[briesas]

It's become really clear to me recently that I am in my ISTP friend's...select protected and valued circle of people.

And I'm happy and hopeful for his ability to find contentment, recently also, because I think he has kicked/ is kicking a major ti-ni loop, or *something*, anyway, that had sent him into super paranoid and isolated territory.

I'm almost terrified at the - I think of it a *access* - that I have to his core. And I see little starts towards that super isolated/scared place sometimes. And I wonder how/if Ti is playing into this?

I understand the introvert need for downtime. But I'm fearful of seeing that Ti-Ni loop kick into overdrive again, or of *causing* it...so tell me more about Ti?

Sorry, I feel like I'm struggling to articulate this sensibly....

Thanks.

 

[BlueG]

So you want to know more about Ti-Ni or just Ti?

And you want to know if you will start a Ti-Ni loop? And if he is in a Ti-Ni loop, how not to kill da man being as you are a friend with special access?

 

[briesas]

A good, clarifying set of questions, thanks!

I think i know what a Ti-Ni loop looks like, and understand at least a little about what it is like to experience. I've actually asked about that one before.

-I want to know if there is such a thing as Ti-"overdrive" and what that is like.

-I want to know what causes it, if there is. I want to know that because I don't understand what it is like, or what is going on, if it even exists.

-As for me - I'm paranoid that I could kick off a bad loop, and whether as long as ISTP has his own self sorted out, and is engaging his Se - which he has and is - if that's even possible. (And from what I've seen in the past - there is no access at all for anyone around him if there is a loop.)

 

[Black Ronin]

One google search, top item: http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html
Why don't you look on these forums or the internet to learn more about Ti and Se?

Btw, only he can decide in which function he wants to operate.

 

[zynthaxx]

What you call Ti overdrive is, imo, just another way of looking at what is commonly called a Ti-Ni loop.
The relevant factor is that Ti overrides and dismisses input from Se and begins overthinking/overprocessing existing data rather than complementing the database of "knowns" with new information. This almost always coincides with a drop in the necessary confidence that the world actually is malleable and that situations can be handled in real-time rather than requiring careful planning and forethought. And since Ti disregards Se, the person will filter his current experiences through how he wants to understand them, creating a self-fulfilling (negative) feedback loop.
As has already been said several times: The person in the loop/overdrive situation needs to want to get out of it, and needs to take a "leap of faith" and force himself to trust his ability for real-time decisions. Beginning an Se-heavy hobby is one of the more effective ways for ISTPs.
And yes, it's possible to be doing Se things and still be in Ti overdrive mode if you keep staying inside of your comfort zone.

As to whether you can kick off a bad loop - it depends on how needy he is as a person. I've seen an INTP (loop behavior is very similar) crash completely in a way very similar to that of HAL9000 in the 2001 movie, but that was because he couldn't bring himself to realize the connection between choices and responsibility. Everything bad that happened to him was caused by external factors, and he was just a guy who did his best but didn't have any luck, like a puppet in a storm; or that's how he saw/sees it.
On the other hand, if that's the case with your friend, you're probably better off spending your energy on other things, in the long run...

 

[WhySoSerious]

A good, clarifying set of questions, thanks!

I think i know what a Ti-Ni loop looks like, and understand at least a little about what it is like to experience. I've actually asked about that one before.

-I want to know if there is such a thing as Ti-"overdrive" and what that is like.

-I want to know what causes it, if there is. I want to know that because I don't understand what it is like, or what is going on, if it even exists.

-As for me - I'm paranoid that I could kick off a bad loop, and whether as long as ISTP has his own self sorted out, and is engaging his Se - which he has and is - if that's even possible. (And from what I've seen in the past - there is no access at all for anyone around him if there is a loop.)

The whole "Ti-Ni" loop is a mystery to ISTPS. Generally though amongst ISTPs it's fairly accepted that something happens to us, we are not sure what or how exactly it works but we accept it as a sort of "negative mind state". Those who accept this form of personality theory try to explain it as a "Ti-Ni loop" but the reality is it may not even be that as there is no real proof heavy Ti-Ni usage is in any way negative. Your friend could simply be depressed.

Maybe backtrack? At what point in his life did things start to get negative? How was his mind state before things went bad? Did he have any goals or things he was looking forward to that didn't work out? Is he Bipolar or does he have any mood disorders?

 

[MyBigToe]

The whole "Ti-Ni" loop is a mystery to ISTPS. Generally though amongst ISTPs it's fairly accepted that something happens to us, we are not sure what or how exactly it works but we accept it as a sort of "negative mind state". Those who accept this form of personality theory try to explain it as a "Ti-Ni loop" but the reality is it may not even be that as there is no real proof heavy Ti-Ni usage is in any way negative. Your friend could simply be depressed.

Maybe backtrack? At what point in his life did things start to get negative? How was his mind state before things went bad? Did he have any goals or things he was looking forward to that didn't work out? Is he Bipolar or does he have any mood disorders?

I don't buy the whole Ti-Ni loop thing at all. I think any type will become depressed if they are forced to use their weaker functions for an extended period of time, with little chance to use their strong ones.

For an istp, Ni is weak, so how could an istp possibly get caught up using it?

 

[Erbse]

For an istp, Ni is weak, so how could an istp possibly get caught up using it?

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/93074-misconceptions-tertiary-function.html

 

[MyBigToe]

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/93074-misconceptions-tertiary-function.html

That's all well and good, but it doesn't explain why istp's take things so literally.

If we went by that theory, it should mean that an enfp's tertiary function is Te. Which would mean that Fi and Te are equal. I really don't think that could be the case.

What Jung did say, was that Te and Si are unconscious functions for an enfp.

 

[BlueG]

That's all well and good, but it doesn't explain why istp's take things so literally.

If we went by that theory, it should mean that an enfp's tertiary function is Te. Which would mean that Fi and Te are equal. I really don't think that could be the case.

What Jung did say, was that Te and Si are unconscious functions for an enfp.

Well okay. Let's reword your post so that it applies to ENFP's.

"I don't buy the whole Ne-Te loop thing at all. I think any type will become depressed if they are forced to use their weaker functions for an extended period of time, with little chance to use their strong ones.

For an ENFP, Te is weak, so how could an ENFP possibly get caught up using it?"

Still agree with yourself?

Also, Fe is a very conscious thing for me. You have no idea how many times I have to choose to use it and then work to keep using it.

 

[MyBigToe]

Well okay. Let's reword your post so that it applies to ENFP's.

"I don't buy the whole Ne-Te loop thing at all. I think any type will become depressed if they are forced to use their weaker functions for an extended period of time, with little chance to use their strong ones.

For an ENFP, Te is weak, so how could an ENFP possibly get caught up using it?"

Still agree with yourself?

Also, Fe is a very conscious thing for me. You have no idea how many times I have to choose to use it and then work to keep using it.

Yes. I do still agree with myself. Ne and Te are two extraverted functions, so they don't work together. If they did, you would get Ne,Te types. But there is no such thing.

 

[BlueG]

Yes. I do still agree with myself. Ne and Te are two extraverted functions, so they don't work together. If they did, you would get Ne,Te types. But there is no such thing.

You do realize we are talking about abnormal behavior?

 

[MyBigToe]

Yes. Te for me is not something I could ever get lost in and need to be dragged away from using. It's an effort for me to use it.
I could very easily get lost in Ne type thinking though. Too much Ne/Fi and I will become unbalanced.

Much like Ni for an istp. Theory is not something they need to be dragged away from because they get so caught up using it.
Although they can use Ni, it is seen as a chore for them.

 

[zynthaxx]

@MyBigToe : Hmm.. I don't mind if you don't buy the Ti-Ni explanation - there are other models too for this kind of a problem. What the Ti-Ni model explains is the lack of balance when it comes to what perceptive function "feeds" Ti. If you've been around an ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop, or an INTP in a Ti-Si loop (or whatever you choose to call it), you'll notice that these individuals lack what I can only call common sense. They end up thinking in circles while never taking into account that things change, and they don't even try to get a different perspective, when that's actually the only thing they need. The extroverted part of their personality basically is missing during such an episode.

I can't, however, agree with you that using my third function is a chore. I didn't have controllable access to it until somewhere in my mid teens, but it has always been present, and the benefits (and of course drawbacks) Ni gives me are a large part of what makes me who I am. In fact, when Ni became strong in me, I - like many ISTPs - had a several years long bout of Ti-Ni loops (or, again, whatever you choose to call this phenomenon) interrupted by periods of insight and clarity.

 

[reletative]

@briesas

I recall when I was in a "No Se Whatsoever" time of life, and my best friend was ENFP. I found my inferior Fe could be very affected by her Fi-rages. In other words, if she tried to go off on a Fi-vent, my Fe would try to align my emotions with hers. She could easily bring me down.

 

[madhatter]

I can't, however, agree with you that using my third function is a chore. I didn't have controllable access to it until somewhere in my mid teens, but it has always been present, and the benefits (and of course drawbacks) Ni gives me are a large part of what makes me who I am. In fact, when Ni became strong in me, I - like many ISTPs - had a several years long bout of Ti-Ni loops (or, again, whatever you choose to call this phenomenon) interrupted by periods of insight and clarity.

Ni is not a chore for me either. I would even say that it is as strong as my Se. The strength of my Ni explains my extreme introversion, to the point of isolationism, when I was a teenager.

 

[briesas]

Yes. I do still agree with myself. Ne and Te are two extraverted functions, so they don't work together. If they did, you would get Ne,Te types. But there is no such thing.

http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/74751-what-does-dom-tert-loop-look-like-enfp.html

 

[MyBigToe]

@MyBigToe : Hmm.. I don't mind if you don't buy the Ti-Ni explanation - there are other models too for this kind of a problem. What the Ti-Ni model explains is the lack of balance when it comes to what perceptive function "feeds" Ti. If you've been around an ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop, or an INTP in a Ti-Si loop (or whatever you choose to call it), you'll notice that these individuals lack what I can only call common sense. They end up thinking in circles while never taking into account that things change, and they don't even try to get a different perspective, when that's actually the only thing they need. Thextroverted part of their personality basically is missing during such an episode.

I can't, however, agree with you that using my third function is a chore. I didn't have controllable access to it until somewhere in my mid teens, but it has always been present, and the benefits (and of course drawbacks) Ni gives me are a large part of what makes me who I am. In fact, when Ni became strong in me, I - like many ISTPs - had a several years long bout of Ti-Ni loops (or, again, whatever you choose to call this phenomenon) interrupted by periods of insight and clarity.

"They end up thinking in circles while never taking into account that things change, and they don't even try to get a different perspective, when that's actually the only thing they need."

I think for an istp in that kind of situation, what would be needed is a Ne Dom to offer alternative perspectives. An entp or enfp could offer alternative ways of looking at things and help to generate possibilities that the istp would have trouble thinking up themselves.

I believe that the majority of istp's here have a function order going from Si, Te, Ni, Fe. I know that's not a popular opinion here, but it makes the most sense to me. What I think you are describing is an over reliance on Si and Te, and to get out of it, what is needed is to balance these functions with Ne and Fi. Since Te sees facts as unchanging and Si is introverted.

I guess one way to put my hypothesis to the test would be to hang out with Ne doms when a Ti/Ni loop next hits you and see what happens.

 

[MyBigToe]

@briesas

I recall when I was in a "No Se Whatsoever" time of life, and my best friend was ENFP. I found my inferior Fe could be very affected by her Fi-rages. In other words, if she tried to go off on a Fi-vent, my Fe would try to align my emotions with hers. She could easily bring me down.

What are your thoughts on Ne?

 

[reletative]

What are your thoughts on Ne?

In what regard