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I'm curious to see how ENFJ's use their intuition and then compare notes with ENTJ's. We both share Ni as our auxiliary function so I think the comparison would be interesting.

If you would like, feel free to reflect on past experiences that remind you of when your Ni was put into action. Once you were able to see the end result of something, what did you do about it? Did you ever second guess your intuition?

If you would like to share stories that would be really cool too. The background information might give us some more insight.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Bump! I'm really curious about this myself. I know the INTJs and INFJs have explored this in some depth.

How do you think it differs for us in using it as an auxiliary function? How does it work in conjunction with Fe?

I feel as though I have a better grasp of how it operates with Te, but in general, I find it difficult to describe....

Does anyone have specific examples of Ni moments? I know they happen, but I always tend to lose sight of them. How do you think it operates in us?
 
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Hmmm ... Let me collect all my posts about my use of Ni on PerC and get back to you.

Edit. Mentioning you cuz I just updated the post.

@Happy about Nothing.

From the http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/59416-gently-honest-mistype-revelation-thread.html

I hope I can sort of shed light through what my experience with intuition is.

Let's leave aside cognitive functions for a bit --- because honestly, despite whatever my knowledge about them is, it's never complete because the more I read about them, the more I get confused as there's an endless stream of cognitive function knowledge out there.

I have tried in the past to listen to others talking about functions and trying to make it sound like some sort of biblical divine code of breaking down individuals and their behaviour [tried to do it myself, but now I'm at a point where I've realized that I might be incapable of fully understanding it]

I'll share my experience with intuition .... (but remember that imo no function can be used independently of another no matter what people try to suggest. They're all inter-connected and my belief is that they cannot be developed independently)

- I always *know* whether something might be troubling someone in their lives even if they haven't told me anything specific about it, or if I haven't even noticed anything to suggest that they might be troubled.

- When I look at people, I make up stories about their lives. Everyone is capable of doing that -- it's just that I'm usually a little more accurate in my predictions

- When I'm introverted and not thinking about people, I get very focused input on a particular idea and I can trace it both backwards and forwards. However, the over-arching feeling is always "I just know - but I can't explain it". I just know what it would take to be successful at something, or fail at it. I just know what path is a good path and what path is a bad path because I can map out all the possible directions each of my choices will take and what kinds of choices I'll be presented with.

- It's the same when I think of other people
- It's the same when I think of society by and large.

- Therefore, I'm always intuitive regardless of the "scale" of my thought. It can range from being able to predict how my niece's life might develop if her circumstances aren't changed --- to how order through chaos may be achieved and what it would take to achieve it -- and even then realize that order through chaos is not a completed end - being able to see beyond that.

- I'm much more focused on the ends rather than the means - therefore I make choices and adapt accordingly. Whatever happens in between to throw me off my chosen path is usually discarded till I'm met with complete failure and *then* I question the means. For me, the possibilities that exist within my drive to reach my end are discarded as distractions. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not easily distracted, nor do I run after every little opportunity for small bits of happiness -- but rather continue to strive for long-term.

- My experience with other people with regards to my intuition is that people either completely reject what I say. It's usually the younger, more flexible minds that usually listen to me more readily than minds that are already set in their convictions. However, my point of focus is always singular and consistent. In debates, that's the most important thing being described about me -- and that is I don't readily change my stance and am fairly consistent.

- As for predicting people's moods --- I can predict, without even having any prior interaction with someone what their mood will become if I say something --- If I say ABCD to person A, I know he'll react differently than if I said it to person B --- it's just that it's kinda intuitive without having any interactions with that person. I dunno what it is -- body language? Clothes? -- Nah .. I can't relate it to anything at all ....


I'm not trying to create differences between Ni and Ne --- but I think if you are readily able to accept the literature on Ne and Ni [more so than I] -- then at least I've presented myself as an example of how I use my intuition and what it means for me.
From: http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/69843-ni-feeding-misinformation.html#post1716654

Aah ... well, that makes a lot more sense than I thought descriptions would - because usually Ni gets spoken about in such mysterious poetic allegory that it baffles my mind. You do sound a lot like my INFJ mom speaking about her intuitions [she's an INFJ as well and just as vocal about her opinions as you are] so I can totally relate.

The problem with me is that I know I'm *usually* right ... not always right. That would be arrogant on my part. The thing is that in my case [being Fe dominant], I'm much less likely to follow what my intuition tells me. I end up reverting to my Fe in almost all my interactions and that puts me in a situation where I feel trapped.

However, at the same time, I do have rare moments clouded by emotion where my Ni forces me to jump to wrong conclusions [maybe once every 100 times or so]. Thankfully those are rare. And almost non-existent when it comes to judging people's emotional states

Where things go wrong is judging intention of someone else's intentions towards me. That's where my intuition sometimes fails me. What I'm trying to get at is manipulation. With enough convincing, my intuition just stops working for some people. Almost like the lightbulb goes off. Allows for being abused [as it happened in my marriage] both verbally as well as financially. I wonder if that's true for INFJ's as well?

I was actually fearing making this post because I might get responses that I couldn't relate to. But I do relate.
Well, that is absolutely true of me. I had my moments of clarity after the divorce, and also during the times she would go to her parent's house for extended periods. So in the end, it was in those moments that I started to really believe the premonitions I was having about her emotionally cheating on me, and being brainwashed by her family.

It's really hard to do however. You see .. despite the intuition screaming that there's something wrong going on, I just want to point out that it's not even love that clouds judgement. It's something stronger than that. It's commitment to the goals that surround the individuals being manipulative. Let me explain.

If I know that I have a superior goal in mind that includes all the things that require me to fulfill my obligations to someone [Fe dominant], then I use my intuition in the favour of the other person ... trying, hoping, waiting for them to see reason and give me what I need - rather than actively asking for it. I assume that it's different for INFJ's where they may be more likely to actively accomplish what they need to make themselves happy, being introverted. I've seen many, many introverts find stronger coping mechanisms because their external needs are fewer than ours.

It's a hard business giving space from someone else in order to attain time to think, because even in that, the thoughts turn to how to mould ourselves to please the other person - not how to figure out ways to get out of a potentially negative situation. So even when there's space and isolation, it's usually spent thinking about how to change ourselves, and not to get to the truth of the other person's intentions.
That's all I could find right now.
 

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Hmmm ... Let me collect all my posts about my use of Ni on PerC and get back to you.
I thought about mentioning you in that post. I figured you'd have some good input. I think this thread is useful, it's sad it didn't get much feedback initially. Perhaps we could change that. I think the sub-forum could use a resource on Ni.
 
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Bump! I'm really curious about this myself. I know the INTJs and INFJs have explored this in some depth.

How do you think it differs for us in using it as an auxiliary function? How does it work in conjunction with Fe?

I feel as though I have a better grasp of how it operates with Te, but in general, I find it difficult to describe....

Does anyone have specific examples of Ni moments? I know they happen, but I always tend to lose sight of them. How do you think it operates in us?
To answer your questions specifically

For me, my Ni is always about giving me feedback about the other person's feelings ... judging them, figuring them out, intuitively being able to break apart their feelings with respect to how, why .. and then devise strategies on what next. It's about having a class of emotional intelligence. Knowing exactly what's needed when. Getting strong ideas about how to infuence other's behaviour in the least intrusive manner possible. Putting their feelings at the forefront of mine. Just knowing how to do it even down to knowing exactly what words I need to choose to verbalize what they would need in order to not feel violated by my input.

Does anyone have specific examples of Ni moments? I know they happen, but I always tend to lose sight of them. How do you think it operates in us?
I can never remember my Ni moments. They come naturally, I act and then they're gone. Till they happen again.

Many of my Ni moments are related to other people though .. so I can't really talk about them openly. The one thing I can say .. is just because I feel they're so personal, should indicate to you how intimately my Fe Ni works when it comes to my closest relations :/

One example I can give is that a member once came online to give me a "message". The minute I read the phrase "I have a message for you" ... I knew immediately who it was from and what the message was and I knew exactly how the story would pan out. I was able to protect myself from getting hurt, and also prevented a rift between friends by removing myself from the situation before it got too bad. That's how important my Ni is to me and that's how it works.
 

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However, at the same time, I do have rare moments clouded by emotion where my Ni forces me to jump to wrong conclusions [maybe once every 100 times or so]. Thankfully those are rare. And almost non-existent when it comes to judging people's emotional states
-Yes, I feel as though I can literally jump into someone else's perspective in an argument, but it doesn't come naturally when I'm emotionally charged. I have to stop myself and refocus in order to catch sight of my intuitive reflections.

-I was having a conversation with my INTJ tonight.....he said that "he loved how we just "get" each-other". Of course, it was rather ironic because this led to me saying that I believed it had to do with our mutual use of Ni which lead to some confusion in the differences in the ways that we utilize it. It seems that his dominant Ni and aux. Te allows him to trace his intuitive findings better.

In his case:

-He is able to derive the meanings of words by seeing them used in context (of course if the context is flawed....well....).

-Understanding how systems work, and explaining them, he is able to see the individual parts and able to explain how they each fit.

-An example of a frustrating topic for his Ni/Te: Pronunciation of words:
He struggles with pronunciation, because it isn't intuitive. There are too many inconsistencies. It drives him crazy.

In my case:

I have also come to believe that I "just know" things....but it isn't completely true. I don't "just know".....I've been observing patterns surrounding people for a long time. I'm interested in personal affairs, I remember conversations in detail, I remember the things that people say about themselves/their lives etc. I don't forget. In the realm of people affairs- I am driven to pay attention by Fe, and Ni is sitting silently in the background taking notes.

The problem with me is that I know I'm *usually* right ... not always right. That would be arrogant on my part. The thing is that in my case [being Fe dominant], I'm much less likely to follow what my intuition tells me. I end up reverting to my Fe in almost all my interactions and that puts me in a situation where I feel trapped.
I actually have an example of that. My INFJ friend has been seeing this guy for quite some time. They dated on and off and made poor decisions in relationships. She is still in love with him to an extent/still misses him. He has been giving her mixed signals, talking to her, saying he loves her, then saying he doesn't and never did. blech. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I want to make her happy. I want to tell her what she wants to hear....but somewhere deep down, I have this itching feeling that he is manipulating her, that something is just "not right". I don't know how to explain....in a point by point fashion why I know this....and my Fe usually reverts to giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I think, also, we pick up on tone/ word choice very easily. Our accuracy in interpreting peoples' motives is uncanny.


I found this on another ENFJ forum. Thanks to the ENFJ who wrote this out. As far as being an ENFJ in a social setting I think this hits the nail straight on the head. I feel as though I pick up on so many subtle negative social cues and I try so hard to make up for them…that it can be overstimulating and even overwhelming at times. Fe/Ni at work?

Now basically I see all of these options of what I could say to them.. but attached to each of them are not only their reactions to what I could say but also how their view of me will change. It’s like having a mirror held up to your face that you present and whenever your talking you get to see the changes instantly.

Now imagine this in a social setting with multiple people and all of these strands flowing into you. Each one trying to take in as much as possible. You feel like you have multiple mirrors and as you speak a new face is presented to each individual depending on their values, mood and every other factor that you could think of. The worst part is you can see all of these mirrors surrounding you and the changes that happen instantly whenever you speak.

In the past this has lead to paralysis in a social setting. Knowing that whatever you say will cause a change in perception- good or bad. Just this complete awareness can be so overwhelming and its taken me quite awhile to get a handle on it.


Note: @SilentScream I know you don't generally like to talk in terms of functions....but bear with me. :]
 
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In my case:

I have also come to believe that I "just know" things....but it isn't completely true. I don't "just know".....I've been observing patterns surrounding people for a long time. I'm interested in personal affairs, I remember conversations in detail, I remember the things that people say about themselves/their lives etc. I don't forget. In the realm of people affairs- I am driven to pay attention by Fe, and Ni is sitting silently in the background taking notes.

I think, also, we pick up on tone/ word choice very easily. Our accuracy in interpreting peoples' motives is uncanny.

Note: @SilentScream I know you don't generally like to talk in terms of functions....but bear with me. :]
No Issues at all :) I know a lot more about how functions work than I let on :) This is another example of my Fe Ni .. I don't wanna come across as knowing so much that it might cause too much debate. My interpretations of the functions is actually different from many people because I try to get to the depth of the language, the authenticity of the source and the tone of writing. I've noticed that some websites contain a very negative definition of Fe --- something that I can't relate to at all.

As for my use of my Fe Ni, I'll call up my most extensive thread on the subject [made before you became active]

Try to pick out the Ni from this post ... I didn't really focus too much on the Ni part of it all then .. but maybe you can pick up more as you're definitely better at spotting it than I am.

An Older thread about Fe-dom: http://personalitycafe.com/enfj-forum-givers/61378-fe-dom.html

That said ...

For me, Fe-dom is basically ensuring that an understanding of humanity at all levels exists in our own mind before we choose to interact with people. It's a preference for doing good deeds and becoming service oriented individuals. We become happy when others are happy. We take energy from positive interaction and lose energy in negative situations - It's not simply attention-seeking behaviour - or having scores of acquaintances and no close bonds.

Yes, I do have 1000's of people in my phone book ... but at a time I'm inclined to bond with 1 or 2 people and then ensure that that bond is mutual and understanding. Throughout my life, at most I've 2 best friends at a time ... maximum 3 ... the rest are acquaintances that I can call on from time to time just to check up on how they're doing.

An ENFJ's greatest weakness is not their selfish behaviour --- but the fact that when we feel incapable of NOT helping someone else, it creates a conflict in our minds as to how to help. But again, we're not irrational and we're able to see who needs help and who doesn't. Don't think of ENFJ's are knights in shining armour running blindly into the heat of battle looking to save fair maidens. ENFJ's are human tacticians, constantly thinking and understanding human behaviour.

Our sensory input is expressions, eye movements, hand gestures, sitting postures - and any sign of trouble can be gauged simply by looking at people. Then it's a simple matter of discovering what the issue is - and allowing the other person to themselves verbalize their own conflict - rather than shoving our opinions / judgments down their throats.

Armed with all this information about people lets us know exactly what to do, or say, or when to say and when to act. I'm sorry if I'm not really expressing myself clearly. What I'm try to say is that we just *know* when another person is not feeling good. But at the same time we also *know* when it would be appropriate to interfere or not. We usually look for cues that the person really requires help or not. We don't push it down their throats.

For me, I just simply stand around looking for people who would be interested in me. I rarely storm into a social situation all sparkly and full of energy. I draw energy from close, intimate interaction. It's just that when I get going, I get extremely excited extremely easily, and my tone of voice combined with knowledge is such that the entire feels compelled to listen. I also get a little shy when I realize that I'm getting *too* much attention. I blush when someone pays me a compliment. And I falter over my own words every now and then.

I'm at my best when I'm helping someone. It could be something as simple as moving - to something as complex as coaxing a cross dressing friend to finally don her skirt and step out in public and just be herself. Our giving comes with self-sacrifice [which is not always a good thing]. Once I was ill in bed with a high fever, but I got a call from a female acquaintance who had run out of fuel in her car [typical damsel in distress behaviour] ... but I could not help myself. I got up, changed, got in my car and helped her get gas so that she could be on her way. That's just one example of how Fe dom behaviour manifests itself.

I have 100's of examples of similar actions I've taken all my life .. not saying that I'm a freaking saint ... it's just that this is how I'm wired and I can't help it. That's what it really means to be Fe-dom ... give and finding happiness in just giving - without expecting anything in return.

People who seem manipulative, controlling, argumentative etc are basically unhealthy versions of Fe users -
@Crono's take on Fe in the same thread

Hmmm, I think that how I use the Fe depends a lot on what's going on.

- For one, if I'm teaching people about something, I use it to make sure that people are following and not eyes glossing over / confused.
- On the other hand, if I'm telling a story, I gauge peoples' reactions to see what parts of it, or what style of humour/etc. appeals to them.
- If I'm not participating in a situation directly, but am around a group of people, I use my Fe to get an idea for the patterns, mood and momentum of the group.

Needless to say, any of these examples are neither positive or negative. For example, I could be teaching people either nazi literature, or about why they should be concerned about the third world. I could also be scanning the mood of a room in order to capitalize on it for my own purposes, or I could be watching for negative social patterns so that I can nip them before they get out of control.

I think the thing about positive vs. negative ENFJs is that the negative ones stand out a lot more, and many people don't even notice the positive ones operating. (At least that's my opinion as to why the negative ones stand out more...that, and generally people tend to notice more quickly what's wrong than what's right)

[edit]

As for the 'fitting in' part, I think that it can be for a few reasons:

1) To me, it's really no different than learning to speak the language of a different country - even if you can get service in English, you're going to be generally more well-received if you make an effort to learn the local language and customs. Same thing goes for dealing with people in general - to me it's a sign of respect, not mindless comformity.

2) I'll be honest: Sometimes it's just flat-out bluffing. For instance, if I'm delivering pizza in a rough neighbourhood, I try to make my posture and attitude a little gruffer than if I'm delivering someone in a four star hotel. Not only are the tips better, but it's also the case that you don't want to come off as weak or nice if you're in a place where people might want to rob you.

3) Core self doesn't change. To me, I couldn't possibly care less about trivial matters like the length and colour of my hair, the clothes I wear or my style and manner of speech. (The way I get things across doesn't matter much, as long as it works). To me, the core me that's important has little to nothing to do with those things, and that's what doesn't change depending on the situation. While it's true that I show different people different sides, I rarely feel as though I'm misrepresenting myself. I'm also not sure if this is true for other ENFJs, but I've noticed that, generally speaking, my idea of "identity" is a lot looser than most peoples'. ie What the "minimum" of one's core self really is. I'm not particularly attached to a lot of things people would normally identify as part of their "sense of self", and I don't see many of those things as particularly important.

On a completely unrelated note: Am I the only one who sees this when people are talking about Fe-dom?
Now .. for the Ni part.

I have to admit that for me Ni does work a lot like Si ... the difference being that the input is very much emotional more abstract in the sense that it follows no set patterns. I don't know what gets stored and why as I don't make a conscious effort to do so. It's like flashes of bubbles that get stored away, rather than linear thought, or memories. Now I don't even know which bubbles I can call on and pop. Certain future situations make these bubbles pop and it's an instant moment of understanding which is what I call just "knowing". This is what I believed is referred to as the "A-ha" moment by many people.

I see it as being unable to control memory recall.
 

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I see it as being unable to control memory recall.
I'll respond to the former part of your post in a bit, but I think I may have been a bit unclear about my observance of patterns. It isn't on a concious level.

I'm just suggesting, that on a sub-concious level, we are picking up on patterns. I think what we pick up is determined mostly by our Fe. I'm not always aware of the specific pathways to my conclusions, I'm just saying that they have to come from somewhere....and this is how I think they develop. I'm certainly not aware of the things I pick up on in the moment.
 
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I'll respond to the former part of your post in a bit, but I think I may have been a bit unclear about my observance of patterns. It isn't on a concious level.

I'm just suggesting, that on a sub-concious level, we are picking up on patterns. I think what we pick up is determined mostly by our Fe. I'm not always aware of the specific pathways to my conclusions, I'm just saying that they have to come from somewhere....and this is how I think they develop. I'm certainly not aware of the things I pick up on in the moment.
Hmm .. then I think we're on the same page, but coming from a different angle if you know what I mean. Describing the same thing in a different way then, using different words. I didn't think you were talking about being able to be fully selective about the situations you recalled - perhaps I gave off the wrong impression then.
 

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Armed with all this information about people lets us know exactly what to do, or say, or when to say and when to act. I'm sorry if I'm not really expressing myself clearly. What I'm try to say is that we just *know* when another person is not feeling good. But at the same time we also *know* when it would be appropriate to interfere or not. We usually look for cues that the person really requires help or not. We don't push it down their throats.
It seems like you're most obviously describing the Ni here.
 
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I think that Ni for me is that little voice in the back of my head that goes "Well, it might be this" even though I might not be able to explain exactly why it could be immediately. To really be able to "brute force" through a lot of possibilities, like Ni-doms seem to do more naturally, I need time alone to reflect on things to be able to do this. Ni, for me, as an aux, is more of a singular possibility interruption at a time, rather than a constant stream of possibilities.

Ni is also the thing that makes me say things like (3 seconds after the introduction of a cute new character): Well she's going to die. Or go evil. (She went evil and then died). They also tempt me into bad puns, and that's what she said jokes, since I invariably think of other ways to interpret things as they're being said.

Still, my N is more distinct than any of my other traits by quite a bit, so I think those interruptions come to me a little more often than they might for the average ENFJ, to the point where it's distracting to both me and other people. In High School, my reputation for puns was so well-known, that when I gave a speech at graduation, while everyone else got polite applause as they were walking up to the mic, I got moans and "Oh God here come the puns". I only made one pun in my toast to the education board about their admirable job despite "de-Kline-ing" funding, no pun intended. (A small percentage of people who appreciate Canadian provincial politics may appreciate that).

I even have a tendency to make peanut gallery comments at myself while I am in the middle of speaking about something, which can sometimes degenerate into me having an odd conversation with myself about multiple points of view in the middle of talking to a group about something. (Somehow it works for me)

Again, this is probably a bit of an "overactive" Ni thing going on.
 

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IHi, 'm new, and wanted to jump in here. I've been coming these forums for a while and figured I needed to get a membership already. :)

For me personally, my Ni is well developed, to the point where I can tend to drive my loved ones a little crazy, Sometimes (and only with my immediate family) I will verbalize intuitive opinions I have formed about a person that we all know. My parents tend to appreciate these verbalized opinions more than my brother and sister do. My parents see my intuitive remarks about people sometimes as right on, and other times as pessimistic...although generally I tend to be right in the long run. Sometimes they will even remark, "I never thought of it that way, but yes, I do think that is why this person behaves this way." My brother and sister get a bit more annoyed with it more than anything, which is completely understandable. My brother is an ISFP so I tend to curb the intuitive remarks, which he sees as judgmental more than anything.
 

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IHi, 'm new, and wanted to jump in here. I've been coming these forums for a while and figured I needed to get a membership already. :)
Welcome to the forum :)

I'm so glad you decided to join us. Hope you have fun here. We are a lively bunch - most of the times :D But you know that already.
 

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Sometimes I second guess it with people. I'll tell myself "You're reading too much into that" or "You probably just misinterpreted them". But then later my intuition is proved to be spot on. It's often when someone is up to no good. Or if someone is attracted to me I will sometimes know it without them saying anything or being touchy or flirty, but again I have second guessed it in the past, later to be proved right. I guess I should be trusting my intuition more.

With some things I will get that feeling that I know what is going to happen or I know an answer to a question or quiz without actually knowing why I know. I'm still learning to make that connection quicker though. Once you do make the connection it is a pretty cool feeling.
 

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IHi, 'm new, and wanted to jump in here. I've been coming these forums for a while and figured I needed to get a membership already. :)

For me personally, my Ni is well developed, to the point where I can tend to drive my loved ones a little crazy, Sometimes (and only with my immediate family) I will verbalize intuitive opinions I have formed about a person that we all know. My parents tend to appreciate these verbalized opinions more than my brother and sister do. My parents see my intuitive remarks about people sometimes as right on, and other times as pessimistic...although generally I tend to be right in the long run. Sometimes they will even remark, "I never thought of it that way, but yes, I do think that is why this person behaves this way." My brother and sister get a bit more annoyed with it more than anything, which is completely understandable. My brother is an ISFP so I tend to curb the intuitive remarks, which he sees as judgmental more than anything.
Welcome AndHearts!!! We don't (always) bite! :D
 

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So, do a lot of you use it for abstract math? lol
I was inherently good with probabilities, combinations and permutations questions. Could figure them out with relative ease.

Also MCQs are extremely easy as well.

Lastly, Fe Ni combined allowed me figure out exactly what each teacher would ask in an exam and I was right 90% of the time.

School was a breeze and my intuition had a huge role to play in it.
 

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I was inherently good with probabilities, combinations and permutations questions. Could figure them out with relative ease.
I was absolutely HORRIBLE with these. My brain could not accept the simplicity. I overcomplicated all of the problems. Me and my ENTJ friend had a running competition for grades/classes. In the long run I won. ;]. However, when it came to perms and coms.... he won. :dry:
 
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Ni... mmmMmm... I love my Ni...

Ni helps puts me in other people's shoes. See what they see and feel what they feel. Helps me understand people just by being them perhaps and putting myself in the same circumstances.

It also helps put me in my own world when coupled with my Fe. I get in there and using perhaps the same way as the above paragraph, create very realistic people who respond realistically to different situations. I'm credited for writing good scripts cause of it.

I wonder how could I ever live without this...
 
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