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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hie guys!
i'm an ENTP and i really have troubles to use my Fe function.
in fact i would like to know if somebody would like to help me to let me know how do you manage the Fe function.
Because, you guys are the experts at this function.
or may be, if you know some famous ENFJ who use pretty well his or her "Fe".
it would be very nice.:wink:
 

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The only way an ENTJ is going to use Fe, is if Te-Fi tell's them too :p Harmony has it's benefits after all.
It can be good practice to understand the people around you, to better equip yourself to make judgements.
 

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Heh. Expecting an ENTJ to explain Fe is like asking an ENFJ to explain Te ;)

Might as well read the text book yourself because that's all you're gonna get :p

What you can do is learn to trust reason more and dig even deeper towards the truth without getting lost in all the possibilities.

As an ENTP, your Fe is in the tertiary position which may lead to relatively aggressive judgements about people's feelings or urges to fight dirty with emotional manipulation. To develop it, you'll have to find that kind of primal urge, and learn to trust other people's intentions as well.

If you have trouble with this, then learn to accept that some of your behaviour will have a negative impact on someone else's feelings which could mean curtailing argumentative tendencies once in a while.

Here's something I found about Tertiary Fe [According to Lenore Thomson's Tertiary Temptation] that you might find useful.

Tertiary Fe (ExTP): "I'll lay a guilt trip on this guy, tell him all I've done for him and suggest that the next time he's in a tough spot, he might need my help. Well, hmm, ok, I'll be all friendly. I'll smile, tell him I like him, what a great guy he is. Well, hmm, that's not working, either. Ok, I'll make him look bad in the eyes of his friends." The Secondary Function (Ti) would say: "What is the truth? Not what people would agree is true, not an angle on the truth for making it palatable to someone, but the whole, honest truth?"
So .. in other words, filter the inherent, more primal urges of Fe through Ti?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The only way an ENTJ is going to use Fe, is if Te-Fi tell's them too :p Harmony has it's benefits after all.
It can be good practice to understand the people around you, to better equip yourself to make judgements.
Thanks! i made a mistake. I wanted to write “ENFJ” but instead I wrote ENTJ. I will edit my post to change that.

As an ENTP, your Fe is in the tertiary position which may lead to relatively aggressive judgements about people's feelings or urges to fight dirty with emotional manipulation. To develop it, you'll have to find that kind of primal urge, and learn to trust other people's intentions as well.

If you have trouble with this, then learn to accept that some of your behaviour will have a negative impact on someone else's feelings which could mean curtailing argumentative tendencies once in a while.

Here's something I found about Tertiary Fe [According to Lenore Thomson's Tertiary Temptation] that you might find useful.

So .. in other words, filter the inherent, more primal urges of Fe through Ti?
Thanks! You’re right.
I tend to make aggressive judgments about people’s feelings, but I don’t feel the urge to manipulate emotionally.
In fact, sometimes I don’t understand people’s feelings (and sometimes I don’t know mines). I mean; I don’t understand why people get angry against me when I don’t insult them.
For exemple: Sometimes I just say what I did or what I think about diferent topics (like what I think about life and other things), and people get really mad with me. And I don’t understand there behavior.
That’s why I tend to think they are crazy or unrational or weak. But deep inside me, I know they are not, but I tend to make that judgment, unfortunately.

I was thinking too…
I’m not good at talking about things I don’t care, and having fun with people. I mean; I feel the need to have fun with people, to play with them; I think it’s because of my “Fe” and my “P”.
But most of the time I fail.
Everytime I try to have fun with people, they think I’m crazy or stupid. I think if I could use my “Fe” in a better way I could really spend good times to play and have fun without they think I’m stupid or crazy.
How do you manage to have fun with people?
 

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Developing Fe? This is just my thoughts, but maybe you can:

-put yourself in the weak, the sad, the lonely, the grieving, as well as the happy and hopeful people's shoes--you can do this by reading inspiring stories, watching meaningful and emotion-filled movies. Also by paying attention to some of the tragedies of the world...finding video clips, newspaper articles, etc...and looking closely at how people are struggling, coping, and trying to move forward. Getting more exposed to this will make you more aware of the complexity of people, their troubles, and dreams...the more personal side of life. It will start to develop your sense of empathy.

-Then remember that you are a person too who shares a common humanity with others. Maybe start to journal to explore a bit of your own feelings, as soon as you start to recognize and understand other people's feelings.

-find nice people to hang around with...let their happy kind selves affect you. Maybe join a charity or club that gives to other people and soon you may feel a bit of the "warm" feelings that makes Fe users happy to make others happy.

-When you are with someone, try to really listen to them, look at them often while they speak, try to not interrupt them...pay attention. Soon you may start to notice the feelings of others more and more by looking at their face, hearing their words, listening to how they say things.

-Try to be aware of how you sound as you speak. Avoid raising your voice, saying "you" a lot, pointing out the other person's flaws. See how kind people behave. Observe it. Imitate it whenever you can for as many people as you can. If you find that you appreciate something about someone, tell it to them... say "thank you" as much as possible.
 

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I'm an aux-Fe; to be honest, I had neglected a lot until pretty recently. I think the thing that got it to come out was I started looking at the people around me differently:

I find it helps if you start thinking about the people in your life, what they're going through, if they're doing well, if something is wrong if they're hurting somewhere, etc. Then think in terms of "What can I do to make this person feel supported, or to help, or to make this person feel better?" I find the Fe would come out a lot more when I would make a conscientious effort to think more about other people and their feelings, etc. I found it a little draining at first, but it became more natural.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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Developing Fe? This is just my thoughts, but maybe you can:
-put yourself in the weak, the sad, the lonely, the grieving, as well as the happy and hopeful people's shoes--you can do this by reading inspiring stories, watching meaningful and emotion-filled movies. Also by paying attention to some of the tragedies of the world...finding video clips, newspaper articles, etc...and looking closely at how people are struggling, coping, and trying to move forward. Getting more exposed to this will make you more aware of the complexity of people, their troubles, and dreams...the more personal side of life. It will start to develop your sense of empathy.

-Then remember that you are a person too who shares a common humanity with others. Maybe start to journal to explore a bit of your own feelings, as soon as you start to recognize and understand other people's feelings.

-find nice people to hang around with...let their happy kind selves affect you. Maybe join a charity or club that gives to other people and soon you may feel a bit of the "warm" feelings that makes Fe users happy to make others happy.

-When you are with someone, try to really listen to them, look at them often while they speak, try to not interrupt them...pay attention. Soon you may start to notice the feelings of others more and more by looking at their face, hearing their words, listening to how they say things.

-Try to be aware of how you sound as you speak. Avoid raising your voice, saying "you" a lot, pointing out the other person's flaws. See how kind people behave. Observe it. Imitate it whenever you can for as many people as you can. If you find that you appreciate something about someone, tell it to them... say "thank you" as much as possible.
I'm an aux-Fe; to be honest, I had neglected a lot until pretty recently. I think the thing that got it to come out was I started looking at the people around me differently:

I find it helps if you start thinking about the people in your life, what they're going through, if they're doing well, if something is wrong if they're hurting somewhere, etc. Then think in terms of "What can I do to make this person feel supported, or to help, or to make this person feel better?" I find the Fe would come out a lot more when I would make a conscientious effort to think more about other people and their feelings, etc. I found it a little draining at first, but it became more natural.
Thank you very much!!!
I will try yours advices.
I tried to make a compilation .

Me alone:
- To think more about others feelings
- To put myself in people's shoes (happy and sad people); their troubles and dream:
- To start thinking about the people in your life, what they're going through, if they're doing well, if something is wrong if they're hurting somewhere, etc.
- - Try to understand my feelings (except for the strongest feelings like anger, and love; it's really difficult for me but i'll do it)

Me with external world (things I can do for her or him):
- To pay attention to their feeling
- When you are with someone, try to really listen to them, look at them often while they speak, try to not interrupt them...pay attention. Soon you may start to notice the feelings of others more and more by looking at their face, hearing their words, listening to how they say things.
- To think in terms of "What can I do to make this person feel supported, or to help, or to make this person feel better?"

Me with external world (things I can do about me and for me):
- To feed myself with feelings (like movies, songs etc.)
- To find nice people to hang around with...and let their happy kind selves affect me.
- to filter the inherent, more primal urges of Fe through Ti
- Try to be aware of how you sound as you speak. Avoid raising your voice, saying "you" a lot, pointing out the other person's flaws. See how kind people behave. Observe it. Imitate it whenever you can for as many people as you can. If you find that you appreciate something about someone, tell it to them... say "thank you" as much as possible.


I will try everything you said. And maybe I will develop my “Fe”.

I was wondering too:
- What do you think, if I just shut my mouth some time to time? for example:
o If I never talk about my ideas
o If I never criticize at all, and try to understand people’s feelings.

But i still don't understand how do you enjoy spending time with people (with you Fe function)? I mean I was thinking that my “Fe” function would push me to want to have so much fun. But may be it’s my “P” side who push me to?

What do you think?
 

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@fengshui222
Maybe your desire to spend time with people comes from being extraverted where you gain energy from people and the outside world? Maybe you feel this rush of energy when you are with others because you are an "E", so that is why you are pushed to have fun... and yeah, maybe the "P" side also.


Here is a link to a webpage where you might find some answers in terms of an ENTP's relationship with friends and other people:

ENTP Relationships

Also there is a personal growth section (click the tree icon) and a portrait section (click the face icon). It is one of my favorite places to learn more about others and myself and how I can grow.
 
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That would be shadow Fi, my friend ;)
Oh I see <.< missed the shadow part...yeah the would make sense. TJs are supposed to become like that when under a lot of stress.

I really suck at Fe. My tendency is to feel different from people around me, sometimes I feel the same..but its more of a coincidence then actually resonating with them. Kinda makes me feel like an outsider all the time. I have a nigh inability to comfort others directly...sure I can through my actions or some other way, but not through showing affection and sympathy. Then there is also my tendency to rebel against value consensus....giving up on how I view things makes me anxious which in turn makes me combative and rebellious. The worst comes when a bunch of people will decide to step on a personal value of mine, intentionally or not, because they decided to value it differently. It ends up in a me against them clash and I can be extremely willful about it despite not having a fixed set of values.
 

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-





I was wondering too:
- What do you think, if I just shut my mouth some time to time? for example:
o If I never talk about my ideas
o If I never criticize at all, and try to understand people’s feelings.

But i still don't understand how do you enjoy spending time with people (with you Fe function)? I mean I was thinking that my “Fe” function would push me to want to have so much fun. But may be it’s my “P” side who push me to?

What do you think?
A Fe-dom I would imagine enjoys spending time with people differently from a tert-Fe. For the Fe-dom, Fe kinda sets the tone I guess for how all the other functions are used. A Ne-dom might be more likely to have fun with Fe, I would imagine.

I was going to say too, that I find Fe-doms talk about their ideas and some give criticism, from time to time. Enneagram might play a role in the latter. My ENFJ friend I'm sure is a 2w1 so he's always giving the people in his life some form of constructive criticism whether they want it or not. A lot of people mistaken Fe for "The Buddy Bears" on Garfield: "We are the buddy bears we always get along....", but it isn't really like that. Fe usually incorporates a distinct value system like Fi, but the values of a Fe user, tends to hover around, social rules. Fe users usually have a lot of ideas about how people should be treated, but it doesn't rule out them having a lot of original ideas about other things and sharing them. I think heavy Fe users have and express as many ideas as non-Fe users, the difference is usually, that when Fe users tend to present their ideas/knowledge etc. we tend to wrap our ideas in pretty little packages.

As an ENTP though you probably have more access to your Fe than you think. If I understand correctly, I understand that if an ENTP spends too much time with others and not enough time introspecting they can go through a Ne-Fe loop. I have an ENTP friend and I can just about tell when he's doing it. He's extremely conscientious about making sure he doesn't step on anyone's feelings, but if he disagrees with something anyone says, he doesn't keep it to himself, he just says it with a smile.
 

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Oh I see <.< missed the shadow part...yeah the would make sense. TJs are supposed to become like that when under a lot of stress.

I really suck at Fe. My tendency is to feel different from people around me, sometimes I feel the same..but its more of a coincidence then actually resonating with them. Kinda makes me feel like an outsider all the time. I have a nigh inability to comfort others directly...sure I can through my actions or some other way, but not through showing affection and sympathy. Then there is also my tendency to rebel against value consensus....giving up on how I view things makes me anxious which in turn makes me combative and rebellious. The worst comes when a bunch of people will decide to step on a personal value of mine, intentionally or not, because they decided to value it differently. It ends up in a me against them clash and I can be extremely willful about it despite not having a fixed set of values.
Yeah, I'm kind of in the same situation but opposite. I suck at Fi, the only time Fi comes out in my mind, it's negative and will be like "You're a horrible person! These people are horrible people! This is horrible!"; it's very judgmental. As I get older I really want to reconcile myself better to my shadow functions, particularly Fi, because I admire how Fi-doms come with a set of original ideas and don't really care if anyone agrees with them.
 

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Really? So what is Fe like then? I should know since its my first function?
Here's a great thread on the subject:

http://personalitycafe.com/enfj-forum-givers/61378-fe-dom.html

Though a lot of it has Enneagram, MBTI stuff mixed up - even in my posts because I wasn't as well-versed myself at the time either.

Fe is very, very simply putting it a rational judging process whereby the individual processes how they interact with the world through feeling. So .. it's extremely common for an ExFJ to make decisions and then make statements "I did this because I felt it." The mode is external.

It's also traditionally assumed to have been the primary function of women, especially in the case of ESFJ's and ISFJ's who are the stereotypical 50's stepford housewives --- Therefore I believe that a lot of the ideas surrounding group herd mentality, adhering to social rules, norms and values etc came into existence because that's what was the most common accepted behavioural tendencies of Fe dom / aux combination.



^^ This is the illustration of the classic Fe dom / aux female ... and no matter what people say, they simply cannot get away from this image they have about Fe.

The paragraph below the bolded part is conjecture --- much like 90% of what's said about Fe on PerC anyways.

I would say a lot more if I wasn't so epically bored with the forum and repeating myself but there's a lot of good information in that thread.
 

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However, this doesn't also mean that an Fe-dom is incapable of sarcasm .. it just comes out under stress, when angry, or upset.
Ah yes, the sarcasm. I'm familiar with being on the receiving end of the ENFJ brand of "prettily wrapped" sarcasm too. The one I know can be pretty harsh too sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Oh I see <.< missed the shadow part...yeah the would make sense. TJs are supposed to become like that when under a lot of stress.

I really suck at Fe. My tendency is to feel different from people around me, sometimes I feel the same..but its more of a coincidence then actually resonating with them. Kinda makes me feel like an outsider all the time. I have a nigh inability to comfort others directly...sure I can through my actions or some other way, but not through showing affection and sympathy. Then there is also my tendency to rebel against value consensus....giving up on how I view things makes me anxious which in turn makes me combative and rebellious. The worst comes when a bunch of people will decide to step on a personal value of mine, intentionally or not, because they decided to value it differently. It ends up in a me against them clash and I can be extremely willful about it despite not having a fixed set of values.
It happens to me too.
Sometimes I feel like an outsider too and I don’t have the same point of view than a lot of people I know. And I tend to argue, even if I’m alone against everyone.
I think, this is a bad use of “Fe”

A Fe-dom I would imagine enjoys spending time with people differently from a tert-Fe. For the Fe-dom, Fe kinda sets the tone I guess for how all the other functions are used. A Ne-dom might be more likely to have fun with Fe, I would imagine.
Maybe that’s my Ne+Fe loop who needs me to tease people everytime (in a funnyway). To make a connection with fun.

Fe usually incorporates a distinct value system like Fi, but the values of a Fe user, tends to hover around, social rules. Fe users usually have a lot of ideas about how people should be treated, but it doesn't rule out them having a lot of original ideas about other things and sharing them. I think heavy Fe users have and express as many ideas as non-Fe users, the difference is usually, that when Fe users tend to present their ideas/knowledge etc. we tend to wrap our ideas in pretty little packages.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand “pretty little packages”. So I didn’t understood what you said.

I have an ENTP friend and I can just about tell when he's doing it. He's extremely conscientious about making sure he doesn't step on anyone's feelings, but if he disagrees with something anyone says, he doesn't keep it to himself, he just says it with a smile.
Yeah, me too, but then if nobody understand, I tend to argue and debate, so it ends good feelings of people and then, I tend to become unhappy about what I did.

@fengshui222
Maybe your desire to spend time with people comes from being extraverted where you gain energy from people and the outside world? Maybe you feel this rush of energy when you are with others because you are an "E", so that is why you are pushed to have fun... and yeah, maybe the "P" side also. .

You are right! This is probably my “Ne” function with my P who wants to have fun with people, to make new projects, discover new things new people and to be more adventurous.
I was probably wrong; thinking that my “Fe” wanted to have fun. Now I think my “Fe” probably want to have harmonious relationships, or having good feelings with external world.
In fact, I think I want to feed myself with good and fun vibrations. That’s probably Ne+Fe.

Here is a link to a webpage where you might find some answers in terms of an ENTP's relationship with friends and other people:
ENTP Relationships
Thanks for your link,
I find some stuffs really interesting, to develop my “fe”. And this is what I found:
ENTPs:
Fe:
- The ENTP's general enthusiasiam and good intentions are usually quite positive and healthful in a relationship.
- They're likely to be very attentive, involved, and questioning. They enjoy spontaneity rather than fixed schedules.

Bad Fe:
- Love to debate and may cause them to provoke arguments
- need to watch out for their tendency to be unaware of what others are feeling, and to inadvertantly neglect their relationships when faced with exciting possibilities that are external to their personal life
- The ENTP is likely to be somewhat inconsistent about spending quality time with their children.
- They love nothing better than engaging in a good debate with someone who can hold their end of the conversation. This will stimulate and energize the ENTP, who is highly competitive and loves to discuss theories.
- Sometimes the ENTP falls into the habit of practicing "one-upmanship". If this goes unchecked, it may cause a problem with friendships and close interpersonal relationships.
Ne:
- ENTPs love:
o New ideas
o New people
o New projects for themselves and their mates which they feel will propel them along their goal for growth and knowledge discovery.
o Adventure
- That’s why, when I can’t use my “Ne” or my “Ti” with some people, i feel like an outsider. And I’m bored sooo quickly. So I start to feel bad. Because I can’t feed myself with good feelings.
- In fact, I know, that happen a lot with some people, or in some environment.
- For example; in a friend’s home, I know I will try my best to have fun, but if there is a lot of “SPs” I know I can’t talk about ideas (because it will bores them very quickly). I know what they doesn’t like, but I don’t figure out, how to do, behave or speak about something we like (me and them). So it’s sometimes frustrating. And it start to bores me.


In fact, I think if I could use my “Ne” +” Fe” in a good way, it could be awesome.

Hey @Fizz
- Our preference is to ensure that the person we're talking to is comfortable, appreciated and getting full opportunity to actualize themselves.
- We are service oriented people –
- 9 times out of 10, we're easily able to adapt to whatever personality we're talking to / befriending.
- We become happy when others are happy. We take energy from positive interaction and lose energy in negative situations
- What I'm try to say is that we just *know* when another person is not feeling good. But at the same time we also *know* when it would be appropriate to interfere or not. We usually look for cues that the person really requires help or not. We don't push it down their throats.
- Our giving comes with self-sacrifice [which is not always a good thing].
- That's what it really means to be Fe-dom ... give and finding happiness in just giving - without expecting anything in return.

People who seem manipulative, controlling, argumentative etc are basically unhealthy versions of Fe users -
Regarding to everything everybody said in this post, I think, if I want to develop my Fe, I have to try to use it in a Ne+Fe way rather than an alone “Fe” way.
I mean, i'm not "fe" dom, so if I can’t use my Ne, I can’t have fun, and if I can’t have fun, I can’t feed myself with good feelings, even if people are happy, because I’m soo bored that I can’t see the external feelings.
Because, when I’m bored, I want to leave very quickly, or I start to sleep.

I think everything you said Is really accurate, and if I could mixe those material with my Ne function, I will probably be able to develop my Fe easier, because it will be funny.

My “Ne” wants:
- new ideas
- new people
- create new project
- new adventure
- imagination
- untertainment
- competition

And my good “Fe” is :
- anthusiasm
- good intentions
- stay positive
- be attentive, involved, and questioning
- stay spontaneous.
- the person we are talking is confortable
- to adpat to whatever personality, and to know when to interfer or not.
- be aware of people's feeling
- feed myself with good feelings.

If I manage to mixed those material, I will only have to stop:
- debating/ arguing etc. or just saying what I think and stop after.
- being inconsistent
- don't practice "one-upmanship"

Thanks everyone for your help. I understand now, why I am so bored with certain people: I just can’t use my “Ne”, so “Fe” is trying the best it could do to feed myself with good feelings (vibrations), but it doesn’t work, so I start to use “Fe” in a bad way. So I became tired and bored.

I think I am in the good way,
What do you think?
 
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