[Enigma0z]

Okay so everything I've read from the psychoanalytical & socionics (sp?) side of things says that any meaningful life-long relationship between an ENFJ & an ENFP is at the worst tenuous and at the best it takes a lot of work... most of the things I've read seem pretty bleak actuallly...

Which brings me to my point... I've pretty much fallen head-over-heels in love with this completely awesome ENFP girl, and I wanted to get some PerC opinions here...

As far as the J/P thing goes, I'm a pretty weak J, as I usually make plans and then abandon them as soon as they aren't working, love spontaneity (especially about her), etc... Just like to have a place to come home to. My workspace is a complete mess though.

I was debating on whether or not to put this in the ENFP or ENFJ forum, so hopefully I picked the best one.

Anyway, opinions? Do you think it'd work?

 

[dp624]

I think it would work splendidly

 

[GoGo]

One of my best friends is an ENFJ, and we get along pretty well for the most part. Usually the only problem I have with her is that sometimes she can be extremely stubborn and almost harsh sometimes. She can get annoyed at how lazy I can be. Despite this, we actually worked very well together. Since we were both ENFx, we could both look at something and understand it the same way and talk about it. We were both very understanding when it came to people.

At the end of the day, she was the cake and I was the decorative frosting. IMO, your hopefulness is not in vain. Like you mentioned, though, it might take some work. I think it really just comes down to whether or not your differences in your values conflict too much, and whether or not she's willing to work around your J.

Good luck, Casanova!

P.S. If you're into her and she's into you, screw the mbti stuff. It'll work itself out.

 

[Enigma0z]

I think it would work splendidly

One of my best friends is an ENFJ, and we get along pretty well for the most part. Usually the only problem I have with her is that sometimes she can be extremely stubborn and almost harsh sometimes. She can get annoyed at how lazy I can be. Despite this, we actually worked very well together. Since we were both ENFx, we could both look at something and understand it the same way and talk about it. We were both very understanding when it came to people.

At the end of the day, she was the cake and I was the decorative frosting. IMO, your hopefulness is not in vain. Like you mentioned, though, it might take some work. I think it really just comes down to whether or not your differences in your values conflict too much, and whether or not she's willing to work around your J.

...

P.S. If you're into her and she's into you, screw the mbti stuff. It'll work itself out.

Thanks both of you, I needed to hear that.

Good luck, Casanova!

Oh geez. :blushed:

 

[Arioche]

Okay so everything I've read from the psychoanalytical & socionics (sp?) side of things says that any meaningful life-long relationship between an ENFJ & an ENFP is at the worst tenuous and at the best it takes a lot of work... most of the things I've read seem pretty bleak actuallly...

Which brings me to my point... I've pretty much fallen head-over-heels in love with this completely awesome ENFP girl, and I wanted to get some PerC opinions here...

As far as the J/P thing goes, I'm a pretty weak J, as I usually make plans and then abandon them as soon as they aren't working, love spontaneity (especially about her), etc... Just like to have a place to come home to. My workspace is a complete mess though.

I was debating on whether or not to put this in the ENFP or ENFJ forum, so hopefully I picked the best one.

Anyway, opinions? Do you think it'd work?

Don't take those relationship compatibility thing too too seriously. Given the nature of the MBTI, though some traits are more stereotypically associated with one type than another, the specific actions, traits, preferences and behaviors (outside the realm of preference for natural cognition order) of a person can be attributed to any type/cognitive function if the right circumstances are met. Long story short, any type can have any kind of relationship with any other type because there are so many individual differences: there can be a fun, intelligent, ambitious, confident, sexy ENFJ, and there can be snobby, stupid, dependent, lazy close-minded ENFJ.

The only thing to watch for in terms of type compatibility is cognitive preferences. For example, I personally don't prefer ENFJs too too much (there are always exceptions!) because I find their primary function, Fe, often hard to understand. Being able to accept and/or understand the nature of her natural cognitive order, and thus her preference for thought processing, is probably the primary issue when it comes to MBTI types and romance.

(also, being a J or a P doesn't necessarily mean messy/orderly; its primary purpose is determining the extroverted/introverted side of your judging (Te, Ti, Fe, and Fi) and perceiving function in your type (Ne, Ni, Se, Si). You should try looking at the cognitive functions of each type instead of looking at letter to letter differences, if you are interested.)

 

[Later Days]

It's just gonna take some patience with her probing you about how you're feeling and you being honest with her.
Otherwise, I could definitely see it working, as long as you both are willing to compromise.

 

[Enigma0z]

Don't take those relationship compatibility thing too too seriously. Given the nature of the MBTI, though some traits are more stereotypically associated with one type than another, the specific actions, traits, preferences and behaviors (outside the realm of preference for natural cognition order) of a person can be attributed to any type/cognitive function if the right circumstances are met. Long story short, any type can have any kind of relationship with any other type because there are so many individual differences: there can be a fun, intelligent, ambitious, confident, sexy ENFJ, and there can be snobby, stupid, dependent, lazy close-minded ENFJ.

The only thing to watch for in terms of type compatibility is cognitive preferences. For example, I personally don't prefer ENFJs too too much (there are always exceptions!) because I find their primary function, Fe, often hard to understand. Being able to accept and/or understand the nature of her natural cognitive order, and thus her preference for thought processing, is probably the primary issue when it comes to MBTI types and romance.

(also, being a J or a P doesn't necessarily mean messy/orderly; its primary purpose is determining the extroverted/introverted side of your judging (Te, Ti, Fe, and Fi) and perceiving function in your type (Ne, Ni, Se, Si). You should try looking at the cognitive functions of each type instead of looking at letter to letter differences, if you are interested.)

Actually, I was, I did, and the cognitive preferences were actually very interesting... it looks like ENFJ/P have the same preferences with opposite, uh, directions (?) of expression, for instance, Fe vs Fi, Te vs Ti, Ne vs Ni, etc... in that way, the two personalities complement each other IMO.

It's just gonna take some patience with her probing you about how you're feeling and you being honest with her.
Otherwise, I could definitely see it working, as long as you both are willing to compromise.

That's basically what I've been telling myself. It feels good to hear that from someone else. :happy:

 

[summersoccer14]

Actually my boyfriend is an ENFP and i'm an ENFJ and we are going on 7months now.. and we get along just fine!

We both respect each other wishes.. and somewhat understand each other.. Except.. i'm more willing to agree or make a win win and he has this thing where he's always right ;P but i just go with it.. cause deep down he knows i can be right XD but dude.. go for it! You can make any relationship work out!

 

[marzipan01]

Some say we're compliments some say we're quasi-identicals. I've been so confused as of late because I am in love with an ENFJ guy myself and it's almost been a year now and it's been a little rough. We get independence, sure, but we aren't really in each other's lives. It's like his intuition is inaccessible to me which makes me feel a distance when we're talking about what the hell is going on and my feeling is normally cut off from him because it's guiding my assessment. So I try to understand something and he starts freaking out. I think the most important thing on my end is to phrase things right so that he doesn't get all emotional at me. I have no idea what ENFJ guys are supposed to do to be better I already think at least mine is great. My only complaint is that he is so busy running off to do things for so many different people that he's late to show up. Other thing is communication I think is the key important factor.

 

[Enigma0z]

Actually my boyfriend is an ENFP and i'm an ENFJ and we are going on 7months now.. and we get along just fine!

We both respect each other wishes.. and somewhat understand each other.. Except.. i'm more willing to agree or make a win win and he has this thing where he's always right ;P but i just go with it.. cause deep down he knows i can be right XD but dude.. go for it! You can make any relationship work out!

Yeah, I'd have to agree with the agreeing thing except on one point, if there's something I feel strongly about, I need to be persuaded before I'll agree...

I've been so confused as of late because I am in love with an ENFJ guy myself and it's almost been a year now and it's been a little rough. We get independence, sure, but we aren't really in each other's lives. It's like his intuition is inaccessible to me which makes me feel a distance when we're talking about what the hell is going on and my feeling is normally cut off from him because it's guiding my assessment. So I try to understand something and he starts freaking out.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this... could you elaborate or give an example?

I think the most important thing on my end is to phrase things right so that he doesn't get all emotional at me. I have no idea what ENFJ guys are supposed to do to be better I already think at least mine is great. My only complaint is that he is so busy running off to do things for so many different people that he's late to show up. Other thing is communication I think is the key important factor.

Yeah, communication's definitely important, regardless of your personality type, in my opinion... not being afraid to be honest with each other is a BIG one, but willing to work things out if you don't agree is most important... I dunno, I haven't really ever had a hard time understanding who she is or why she does this or that or whatever.

All - thanks again for all the encouragement. Here goes nothing... :crazy:

 

[kibou]

If either the ENFP or the ENFJ has a highly developed tertiary function, watch out, it's the demonic point (the most subconscious) point of the other person and can be a highly sensitive area. One of the biggest problems I've had with an ENFJs was when I was using Te strongly since it's antithetical to Fe. Dating Se-dominants has been an area of development for me, and it's still one of the places I get too sensitive when talking with Se-strong ENFJs.

Honestly though, the odds are working for you. the P/J differences can be pretty big but similar priorities in cognitive functions means that you will speak a similar language. I've been friends with a lot of ENFJs, and I think for the bigger extroverts it's a great combination. My thing is personally with INFJs, maybe because they tend to have a closer, smaller set of friends.

 

[Deja Vu]

My friend (girl) and I could never be a couple. I think it's more an individual thing, more than all across the board personality thing. We'd just never work out. We have too close a temperament, so I either have to dial down a notch to have the kind of vibe I like. Which is fine, but...I just couldn't see it happening, because she doesn't instinctively bring it out of me. I dont just feel instinctly calm because of her - so it's a bit forced. We're cool friends though.

 

[Mutatio NOmenis]

Socionics is wierd bullshit that isn't even internally consistent. There are no formulas for converting between MBTI and socionics types and the whole "duals" thing is a cruel joke. If ESFP's were meant to be my dual, then I should be up to my neck in girls.

 

[Enigma0z]

If either the ENFP or the ENFJ has a highly developed tertiary function, watch out, it's the demonic point (the most subconscious) point of the other person and can be a highly sensitive area. One of the biggest problems I've had with an ENFJs was when I was using Te strongly since it's antithetical to Fe. Dating Se-dominants has been an area of development for me, and it's still one of the places I get too sensitive when talking with Se-strong ENFJs.

Honestly though, the odds are working for you. the P/J differences can be pretty big but similar priorities in cognitive functions means that you will speak a similar language. I've been friends with a lot of ENFJs, and I think for the bigger extroverts it's a great combination. My thing is personally with INFJs, maybe because they tend to have a closer, smaller set of friends.

You're talking about ENFJ's Se vs the ENFP's Ne, or ENFP's Te vs. ENFJ's Fe? Hmmmmm interesting point.

My friend (girl) and I could never be a couple. I think it's more an individual thing, more than all across the board personality thing. We'd just never work out. We have too close a temperament, so I either have to dial down a notch to have the kind of vibe I like. Which is fine, but...I just couldn't see it happening, because she doesn't instinctively bring it out of me. I dont just feel instinctly calm because of her - so it's a bit forced. We're cool friends though.

And that's fine... you gotta click with whoever you're gonna stay with for the rest of your life...

Socionics is wierd bullshit that isn't even internally consistent. There are no formulas for converting between MBTI and socionics types and the whole "duals" thing is a cruel joke. If ESFP's were meant to be my dual, then I should be up to my neck in girls.

Thank you!

 

[marzipan01]

Well, to elaborate with example, EnigmaOz, my intuition is what I show on the outside. So for example, I am hurt that my boyfriend is late even though he has given me good reason, I can not reason away the idea that he doesn't love me as much as I love him. This emotion colors the way I see him so then I will say something like "You don't respect other people. You care more about how you come off to other people and making them think you are nice more than you actually care about being nice yourself." And this hurts him because it isn't true. He actually cares about people which was probably why he was late in the first place but instead of saying what I feel I made some intuition statement colored by what I feel instead of actually looking at what I'm feeling because I can't see it, it's too far in my own mind. Then he gets hurt even though what I said wasn't true because I, someone he does care about a lot, thinks he is selfish and lacking in values. And he starts crying and says, "It hurts that you would think that about me. If you love me why do you make me feel this way?" And I think this is further evidence that he values what people think about him more than he actually values people because still I have yet to look at my own emotions. And so I yell and he cries because my emotions are inaccessible. And his are on the surface. Once I have reflected, which I have because otherwise I would not be able to write this post in such detail, the situation is ameliorated and we are more connected than ever before because my emotions have finally met with his and we are at the same place. However, there is a lot of confusing wreckage in between.

 

[marzipan01]

Yes, Mutatio, I agree with you. For a time I was a bit obsessed with socionics because I was refusing to look at my own emotions and my personal values. Letting my intution color everything I used Te to fuel the fire between my boyfriend and me. In reality, I was refusing to admit that I was insecure both about my own place in the world as well as the nature of our relationship. Ultimately, we had a huge fight and I couldn't talk to him for a few days and I realized what a douche I had been. My insecurity had only been amplified by his security in the world. He has different circumstances than me. But ultimately we have similar values and I prefer him to anyone else. Not just because of his type. I think understanding the nature of personality types was a mild hindrance though in that once I understood it more and realized how I was making my emotions inaccessible and allowing them rule over me, I was able to overcome them. In a way you have to learn the rules in order to break them. Some people don't need to understand it to be healthy but I did I think. Idiris, I know what you mean ab out not being able to calm the other person down. Once I was saying a serious of comments about the condition of my roof because I was feeling frightened that the thing would collapse an kill me and my dog in response to these comments my boyfriend's expression got so anxious and freaked and he said, "You need to get that roof fixed! It could kill you or kill your dog!"
:laughing:
It's little things like that. But there are ways to deal with this when you've met your one.

 

[marzipan01]

Roar somehow my post was posted twice!

 

[Arinn]

Socionics is wierd bullshit that isn't even internally consistent. There are no formulas for converting between MBTI and socionics types and the whole "duals" thing is a cruel joke. If ESFP's were meant to be my dual, then I should be up to my neck in girls.

Aww no, ima so sorry to hear that. It's true that there isn't any formula's to convert, just treat it as seperate theories and get your 2 types separately. Figures that I'm ENFJ in both Myers briggs & socionics. Seems like i know myself fairly well.

Let me take an example of a girl whom I'm pursuing, she is in fact an ISTX (but in reality she's a ISTJ, since the descriptions of an ISTP don't match her) well from both socionics & mbti). Now before i get into that, i'd like to note that i also have an ISTJ mother who loves me in her own way..though the way she behaves around me naturally ticks me off. But otherwise my mum and i are still cool with each other. She grew up in HK and Canada for me, so we have our differences.

One thing you must know about duality, it's hard to notice your dual(well in your case you probably have the ESFP girls sunk in your head). Because we're just 2 complete opposites, but compliments really. It takes times to get used to your dual, but that's only if you're in the proper environment to develop a dual relationship. So many external factors that would have it not work out, say if she didn't pay attention to INTP's then it's kind of like a no chance. Then again dual's aren't for everyone, it might not be too practical but it might be once you've attained a good position in life. (Good financially? uhh more maturity? More development of one self? Stuff like ya?. O and i wouldn't want to be saying socionics is bullshit until I've done some exhaustive study about duality itself.

My 2 cents

 

[Enigma0z]

*update* ... FYI it didn't work out with me & her... Truthfully I'm actually glad it didn't, and we're still friends. Anyway... just wanted to let y'all know.

 

[kibou]

Out of all the MBTI letters, the J and P makes the biggest difference. It inverts the direction of the cognitive process from extraverted to introverted, and shifts the order of the functions. I think it makes some sense to feel unconclusive about E versus I but J and P types with the same inner letters (T-F, S-N) are completely different creatures.