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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Marina Diamandis apparently created Electra Heart in a very different spirit than Elizabeth Grant created Lana del Rey, though they're apparently friends, and Electra Heart was released the same year as Born to Die (2012). Both make observations about American cultural archetypes.

But Electra Heart is meant to be completely shadow, snide, or rejected parts of Marina, and the dark side of American culture, Electra is a mean narcissistic invulnerable diva in some tracks (like Bubble Gum Bitch and Primadonna)...Marina describes her as vacuous and actually "murdered" Electra in a 2013 video.

I actually wondered if Marina Diamandis is some kind of NT or NFJ...she makes some really great points about nasty parts of American culture and what it does to women to be restricted sexually by religious and cultural roles, and the subsequent rebellion that ensues (Madonna was part of the influence that went into Electra Heart)...personally I think it's her best album, I find the electropop catchy and some songs are really interesting (the verses in Homewrecker emulating some 50s manual on sexual proprietary and love) or beautiful (Starring Role is amazing, I also like Valley of the Dolls).

The concept does bug me a little, and she did receive uneven critical reviews on the album, partly snobbery against slick produced electropop, but partly because her mockery and blatant rejection of certain things is kind of annoying. Marina says Electra is everything she hates, but frankly Electra was visually more interesting than Marina in other incarnations, and in some songs like Lies or Starring Role methinks the lady doth protest too much, like she's ashamed of needing a man in any way, to the point I wondered how such a person could even be friends with Lana del Rey if the songs were meant in nearly complete irony or derision. ..I don't believe Marina is that filled with hate so it's a bit confusing. ..is Electra really everything she hates, or just also parts of herself she doesn't want to accept so projects on to others (stereotypes of American women in the media).

I wondered if she's an NJ that has an uncomfortable relationship to Se. I also wondered if she's actually Ne so Se just vexes her as a demonic or trickster function (trickster actually makes a lot of sense with the Electra alter ego) ...I also wondered if her feeling function is lower in her stacking, or if it's auxiliary, like in an INFJ, which would be why she's so socially concerned but almost glossing over it in favor of Ni/Ti or something.

I have no idea what her type is, but I like the album mostly, and the problems with it seems to be a product of her rejecting or projecting her Jungian shadow. Because I have a much easier time reconciling some of her "hated" parts in myself, I'm able to admit or embrace some of these archetypes she presents within my own self, while sharing her contempt for some of them.

Any thoughts, or is this album so old no one cares haha.
 

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@Thalassa

I think that the Electra Heart album is meant to represent a side of Marina that she desires to suppress, but I don't think she purposely chose imitate Lana's music. I recently watched her live interview over the FROOT album and I have to admit that I see her as an ISFP. You may disagree but it seems that her FROOT album gives off a lot of dominate Fi vibes.

Here's the interview. It's a bit long but I think that it really says a lot about her true character
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@Thalassa

I think that the Electra Heart album is meant to represent a side of Marina that she desires to suppress, but I don't think she purposely chose imitate Lana's music. I recently watched her live interview over the FROOT album and I have to admit that I see her as an ISFP. You may disagree but it seems that her FROOT album gives off a lot of dominate Fi vibes.

Here's the interview. It's a bit long but I think that it really says a lot about her true character
I wasn't suggesting that she copied Lana. More like they planned it, was my theory. But Lana is a more authentic expression, while Marina actually felt a need to symbolically kill her alter ego rather quickly.

The Electra Heart album has a kind of uber self consciousness to it that seems like something an NFJ would do, but I considered NT because of the insistence of being detached and ironic, it seemed kinda ENTP sort of.



I also considered her discomfort with Se. Maybe she's an INFP.

Electra Heart seems more like an ESFP than an ENTJ. Or an ESTP. A really narcissistic one, which has nothing to do type. She has a song on there about how to be a heartbreaker, and Bubblegum Bitch reminds me a bit of Amazing Amys cool girl trope if you read the novel Gone Girl, I actually has a moment of awe and admiration for Amy realizing that she had set Nick up until I realized how little empathy she had a few pages later. The Bubblegum Bitch is a similar trope.

I don't know. I thought it was a Jungian shadow possibly. I will have to watch her interview there. I don't know a lot about her, honestly.
 

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I wasn't suggesting that she copied Lana. More like they planned it, was my theory. But Lana is a more authentic expression, while Marina actually felt a need to symbolically kill her alter ego rather quickly.

The Electra Heart album has a kind of uber self consciousness to it that seems like something an NFJ would do, but I considered NT because of the insistence of being detached and ironic, it seemed kinda ENTP sort of.



I also considered her discomfort with Se. Maybe she's an INFP.

Electra Heart seems more like an ESFP than an ENTJ. Or an ESTP. A really narcissistic one, which has nothing to do type. She has a song on there about how to be a heartbreaker, and Bubblegum Bitch reminds me a bit of Amazing Amys cool girl trope if you read the novel Gone Girl, I actually has a moment of awe and admiration for Amy realizing that she had set Nick up until I realized how little empathy she had a few pages later. The Bubblegum Bitch is a similar trope.

I don't know. I thought it was a Jungian shadow possibly. I will have to watch her interview there. I don't know a lot about her, honestly.

Yeah Electra Heart definitely makes me think of ESFPs! It's almost like The Family Jewels and Electra heart albums are journeys in Marina's life which lead up to FROOT (which is likely going to be her last album)
She definitely could be an INFP, maybe even an INFJ.
Either way, I think it's good that she shows her true colors as well as her alter egos
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah Electra Heart definitely makes me think of ESFPs! It's almost like The Family Jewels and Electra heart albums are journeys in Marina's life which lead up to FROOT (which is likely going to be her last album)
She definitely could be an INFP, maybe even an INFJ.
Either way, I think it's good that she shows her true colors as well as her alter egos
My favorite song from her first album is definitely Girls, though there are a couple other I like. ..on FROOT the song that sounds best to me, which is just plain incredible is I'm a Ruin...otherwise it just kind of sounds generic new wave-y, not necessarily in a good way, almost like the B side to an album made between 79-85, with some obvious electropop still thrown in...I honestly don't see how she deviated all that extremely on Electra Heart except that some tracks may have been more polished. ..but overall I still think Electra Heart was best in terms of the visual presentation and concept, I like to listen to most of the album.

Who she "really is" is pretty debatable, she seems a bit more like Electra in some ways than she apparently admitted, I think some aspects like the blatant narcissistic stuff was exaggerated but not a whole lot else. Maybe just denied or uncomfortable parts of self. She asked her manager if she could be someone else entirely, and I. ..I don't know so much about that. Especially listening to a song like Blue on FROOT.

I have a personal bias for Electra Heart, just personal opinion.
 

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i love electra heart, i think it's hands-down one of the best and most underrated pop albums to come out in the last ten years or so. i also agree that visually it is her most interesting era, and i really liked the conceptual music video series that went with it, as well as the fashion.

Yeah Electra Heart definitely makes me think of ESFPs! It's almost like The Family Jewels and Electra heart albums are journeys in Marina's life which lead up to FROOT (which is likely going to be her last album)
She definitely could be an INFP, maybe even an INFJ.
Either way, I think it's good that she shows her true colors as well as her alter egos
marina said that the family jewels was "an album about what not to be," which i find interesting considering the fact that electra heart was also sort of written in that spirit. i've read a lot of her interviews leading up to/after the release of froot, and it's apparently supposed to be the first album she's written that's really about HER as a person, not a character or a concept she wants to explore. i think froot is a fantastic album as well, the whole thing really resonates with me and i feel like marina and i are in very, very similar phases of our lives based on the themes she touches on.

as far as what electra heart actually... is, i think it's sort of supposed to be a way for her to explore different "archetypes" of stereotypical femininity. you have the weepy and vulnerable teenage girl, the cold, jaded heartbreaker, the dissatisfied housewife, and the "homewrecker" - each of these phases of electra heart's life represent a negative stereotype, and the songs themselves give those stereotypes nuance and depth. i don't think it's a personal album for her at all (which is where it differs from lana's work), just her playing dress-up and exploring these concepts that she finds interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i love electra heart, i think it's hands-down one of the best and most underrated pop albums to come out in the last ten years or so. i also agree that visually it is her most interesting era, and i really liked the conceptual music video series that went with it, as well as the fashion.



marina said that the family jewels was "an album about what not to be," which i find interesting considering the fact that electra heart was also sort of written in that spirit. i've read a lot of her interviews leading up to/after the release of froot, and it's apparently supposed to be the first album she's written that's really about HER as a person, not a character or a concept she wants to explore. i think froot is a fantastic album as well, the whole thing really resonates with me and i feel like marina and i are in very, very similar phases of our lives based on the themes she touches on.

as far as what electra heart actually... is, i think it's sort of supposed to be a way for her to explore different "archetypes" of stereotypical femininity. you have the weepy and vulnerable teenage girl, the cold, jaded heartbreaker, the dissatisfied housewife, and the "homewrecker" - each of these phases of electra heart's life represent a negative stereotype, and the songs themselves give those stereotypes nuance and depth. i don't think it's a personal album for her at all (which is where it differs from lana's work), just her playing dress-up and exploring these concepts that she finds interesting.
Yes she doesn't have that read my diary soul baring quality to her music, especially not on Electra Heart and one of the reasons NT or INFJ made more sense to me was that lack of need for subjective personal lens, to be conceptual and removed, but probably honestly parts of herself still sneaking in. I mean if FROOT is supposed to really be "her" I might go INFJ rather than NT, for sure. I can totally see too on Family Jewels where songs like Robot, idk, seems pretty INFJ to me.
 

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Yes she doesn't have that read my diary soul baring quality to her music, especially not on Electra Heart and one of the reasons NT or INFJ made more sense to me was that lack of need for subjective personal lens, to be conceptual and removed, but probably honestly parts of herself still sneaking in. I mean if FROOT is supposed to really be "her" I might go INFJ rather than NT, for sure. I can totally see too on Family Jewels where songs like Robot, idk, seems pretty INFJ to me.
i'm still learning about the functions and all, but i've always, always gotten an INFJ vibe from her for the reasons you stated. i don't think she's an INFP. i've seen her typed by others as all kinds of things, i think she's just a tough one to type.

"you might think i'm one thing, but i am another
you can't call my bluff, time to back off, motherfucker" :p

 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i'm still learning about the functions and all, but i've always, always gotten an INFJ vibe from her for the reasons you stated. i don't think she's an INFP. i've seen her typed by others as all kinds of things, i think she's just a tough one to type.

"you might think i'm one thing, but i am another
you can't call my bluff, time to back off, motherfucker" :p



I'm starting to think ISTP is also a possibility. Her contempt for Se could be a kind of pseudo contempt or self hatred, because honestly listening to some of the lyrics on FROOT she seems kind of selfish, just as selfish as her Electra Heart character. ..but without the overt narcissism. She seems pretty confrontational too, there's an overall idea of her being kind of "fuck off"...I'm really rethinking INFJ for what does not seem to be good Fe, frankly. But an ISTP could also have an INFJ vibe.

I mean listening to the entire Electra Heart album, with song Girls, and certain songs on FROOT like I'm a Ruin, Blue and this kind of "fuck off" song....maybe she is an ISTP. It explains the sense of emotional distance she gives off.

Or I could go back to ENTP. I really should watch the video QuiteCharmed posted. I like trying to type people from their music.
 
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Where has it been said they're friends/influenced each other in any way?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Where has it been said they're friends/influenced each other in any way?
I vividly remember the 2012 interview with Lana, because I was horrified by the Paris Hilton orange jumpsuit, and had loved her so solidly after seeing her as a You Tube star for You Can Be the Boss and Kinda Outta Luck. In that interview she claimed she and Marina would be friends no matter how famous they got. I have no fan fiction ulterior motives, so I am not remembering this falsely, I didn't even like Marina that much until Electra Heart and don't think she's equal to Lana. She's a good musician but I don't even identify with Marina in a similar manner or have any weird ideas about the two of them.

There's also Twitter posts they have about each other and photos.

Photograph Forehead Retro style Lip Smile

Clothing Dress Shoulder Formal wear Fashion

If they aren't friends, they apparently dated.
 
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