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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't necessarily relate to her, and I know she's always typed as a J, usually infj, but everything about her seems so stereotypical isfp to me.

The way she thinks the solution to any problem is to remove herself
Her inability to communicate with the person she cares about the most
The way she is so live and let live until someone crosses her values (like getting engaged to a stranger)
How poorly she expresses those values
The toll that compromising herself takes on her
How naturally she demonstrates skill in a physical activity when she's not overthinking it
The aesthetics of her new palace and outfit ;)
Pretty much all the lyrics to Let it Go
How firmly in the moment she is

etc etc

Anyway, I'm sure I'm just projecting, but I'm curious to see if anyone else sees Fi Se in her.
 

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I thought she was an ISTJ. Si users are also big into aesthetics. I've not seen the movie so my word carries little weight, but I often see her typed ISTJ and I can see why (Fi values with Si aesthetics).
 

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Wait, what the fuck? I'm confused. :shocked:

Isn't Elsa that one, white fuck? Or are we talking about the fire crotch?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Yeah, I've read a bunch of threads here and other places typing her as infj, intj, isfj, and istj... occasionally as an infp. I was just curious to see if any other Fi Se users saw familiar traits.
 

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@Lhachwen I realize this may be pointless now but ISFP seems to work because of the functions. Si and Fi are big reasons Elsa is typed ISTJ so naturally ISFP fits along side it. BUT I still retain she is a J as well; Frozen Fever makes it rather obvious.
 

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Seems quite N and J to me. But maybe feels more INFJ than INTJ. Ah, tough to choose between the two, but her Fe causes her pain as she realizes what she's doing to others and how others feel. Definitely a Ni/Se user ... I don't see ISTJ. She's too fluid. Ni/Ti loop?

ISFPs usually have a natural flow and energy to them, and I don't get that from Elsa at all. But it's been a while since I've seen it. I'm not really a Disney Princesses kinda guy. :D
 

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Seems quite N and J to me. But maybe feels more INFJ than INTJ. Ah, tough to choose between the two, but her Fe causes her pain as she realizes what she's doing to others and how others feel. Definitely a Ni/Se user ... I don't see ISTJ. She's too fluid. Ni/Ti loop?

ISFPs usually have a natural flow and energy to them, and I don't get that from Elsa at all. But it's been a while since I've seen it. I'm not really a Disney Princesses kinda guy. :D
Hmm, I can certainly see where INFJ is coming from; but a Ni Ti loop? How does Elsa ever demonstrate that? In a Ni Ti loop, a person generally will overanalyze things, considering multiple possibilities at once. It is based more on logic and rationality, denying emotions. But Elsa doesn't really analyze things, does she? Look at times where she was practically GIVEN the opportunity to analyze: Anna begging Elsa to come home, work things out together (Elsa does not once consider this possibility, immediately shutting her out again), Hans begs Elsa to try and stop the winter (her response? "I can't." And she asks to go, breaks out, "no other way.") Pretty contradictory behavior for someone in an analytical loop. She doesn't seem to be one as a child either; she does not question her parents, or consider Anna and her ever more desperate attempts to get her attention, and does not even come to Anna after their parents death. All of this behavior throughout the film makes it seem pretty clear she is not in a Ni Ti loop; she could still be an INFJ, But if we're talking about loops here, seems to me she would be in a Si Fi loop. A Si Fi loop happens when you rely too heavily on the past/known experiences and you hold in your personal feelings, too connected to them. Inferior Ne makes you afraid of the future and what might happen, in the case of ISTJ. You can see someone explain why Elsa is in a Si Fi loop here, actually, and makes the point better than I could. If it's okay to ask, how do you describe ISTJs or... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

As for my Ni Ti reference: What would a Ni-Ti loop look like? - MBTI in Real Life
 

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Hmm, I can certainly see where INFJ is coming from; but a Ni Ti loop? How does Elsa ever demonstrate that? In a Ni Ti loop, a person generally will overanalyze things, considering multiple possibilities at once. It is based more on logic and rationality, denying emotions. But Elsa doesn't really analyze things, does she? Look at times where she was practically GIVEN the opportunity to analyze: Anna begging Elsa to come home, work things out together (Elsa does not once consider this possibility, immediately shutting her out again), Hans begs Elsa to try and stop the winter (her response? "I can't." And she asks to go, breaks out, "no other way.") Pretty contradictory behavior for someone in an analytical loop. She doesn't seem to be one as a child either; she does not question her parents, or consider Anna and her ever more desperate attempts to get her attention, and does not even come to Anna after their parents death. All of this behavior throughout the film makes it seem pretty clear she is not in a Ni Ti loop; she could still be an INFJ, But if we're talking about loops here, seems to me she would be in a Si Fi loop. A Si Fi loop happens when you rely too heavily on the past/known experiences and you hold in your personal feelings, too connected to them. Inferior Ne makes you afraid of the future and what might happen, in the case of ISTJ. You can see someone explain why Elsa is in a Si Fi loop here, actually, and makes the point better than I could. If it's okay to ask, how do you describe ISTJs or... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

As for my Ni Ti reference: What would a Ni-Ti loop look like? - MBTI in Real Life
Hmmm. I think you're probably right in that I'm off on it being a loop. It was a bit of a guess/afterthought, and I didn't really think it through.

I know a fair number of ISTJs in my family and regard them with a mix of fondness and frustration. :D They are very stable and responsible people and don't deserve their bad rep, as they are smarter and more decent people than many (even most) N's believe them to be. The ones that have developed some sense of tertiary Fi are fairly well-rounded, but if not they can be static, unadventurous, and stubborn people. In either case, they do see the past and their stability not as something that confines them but as something that defines their identity and brings them joy. They look forward to their annual rituals and holidays or their weekly golf game, and they show a deep appreciation in the little things or when a person or event meets their expectations.

I can see how someone would come up with ISTJ, but I don't personally get that sense that Elsa treasures or connects with her past and she doesn't remind me of ISTJs I know. I don't see her as a strong Si user. Rather she wants to break free of that and sees it as confining. I do see very strong Ni in her complexity and almost a sense of magic in how she uncovers deeper meanings and in her sense of self-discovery. An Fi user might embrace her identity even in the early stages, but she keeps herself away to protect others. INFJs often see themselves in that protector role, and I can see how INFJs would quite strongly relate to Elsa. She handles herself decently in the action scenes, which suggests Se in the ego block, but her phsyical nature is not as flowing, direct, or natural as an ISFP would be.

But again, I've only seen this once and that's my impression and memory. Incredibly complex characters, especially those with traumatic childhoods, are difficult to type. I can tell that you obviously love this film, and I think it's great when people are passionate about the things they love. You're very knowledgable about the film and I respect your well-formed opinions about it. :)

Oh, and you're right ... "Let it Go" is an Fi song for sure!
 

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@Sidewinder Yeah, I am a bit of an animation nerd:) Though I must admit in all honesty my knowledge on this film (and many others) comes a lot from my younger sisters, my INFJ sister especially! I can definitely see the INFJ connection with Elsa as I am close to my sis and in a few ways she is similar to Elsa. I like your points on Se and Fi (thanks for not saying T/Te doms would not try to protect others/ have no feelings; I myself am one and find it to be a weird stereotype) and you have a well balanced opinion; especially for someone who only saw the film once!
 

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(thanks for not saying T/Te doms would not try to protect others/ have no feelings; I myself am one and find it to be a weird stereotype)
Yeah, I find that odd too. Our armed forces and police/fire departments are filled with STJs, and it's absolutely their job to protect others! The ISTJ guys I know have very strong feelings on the things that are most important to them, and can be surprisingly emotional at times.
 

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The problem with Elsa is that something traumatic happened to her as a child--she almost killed her sister. And she did it because her powers were greater than she expected... I don't know how much that sort of trauma would affect a child, but as having undergone my own trauma, I know that I am different than I would have been, had I not. Also, people treated _me_ differently because of it. I was ISFP before and after, but still, what you see today is, in a sense, a distortion--a distortion, the extent of which, I was even unaware of for decades. It took another trauma to draw the hidden side of my maladaptive habits, and to remind me that some things I thought I was over, I wasn't really. I had just created adapted behaviors or attitudes that weren't necessarily the most helpful.

For Elsa, think of it this way... What if she was, in fact, a functional extravert? What if her leading function were Se or Fe or Ne? The trauma drew her into herself, which would, in fact, cause her to live in her shadow, either as an Ni or Ti or Si-dominant--but not really, because the shadow is never the same as the dominant--it is like anti-matter or the evil shadow twin. So, it might be easier to look for her shadow function at work. INXJ or IXTP or ISXJ. But if we assume she's a natural feeler, due to other aspects of her behavior, etc. then that leaves us INTJ or IXTP or ISTJ.

On the other hand, it's worth keeping in mind that she's a fictional character. And it's a child's Disney movie. This means that personality is malleable--made to fit the needs of the movie or fit whatever the writers want. So, in one scene, she may exhibit Fe characteristics, and in another Fi. It may not be possible to truly type her, or even to fit her into one of the four temperaments. In the end, that may be the real reason she's not typable, as are many fictional characters, in particular ones that come from stories that are more plot-driven than character-driven (which is where Disney movies fit), and where the writers want characters to have universal appeal. They write a little of everybody into the character, so everyone can relate... It is, after all, all about the money. ;-) (am I a cynic or what?)
 

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On the other hand, it's worth keeping in mind that she's a fictional character. And it's a child's Disney movie. This means that personality is malleable--made to fit the needs of the movie or fit whatever the writers want. So, in one scene, she may exhibit Fe characteristics, and in another Fi. It may not be possible to truly type her, or even to fit her into one of the four temperaments. In the end, that may be the real reason she's not typable, as are many fictional characters, in particular ones that come from stories that are more plot-driven than character-driven (which is where Disney movies fit), and where the writers want characters to have universal appeal. They write a little of everybody into the character, so everyone can relate... It is, after all, all about the money. ;-) (am I a cynic or what?)
Yeah, it's kinda a fun thing that I only take partly seriously. I'm uncomfortable typing living people, so I try movie/TV/literary characters instead. You're right, there are a lot of competing influences on a movie ... especially an animated movie where the character is defined partly by the lead/character animator and partly by the director. However it's an art to have a character work within a plot and still have a consistent personality. I think "Mad Max" is an on-type ISTP. Joy from "Inside Out" is thoroughly ENFJ. But as you mention, the characters are under a lot of pressure or in extreme situations, so we often see inferior or shadow functions come out. And if we take into account "unhealthiness" or "immature" types it becomes almost impossible to be definitive.

Some movies are cash grabs, but I think a lot of creative types want to make good movies that also do good box office. Disney Animation/Pixar is actually good at that; good plots and good characters ... I'd consider them family movies more than kid's movies. "Inside Out", "Wall-E" or "Zootopia" can be enjoyed at a different level by adults.

I have a whole elaborate theory on the types of characters that appear in movies and why, but that's gonna pull this waaaaaay off topic. :D
 
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Elsa is definitely a Si-Fi looping ISTJ! I don't see how she's INFJ though? Whole different functions..
The best argument for Elsa as INFJ that I have read would be this one; it actually explains functions which is not done too often when Elsa INFJ is argued; it's at least worth a glance, let me know what you think. http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/874330-thoughts-queen-elsa.html I still say she is ISTJ and I think that if Elsa is going through a loop, it would very likely be a Si-Fi loop as you stated. For me ISTJ functions work well for Elsa but there have been many arguments.

@Sidewinder I would actually enjoy hearing your theory on the characters and MBTI correlation; that would start an interesting thread, I think. Let me know if you ever post about it, okay? :happy:
 

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The best argument for Elsa as INFJ that I have read would be this one; it actually explains functions which is not done too often when Elsa INFJ is argued; it's at least worth a glance, let me know what you think. http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/874330-thoughts-queen-elsa.html I still say she is ISTJ and I think that if Elsa is going through a loop, it would very likely be a Si-Fi loop as you stated. For me ISTJ functions work well for Elsa but there have been many arguments.

@Sidewinder I would actually enjoy hearing your theory on the characters and MBTI correlation; that would start an interesting thread, I think. Let me know if you ever post about it, okay? :happy:
I've been sitting here, trying hard to envision Elsa as having any kind of extraverting feelings, and I don't see it at all. Her approach is very Fi--hiding from her sister, even when she begs and pleads. Then running away when her magic is exposed... every step of the film, she doesn't show any interest in either how others feel, or in how to help others feel. It's very much a feeling perspective through a personal, subjective lens. And it's not a very good or healthy lens at that, so either inferior or weak Te or weak Fi. Take your pick.

But again, we come back to my previous post--it's almost impossible to type characters in such films. They're too plastic, for the sake of plot, which is what really matters to the filmmakers. :)
 

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I've been sitting here, trying hard to envision Elsa as having any kind of extraverting feelings, and I don't see it at all. Her approach is very Fi--hiding from her sister, even when she begs and pleads. Then running away when her magic is exposed... every step of the film, she doesn't show any interest in either how others feel, or in how to help others feel. It's very much a feeling perspective through a personal, subjective lens. And it's not a very good or healthy lens at that, so either inferior or weak Te or weak Fi. Take your pick.

But again, we come back to my previous post--it's almost impossible to type characters in such films. They're too plastic, for the sake of plot, which is what really matters to the filmmakers. :)
I completely agree with you, Fi seems very apparent and it really seems to be her struggle in the movie. I can see what you mean by plastic characters, but I like typing characters even though there is no way to get a perfect answer. Such is the way of the guess the type forum.
 

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@Sidewinder I would actually enjoy hearing your theory on the characters and MBTI correlation; that would start an interesting thread, I think. Let me know if you ever post about it, okay? :happy:
Sure thing! It's been idling round in my head. But I'll pull it together and probably post on the Myers-Briggs forum once I'm through a current busy stretch. :)

I'll have a look at the thread you mentioned too. The initial analysis looks very impressive!
 
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