@niffer
ENFJs are very very nice people- but as an ENFP, i can't help but judge the type of actions you appropriately describe as "social lubrication". ENFJs are masters of "social lubrication", and as an ENFP i can't help but see through it. a part of me feels like "this person is genuinely nice and is not doing anything that you would not do if you were them", but then the other part of me which goes against being generic and "saying all the right things just to get ahead" rebels and i end up finding it annoying. particularly so, when an ENFJ "works" me, and i can feel the effects, that really annoys me, because i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself.
I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
I think society is a bitch for on one hand not really wanting to know the truth even for petty ordeals, while on the other hand simultaneously shaming those who choose to lie to get around it. I also hate how it indoctrinates people into arbitrarily feeling shame for it.
re: "i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself."
I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
re: "i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself."
I'm sure you're able to imagine then how much it must hurt to have everyone have more influence on you than yourself.
ENFJ friends!
What are some common relationship (friendship, potential romantic relationships, romantic relationships) do ENFJs have?
Here are a few that apply to me:
1. Quickly want to connect with people at a deeper level beyond the regular social conventions
2. Sometimes being open and vulnerable to wrong people
3. Ignoring my own needs and doing or over considering what other's want/wish me to do and then feeling bad about it later.
4. Forgiving or ignoring people's irritating comments without saying anything and then later blowing up privately.
5. Expecting others to understand you intuitively rather than having to state just as you want/need
Look forward to see if other ENFJs have any of these same issues.
@niffer
ENFJs are very very nice people- but as an ENFP, i can't help but judge the type of actions you appropriately describe as "social lubrication". ENFJs are masters of "social lubrication", and as an ENFP i can't help but see through it. a part of me feels like "this person is genuinely nice and is not doing anything that you would not do if you were them", but then the other part of me which goes against being generic and "saying all the right things just to get ahead" rebels and i end up finding it annoying. particularly so, when an ENFJ "works" me, and i can feel the effects, that really annoys me, because i'm so used to no one having much influence over me but myself.
@JungleDisco
woah woah woah.. judging moralistic values aren't easy. there's no such thing as subjective morals, and i can see how an ENFJ "differs" from me.. having said that-
You claimed you see straight through it, what there is to see through is beyond me it if you already know that ENFJs just want to be liked. That comment is unnecessary and cannot logically stand with the other; "they are genuinely nice people" and "but as an ENFP, I can see through it", which is it? Also the "I can see through it" bit is the contradiction. To see through it implies there is an intention there that you also recognise does not exist. You contradicted yourself and I just pointed it out - rather abrasively I do admit. But I'm sorry, this sort of sh*t enrages me.you've not actually contradicted anything i've said. you've talked about projecting things, and then straight away done exactly that by interpreting what i said the way you wanted to. that's why i mentioned that i would do exactly the same thing if i were an ENFJ- i don't have that need to be liked to the same extent as an ENFJ, but if i did i would do the same thing. you're talking as if i'm saying you're some ESTP which my description comes no where near close to (who also socially lubricate, but in a different manner. even then, i know an ESTP has their own perspective which is fine).
I did recognise that, Fi vs Fe.i know ENFJs just like to be liked, and i repeat a part of me knows they're genuinely the nicest people (nicer people than me really), but can't you step out of your ENFJ perspective for 5 seconds to realise how "wanting to be liked" to that extent, however "genuine" it is, seems strange to another type? like i can see how introverts might have an issue with me liking attention, but my redeeming qualities are usually enough to compensate, just like an ENFJ's usually are too.
okay, if you say so. But your comment is not logically sound, you're holding two opposing statements and that is what I tried to undermine.there were never any criticisms here, just differences.
I have the same problems...
Issues I have and are working on are:
1. Difficulty asking for help from others unless it's already become a huge problem.
2. Difficulty getting started on some types of things when I have to work alone. (In general, having other people as my primary motivation.)
3. Being unsure of my own self-identity or real interests because of subconsciously eventually going along with what the people I spend most of my time with like to do... And how as a result, it is hard to make very close friends who last long, as I have to choose them carefully so that my "core" which includes my personality and beliefs (which I don't know very well) coincidentally ends up jiving well with theirs.
4. Telling lots of white lies for the purpose of social lubrication being second-nature. I dislike it because of the stress of people seeing through me and thinking of me as petty, and also because society shames such behaviour and because I feel like a bad person when I do it because of internalizing societal views, but it's part of my automatic response system and very difficult to intercept and shut off before it happens. Which brings me to..
5. Feeling like conventional ways that people interact in society is full of problems and garbage, but feeling like I have no choice but to conform anyway in many cases.
6. Being overly concerned about what others think.
7. Perfectionism and anxiety.
@JungleDisco
woah woah woah.. judging moralistic values aren't easy. there's no such thing as subjective morals, and i can see how an ENFJ "differs" from me.. having said that-
you've not actually contradicted anything i've said. you've talked about projecting things, and then straight away done exactly that by interpreting what i said the way you wanted to. that's why i mentioned that i would do exactly the same thing if i were an ENFJ- i don't have that need to be liked to the same extent as an ENFJ, but if i did i would do the same thing. you're talking as if i'm saying you're some ESTP which my description comes no where near close to (who also socially lubricate, but in a different manner. even then, i know an ESTP has their own perspective which is fine).
i know ENFJs just like to be liked, and i repeat a part of me knows they're genuinely the nicest people (nicer people than me really), but can't you step out of your ENFJ perspective for 5 seconds to realise how "wanting to be liked" to that extent, however "genuine" it is, seems strange to another type? like i can see how introverts might have an issue with me liking attention, but my redeeming qualities are usually enough to compensate, just like an ENFJ's usually are too.
there were never any criticisms here, just differences.