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Enfp 5?

[Enneagram Type 5] 
21K views 76 replies 37 participants last post by  Tetsuo Shima 
#1 ·
I met a dude the other day that claimed to be an ENFP 5? Is that even possible?
 
#2 ·
I know if I were to develop Ne to where it's considered normal for INTP, I'd look more like an ENFP with really developed Ti. I dunno though, most 5s I've seen are introverted.
 
#3 ·
Exactly, and 5's are almost unanimously thinking types. The only non-thinking type that I have ever seen test as a 5 is an INFJ.
 
#12 ·
I don't know. I've never really read that comic book before. He would be a truly remarkable specimen if he was though.
 
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#14 ·
Yeah, I guess they could always be an integrated type 7.
 
#26 ·
I met a dude the other day that claimed to be an ENFP 5? Is that even possible?​
Well, I think it's possible considering ENFP's are the most introverted out of the extraverts. They may be a 6w5 or 4w5 with a strong 5-wing. I once met somebody who claimed to be an ESTJ Four LOL.
 
#29 ·
That's what I was going to conjecture.
 
#31 ·
You special snowflake you.

I actually don't think it's conceptually counter-intuitive. My ENFP friend, while being a "people person", loves one-on-one conversations and gets excited... by Latin. She's very much an intellectual.
 
#33 ·
Kozy, you need to be killed mercilessly, immediately and without any hesitance. You asked for it. You must want it so badly :tongue:

I'm starting to think I'm more 5w6 than 5w4, I prefer to think I'm a 5wB, because it seems more descriptive for me. I'm going to admit that labeling myself with INFJ was not in my plan actually, mostly because of my not very well developed Fe (my order is more like Ni-Ti-Fi-Fe-Ne-Si-Te-Se, something like that), I'm considering INTP as possible too... I'm still trying to break this whole thing apart.
 
#39 ·
#42 ·
I'm 5w4, likely an ENFP, and my tritype COULD very well be 594 (I'm not sure though)? Plus I am socially introverted, not really a people person, somewhat reserved, and 90% of the ENFP descriptions don't fit me at all. I should be in the Guinness book of world records for that. Seriously.
 
#52 ·
This is possible. You can be a deep thinker and still be an Extrovert... this is more common with NTs. With NFs this is possible also usually focusing more on idealistic social/morality issues... but ENFPs look at the connections, they deeply contemplate, and have passion for this (idealistic social/morality concepts) type of thinking. 5 with some type of wings would make sense to me for an ENFP.
 
#54 ·
I think being an FiNe type and a 5 makes me super over analyze people and their intentions. I over-analyze myself and why I do what i do and who I want to be and sometimes even how to do that even though I don't often follow through with things. I always want to get to the WHY, but the why has to do more with intentions than facts.
 
#56 ·
I think being an FiNe type and a 5 makes me super over analyze people and their intentions.... I always want to get to the WHY, but the why has to do more with intentions than facts.
Another INFP 5w4 here! :D I thought I was a 9 for the longest time, but realized recently I talked the 9 withdrawn traits into 5, talked 9 Holy Love in to 5 Holy Omniscience. I think an easy pitfall for a feeler as so many 5 descriptions speak directly toward NeTi, but NeFi is not a stretch at all--

Here is a snippet from Jung's description of Introverted Feling
"[Fi] strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence...
Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately [p. 491]."
(III. 3. Feeling: Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10)

Most of the description I just quoted from sound very 9ish. I think we can disregard that because of how much Jung obviously informed his description of Fi by his experiences with a few women who were very likely 9s. (otherwise perhaps wellbehaved 4s or 5s) Section 4 begins"It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women...") For all intensive purposes, I think that overtone really ought really to be disregarded. What's important here is that the Fi process according to Jung shares with Ti what seems critical in the instance of the 5: that pivot from perceptions (in this case Ne) in to the mind; the development of a wall between the external and internal.

While it would make sense, ostensibly, that type 5 would be more common in the INFP where Fi use is more prominent, it seems to me that an ENFP (perhaps with a particularly strong Fi) might do the same.

Yeah?
 
#62 ·
Hi :)! I know it's really rare and shocking but the world is filled with /everything/!
Yes, we are quite possible. Not every type five is going to act cold, so don't let that stereotypes fool you.
As for some other quick run down of traits, I actually am quite terrified of the real world. I'm not agoraphobic but I do tend to just shut everything out and tend to think of more intriguing things that I'm interested in, so 'why are people the way that they are' and 'how did this person die' are really interesting (I swear I'm not a sadist, I'm just interested in weird shit lol).
This also fits me a lot too :)!
" Level 5: Increasingly detached as they become involved with complicated ideas or imaginary worlds. Become preoccupied with their visions and interpretations rather than reality. Are fascinated by off-beat, esoteric subjects, even those involving dark and disturbing elements. Detached from the practical world, a "disembodied mind," although high-strung and intense."
I used to think I was a 6w5 or a 4w5 but neither sounded right. When I get down to the core of myself and interests, it's PURELY for knowledge / security.
My variants are SP/SO/SX so....
And while I don't think it's quite related (it could be, I'm new to enneagram but I'm dead set on being 5w4), I feel more at ease with INTP and INTJ people because they know how to quench my thirst, so to speak.
That's all I can think about, honestly!
 
#63 ·
I'm an ENFP 5 wing 4! How it's possible...I'm still trying to figure out. XD
But I think my type accurately describes me - 5 4 9
I simply have learned in order to reach my goals, and be an influence, I have to work with people. Along with that, I really enjoy "collecting knowledge" through understanding other people, in observation and interaction. ENFPs are the most introverted extroverts...they need alone time to get their thoughts together. The last thing I am is the enfp stereotype of a ditsy pixie dream girl. I dream, but it's rational, but I'm able to use my intuition to improve my knowledge and expand my effectivity and accuracy. So...I don't know about a straight "5", but 5 wing 4 definitely fits me. ;)
 
#65 ·
Is the ditzy dream girl the sole description of Enneagram 7? I guess Fi wouldn't like it very much so I can see why it would not be embraced. And how is it that you choose the PIT of the Enneagram (double withdrawn type according to Horney) as your residence when you have in fact chosen ENFP and not INFP? Collecting knowledge is not exclusively the domain of E5...head types 5,6,7 all have intellectual prowess, along with ALL other E types. This seems to be a feature exclusively of Ne doms, who think they are introverts, when in fact their MBTI type says otherwise...unless somehow the more introverted INFP does not actually exist, along with INTP, INFJ and INTJ. If ENFP is the NEW standard for the highly avariced 5, then where do the introverted intuitives go? No Ne dom has yet answered this question when posed. Ne-Fi is not going to look like Ti-Ne or Ni-Te. Ne-Fi-Te wants to connect with people and explore options/possibilities and new insights/ideas...the ambivert conundrum results from auxiliary Fi or Ti, both of which causes introspection regarding personal (subjective) values or personal (subjective) logic.

Ti-Si (INTP), Ni-Fi (INTJ) and Ne-Te (ENFP) are not the same as evidenced by the dominant-tertiary expression of all three. The dom-tert of INTP/INTJ are both introverted, while the dom-tert of ENFP are both extroverted. Simply put...the ENFP will want to embrace the object, idea or person and examine/organize positive possibilities (Ne-Te), and if values are ever called into question, introspection will ensue...but it will not be permanent. The very nature of Ne is to jump to and fro as ideas explode into other ideas in the present...it is divergent, expanding, connecting and absent a strong judging function, maladroit at coming to a speedy, decisive conclusion. It wants to share with others via Te or Fe and examine more possibilities. Feeling boxed-in, without options, boredom, repetition, the mundane and routine are avoided. This is why Dominant Ne has a flighty, scatter-brained, indecisive and frenetic quality to it. If you don't identify with that, then Ne dom might not be your home.

It is the same silly pattern with Ne doms...always the same. Extroverts are not introverts...introverts don't recharge, which is the biggest myth about introverts. Introverts project and then retract. Extroverts crash and then bounce back. ENFP's "need" people and need at least a modicum of external stimulation...introverts "choose" to be with people, and often reluctantly...the inner world is much more satisfying...they see less of a reward in the external world than extroverts (dopamine tolerance). If you don't identify with the preceding sentence, then you are likely an INFP and not an ENFP. There is a difference. An ENFP vs. INTP/INTJ in a room will be pretty distinguishable...and it won't take very long. I'm the most "extroverted" introvert (INFJ) and there is absolutely no chance in hell that I would ever see myself as an extrovert or an "ambivert". Finally the Fudjack/Geldert studies found NO correlation of ENFP at Enneagram 5...the IF value was ZERO. Enneagram types 2,3,7 (with E5 as the integration point when healthy and focused) and 8 were the primary zones, with 7 being the most prevalent (IF value > 3).

The Distribution of Reported MBTI Types Across Enneazones, and S-Blindness

A Third Principle Governing the Distribution of MBTI Type Across the Enneagram

Finally Horney's Directional Theory on both E4 and E5...the combination (4w5/5w4) of which reinforce each other and represents a double withdrawn type that is entirely prone to high avarice (hermit type existence). That is why 4w5/5w4 is known as the PIT of the Enneagram. It is the most withdrawn according to theory.

Also take particular note of the "chronic feeling of something missing/missing out/idealism" quality of Enneagram 7, which undoubtedly gets confused with E4 issues. The difference is that 4, 5 and 9 are all introverted, withdrawn types, with 4 and 5 both moving away from others to protect self-image/gain knowledge. Enneagram Sevens move toward others and embrace them (like ENFP/ Ne-Te). They move away underneath (Fi/Ti). That is why the best fit for Ne dominant ENFP is at type 7 and not 4 or 5. They are head types, with quick brains and inventive ideas.



Type 4: the withdrawn ideal-seeker. 0/0

The 4’s surface and deep compulsions both move away from the environment, making them the most introspective, individualistic type of all. This doubly-withdrawn compulsion gives the 4 an unusual freedom; they are psychologically less bound by the real-world constraints that other types feel. This freedom makes them highly original and creative, and highly attuned to the emotional nuances that other types block out in order to deal with practical life. However, this freedom also gives rise to the average 4’s self-absorption and alienation from ordinary life. Like the other ideal-seekers, the 4 seeks a utopian ideal that makes reality forever seem inadequate. All the ideal-seekers feel a chronic sense of "something missing", which in the 4 applies to their inner life. The 4’s ideals are withdrawn and intensely personal, making the 4 the romantic idealist as opposed to the 1’s practical idealism.

Type 5: the withdrawn power-seeker. 0/-

The 5 moves away from others on the surface, but against others underneath. Hence, average 5s may seem apathetic and laconic on the surface, but underneath they are not as detached as they act. The power-seeking drive seeks control, and is fearful of being overwhelmed and losing control. The withdrawn types by definition conserve physical energy, and so 5s prefer intellectual or strategic endeavors over active labor. Like all power-seekers, the 5 often acquires a "sphere" of influence and a strong sense of owning this sphere. The 5’s sphere is usually mental, as opposed to the 2’s social sphere and the 8’s worldly sphere. Detachment from emotion and environmental awareness (inferior Fe/subconscious Se), highest avarice/witholding of self (mentally, emotionally, physically). Stinginess, fear of being overwhelmed or swallowed up by others. Keep others out...the castle, the moat, the ivory tower where knowledge is king and keeps one safe.

Type 7: the embracing ideal-seeker. +/0

The 7 embraces the world on the surface, but moves away from it underneath. So while the 7 seems focused on enjoying the real world, their mind is actually attending to a glorious fantasy of how things could be even better. Like the 1 and 4, the 7’s unbounded fantasies make the real world seem forever inadequate by comparison, leading to a chronic feeling of "something missing", or in the 7’s case, of having "missed out" on something. However, the 7’s disappointments are often hidden behind their embracing exterior, which has a large capacity for positive, appreciative emotions. Like the other ideal-seekers, the 7 is satisfied only with the best of whatever they become interested in. However, because they have so many positive feelings for so many things, they may start to define "best" in terms of quantity rather than quality. The 7’s inspiration-seeking qualities are under-recognized, because many view the 7 as a glutton, seeking merely to consume everything in sight. However, the 7’s higher aspirations are evident in creations such as Mozart’s extraordinary music, or the "Camelot" ideals and lunar mission inspired by President Kennedy.

Directional Theory
 
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#66 ·
I am also an ENFP 5w4, but have been mistyped as 7w6 for a long time. This combination might seem to be pretty rare, but i bet that there are more ENFP 5s than we'd assume. No combination is impossible and i can assure you that i'm most definitely an ENFP. I never considered myself a 5w4 before because everybody on the forums say that ENFP 5s just can't exist, and since i was not very familiar with the enneagram, i believed what all the others are saying. But here i am, ENFP 5w4 and nobody can say that i am mistyped when there isn't anyone one on here who knows me in real life :)
 
#69 ·
This is the same thing that Ne dominant ENFP females ALWAYS say to defend themselves...almost verbatim. If you are so introverted, then why do you see yourself as ENFP and not INFP? ENFPs are not like INTJ-INTP or INFJs for that matter. As an ENFP, you need to connect with others...you are emotional...you like to tell stories...you enjoy empowering others...you sometimes don't have a good filter for letting people in that are not good for you...or letting them go for that matter. As an ENFP you enjoy people...you like to think out loud and with others. ENFPs will move toward others...not away from them. They will be comfortable with emotional expression and social engagement, unless they have social shyness (social introversion). By comparison, INTPs and INTJs are markedly different when it comes to the social arena and emotional expression. They don't move toward others.

As an INFJ 4w5 sp/sx, I have a best friend who I have not seen in probably five years...otherwise, my siblings mark my social circle...when I do see them that is. I am content with this. I am content being alone. I am content not answering a cellphone. I am comfortable with isolation, even if it gets lonely once and awhile. I find excuses not to see people or go places. I am content with my preoccupation with self. I have room for ONE person...as a romantic attachment, otherwise I prefer to be the loner-romantic-pragmatist that I am. I have enough going on in my life...I don't really require people to fill it in any way. It is easy to indentify with the lovely type descriptions proffored for 5w4, but those things come at a considerable cost...avarice, detachment, isolation, emotional subjagation, keeping other people out for fear of being overwhelmed/swallowed up, and habitual observation without engagement...a paralysis of thinking over experiential engagement. For E5, the world is viewed from the outside, as it passes them by. They want to come in but they don't exactly know how. They are too caught up in the observation of it all. They are most likely to feel isolated in a sea of people. They are more comfortable in their fish-bowl.

The Fudjack study found no ENFPs at E5...for the reasons mentioned in the last paragraph, I find it very likely. Avarice (witholding of self), detachment, isolation, emotional subjugation and a "castle" mentality marks E5. I don't see how this fits an outgoing ENFP who likes to connect with others. If you don't like to connect with others then you might more likely be INFP and not ENFP. Extraverts and "ambiverts" are not introverts. The difference? Introverts know who they are and what they are not.
 
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