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If you could only have one, would you prefer perfect Empathy or perfect Justice in the world?

By the word 'perfect', I mean people's skill of that trait in general. ie. a person who is perfectly skilled in Empathy/Justice
 

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How broadly are the two words/concepts being defined? I mean, are we talking about people behaving in a perfectly just way, or justice being perfectly enforced by law because everyone dealing in law is perfectly just (or better still enforced by nature - fork lightening striking at will). I take it we are referring to all people and not just ourselves.

Provide definitions, please.
 

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agreed, are we talking about justice as in the court system is infallible? Or are we talking about a universal law where everyone gets back what they put in?

If it's the latter then Justice. In that scenario you wouldn't NEED empathy, even if everyone thought of only themselves, people would still want to do "good" things because it was directly and immediately benefit themselves. Likewise, people would avoid doing "bad" things because they know they would be directly punished.
 

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A world with perfect empathy, or a world with perfect justice? Obviously, I'd take a world with perfect empathy, because nobody would avoid suffering in a world that was completely just.
and how would people avoid suffering with perfect empathy?

Empathy- the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Understanding and sharing feelings doesnt mean suffering would end, in fact, it could mean that suffering could spread like a wildfire, if everyone is perfectly sharing the same feelings.
 

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Perfect empathy, if truly perfect, would cause a person to feel exactly whatever physical or emotional harm s/he caused another, and also whatever pleasure or joy s/he caused. Perfect empathy would automatically create perfect justice, and it would have some additional perks that perfect justice wouldn't.
 

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and how would people avoid suffering with perfect empathy?

Empathy- the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Understanding and sharing feelings doesnt mean suffering would end, in fact, it could mean that suffering could spread like a wildfire, if everyone is perfectly sharing the same feelings.
Yes, but the likelihood of being the cause of someone else's suffering will be much, much less if you're already empathizing with them to a point where you can understand and feel their emotions almost automatically. The drive there will be to better each other's experience, and with time, things would even out at the greatest possible level of happiness.

On the other hand, a world of perfect justice will be largely punitive, and the focus will be on causing suffering, rather than preventing it. People may like the idea of punishing people they don't like, but they won't like the idea of being punished themselves; despite what they say, people don't want to get what they deserve, what they want... is to get what will make them happy.
 

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perfect justice would entail both punishment AND reward, as long as we are talking about Karmic justice, so not only would people want to avoid doing bad things for fear of being punished, they would also want to do good things because they know they will be rewarded in kind.

Perfect empathy though, only means that you will feel what others feel, if the source of pain is from an external/natural force, you would have no means of avoiding that pain, imagine the global sadness that would erupt from tsunamis and other such natural disasters. Not to mention the fact that just because you can feel an emotion does not mean that you are bound to act in accordance with that emotion.

People could still do terrible things to others due to anger or fear. An empathic society wouldn't end it. Neither would a perfectly just world, but in the end you would know that you got what you deserved.
 

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If you could only have one, would you prefer perfect Empathy or perfect Justice in the world?

By the word 'perfect', I mean people's skill of that trait in general. ie. a person who is perfectly skilled in Empathy/Justice
I do not like your avatar.

In your scenario every person has the maximum "ability" with justice/empathy.
Both justice and empathy can be ignored but you "feel bad" if you ignore empathy. This moral sanction would prevent lots of "evil".
Maximum justice hability for everyone would make courts of law also perfect. Making "evil" always punished "correctly" when it is "caught".
Your question comes down to:
Prevent most crimes or 100% correct punishment for the crimes that are known.
The logical answer is "empathy".
If we can prevent crimes we do not need perfect justice.

Am I making any sense?
 

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sense is being made, but empathy entails much more than just preventing crime, it would turn emotions into a rampant disease, every emotion spreading like wildfire, stub your toe? Everyone around you feels it, fail a test? Everyone is disappointed. Watch a horror movie? Everyone is scared.

And we haven't even gotten started on the rampant drug use perfect empathy would encourage.
 

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Empathy? Hmmmm. I don't think this is viable. Empathy for others is being able to lower and raise intelligence levels. There would be a hell of a lot of projection going on. I hate people feeling "sorry" for me when I'm OK. Touchy feely human existence. Fuck that.

Justice? Hmmmmm. I don't think this is viable either. Would justice involve death penalty and use of firearms? Would there be some magical forum which would metre out this justice? Common people do common things like shoot each other because they are scared. Common people do common things like scream in a mob with their pitchforks and torches for someone to suffer, for someone to die. People who hurt and rob others of their life savings get off in 2 years whilst an internet pirate can go away for 30 years. Will this be attended to? How will it be attended to? By the common people? Fuck that.

Humans are flawed and filled with cognitive dissonance. There aren't going to be any of these perfect ideas with perfect outcomes, even with a benevolent world dictator.

The ideas only work on smaller groups who are autonomous and like minded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I do not like your avatar.

In your scenario every person has the maximum "ability" with justice/empathy.
Both justice and empathy can be ignored but you "feel bad" if you ignore empathy. This moral sanction would prevent lots of "evil".
Maximum justice hability for everyone would make courts of law also perfect. Making "evil" always punished "correctly" when it is "caught".
Your question comes down to:
Prevent most crimes or 100% correct punishment for the crimes that are known.
The logical answer is "empathy".
If we can prevent crimes we do not need perfect justice.

Am I making any sense?
Justice in this sense is not a court action but rather what every individual practices. So your conclusions wouldn't be correct because we're not talking about a reactive force like a court.
 

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So then if we are talking about people practicing:
Justice- the quality of being fair and reasonable
and
Empathy-the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

I would say Perfect Justice trumps Perfect Empathy
If everyone does all things in accordance to what is most fair and most reasonable, you wouldn't have to worry about being able to understand someone else's feelings, because their feelings wouldn't be hurt by the action.
 

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Justice in this sense is not a court action but rather what every individual practices. So your conclusions wouldn't be correct because we're not talking about a reactive force like a court.
Your thought experiment is now fundamentally flawed with the conditions you've stipulated, but ignoring that, neither: The imperfect world is what makes it so perfect. /pseudo-philosophical-statement. :p
 

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This subject is flawed because you are leaving it to human minds to define and accept it.

What ever the definitions are, they do not consider cultural minds and views.
Lets not forget those stupid books that so many people follow.

Either way, no matter what you come up with some one will disagree and then will get followers.
Bringing us back to where we are now.
 

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sense is being made, but empathy entails much more than just preventing crime, it would turn emotions into a rampant disease, every emotion spreading like wildfire, stub your toe? Everyone around you feels it, fail a test? Everyone is disappointed. Watch a horror movie? Everyone is scared.

And we haven't even gotten started on the rampant drug use perfect empathy would encourage.
We would become a hive mind? Might not be as bad as it sounds.

Justice in this sense is not a court action but rather what every individual practices. So your conclusions wouldn't be correct because we're not talking about a reactive force like a court.
I don't understand.
aren't courts controlled by individuals? Individuals with maximum justice?

This subject is flawed because you are leaving it to human minds to define and accept it.

What ever the definitions are, they do not consider cultural minds and views.
Lets not forget those stupid books that so many people follow.

Either way, no matter what you come up with some one will disagree and then will get followers.
Bringing us back to where we are now.
I agree with you.
Justice is a very subjective concept.
That is one of the reasons that made me pick empathy.

We need a better DM.
 

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I rather go with justice that we have now over empathy.

It is easy to manipulate with empathy.
 
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