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We have a general concensus in my country that (mild) depression is often caused by being a self-centered egocentrist combined with an apathetic attitude towards the needs of others.

Do you agree? People just need to snap out of the vicious spiral of self-pity, especially when they have kids to take care of? Or do you disagree? Because you are special and need special attendance to your special little needs?

I personally realized that my tolerance level for people sobbing around is very low. It is a sense of discomfort around a person as if you are drowning with him/her resulting in a stress and evasion of that person. These people don't listen to sound advice and a logical approach to the solution of their oh-so serious problems, you'd almost think they developed a liking in being depressed, using arguments about their oh-so terrible environment and conidtions they have to live in.

Discuss.
 

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sly said:
We have a general concensus in my country that (mild) depression is often caused by being a self-centered egocentrist combined with an apathetic attitude towards the needs of others.
Depression could certainly be a front for this type of thinking or behavior.

sly said:
People just need to snap out of the vicious spiral of self-pity, especially when they have kids to take care of? Or do you disagree? Because you are special and need special attendance to your special little needs?

I personally realized that my tolerance level for people sobbing around is very low. It is a sense of discomfort around a person as if you are drowning with him/her resulting in a stress and evasion of that person. These people don't listen to sound advice and a logical approach to the solution of their oh-so serious problems, you'd almost think they developed a liking in being depressed, using arguments about their oh-so terrible environment and coniditions they have to live in.
Of course depressed people can't think logically, they are depressed. Depression takes psychological analysis and counseling to get through. Most people that are depressed can't get out of it on their own.

If someone is depressed and they have kids to take care of they might actually go further down into depression. One of my family members became depressed because she didn't think she was good enough as a parent to raise her children when in reality she was an excellent parent and role-model, before she was depressed. Is she stupid or worthless as a person for not realizing this and getting out of her depression right away? Heck no.

Learn some damn empathy.
 

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You should read The Awakening by Kate Chopin if you get the chance. :)
I think everyone should express how they really feel, positive and negative. That doesn't mean neglecting responsibilities you've willingly agreed to, but I don't think anybody should have to pretend to be happy if they aren't. We should all value truth and ourselves. I believe life exists for more than itself, but not to sacrifice to a system. To create something that is an actual expression of it. I think it's very possible to express ourselves honestly without burdening anyone else. Depression is a real condition and these people can be helped. No one should just keep suffering if they don't have to. Would you say someone with OCD should just stop acting on their compulsions? Just stop thinking about their obsessions? Should someone with Schizophrenia ignore their delusions? Pretend they don't see monsters trying to kill them? What should someone with Downs Syndrome do? If people could will away mental illnesses, I guarantee you they would.
 

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I personally realized that my tolerance level for people sobbing around is very low. It is a sense of discomfort around a person as if you are drowning with him/her resulting in a stress and evasion of that person. These people don't listen to sound advice and a logical approach to the solution of their oh-so serious problems, you'd almost think they developed a liking in being depressed, using arguments about their oh-so terrible environment and conidtions they have to live in.
AGREE.

I know they hate it being said to them, but why the fuck can't depressives just cheer the fuck up?!

I really do thoroughly agree that depressive types are far too full of self-pity and it just appears to be such pointless aggrandisement of the most petty issues.

So actually yeah I think the attitude of your country is correct. People who act like that are just judging themselves against typically materialistic and narcissistic standards.

There's also the chemical version of depression, where people lack seratonin or whatever. I think that's real. But the difference is that people with that kind of depression don't actually sob or moan about anything, they are just innately unhappy. I do feel sorry for them, actually.

However I think the vast majority of unhappy people are actually just suffering 'first world problems'.
 

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People just need to snap out of the vicious spiral of self-pity, especially when they have kids to take care of? Or do you disagree? Because you are special and need special attendance to your special little needs?
Yeah, "snap out if it" is a new one. No one has ever before given that advice, nor have anyone ever tried it. The cure for depression is finally found, and so easy, to think no one never thought about it before!
A nobel price is awaiting you my friend. Hear my words.

Tomorrow I'll tell my friend to snap out of the wheelchair, maybe it's a universal cure.
 

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Or do you disagree? Because you are special and need special attendance to your special little needs?

I personally realized that my tolerance level for people sobbing around is very low. It is a sense of discomfort around a person as if you are drowning with him/her resulting in a stress and evasion of that person. These people don't listen to sound advice and a logical approach to the solution of their oh-so serious problems, you'd almost think they developed a liking in being depressed, using arguments about their oh-so terrible environment and conidtions they have to live in.
I would say I have more respect for those that can bear their own emotions without attempting to garner sympathy. I'm sympathetic to those who I can see are obviously struggling, even so, my capacity for sympathy is fairly low. Overall I'm much more capable empathy than sympathy (but, surely that's true for everyone).

I think I'm one of those comfortably depressed people. I've never sought counseling concerning my depression or even told any of my close family or friends. I don't feel the need to burden them with a problem that they weren't the direct cause of and wouldn't be able to solve in any case. I'll rather just deal with it.

I've rarely found that speaking about my emotions solves anything.

Some clarifications:
- My depression isn't a result of me being dissatisfied with my enviroment, lifestyle etc.
- I've never found being depressed to impede my ability to think logically, only make me less motivated to bother making it evident.
- My depression hasn't resulted in me becoming any more emotionally unstable.
- I don't attempt to make it apparent that I'm depressed because that would seem, to me, to be pity mongering.
- If anything you're intolerant views on depression make me depressed.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You should read The Awakening by Kate Chopin if you get the chance. :)
I think everyone should express how they really feel, positive and negative. That doesn't mean neglecting responsibilities you've willingly agreed to, but I don't think anybody should have to pretend to be happy if they aren't. We should all value truth and ourselves. I believe life exists for more than itself, but not to sacrifice to a system. To create something that is an actual expression of it. I think it's very possible to express ourselves honestly without burdening anyone else. Depression is a real condition and these people can be helped. No one should just keep suffering if they don't have to. Would you say someone with OCD should just stop acting on their compulsions? Just stop thinking about their obsessions? Should someone with Schizophrenia ignore their delusions? Pretend they don't see monsters trying to kill them? What should someone with Downs Syndrome do? If people could will away mental illnesses, I guarantee you they would.
These conditions are in a completely different ballpark, they don't even come close to depression and I am not sure why people like you and @MoltenHorse are using them as argument. It's condescending for the sake of your sense of wrongplaced political correctness.

Depression is real, but it is often the product of your own undoing and you can often fix it yourself without the need of a shrimp.


Depression could certainly be a front for this type of thinking or behavior.

Of course depressed people can't think logically, they are depressed. Depression takes psychological analysis and counseling to get through. Most people that are depressed can't get out of it on their own.

If someone is depressed and they have kids to take care of they might actually go further down into depression. One of my family members became depressed because she didn't think she was good enough as a parent to raise her children when in reality she was an excellent parent and role-model, before she was depressed. Is she stupid or worthless as a person for not realizing this and getting out of her depression right away? Heck no.

Learn some damn empathy.
''If someone is depressed and they have kids to take care of they might actually go further down into depression.''


''Of course depressed people can't think logically ''



Depression takes psychological analysis and counseling to get through.
All they want(excluding real and rare cases of depression) is their needs to be fulfilled, re-confirming their sense of self-importance that is. Your family member seems like a person with zero self-reflection to me, yes, she may be nice, but thinking she isn't good enough as a parent to raise her children? Nah, that probably is not the truth behind the matter. If she truly thought she was not good enough as a parent, she would need to have the children placed as no.1 top priority.

Seeing how she got ''depressed'', you imply that she is not an excellent parent and role-model anymore, therefore neglecting her kids in one way or another. This means that from the perspective of the parent, the kids are NOT no.1 priority, since a parent would rather go obsessive-compulsive rather than depressed striving to accomplish this crucial no.1 task. Ofcourse this is just an assumption, but based on the logic stated above I will leave you with the wisdom that people rarely reveal their true humane but egocentric motivations. Some PR-marketing such as ''caring for the kids'' would indeed sell well @ the family, resulting in flattery and how ''good you are'' because let's face it, people like being flattered by praising their qualities.

As you can see from the text above, your story can be interpreted in various ways. Having dealt with multiple, more severe cases of depression in my environment, i'd say my tears are dried up so-to-speak and I cannot allow myself to be bullshitted any longer.

These people are perfectly capable in thinking logically, they just rust into a certain angle of perspective which may not be that healthy for them. They allow themselves to be deluded and they wallow in it at the expense of others.

I would say I have more respect for those that can bear their own emotions without attempting to garner sympathy. I'm sympathetic to those who I can see are obviously struggling, even so, my capacity for sympathy is fairly low. Overall I'm much more capable empathy than sympathy (but, surely that's true for everyone).

I think I'm one of those comfortably depressed people. I've never sought counseling concerning my depression or even told any of my close family or friends. I don't feel the need to burden them with a problem that they weren't the direct cause of and wouldn't be able to solve in any case. I'll rather just deal with it.

I've rarely found that speaking about my emotions solves anything.

Some clarifications:
- My depression isn't a result of me being dissatisfied with my enviroment, lifestyle etc.
- I've never found being depressed to impede my ability to think logically, only make me less motivated to bother making it evident.
- My depression hasn't resulted in me becoming any more emotionally unstable.
- I don't attempt to make it apparent that I'm depressed because that would seem, to me, to be pity mongering.
- If anything you're intolerant views on depression make me depressed.

Yeah I know that feel. I respect people that carry their burden without encumbering others with it. The hardest part is the loss of motivation, but that is something entirely controlled by you. People of this kind ain't depressed in my opinion, they just lack a raison d'etre/sense of purpose, which is one of the effects this materialistic world has on the masses.
- If anything you're intolerant views on depression make me depressed.
What happened to the strong silent type?
 

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We have a general concensus in my country that (mild) depression is often caused by being a self-centered egocentrist combined with an apathetic attitude towards the needs of others.

Do you agree? People just need to snap out of the vicious spiral of self-pity, especially when they have kids to take care of? Or do you disagree? Because you are special and need special attendance to your special little needs?
Every ego has the very same root as any other, it just manifests in a different way. Do you recognize your own egoic patterns? Why are they better than any other? In the superficial layers of human interaction, existence is loathsome to say the least. The ego ties in with it being born out of thought and of mind, and an identification with mind turns, in varying degrees, reality into abstraction. There is in most people's head no break from the voices, reality is thus turned into abstraction. The menu of a dining place is as much food as thought is reality. Thus the reality seems pale because they are not actually observing reality, the same lack they would experience as if they would eat a dollar bill - just their own duality, veil of maya or w/e you wish to call it.

Identification at any level is bound to cause disturbances within individuals (and collectives).

sly said:
I personally realized that my tolerance level for people sobbing around is very low. It is a sense of discomfort around a person as if you are drowning with him/her resulting in a stress and evasion of that person. These people don't listen to sound advice and a logical approach to the solution of their oh-so serious problems, you'd almost think they developed a liking in being depressed, using arguments about their oh-so terrible environment and conidtions they have to live in.
Why don't snap out of the drowning feeling? LOL. Your reaction to his problems, your opinions on him, is just judgment on yourself.
 

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These conditions are in a completely different ballpark, they don't even come close to depression and I am not sure why people like you and @MoltenHorse are using them as argument. It's condescending for the sake of your sense of wrongplaced political correctness.

Depression is real, but it is often the product of your own undoing and you can often fix it yourself without the need of a shrimp.
Those conditions vary in severity, as does depression. My point wasn't about severity, but that a person cannot will away a mental condition. If you are talking about a state that can be overcome by willpower alone I think you should use a word other than depression. Keep in mind also that there are different kinds of depression. Should someone with postpartum depression just get over it on her own, risking the life of her child? I'm not trying to compare mild forms of depression to severe conditions and I certainly don't want you to feel condescended to. I'm only trying to get you to see that depression can be very severe. Someone with manic depression is at a very high risk for suicide. This isn't because they aren't trying hard enough not to want to kill themselves. Some people have mild depression, some people only get depressed when the weather is bad, some people have periods of depression, and some suffer with it constantly. It's up to their doctor and themselves to decide how severe their condition is and what the treatment should be. What makes you feel so qualified to decide this for them?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Every ego has the very same root as any other, it just manifests in a different way. Do you recognize your own egoic patterns? Why are they better than any other? In the superficial layers of human interaction, existence is loathsome to say the least. The ego ties in with it being born out of thought and of mind, and an identification with mind turns, in varying degrees, reality into abstraction. There is in most people's head no break from the voices, reality is thus turned into abstraction. The menu of a dining place is as much food as thought is reality. Thus the reality seems pale because they are not actually observing reality, the same lack they would experience as if they would eat a dollar bill - just their own duality, veil of maya or w/e you wish to call it.
>Existence is more than loathsome
>Reality is pale

Your opinion on me, is just judgement on yourself. By the way, do you recognize your own egoic patterns?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Those conditions vary in severity, as does depression. My point wasn't about severity, but that a person cannot will away a mental condition. If you are talking about a state that can be overcome by willpower alone I think you should use a word other than depression. Keep in mind also that there are different kinds of depression. Should someone with postpartum depression just get over it on her own, risking the life of her child? I'm not trying to compare mild forms of depression to severe conditions and I certainly don't want you to feel condescended to. I'm only trying to get you to see that depression can be very severe. Someone with manic depression is at a very high risk for suicide. This isn't because they aren't trying hard enough not to want to kill themselves. Some people have mild depression, some people only get depressed when the weather is bad, some people have periods of depression, and some suffer with it constantly. It's up to their doctor and themselves to decide how severe their condition is and what the treatment should be. What makes you feel so qualified to decide this for them?
If you read my previous posts, I excluded rare and real depressions(i.e those that spring from neuro-biological imbalances and severely traumatic experiences) from those that are ''comfortably depressed''.


The majority of ''depressed'' people just need to be bitch slapped to snap out of it. That will help. Absolutely.

My friend was talking bullshit about being depressed, I beat him up and offered to end his life for him. Miraculously, he wisened up and got healed.
 

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>Existence is more than loathsome
>Reality is pale

Your opinion on me, is just judgement on yourself. By the way, do you recognize your own egoic patterns?
What do you mean? According to my mind's subjective judgment, existence is loathsome, pale. Objectively of course it isn't. When labeling and judgment ceases, the gap between reality and the experiencer of reality narrows, until there is no separation.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
What do you mean?
I was asking that myself when you pointed to ''judgement on myself'' in your previous post.


As you can see, it does not make sense if the author doesn't understand his own logic, so keep it practical, straightforward and concrete.
 

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I was asking that myself when you pointed to ''judgement on myself'' in your previous post.


As you can see, it does not make sense if the author doesn't understand his own logic, so keep it practical, straightforward and concrete.
I understand the concepts I provided, but not what you were implying.
 

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These conditions are in a completely different ballpark, they don't even come close to depression and I am not sure why people like you and @MoltenHorse are using them as argument.
Where in my post do you see me mentioning "certain" conditions?
I'm mentioning depression, as that's the thread is about:
Yeah, "snap out if it" is a new one. No one has ever before given that advice, nor have anyone ever tried it. The cure for depression is finally found, and so easy, to think no one never thought about it before!
A nobel price is awaiting you my friend. Hear my words.

Tomorrow I'll tell my friend to snap out of the wheelchair, maybe it's a universal cure.
Yeah I also mentioned wheelchair, but sarcastic point-making remarks doesn't count.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Where in my post do you see me mentioning "certain" conditions?
I'm mentioning depression, as that's the thread is about:
It is a container term for the conditions mentioned by both of you.

To make sure you understand:
Banana+ apple + banana = fruit
You: hurrdurr, did you see me mention ''fruit''?
Me: Fruit is a container term for the yummy food mentioned by you and the other one.

Yeah I also mentioned wheelchair, but sarcastic point-making remarks doesn't count.
Ofcourse it doesn't, because at this point, your stupid comment is biting you in the ass and we should change the rules mid-game a little, because hey, it was sarcasm right?
 

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It is a container term for the conditions mentioned by both of you.

To make sure you understand:
Banana+ apple + banana = fruit
You: hurrdurr, did you see me mention ''fruit''?
Me: Fruit is a container term for the yummy food mentioned by you and the other one.
Aha, you mean you're tired of people who are sad and down? Not people who are depressed as you wrote in the start post and thread subject field.
Banana + Apple =/= Apple

Still, for people who just feeling under the weather, "snap out of it" as useless help for them as for a depressed person. No one would be unhappy except some really extreme people, and the psychopharmaca industry wouldn't be a multi billion dollar industry.

Ofcourse it doesn't, because at this point, your stupid comment is biting you in the ass and we should change the rules mid-game a little, because hey, it was sarcasm right?
I feel no teeth in my cheeks. Just wanted to make sure you didn't believe getting your broken legs back was that easy. Alas, the same as for mental states.
 
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