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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ENFJ friends!

What are some common relationship (friendship, potential romantic relationships, romantic relationships) do ENFJs have?

Here are a few that apply to me:

1. Quickly want to connect with people at a deeper level beyond the regular social conventions

2. Sometimes being open and vulnerable to wrong people

3. Ignoring my own needs and doing or over considering what other's want/wish me to do and then feeling bad about it later.

4. Forgiving or ignoring people's irritating comments without saying anything and then later blowing up privately.

5. Expecting others to understand you intuitively rather than having to state just as you want/need

Look forward to see if other ENFJs have any of these same issues.
 

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I have the same problems...

Issues I have and are working on are:

1. Difficulty asking for help from others unless it's already become a huge problem.

2. Difficulty getting started on some types of things when I have to work alone. (In general, having other people as my primary motivation.)

3. Being unsure of my own self-identity or real interests because of subconsciously eventually going along with what the people I spend most of my time with like to do... And how as a result, it is hard to make very close friends who last long, as I have to choose them carefully so that my "core" which includes my personality and beliefs (which I don't know very well) coincidentally ends up jiving well with theirs.

4. Telling lots of white lies for the purpose of social lubrication being second-nature. I dislike it because of the stress of people seeing through me and thinking of me as petty, and also because society shames such behaviour and because I feel like a bad person when I do it because of internalizing societal views, but it's part of my automatic response system and very difficult to intercept and shut off before it happens. Which brings me to..

5. Feeling like conventional ways that people interact in society is full of problems and garbage, but feeling like I have no choice but to conform anyway in many cases.

6. Being overly concerned about what others think.

7. Perfectionism and anxiety.
 

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@niffer

ENFJs are very very nice people- but as an ENFP, i can't help but judge the type of actions you appropriately describe as "social lubrication". ENFJs are masters of "social lubrication", and as an ENFP i can't help but see through it. a part of me feels like "this person is genuinely nice and is not doing anything that you would not do if you were them", but then the other part of me which goes against being generic and "saying all the right things just to get ahead" rebels and i end up finding it annoying. particularly so, when an ENFJ "works" me, and i can feel the effects, that really annoys me, because i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself.
 

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@niffer

ENFJs are very very nice people- but as an ENFP, i can't help but judge the type of actions you appropriately describe as "social lubrication". ENFJs are masters of "social lubrication", and as an ENFP i can't help but see through it. a part of me feels like "this person is genuinely nice and is not doing anything that you would not do if you were them", but then the other part of me which goes against being generic and "saying all the right things just to get ahead" rebels and i end up finding it annoying. particularly so, when an ENFJ "works" me, and i can feel the effects, that really annoys me, because i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself.
Muahaha.

You'll notice that I don't say "I dislike/feel bad for telling white lies because I think it is wrong to tell them".

I think society is a bitch for on one hand not really wanting to know the truth even for petty ordeals, while on the other hand simultaneously shaming those who choose to lie to get around it. I also hate how it indoctrinates people into arbitrarily feeling shame for it.

re: "i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself."

I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
 

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I think society is a bitch for on one hand not really wanting to know the truth even for petty ordeals, while on the other hand simultaneously shaming those who choose to lie to get around it. I also hate how it indoctrinates people into arbitrarily feeling shame for it.

re: "i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself."

I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
the way i see it, society is a grand design- it's designed to keep itself running as smoothly as possible, and morals and feelings that run within it are only there for that purpose. it doesn't help that i'm a sociology student :p. i was watching some old disney films for nostalgia's sake the other day, and i was just noticing all the moral messages that they plug into us from an early age- socialization.

you know, i was just trying to convince someone not to be jealous of other types on the ENFP forum, in particular ENFJs. he was talking about how altruistic and influential ENFJs were able to be, and that's true, but there's a positive and negative to being any type of person- the positives come with the negatives. being often beholden to others is probably one. i would never trade my strengths and weaknesses as an ENFP for an ENFJ, because i naturally value my own traits, if that makes sense. at the same time if i'd lived my life as an ENFJ, the opposite would be true.
 

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I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
This is exactly it. I think we manipulate and do other things to affect other people's behavior because we get influenced by others all the time. It's natural for us.

That being said, it's not a good thing. But I understand why we do it and why it can be hard not to. I guess the key lies in starting to prioritize our own views and our feelings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
re: "i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself."

I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
Wow. I felt like you took this thought out of my head. It is the sad part of being an ENFJ - so much care and concern for others, yet loosing themselves in the process.
 

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Some of the ENFJ-related interpersonal issues I experienced:


1. Not wanting to talk about myself, my life and my emotions out of fear of being boring to the other person -a.k.a. making the relationship all about the other person (I'm 95% over this one, thank God)

2. Stupidly believing in the good in everybody, even when my Ni tells me something is off - a.k.a. being ready to hang out with and work on the "potential" of most anybody

3. Coming off as "persuasive" or "influential" - not a bad thing in itself but people sometimes present it as if I "convinced" them into something...and then later blame me for being bossy if things go wrong

4. People treating me as a free therapist/dumping ground for their issues and just overall taking advantage of me - while I am so happy to help in any way I can I often don't even mind it!


Just a few off the top of my head :happy:
 

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ENFJ friends!

What are some common relationship (friendship, potential romantic relationships, romantic relationships) do ENFJs have?

Here are a few that apply to me:

1. Quickly want to connect with people at a deeper level beyond the regular social conventions

2. Sometimes being open and vulnerable to wrong people

3. Ignoring my own needs and doing or over considering what other's want/wish me to do and then feeling bad about it later.

4. Forgiving or ignoring people's irritating comments without saying anything and then later blowing up privately.

5. Expecting others to understand you intuitively rather than having to state just as you want/need

Look forward to see if other ENFJs have any of these same issues.
I have 1 & 2, but not 3, 4 & 5
 

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Sweet Matrimony.
ENTJ 8w7 so/sx
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@niffer

ENFJs are very very nice people- but as an ENFP, i can't help but judge the type of actions you appropriately describe as "social lubrication". ENFJs are masters of "social lubrication", and as an ENFP i can't help but see through it. a part of me feels like "this person is genuinely nice and is not doing anything that you would not do if you were them", but then the other part of me which goes against being generic and "saying all the right things just to get ahead" rebels and i end up finding it annoying. particularly so, when an ENFJ "works" me, and i can feel the effects, that really annoys me, because i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself.
I don't really know what the big deal is. At the end of the day, it's done to get you to loosen up and like us. Literally. Can you imagine how crazy uptight a room of people who don't socially lubricate would be? *shudders at the thought*

Some ENFJ's are more forceful in their attempt to "socially lubricate" because they genuinely think they know what's best for you but I have also seen this behaviour countless of times in ENFP's too. In fact nothing irks me more than an ENFP that projects their bullshit nonsense on to me because they believe they can "mind read" and they've somehow worked out what's best for me on the very little information I've given out anyway. Never ever will there be a day where this is okay.

Another thing that irks me is how xNFPs come here all the time projecting reasons/intentions into people's behaviour, "saying all the right things to get ahead." No dude, we just want to be bloody liked and as niffer perfectly explained sometimes we have no damn idea what we like so we just go along with everyone else.

It's great how you think everyone is shallow in their attempt to be liked, but as is explained in this sub millions of times, this is rarely ever the case. We genuinely wanted to be liked, sorry not sorry you can't see it that way.

I'm so sick of Fi vs. Fe drama that gets brought up in here all the time. You rarely ever see NFJs posting this sort of nonsense in the NFP forums...
 

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@JungleDisco

woah woah woah.. judging moralistic values aren't easy. there's no such thing as subjective morals, and i can see how an ENFJ "differs" from me.. having said that-

you've not actually contradicted anything i've said. you've talked about projecting things, and then straight away done exactly that by interpreting what i said the way you wanted to. that's why i mentioned that i would do exactly the same thing if i were an ENFJ- i don't have that need to be liked to the same extent as an ENFJ, but if i did i would do the same thing. you're talking as if i'm saying you're some ESTP which my description comes no where near close to (who also socially lubricate, but in a different manner. even then, i know an ESTP has their own perspective which is fine).

i know ENFJs just like to be liked, and i repeat a part of me knows they're genuinely the nicest people (nicer people than me really), but can't you step out of your ENFJ perspective for 5 seconds to realise how "wanting to be liked" to that extent, however "genuine" it is, seems strange to another type? like i can see how introverts might have an issue with me liking attention, but my redeeming qualities are usually enough to compensate, just like an ENFJ's usually are too.

there were never any criticisms here, just differences.
 

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Sweet Matrimony.
ENTJ 8w7 so/sx
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@JungleDisco

woah woah woah.. judging moralistic values aren't easy. there's no such thing as subjective morals, and i can see how an ENFJ "differs" from me.. having said that-
I can't agree with the statement there are no such things such as subjective morals. But if that's what you believe, cool.

you've not actually contradicted anything i've said. you've talked about projecting things, and then straight away done exactly that by interpreting what i said the way you wanted to. that's why i mentioned that i would do exactly the same thing if i were an ENFJ- i don't have that need to be liked to the same extent as an ENFJ, but if i did i would do the same thing. you're talking as if i'm saying you're some ESTP which my description comes no where near close to (who also socially lubricate, but in a different manner. even then, i know an ESTP has their own perspective which is fine).
You claimed you see straight through it, what there is to see through is beyond me it if you already know that ENFJs just want to be liked. That comment is unnecessary and cannot logically stand with the other; "they are genuinely nice people" and "but as an ENFP, I can see through it", which is it? Also the "I can see through it" bit is the contradiction. To see through it implies there is an intention there that you also recognise does not exist. You contradicted yourself and I just pointed it out - rather abrasively I do admit. But I'm sorry, this sort of sh*t enrages me.

So no, everything I say stands and you were projecting because of "saying all the right things to get ahead" where did this intention come from if you did not project it onto the other? How can this intention even exist if you know ENFJs want to be liked?

Nope, I don't even know what ESTPs have to do with this. And I'm sorry, I don't know anything about your experiences with ESTPs to comment.

i know ENFJs just like to be liked, and i repeat a part of me knows they're genuinely the nicest people (nicer people than me really), but can't you step out of your ENFJ perspective for 5 seconds to realise how "wanting to be liked" to that extent, however "genuine" it is, seems strange to another type? like i can see how introverts might have an issue with me liking attention, but my redeeming qualities are usually enough to compensate, just like an ENFJ's usually are too.
I did recognise that, Fi vs Fe.

there were never any criticisms here, just differences.
okay, if you say so. But your comment is not logically sound, you're holding two opposing statements and that is what I tried to undermine.
 
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I have the same problems...

Issues I have and are working on are:

1. Difficulty asking for help from others unless it's already become a huge problem.

2. Difficulty getting started on some types of things when I have to work alone. (In general, having other people as my primary motivation.)

3. Being unsure of my own self-identity or real interests because of subconsciously eventually going along with what the people I spend most of my time with like to do... And how as a result, it is hard to make very close friends who last long, as I have to choose them carefully so that my "core" which includes my personality and beliefs (which I don't know very well) coincidentally ends up jiving well with theirs.

4. Telling lots of white lies for the purpose of social lubrication being second-nature. I dislike it because of the stress of people seeing through me and thinking of me as petty, and also because society shames such behaviour and because I feel like a bad person when I do it because of internalizing societal views, but it's part of my automatic response system and very difficult to intercept and shut off before it happens. Which brings me to..

5. Feeling like conventional ways that people interact in society is full of problems and garbage, but feeling like I have no choice but to conform anyway in many cases.

6. Being overly concerned about what others think.

7. Perfectionism and anxiety.

I recognise all of it. Mostly I feel/am different from a lot of people around me and this forum really comforts me.
An issue I'm working on is to speak out loud (say what I have to say) in groups (esp. at work). I started in a small group where I can feel save because I can trust my boss. To search for a job in a relatively save environment was part of that (long) process.
Your number 1 (difficulty asking help until it's too late) is a struggle for me, because I started that recently (not waiting until it's too late) but you can ask for help too much and forget your own most powerfull source that's always right: your feelings!
About your nr 3: A year back I had no real friends at all, besides my boyfriend (an INTJ btw), now I have one (also an INTJ) and if anyone asks what my real interests are (or how I relax) I still can't answer that question. The only interest I can think of now is: I like to have deep conversations with other people about their (and my) feelings. Very ENFJ...;).
 

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@JungleDisco

woah woah woah.. judging moralistic values aren't easy. there's no such thing as subjective morals, and i can see how an ENFJ "differs" from me.. having said that-

you've not actually contradicted anything i've said. you've talked about projecting things, and then straight away done exactly that by interpreting what i said the way you wanted to. that's why i mentioned that i would do exactly the same thing if i were an ENFJ- i don't have that need to be liked to the same extent as an ENFJ, but if i did i would do the same thing. you're talking as if i'm saying you're some ESTP which my description comes no where near close to (who also socially lubricate, but in a different manner. even then, i know an ESTP has their own perspective which is fine).

i know ENFJs just like to be liked, and i repeat a part of me knows they're genuinely the nicest people (nicer people than me really), but can't you step out of your ENFJ perspective for 5 seconds to realise how "wanting to be liked" to that extent, however "genuine" it is, seems strange to another type? like i can see how introverts might have an issue with me liking attention, but my redeeming qualities are usually enough to compensate, just like an ENFJ's usually are too.

there were never any criticisms here, just differences.
Well you know thats the common problem with people.

You cant be as nice as you want to them because they think you have some sneaky stuff up your sleeve. Which is a real shame. Some people are nice just because theyre nice. Not because they want anything from you, or want to get on your good side.

Some people are just like that because theyre in touch with their emotions and ethics. Or values they find important/realize.


And in terms of being liked, I dont think thats a thing for all ENFJ. Sometimes I say the most completely random and weird things for my own amusement/humor, with disregards if anyone thinks I'm a total weirdo, as long as it isnt at anyones expense.


Anyways, Ill add to the thread

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Disregarding social rules occasionally

Doing "tests" or games to see how people think

Being too self sacrificing and having to live up to peoples expectations

Being gullible at times thinking people have the best intentions

Having too high or low expectations of others and taking too much responsibility

Disposing of people quickly if no value is seen

Having too much fun and looking too silly (The Fun Police are always on the watch)
 
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