closest to it.


I’d like to say I hate the stereotypes I see in the INTJ descriptions. “The Scientists” is a very poor nickname to describe us. It should be given to some T-dominant type, maybe to the INTP or the ESTJ, but never the INTJ. I think it would be better for us something like “The Foreseers” or “The Visionaries”.

“Scientist” is a nickname that gives the impression we’re all computer programmed androids, completely detached from our emotions. INTJs don’t deal with everything like “This thought makes sense. It computes.”, “That idea does not have logical consistency. It does not compute.” or “My HP points are going down, I have to rest my body. Sleeping mode: activated.”.

Guess what, bitches? We’re not robots! In the INTJ’s function stack, Se is the one that is repressed, while Fi is only tertiary. People often forget the influence of the tertiary function in a type. Of course I do prefer thinking to feeling and of course I do value rational arguments over anything, but I can be quite in touch with my inner emotions most of the times.

The order of the functions is something very relevant. After all, that’s what makes us being introverts or extraverts. Don’t forget our dominant function is Ni, not Ti or Te. So, when we define the INTJ to the core, we should go through N traits, not T. Our Te is absolutely nothing more than an auxiliary tool, our sword-arm or something like that. I’m not a super logical, scientific and dispassionate person. I’m sure I’m very good at using logic when I have to, but my internal musings and ideas are what hold big importance to me.

It bothers me when I see INTJs are always portrayed either as socially awkward nerds or as completely dark villains. The stereotype should be something more like a wizard rather than a geek: a lonely individual (no matter how many friends, lonely) with an extremely intuitive mind, spending most of his life inside his head instead of anywhere else in the real world.

I’m pretty sure we INTJs do have the same “mystical” vibe of the INFJs, as we share the same dominant function. The big difference is that our visions and understandings are more for ourselves and not directed to help everybody and seek world peace like the INFJs’.


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Without knowledge of the cognitive functions, I would still accept the INTJ x INTP debate, because House’s P/J dichotomy isn’t so obvious as the other three. Actually, P/J is never obvious for introverts: while EJs are the really strong Js and EPs are the really strong Ps, IJs are dominant Ps and IPs are dominant Js, which can be very confusing.

INTJ’s dominant function Ni is a perceiving function. By definition, we are said Js only because we prefer extraverted judging (Te) and introverted perceiving (Ni). But, even when we look at it like that, it’s still easy to see House is quite the J, since we are more aggressive and judgmental towards our outside experience and more “Hm, that’s interesting...” towards our inner experience.

When trusting a MBTI test that makes those scales of 55% J x 45% P, I guess it’s possible that many INTJs had tested as INTPs at first. Then, studying the cognitive functions clear things up. That’s what happened to me and that’s why we have to tell types looking primarily at the functions. The best way to type someone is to firstly look at the obvious letters (there are usually one or two) and then analyze the functions of the left options.

I don’t know if this misunderstanding is the lead cause to mistyping INTJs, but this was just a brief overview I wanted to make anyway. Now, I’m gonna argue about Dr. House. It astonishes me when I see it’s not so clear to everybody he’s a hell of an INTJ. The guy is totally defined by Ni, Te, Fi and Se. Since the most appellant discussion is whether House is an INTJ or an ENTP, people seem to at least agree he’s an N-dom with T-aux.


However, it’s easy to see Ni is the dominant going on, not Ne. Just look at any moment of his reasoning process. He’s not using Ne to connect the dots, including new elements in his theorizing, in order to find new possibilities. He’s using Ni to fill everything in the blanks, excluding elements, in order to find the one possibility. Not only he does that when solving puzzles, but in his whole life. Watch again “One Day, One Room” (the one where he discusses about life, abortion and religion with a patient who was raped) and you’ll see what I’m saying.

He needs to solve the puzzles, which has always been his primary motivation. House is a brilliant theoretician, able to synthetize a lot of seemingly contradictory bits of evidence into one general idea. All the time, House uses to sit around and keep looking at nowhere or playing with his ball, while, inside his head, he’s putting the pieces of the puzzle together until the answer pops among his thoughts. Remember how, in almost every episode, House has that “Aha!” moment, when he stops some random stuff he’s doing and goes to the patient’s room to announce the final diagnosis. Those epiphany moments come from classic Ni.

When House explains things, he uses a lot of metaphors in an Ni way. This works on making an internal association is made between the factual seen object and the random never seen element of the metaphor. Then, we use it to say what we want to say. No function is more metaphorical than Ni, not even Ne (I’ll give you only Nietzsche if you disagree). INJs’ intuition constantly comes in this “out of the blue” way, without any help of the external objects. That’s, for instance, why I find it common to suddenly change the subject of a conversation in a way people could respond “Where the hell did you get that from?”.

House trusts way too much his internal perceptions to not be a Pi-dom. It’s through his Ni how he utters statements like “Everybody lies.”, “It’s never lupus.” or “Humanity is overrated.”. Remember also how he often says “Coincidences don’t exist.”. Hating coincidences totally relies on Ni, whereas Ni is the function responsible for diving deep and trying to understand what seems to be contradictory. House is a man who portraits a lot of seeming paradoxes; e.g., he dedicates himself to save people’s lives, but claim to hate his patients.

Ni repressing Se often makes us INJs lose touch with factual realities, as we’re capable of desperately holding onto ideas formed internally. House is obstinate in the better yet unorthodox methods he sees of doing things. When his understandings of things often don’t match society rules, he concludes “Reality is almost always wrong.”. Like Wilson said on the funeral scene in the last episode, he establishes insane ideals of integrity that nobody can keep up with.

There are a lot of moments when we see his struggle with inferior Se, as he tends to overindulge drugs and alcohol. He’s a true slave of his repressed sensations (especially, when he gets stressed): riding his motorcycle, getting high on Vicodin or having casual sex with hookers. He has his leg’s pain problem, does he deal with it properly? No, he does drugs to numb himself to it. He wants to distort reality and he’s definitely running away from the physical world. If that’s not dominant Ni with repressed Se, I don’t know what is.


From what I’ve known and seen, ENTPs look for entertainment. Ne/Ti’s process is like exploring an enormous unknown ground field of knowledge. If they don’t see anywhere to go, they get bored. Since they naturally see other points of view, they want to check every possibility and they believe each one of them has a chance of being true. Their minds are always trying to break symmetries of things and look at things in a way never looked before. On the other hand, INTJs look for deep meanings. What we really want is to taper as deep as possible in one area of the ground field and find the lowest common denominator. Ni/Te’s process works like a diamond being polished. There is this big mass of guesses, impressions, associations, theories and understandings that Ni voices keeps throwing at us. Meanwhile, Te strives to mold this mass and organize it with logic. I see House being a lot more like my second description than the first one. He gets dogged in puzzles because they’re stimulating, because questions need answers. He sees the opened boxes that nobody but him is able to close. Are ENTPs also like that? No, they want to break the boxes, not to close them. Why? Because then new things can come out of the box. House is all about depth and definitely not about breadth, which I think it’s the key difference between INTJ and ENTP.

One could say his discussions with the team about the possible theories happen in a brainstormer Ne way. However, what we see he brandishing on them is pure Te. He’s not running through Ne’s possibilities, he’s doing the Ni/Te’s diamond polishing above-mentioned. What we mainly see on the differential scenes is House discarding options, not looking for them. He goes to the diagnosis room and everyone spews their theories into a bowl. Then, he starts shaping his and their ideas. Observe also that, every time he rules options out, he has to tell them why they’re wrong. He rarely talks about his theory until it’s fully digested and he needs to write everything down to organize what he’s thinking, that’s Ni/Te. Remember the episode they were locked in a room and he starts writing the patient’s symptoms all over the walls.

Making lists, using graphics and charts or writing thoughts down are things that actually help us Te users out. For instance, let’s say I’m solving a math problem where I know the facts A and B from the hypothesis and I want to prove the thesis C. It gets easier for me when I write A and B on my board, ‘cause then I have free space in my mind to only think about the connection I’m going to do to find C. I always think better when I imagine myself explaining what I’m thinking to somebody. The war of possibilities happens inside our minds via Ni, while the organization happens outside via Te. While House’s theorizing is being done internally, he’s applying logic to the external objects. “Right and wrong do exist. We just don’t know what the right answer is.”, “Everything can be rationally explained.”. That’s Te wanting the world to make sense, trying to give it a logical form.

I saw a good Ti x Te comparison here in this forum the other day: “Ti starts with the theory, then moves to the facts, then ends with the theory; Te starts with the facts, then moves to the theory, then ends with the facts.”. In other words, Ti users see the facts as a mere illustration of the theory. As you can see, Ni and Te are the perfect functions for this diagnosis thing. House’s process is similar to applied mathematics: there’s a problem in the real world, then we bring into the abstract world to find a theory to solve it, then we come back to the real world with the right answer.

I also saw somewhere that Ti is more deductive, while Te is more inductive. After reading it, I started having the strong impression it’s true, at least with people I know. Ti is deductive at first and then inductive when necessary, while Te is inductive at first and then deductive if it’s possible. I’m not finding the article here, so I can’t really say much more. I’ll just throw this argument out then, but I still totally believe in it and I see Te fits more House than Ti. Remember how he always makes conclusions about people he just meets, putting them into neat boxes and quickly assuming their stereotypes. It sounds as quite an inductive thing to do.

One could also say House is an ENTP considering that witty comebacks and arguments are an exclusive ENTP trait, but that’s not true. Te users can be just as quick-witted as ENTPs, but in a different way. Where Ne is the spontaneous perceiving, Te is the harsh judging. Te/Fi is what makes House do and say exactly what he wants to do and say. He speaks his mind and makes decisions without hesitating to consider others’ rules and expectations, which often gets him in trouble. House’s demeanor is as honest, direct, rude and abrupt as possible. That all relies on his Te using.


Before I continue the argument about his functions, how the hell can people possibly believe House is an E? How could a character be anymore secluded, private and misanthropic than he is? When House interacts with others, he gets drained very easily. He doesn’t get his energy from others at all, he’s a hardcore introvert. He has his only one best friend and that’s more than enough for him. When we see him out of the hospital, do we see him going out? Does he go to any kind of social event? No, he almost always goes home and plays his piano, his guitar or watches TV. He hangs out with Wilson once in a while, but nothing more than that.

If you’re still not sure about this, go watch the two rehab episodes to remember how withdrawn and socially detached House is. Extraverts can have some alone times, sure, but House is the extreme. Staying home most nights is not much E in my books. If House’s an extravert, then how could a true introvert be? Do you Es think we are 100% isolated creatures who never open our mouths for nothing? If Dr. House is not an I, then almost nobody in the world is.

I saw some saying House got himself a team and so it means his preferred modus operandi is by interacting with people. Well, House hired a team for two clear reasons: he doesn’t like dealing with patients and he doesn’t want to get his hands dirty on the menial tasks. They are responsible for talking to the patients, getting their records, breaking into their homes, making tests for diseases, etc. First reason argues against the possibility he’s an E who uses Fe, so it argues against ENTP. Second reason argues for low S function, which fits both INTJ and ENTP.


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Despite everything I’ve said so far, if Ni x Ne still leaves any doubt, just take a look at his judging functions. It’s a no brainer that House’s extraverted judging is Te and definitely not Fe. Te/Fi wins Ti/Fe very easily, I can’t understand how some people don’t see it. House is a curmudgeon who doesn’t give a shit about others. There are few to nonexistent moments when he cares about being appreciated or about making everyone feel good and on the same page. Dr. House’s persona is the antithesis of any possible understanding I could have of the words “altruism” or “charisma". I can take an extreme example: when Thirteen tells House she euthanized her brother, he stands completely unresponsive to that. Fe would make him get overwhelmed or at least a little bit annoyed with other people’s emotional problems, but it doesn’t happen. Why? Because he’s an egocentric bastard.

Even if we consider the possibility he’s an ENTP with a hidden never-shown tert-Fe, we readily rule it out when we see his tert-Fi is all over the place. House is extremely selfish, narcissistic, independent, self-confident and arrogant. Despite coming across as aloof and insensitive, many of these House’s prominent traits are very Fi-ish. House is a nonconformist who does everything on his own terms, “You pretend to be a rebel, claim to hate rules, but all you do is substitute society’s rules for your own.”.

People could think he’s an ENTP because of this irreverence against rules. Well, you guys should know then that INTJs are also very anti-authority. The difference between INTJs and ENTPs breaking the rules is: ENTPs want freedom and get frustrated with boundaries confining their creativity; while INTJs say “Fuck your norms. I’ll do everything my way, by my principals.”. Yes, we are organized and methodical. Yes, we do value some order and structure. It only means we have some rules, not that we respect society rules. On the contrary, I actually hate it when I feel I’m blindly dancing to other people’s music.

House’s relationship with leadership and authority is precisely the same as INTJ’s. We’re natural leaders, but we’d rather command our few selected ones than to join millions of minions to our army. Just compare House, who’s an INTJ, to Cuddy, who’s an ENTJ. ITJs have Te-aux, which means we’re perfectly capable leaders, but, as introverts, we don’t care about being at the center of the attention. Unlike the ETJs, who have Te-dom and so desire to be in charge, we prefer to stay in a second position until nobody is able to take the lead. I can say by personal experience that I only feel comfortable with being the leader when I’m actually needed there.


Throughout the whole show, House has displayed a strong lack of sympathy to his patients. The reason behind it is that he has to make it clear he’s not doing what he does for the patients, but only for himself, for the puzzle he enjoys solving. He’ll always find some selfish motivation to justify anything he does. INTJs’ introverted judging works on self-centered terms. We measure something’s worth on “Is it of my interest? Is it important to me?”, “How does it affect me?”, “Does it go for or against my principals?”. House’s friendship with Wilson is incredibly unilateral, everything has always been about House. Even when Wilson was dying of cancer, he kept saying “You have to fight because I need you.”, “Because, if you die, I’m alone.”.

When we NTJs say “It’s MY goals. I do things MY way, with MY motivations.”, that’s Ni/Fi going on and that’s where we NTJs types get our confidence from. Mainly in INTJs, our Te acts like a big brother to our Fi. Fi says “I’m special and I have my values.” and then Te comes to know it in an objective way, making us look self-controlled. More than any other type, INTJs love to do things “my way” and that’s because of the Ni/Fi combination. Being ordinary is something that scares us. Ni says “I have the superior visions and insights.” and Fi says “I’m unique, I’m proud of myself.”. All strong Fi users want to be different and independent; but strong Ni/Fi users? We want it twice. House portraits this rebellion even in meaningless things like not wearing a white coat like the other “common doctors”. Yes, I know ENTPs are also very original, but their crazy eccentric stereotype comes from Ne’s creativity and spontaneity, not from some sort of self-worth sentiment. I’m sure a tert-Fe user would never have House’s pathological god complex. Yes, ETPs are perfectly capable of looking confident and/or arrogant, but they don’t have a powerful Fi to serve as their fuel like we do.

It can be clearly seen in ETPs’ communication style that they look for charisma and they always try to sound enjoyable and convincing. Remember of ETPs you’ve known and tell me if it’s not true. I’m not saying they can’t be objective. ENTPs are, after all, idea oriented, not people oriented. However, their Fe is not repressed and it’s evident to me that their charm “contaminates” everything they say. INTJs are not like that, House is not like that. Te communication is completely “clean” and dispassionate. We’re only saying what we’re saying. Te/Fi is responsible for making sure I’m always being impartial and true to myself.

It’s not supposed to mean we’re all grumpy and anti-social, because we’re actually not (another error in our stereotype). ENTPs are very charismatic, while INTJs don’t give a crap about getting people to like them. At the end of the day, despite all their tireless argumentativeness, tert-Fe users do want everybody to get along. Although we INTJs have no problems with people, we don’t feel any sort of pressure or need for them. We’re just “You like me? Alright.”, “You don’t? Alright too.”. Again, I’m not saying we’re all nasty sociopaths like House, we’re not. He’s just an extreme example of an unhealthy INTJ. Besides, I think his pain in his leg indeed contributes to his anger.

Looking at his ego is the easiest way to observe his Fi. It’s needless to say House has got a lot of pride going on in his emotional issues. “You don’t need to depend on people who’re gonna let you down.”, he’s independent as hell. Fi provides us those alien, isolated sentiments and House almost never feels like talking about them, but they’re obviously there. They come out sometimes in form of anger. Most likely reason of this concealment is that he understands talking about it won’t help him make things better. On the contrary, displaying vulnerability usually get things worse. At least, that’s what happens to me. I’ve had few emotional outbursts in my life and, when I did, I repented right after. When I talk about personal stuff with my ENTP friend, I always get the Tyler Durden vibe from him: “You’re not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.”. That’s a (Ti/Fe)-ish quote, clearly far away from House’s persona.


If we pay attention and take a closer look at him, House has not many P traits to offer. As I can see, Js want to be able to control their fates, while Ps just want to let their canoe flow. I don’t think a P could be so seriously stressed out with life for years like House did. Yes, of course they can feel tense sometimes, but, afterwards, they are naturally laid-back and relaxed adventurers. House doesn’t try to enjoy himself. He doesn’t enjoy anything at all. House’s superhero qualities don’t match NTPs’, since NTPs seek knowledge in their lives for its own adventure’s sake. “Do you really think your life’s purpose was to sacrifice yourself and get nothing in return?”. When I look at ENPs, I see those light broad colors… While House is so gray and deep.

House is self-controlled and often accused of being a manipulative bastard. All his rudeness and rule-breaking are very calculated. He always has his motives and he’s always aware of the implying consequences of what he does. So, yes, House has got a lot of J composure, not P spontaneity: “Life just happens and that scares the hell out of you.”. When a patient dies and Foreman tries to comfort him saying it wasn’t his fault, he screams “That’s the point! I did everything right, she died anyway. Why the hell do you think that will make me feel any better?”. He was frightened because he felt in that moment the possibility that maybe everything is not under his control.

ENTPs love change, while House is stubborn and clearly dislikes change. “People don’t change.”, “It’s one of the great tragedies of life – something always changes.”. Do you ENTPs identify with any of these quotes? I don’t think so. House is actually afraid of changing who he is and trying to be happy. He’s a J all the way, just look at his self-confidence. When you’re a J, you’re self-conscious: you know your limits and you know what you’re good at and what you’re not. Therefore, high self-confidence or high insecurity are J traits. An extraverted perceiver hardly would be so full of himself for so long. House has a strong designed arrogance. He’s way too genuinely confident to not have Te/Fi.

How the hell could he prefer Ti to Te? Seriously, House prefers introverted judging? Doesn’t it sound absurd to you? Watch three minutes of the show and there’ll be lines like “You guys are idiots.”, “Cameron, you broke up with Chase because you were too depressed about your dying husband.”, “Look at Cuddy’s shirt, doesn’t she dress like a whore?” or “This guy just keeps fighting TB in Africa to be famous, rich and get laid.”. Now, you’ll ask me “Ne/Ti users can’t have opinions about others anymore?”. They can, but they’re not judgers of people and the world like House is. He’s undeniably more judgmental than perceptive towards the outside experience, which makes him a strong Te user, so a strong J.


Before seasons 7 and 8, he was the most perfectly written INTJ to ever exist in fiction. On the two latest seasons, he went through some changes that I think made unbiased people believe he’s an EP. He became more randomly impulsive and less deeply purposeful. It’s not about the puzzle, it’s not about himself, it’s not about anything anymore. It’s just about doing whatever he wants to do. I don’t think the character from the first six seasons would ever hit Cuddy’s house with a car or arrive at work wearing sunglasses dancing with a radio over his shoulder.

House has always had a strong sense of humor, I know, but it didn’t strike me as something random and meaningless, it was the pure and dry INTJ sarcasm. He didn’t have the sense of humor that looks for entertainment, but the one that either is said because he himself found it would be a clever answer or because it helps him to say “You’re an idiot and I don’t respect you or what you said.”. Then, in the latest two seasons, they gave him some stupid goofiness…

Once in an interview, Hugh Laurie said that some shows in American television are pressed to have their characters molded in order to identify with the young public. He also said that he thinks it started happening with House on the latest seasons… So I guess we have an explanation. Anyway, I don’t think he ever stopped being an INTJ, just became a little less consistent. He lost some depth and got some of those impulsive moments, but I’d still say he remained a 95% INTJ (and that’s how most fictional characters use to be: not completely perfect).


Furthermore, I actually believe House was made on purpose to be an INTJ. I believe David Shrew knew Jungian typology when he wrote House M.D.’s characters, because they are all so deep and fit so perfectly in one of the personality types. Wilson is a textbook INFJ, Cuddy is a textbook ENTJ, Foreman is a textbook INTJ, Chase is a textbook ISTP…

Many of you must know House was partly inspired by Arthur Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes, who’s also quite the INTJ. In fact, he and House are almost the same character. Don’t come to me with BBC Sherlock, I’m talking about the one from the books. I never watched the show and I don’t know what type he is in there, but it’s possible they made some changes.

At long last, you can see in House all characteristics that are said to be typical of the INTJ. I don’t even have to give more examples, just go to any INTJ description and ask “Does House do that?”, “Oh yeah, he surely does.”. “But you complained about the descriptions.”, I said most of them aren’t very good, but they’re not wrong either.

Therefore, if you think you’re an INTJ, but you watched House and weren’t able to identify with him, I’m afraid you have mistyped yourself. And, if you think you’re an INTJ, but you like to claim yourself a cold person with a super scientific view of the world, I have some news for you: you have mistyped yourself.


P.S. 1: I know it doesn’t count as an argument, but my best friend is an ENTP and we both agree House is an INTJ.

P.S. 2: About the other characters on the first picture I posted: Voldemort is an ENTJ, inferior Fi plus the “I wanna be bigger than the world.” ENTJ thing; Sheldon and Hannibal are both untypable, because Asperger’s and psychopathy are mental problems that affect one’s behavior.
 

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Damn boy-o!! You wrote an entire essay! You tryna get into a school...? :th_wink:

But really, are ENTPs trying to claim House!? Gross! I actually tend to dislike the characters commonly typed as ENTP: the witty/quick-tongued kinda youthful generally attractive guy who is the Smartest Person™ in the room. Please...that's so square. Where's the magic!?

It is true tho that I personally as an ENTP have tremendous charisma, and beyond that, sure, I suppose I can be a bright little light bulb when I try, but I'd rather just be a fun idiot who has a good time! And provides plenty of laughs for my buds! O and I guess is able to assume center stage, weave social relationships together, and direct the flow of crowds. U kno, that whole thang...

But ENTP is the visionary and INFP is the foreseer and INTJ people I know fit the scientist title so well...like every INTJ I know is finicky and fickle and works at their own pace, tends to change direction often, love to learn and understand and immerse themselves in their hobbies/interests, and above all, want to have their integrity recognised! Total scientists! (Also a little arrogant, kind of socially awkward/weird, and need someone to hold their hand when it comes to piecing together their emotions.)

In fact, most INTJs are know are pretty irrational and neurotic. I think that's because they want to know why things happen so much they end up cornering themselves sometimes lol! Or they just have something to prove:



:crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Damn boy-o!! You wrote an entire essay! You tryna get into a school...? :th_wink:

But really, are ENTPs trying to claim House!? Gross! I actually tend to dislike the characters commonly typed as ENTP: the witty/quick-tongued kinda youthful generally attractive guy who is the Smartest Person™ in the room. Please...that's so square. Where's the magic!?

It is true tho that I personally as an ENTP have tremendous charisma, and beyond that, sure, I suppose I can be a bright little light bulb when I try, but I'd rather just be a fun idiot who has a good time! And provides plenty of laughs for my buds! O and I guess is able to assume center stage, weave social relationships together, and direct the flow of crowds. U kno, that whole thang...

But ENTP is the visionary and INFP is the foreseer and INTJ people I know fit the scientist title so well...like every INTJ I know is finicky and fickle and works at their own pace, tends to change direction often, love to learn and understand and immerse themselves in their hobbies/interests, and above all, want to have their integrity recognised! Total scientists! (Also a little arrogant, kind of socially awkward/weird, and need someone to hold their hand when it comes to piecing together their emotions.)

In fact, most INTJs are know are pretty irrational and neurotic. I think that's because they want to know why things happen so much they end up cornering themselves sometimes lol! Or they just have something to prove
Precisely! So you agree with me. You ENTPs are the charismatic noisy clowns, while we INTJs are little spoiled selfish brats :p

And it's very true I like to immerse myself in my hobbies/interests until I become a guru in it, but I still don't like to be called a scientist. It gives us this WRONG cold robot stereotype. Don't you think this name more suitable for a T-dom? INTPs I know are a lot more scientific than me. I'd like a name that emphasizes my N qualities, not T.

Irrationally neurotic sometimes, wanting so much to know why things happen, cornering myself from time to time... I identify with all of this. I think some problems I've had in the past were because my understanding of things were just so far away from the nitty-gritty reality.
 

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I actually am of the school of thought that he's probably an NTJ of some kind. But, it varies-- TV characters are hardly consistent.

About the only thing that resembles the way an NTP operates, is how he will write on the whiteboard and get ideas from his 'audience' of interns, or what-have-you. We tend to like bouncing ideas off of people and formulating our own thoughts.

But, there's nothing that says that NTJs can't also do such things.

House is kind of unusual, though, no matter what way you dice it. He's a good example of why there are different people within types.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
About the only thing that resembles the way an NTP operates, is how he will write on the whiteboard and get ideas from his 'audience' of interns, or what-have-you. We tend to like bouncing ideas off of people and formulating our own thoughts.
Many people use this argument... But I argued against it on my post.
 

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He's an INTJ, he clearly use Ni Te thinking process. There is nothing Fe about this guy, yet he constantly use Te. He gathers data thru Se and process them subconsciously with intuition. I thought white board brain storming is typical method for differential diagnosis, but I'm not in a medical field.
I disagree with your typings in the other thread, though. Foreman in not NTJ type, dude has literally 0 Ni. I would say ESTJ for him. Cameron is Fi, not Fe dom. Dunno why she is typed as Fe dom on popular MBTI boards, probably because she cares about her patients lol; Socionics forums on the other hand picture her as an ESI or EII, correctly imo. Character is a bit ISFP-ish, actress is an INFP probably.
Chase I could see as STP. Wilson Fe - Ti type, possibly, but not sure if he leads with intuition.
PS your notion about Ti type being natural scientist is correct imo and it is in accordance with original Jung descriptions of types as well as with Socionics.
 

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In my experience with NTJs and NTPs, he's certainly the former. He constantly shoots down whatever theories his subordinates give to explain the diagnosis, never explaining his reasons for doing so and gives the impression that he really doesn't care about any of them. The only thing that could link to NTPs is his tendency to do things simply because they'll be fun and spark some reaction from his coworkers. An NTP would be a lot more open to ideas different to his own instead of rejecting all of them outright. :p
 

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Many people use this argument... But I argued against it on my post.
Anyone can use this kind of 'brainstorming' method, behaviourally speaking. When it comes to the meat and cognition of House, he seems to operate as an NTJ.

As an aside, I wish people wouldn't personalize their typings so much. You're the only INTJ who's like you, to use you as an example. No matter how much you may relate to a fictional character.

And it gets tricky when you start relating to characters which are not your personality type, and perhaps you somehow consider yourself betraying your personality type, or trying to fit people into boxes where they don't fit, simply because you relate to them.

There's nothing wrong with people relating to other people. That's kinda what I think of as the human condition.

So, when there are NTPs, or NFJs, or whoever, trying to 'lay claim' to House, it's only because they relate and/or admire him. And the same goes for other characters. People can have such heated debates, all based on their own egos.

I've always seen him as an xNTJ. Then again, I don't really relate to him. But, there's much to admire in terms of his skills portrayed in the show.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
He's a fictional character and a weak basis for an archetype. Look at history instead of media.
He is a fictional character and a very strong basis for an archetype.

You're saying I should look at historical figures? How much am I able to poke about them? Say Isaac Newton, for instance, who's said to be an INTJ. Looking at his famous quotes or at what historical sources tell about them?

Unless we're only talking about scientists, phylosophers, etc.; then we also have their work to analyze. You can see I mentioned Nietzsche on my text, whose Ni using is fucking obvious.

But I still don't know why it's better than looking at a fictional character like House. Everything we should know about him is within reach. The show lasted 171 whole episodes through 8 seasons, he's been made as deeply and complexly as possible.
 

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I've kind of always seen him as some kind of Ti type, granted I've only watched a few cursory snippets of episodes here and there over the course of 3-4 years, but his misanthropic tendencies and reliance on what "the data says", always struck me as Ti. I don't care about what people are telling me, what other medical journalist say (Zebra's vs. Horses discussion) or what their opinions are (which to me would seem Te-ish), I only care about what the truth is.

Also the "people always lie" thing strikes me as low Si with really bad Fe. But again I haven't watched enough episodes for a thoroughly involved typing. I'm catching up on this with Netflix this weekend, I'll explain my thoughts further if I have anything solid to reference and engage you with.

Edit to add: Watching the pilot now, I really don't see him using Ni. He's literally just throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. He's building bridges and associations between things that could be the cause of what could happen, but the way he is getting there is threw odd happenstances being culminated as he interacts with the world. "Your wife is cheating on you" "You've turned orange because of these two events", "Steroids could be the answer, lets see", that trial, experimentation and openness to multiple kinds of outcomes seems more Ne focused than Ni. Ni usually has an outline or idea of what is happening, and comes out in knowing things and being right. Ni doesn't like changing it's path and is more finite in it's approach to things. It's "this is the answer" not "all these things could work, lets test and then wait and see."

His explanation for things is literally all over the place. Not as concise as you would see in a Ni user. The way he comes to conclusions seems more J.D. from Scrubs (ENFP, Ne) than Meredith Grey from Grey's Anatomy (ISTP, Ni).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I've kind of always seen him as some kind of Ti type, granted I've only watched a few cursory snippets of episodes here and there over the course of 3-4 years, but his misanthropic tendencies and reliance on what "the data says", always struck me as Ti. I don't care about what people are telling me, what other medical journalist say (Zebra's vs. Horses discussion) or what their opinions are (which to me would seem Te-ish), I only care about what the truth is.

Also the "people always lie" thing strikes me as low Si with really bad Fe. But again I haven't watched enough episodes for a thoroughly involved typing. I'm catching up on this with Netflix this weekend, I'll explain my thoughts further if I have anything solid to reference and engage you with.
Why do you relate Ti to misantrophy? A Te/Fi combination sounds a lot more misanthropic to me than Ti/Fe.

Reliance to what data says is totally Te. Te directs its logic to the external objects, while Ti attempts to understand the logical framework behind objects.

Only caring about what the truth is could be related to both Ti and Te. Says nothing.

And you said you think Ti, but right after gave a Te argument? What's your point?

“Everybody Lies.” implies he’s skeptical. Why does skepticism imply bad Si/Fe?

I accept a Ni/Ne or a P/J discussion, but House’s Te/Fe preference is OBVIOUS. I really don’t understand how he could possibly have more Fe than Te.


Edit to add: Watching the pilot now, I really don't see him using Ni. He's literally just throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. He's building bridges and associations between things that could be the cause of what could happen, but the way he is getting there is threw odd happenstances being culminated as he interacts with the world. "Your wife is cheating on you" "You've turned orange because of these two events", "Steroids could be the answer, lets see", that trial, experimentation and openess to multiple kinds of outcomes seems more Ne focused than Ni. Ni usually has an outline or idea of what is happening, and comes out in knowing things and being right. Ni doesn't like changing it's path and is more finite in it's approach to things. It's "this is the answer" not "all these things could work, lets test and then wait and see."
You’re painting the difference like “Ne doesn’t know what’s right and wants to test all possibilities, while Ni has only one option and doesn’t want to change its path.”. Wow, I must really be a prophet then! INTJs want to have the decision made as soon as possible, sure, but we only make it when we’re able to.

He’s not throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. He’s SEEING the possible stamps on the wall via Ni and then attempting to eliminate the wrong ones via Te. Ni is like a dense fog that is everywhere and nowhere at the same time, while Ne is quickly jumping from one place to another.

Summary: Ni wants to taper possibilities, while Ne wants to expand them. “Oh, but he has to save the patient, he has to reduce options and make a decision sometime.”. Yes, that’s why I explained on my post how Ni and Te are perfect for this diagnosis process.

Again, I’ve already argued against the brainstorming argument on my post. Did you read it?

I also talked about how he concludes things about people he just meets (a very cool reference to Sherlock Holmes, by the way) on the first post. He is SURE about it, not guessing, when he says "Your wife is cheating on you." or "You've turned orange because of these two events.". He’s asserting his conclusion via Te’s inductive reasoning, not saying what “could be” via Ne.

His catenation is made of links that have let's say 80% chance of being true. It’s analogous, for instance, to when Sherlock is first introduced to Watson and says “You were at Afghanistan.”. He sees he has a military way of standing up and his communication reminds a doctor’s one. Sees a wrick on his arm and that his skin looks sunburned. Then, he puts it all together and concludes “He must be an army doctor, who was on a war recently.”.

The question here is that he can’t be really sure he’s an army doctor only by looking at him; it’s just the best possibility. His tower is built on sand pillars, favoring induction to deduction. He automatically trusts a balance of probabilities and aggressively makes a decision via Ni/Te, instead of running through multiple possibilities and trusting rigorous deductive reasoning via Ne/Ti.

Not only in these moments, but all the time, that's exactly how House approaches possibilities: he’s aggressively ruling them out, not expansively believing in each one of them. He bombs T functioning towards the external world, not N.




I think it would be better to watch some highlights videos on YouTube than to watch the pilot. He was clearly an INTJ right from the beginning, but still not a very deep the one. The big development of the character comes up a little later. He started as only a pure copy of Sherlock Holmes, catching up a weird detail and thinking backwards to solve the case. Throughout the development of the show, his fascinating personal and moral struggles began to appear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sooner or later, you guys will arrive at the conclusion Ni is way better than Ne.

Sorry about that. :/
 

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Sooner or later, you guys will arrive at the conclusion Ni is way better than Ne.

Sorry about that. :/
Ni-dominants have a singular vision of what they expect of the future. Ne-dominants raise possibilities that sometimes Ni-dominants overlook and can establish more elaborate visions. Se-dominants fill in the intricate details that the Ni and Ne dominants may have overlooked due to being solely visionaries, and Si-dominants can remind each of the types how they are all being too idealistic and how their goals are unrealistic. I think all have been essential in the workings of society, and will continue to be so. If we are to believe Darwinism and evolution, if MBTI-types are indeed a proven reality, there's a reason there is 16 types of personalities.

But to get back on track, I have tried to type House myself but have always had issues between INTJ/ENTP. I tend to believe the latter simply because, what is this guy's vision? What is he working towards? He really isn't. Instead, he is always testing new hypotheses. But I haven't finished the series myself, nor intend to. Ultimately, however, it isn't enough to say someone is an INTJ based on the stereotype of them being an asshole.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Ni-dominants have a singular vision of what they expect of the future. Ne-dominants raise possibilities that sometimes Ni-dominants overlook and can establish more elaborate visions. Se-dominants fill in the intricate details that the Ni and Ne dominants may have overlooked due to being solely visionaries, and Si-dominants can remind each of the types how they are all being too idealistic and how their goals are unrealistic. I think all have been essential in the workings of society, and will continue to be so. If we are to believe Darwinism and evolution, if MBTI-types are indeed a proven reality, there's a reason there is 16 types of personalities.
I believe too that everyone has as role in society. Actually, I was writing about it in some post these days. The thing is: we need a lot of logistical doers, but we don't need a lot of dreamer visionaires. That's why I say Ns (specially, Ni users) are superior. :D

But to get back on track, I have tried to type House myself but have always had issues between INTJ/ENTP. I tend to believe the latter simply because, what is this guy's vision? What is he working towards? He really isn't. Instead, he is always testing new hypotheses. But I haven't finished the series myself, nor intend to. Ultimately, however, it isn't enough to say someone is an INTJ based on the stereotype of them being an asshole.
You're the third one that comes with the "House brainstorms possibilities." argument without reading what I already argued against (twice).

You're also simplifying a lot what Ni is.

Do you think I'm typing House based on stereotypes? I did the exact opposite here, I complained about INTJ's stereotypes, but I explained why I think his assholeness works in a Te/Fi way.
 

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You're the third one that comes with the "House brainstorms possibilities." argument without reading what I already argued against (twice).

Do you think I'm typing House based on stereotypes? I did the exact opposite here, I complained about INTJ's stereotypes, but I explained why I think his assholeness works in a Te/Fi way.
Yes, I did read it actually. I understand what you mean, and of course INTJs can see more than one possibility in a situation to "taper it to one." But INTJs always are working towards some longterm vision, whether it be a relationship or career. From what I have watched, House simply doesn't do that and is more of a person who lives predominantly in the realm of possibilities (through his work when trying every possibility to taper it down to one and his inconsistency in settling with anyone or anything.) INTJ characters, for that matter, know what they want and pursue it head on without hesitation. His crippling past, from what I have seen has always been a great cause of his "assholeness" to say, which could provide some Si.

But again, I haven't watched the show in its entirety so I am not an expert on the character. When I have, however, I was torn between the two types. I always settled for ENTP for the reasons I mentioned.
 

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Why do you relate Ti to misantrophy? A Te/Fi combination sounds a lot more misanthropic to me than Ti/Fe.
Ti dehumanizes everything and breaks things down to the logical essence to how things work. Te is more focused on establishing set standards that need to be met in order to produce something in the external world. Ti sees problems that need to be fixed in order to work, and is able to suss out issues and problems and is more about perfectionism. Ti in essence pretty much devalues anything that doesn't excel. I think Te is a bit more lenaint in that as long as something is able to be produced it can still be used and found value in it. But both Ti and Te devalue the human worth and experience for what will work or excel.

Reliance to what data says is totally Te. Te directs its logic to the external objects, while Ti attempts to understand the logical framework behind objects.
Yes, but House uses the data in a different way. House ignores other people's thoughts and observations and follows his own subjective set of logic. For instance he talks about hiring people because of their juvenile records or because of how good looking they are instead of judging things based on their GPA average, their graduation percentile or what schools they went to. Those are classic Te like markers. Te wants to win, looks for the best and looks for external markers of superiority. Te wants to be successful and looks to breed success with external markers of success for their decisions. They look for external validation regarding their worth -- be it through acclaim or other markers of superiority. House doesn't do that. House doesn't care at all about external markers, he goes by his own logical system. House cares about solving issues and problems and has issues with letting go of problems until he can solve them. That seems more Ti-ish. Ti sees value in knowledge and needs to figure out all aspects of an issue before it can being to solve it. Te is more, this works, this will do, the case is finished. House needs a 360 overview of the patient, their history, what they've done, what was the source of the outbreak, etc. He feels compelled to find out more information. That's not usually Te, that's Ti.

Only caring about what the truth is could be related to both Ti and Te. Says nothing.
Not really. A focus on inherent truth, systematically breaking things down to how they work and those philosophical notions are more Ti in nature. Te doesn't care about a systematic 360 overhaul of how everything is interconnected, it cares if things can be organized, structured and built to produce things to work and produce something in the external world. Te is more seen in maps, government, status reports, building documents, organizational charts, etc. Te is more focused on maximizing efforts to be pushed toward a goal of some sort. Te is more can I use this information to further an external goal, Ti is more I need to understand everything about this information so I can figure out what this means to me.

“Everybody Lies.” implies he’s skeptical. Why does skepticism imply bad Si/Fe?
It sounds like he has had bad experiences with people and he is using those experiences to project how people will act in all scenarios and cases. He's basically saying all people lie, which is a pronounced mistrust of other people. Si is believing things will continue based on a past precedent, while the bad Fe comes with a damaged connection between himself and other people.

I accept a Ni/Ne or a P/J discussion, but House’s Te/Fe preference is OBVIOUS. I really don’t understand how he could possibly have more Fe than Te.
The difference isn't between Te/Fe but Te/Ti and Fe/Fi to me. I see some Fe in him specifically when he talks to the patient in the pilot and asks her not to die, when he shames the mother in one of the early episodes by not having her toddler vaccinated, when he takes the patient of his best friend because he asks him to take her case, when he goes to the kid he diagnosis's field hockey game, etc. There are markers for lower Fe, in the inferior position. I don't see why he can't be an INTP from what I have seen even if I am only in the early episodes of the first season.

I don't see him actively using Te -- he gives pretty much no credence to any kind of external markers and doesn't seem success oriented. He does his work for the thrill of unexplained cases (Ne?) and any other time he is not doing that he is bored.

You’re painting the difference like “Ne doesn’t know what’s right and wants to test all possibilities, while Ni has only one option and doesn’t want to change its path.”. Wow, I must really be a prophet then! INTJs want to have the decision made as soon as possible, sure, but we only do it when we’re able to.
Yeah but I think Ni would fine hone on a point pretty quickly as you spoke about. House doesn't do that, he is clearly running the gamut of all possibilities and ticking them down one by one until he finds something that more or less fits. That's Ne. Embracing multiple perspectives and multiple outcomes and exploring them continuously until it works, is more indicative of Ne. Ne says yes to all possibilities. Ni doesn't like exploring endless options endlessly, with no fixed end point or visualized end. Ni likes making choices and decisions to reach it's goal. It isn't open to endless wondering and pondering and going back and shifting (or re-shifting) different perspectives and charting another course after it's already made up its plan of action. Ni would come to a conclusion or find the "right scenario" pretty quickly, especially in the dominant position. Which makes me believe he can't be Ni dominant, if I already had issues with him using Te.

He’s not throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. He’s SEEING the possible stamps on the wall via Ni and then attempting to eliminate the wrong ones via Te.
I think it's more he's seeing the possibilities of what could be (Ne) and then cutting down each ones that don't make logical sense (Ti). The way he speaks about diagnosis and ideas seems more Ne indicative "here are all of my ideas." Ni can come up with multiple alternatives as well, but as I said above it wouldn't be so sprawling to just go down every idea it has and just try things out and not be invested in any of them, that's more Ne. Pretty much the entire premise of the show is that House tries endlessly to find out what is wrong with the patient and has to think threw multiple ideas to get to the heart of the issue and problems, and he is engaging and flirting with different ideas and perspectives the entire time until he finds what is the true problem or issue.

while Ne is quickly jumping from one place to another.
That seems to me to be exactly what he is doing. He is running from one idea to the next to find out what is wrong with his patients. As I said just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks and what works out. It's important to note that House just treats people, and treats them like lab rats. He is all about trial and error to diagnose his patients. His patients even yell at him and get angry at him for "not know what is wrong with them" and prescribing them medication that they don't need. He's basically a gambler.

I also talked about how he concludes things about people he just meets (a very cool reference to Sherlock Holmes, by the way) on the first post. He is SURE about it, not guessing, when he says "Your wife is cheating on you." or "You've turned orange because of these two events.". He’s asserting his conclusion via Te’s inductive reasoning, not saying what “could be” via Ne.
He's making educated guesses but I don't see why this has to be Te? Ti is also a judging function. My whole point with Ne is that he is making this connections from unsolid and unsubstantiated things that are not connected to each other and building bridges and associations with them. He's taking information that the world gives him, but still asserting his own beliefs, opinions and judgments, that makes me think he is using an extroverted perception function (taking hunches from external things) and coming to his subjective and internalized judgments to make his choices.

His tower is built on sand pillars, favoring induction to deduction. He automatically trusts a balance of probabilities and aggressively makes a decision via Ni/Te, instead of running through multiple possibilities and trusting rigorous deductive reasoning via Ne/Ti.
I would say he is intuition is mainly birthed out of taking external information and seeing what the best match and most likely cause is. He is able to come to the conclusion that the man's wife is cheating on him because she didn't notice that her husband turned orange. That's intuition in general, but he comes to this conclusion based on the information the man has expressed to him. So he is taking clues from the external world and using those to inform his hunches. It doesn't seem to be coming from inside of him. He comes to conclusions after engaging in the external world and using the external information to guide what could be the answer to him. Ni usually manifests itself as "It's this!" and House almost never does that. It's usually "it can be a variety of things". There are multiple times when House is wrong about a diagnosis -- and he moves right along and just goes back and makes another one, like it's not big deal with no skin off his back. That seems more P indicative.
 

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If House really were an INTJ do you think you would see people bantering with him for however many seasons the show went on? In my experience INTJs have some kind of shell. His clothes and hair seem relaxed for a J type and he doesn't seem judgmental at all.
 
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