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Discussion Starter #1
Feel free to answer even if you're not an ENFP. Due to personal interest i put this in the ENFP subforum.

What kind of criticism to you prefer? Polite? Strict? Straight up honest? As nice as possible?
Basically what's the worst way to criticize you and what is the best?
How do you react when you are criticized (depending on the type of criticism)?




If a thread similar to this topic already exists I would be thankful to have a look at it.
 

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Feel free to answer even if you're not an ENFP. Due to personal interest i put this in the ENFP subforum.

What kind of criticism to you prefer? Polite? Strict? Straight up honest? As nice as possible?
Basically what's the worst way to criticize you and what is the best?
How do you react when you are criticized (depending on the type of criticism)?




If a thread similar to this topic already exists I would be thankful to have a look at it.
What kind of criticism to you prefer? Polite? Strict? Straight up honest? As nice as possible?
I like polite criticism that is as blunt and honest as possible. Does that make sense?
Anything that is not honest is insulting.

Criticism should be provided in a civilized manner if we ask for it. If we didn't ask for criticism, please don't criticize. It can definitely come off obnoxious.

If you see something you feel could use improvement, you can start off with something like: "Hey, I like this and that, but if you don't mind, I'd like to provide some suggestions..." or if it's about a negative trait of that specific ENFP's character, you can start off with something like: "I'd appreciate it if you take my feelings into account, but your behavior right now..."

Basically what's the worst way to criticize you and what is the best?
The worst criticisms I've received and personally seen are ones from...

The Internet: Usually from Ti doms and Ti aux.

These people provide criticism so rude, abrupt and straight up insult you even if you're a stranger ("You're an idiot." "This was beyond stupid.")
An example was when I typed a character as an ISFJ and this ENTP chick thinks that character is an ENFJ and she reblogged my post with a full on rampage of what I described above.



Note: I have never once spoken to this person. Would you talk like this to a stranger you just met in real life?
Unless you want to get socked in the face, no.

When I privately messaged her pointing this out, her response was:

"Are you seriously telling me you're so damn fragile, that you're offended by blah blah blah."

I had an INTP male (who looks like he lives in his mother's basement fyi) insult me inside out about how I'm a "whore" and "uninteresting sexually" block me because I was an "annoying ENFP."

This kind of criticism is aggressive/blatantly rude, it comes off trolling and childish. I don't care about anything you might have to say to me at that point. You've lost my respect and your own credibility.

In real life: Te doms and Te aux.

Aha, yeah if you have an xSTJ manager or boss, the way they go around about bossing you around is very rude (in a hustling Te way) and off putting.

I'm not saying they're all like this, but if you value social graces and have inferior sensing function, this can be very grating and can build resentment in the long run.

How do you react when you are criticized (depending on the type of criticism)?
The bad criticism I demonstrated above: I'll probably snap back and then dismiss you.

But good criticism that are genuine are respected and taken into account by me.

The good news about ENFPs is that dominant Ne forces us (even if it pisses us off at first) to be introspective and consider ALL perspectives. If we don't, we start doubting ourselves.
That's what differentiates us from Fi doms (INFP and ISFP) and ESFP.
We're not as quick to jump on the volatility and curse you out when we're insulted or criticized.
 

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It’s easy with Fi to feel like your whole self is wrong. So I appreciate it when people are careful when they give criticism to make it constructive and explain what behavior or action would be welcome instead. I might not have seen whatever needed to be improved before. I also really appreciate it when people say something that makes me know that I am accepted as a person but that one thing could change or one thing could be better and here’s how it could be better.

For instance:
Other person:” I love spending time with you, but I don’t like that subject we talked about last time. I loved it when we did X, and can we do that more?”
Me: “Absolutely”

This is just good feedback that makes it clear that I am wanted, needed, liked and let’s me know what they like and want.

I don’t think it’s right for people to not communicate when they aren’t happy with something, then it builds up and can make that person not want to spend time with me or sometimes triangulate and talk bad about you or whatever. So that’s dishonest and unfair. That’s a much bigger tragedy. They didn’t even give the person a chance to improve. I can work with bluntness for sure and every time when it comes with a “I love you and want time with you,” then i am grateful for the feedback to improve. Being up-front and honest are very important qualities to me in myself and the other person. Knowing exactly where you stand with someone is important. If the place I stand at is “I Love you, hate your ( put something here.) and I want things this other way”. Then I can work with that. Of course I’m talking about close friendships and family. People who would change for me too.

At work the underlying message needs to be something about being pleased with my work in general, just need to work on x”. That’s something I can work with.

I really do need to know it’s not a message about all of me or their attitude towards me in general and if people make sure to communicate that underlying message then good. If not, I doubt this relationship or job will work for me anyway, actually.
 

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There's a line between bluntness and cruelty, yes. I end up on either side of it.

When it happens unintentionally, it's the lack of filter. I tell you what I think in the moment. This includes "you're an idiot" (coming out of nowhere for you, because everything before is in my head). And I can always only apologise for hurting you, never for saying it, because it was true in the sense that I meant it. Definitely strains relationships. People around me suffer through my abrasiveness. It doesn't help that being dissatisfied makes me speak out, but being content does not, which means I come across as negative. I'm working on this thing where you also tell people what they did well. I hear it's popular :rolleye:

When it happens intentionally ... well, that's extremely rare, but if I'm really pissed off, and had time to prepare (e.g., it's delivered in writing), it tears you to shreds. There's nothing constructive left, it's just a nuclear bomb going off.


Being on the receiving end, in turn, is ... eh. It's not a pleasant thing, but I get over it soon enough, and I don't think I ever tossed criticism aside because of the way it was delivered. I toss it aside plenty because I think I know better. But not really because it was destructive or supposed to hurt. Content matters, not messaging.

The nicest form of criticism is a written list, I think. No waffling around, just bullet points of this and this and this is wrong and doesn't work. Means I don't have to respond at once and can think about it, and address the points one by one. I can adapt, though. Basically any form ultimately works; a long, meandering introduction to make it "easier" tries my patience, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The worst criticisms I've received and personally seen are ones from...

The Internet: Usually from Ti doms and Ti aux.

These people provide criticism so rude, abrupt and straight up insult you even if you're a stranger ("You're an idiot." "This was beyond stupid.")
An example was when I typed a character as an ISFJ and this ENTP chick thinks that character is an ENFJ and she reblogged my post with a full on rampage of what I described above.



Note: I have never once spoken to this person. Would you talk like this to a stranger you just met in real life?
Unless you want to get socked in the face, no.

When I privately messaged her pointing this out, her response was:

"Are you seriously telling me you're so damn fragile, that you're offended by blah blah blah."

I had an INTP male (who looks like he lives in his mother's basement fyi) insult me inside out about how I'm a "whore" and "uninteresting sexually" block me because I was an "annoying ENFP."

This kind of criticism is aggressive/blatantly rude, it comes off trolling and childish. I don't care about anything you might have to say to me at that point. You've lost my respect and your own credibility.
Thanks a lot for you indeph answer. More than I expected (in the most positive way possible).

The stories about the ENTP and INTP are not even about criticism. Just immature rambling of people who have no idea how to communicate properly and seem to get mad over nothing really. I agree losing respect and dismissing the person is all you can really do in a situation like that.

In real life: Te doms and Te aux.

Aha, yeah if you have an xSTJ manager or boss, the way they go around about bossing you around is very rude (in a hustling Te way) and off putting.
Yes the hustling Te can be very unsympathetic indeed. Got to work on that.
 

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Yes the hustling Te can be very unsympathetic indeed. Got to work on that.
Hey, I think it's cool that you're taking the time to ask for our input and opinions. It tells me you care enough and are taking somebody or a group of people's feelings into account.

That's amazing. Feel free to keep asking us (or me) anything.
 

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I generally welcome and seek criticism, if not directly then indirectly by gauging reactions and adjusting my behavior if necessary.
I agree with @Llyralen, when it's someone I care/look up to/love/admire and generally are close to, I prefer if their criticism (even if blunt) comes with some validation, because it's easy for their opinion to unravel in a full episode of self-questioning and feeling like everything is wrong. Sometimes this is a good thing, other times it's bad. However, if someone is being polite just to manipulate my feelings, I'll know, thought it may not matter in the end.

I happen to be surrounded more by T types, family and friends and I've come to accept that their form of validation many times is not by being vocal, but just the mere act of choosing to associate/socialize/spend time/ etc with me. I think this is a challenge between T and F communication that often leaves many Fs feeling unsatisfied and Ts confused. In my experience, unfortunately, TJs tend to be far less sensitive and use speech that is more abusive, because they want their will to be done and a usual route for this is to hit where it hurts specifically. TPs will do this only when they're super mad, in my experience.

The times I get annoyed by criticism is when the person comes to me from their subjective point of view, and having little to no will to actually understand mine and make constructive criticism. 99% of the time, these people are Js and they just want to have control, either directly to achieve their goal or to just make sure there's no divergence from what they view is right.

The most caring and constructive criticism I've received so far has been from NTPs and my ESFP friends, and they're not always polite about it, but it works. My TJ family members on the other hand.. nope. So I guess it boils down to perspective.

I did have an ETJ classmate in college who was pretty good at this tho, I don't want to say all Js will always suck at this for me, but perhaps because of the dynamic of our personalities it is rare for this to work well.
 

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I don't care if someone is blunt, just don't be a dick about it. I'd rather hear all the problems people have with me than watch them be passive aggressive assholes. The issue I seem to have most is a conflict of interest. I haven't gotten close to one person yet who meshes well with my interests and area of influence, which sucks.

"The true loneliness is nobody understands you." That one rings true with me...
 

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I like it blunt. Just say it how it is if you noticed I need improvement or could have done "it" better/ differently. Just don't ever say it in a condescending way unless you want a foot up your ... lol. And don't ever be indirect, it will annoy me and for some reason make me question if I can trust you.
 

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I will quote my reply from here :

A bit like secondpassing, it depends on the intent of the user of the criticism. After all a criticism is merely a tool. One which can be used either to help the subject of criticism to growth, or used to bring down the subject of the criticism and wither their self.
I enjoy the former use and I loathe the latter one.
I will develop because it is not truly the whole scope of how I react to criticism.

I think that criticism in itself will always be a weak point of mine. Because I believed that no one is a better judge to my own self than myself I was pretty guarded about other point of views on myself. But I understood that the intent and way to deliver the criticism was what makes the difference.
I'm better receptive to an honest and informative approach, where the person explain their opinion on the matter, and let me reflect on my own afterwards or brainstorm with me for solutions to improve, or give me their solutions if I ask.

If the person come at me expecting to simply agree and do as they says, or worse try to bully me into it....big chance I will simply stubbornly argue my way even if deep down I can objectively see the merit of their criticisms. Not very mature but that the honest answer here. A "don't give me orders, say out my business, does I go about your own business myself ?" attitude.

In short to reply your questions @Kommandant :

-"What kind of criticism to you prefer?" : The one coming from a genuine interest to myself and allowing me to self reflect and grow.

-"Basically what's the worst way to criticize you and what is the best?" : The worst way is the "You are (not)/do(not do) XYZ, now change it to ABC ways, I says so".The best way is "You are (not)/do(not do) XYZ in my opinion, can we discuss it to find ways for both improvement and better understanding of each others ?"

-"How do you react when you are criticized (depending on the type of criticism)?" Depend on if I recognise the good intent of the other person, and if it pertain to something that can be impacting themselves too. Also, if the other can only give criticism but won't take any, I would be irritated because there is an inequality.

I usually don't deliver criticisms if not asked (if I do, something is very off and a big warning sign that I'm off balance or the other crossed a deep value), I prefer to explain how I perceive the situation, what can be the different impacts of this situation, solutions if the other party ask for it, and let them do how they want. At least, they know and can't pretend no one wanted to tell them anything and shift the blame.

Hope it helps !

Edit : Ah yes, also the "Let's discuss as good friends => the person barely know you, process to beat around the bush, so you lose time trying to figure what is the matter (turning more and more uncomfortable), and they try to bring yourself to do some sort of mea culpa and conform to whatever idea they have, and pretend they do it for someone else/the group when in fact it's because it self reflect badly on them and/or they want you to behave as theywish or cater to their emotions"
I would rather take infinite amount of "You did it, that's not how to do it, here how to do it, now do it" than one single of this sort of "criticism" above.
 

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@Kommandant


What kind of criticism to you prefer? Polite? Strict? Straight up honest? As nice as possible?
Basically what's the worst way to criticize you and what is the best?
How do you react when you are criticized (depending on the type of criticism)?



Polite - honest would be the type of criticism that is most useful and I highly doubt this is type related. Highly doubt anyone enjoys or want to change if somebody was to yell/scream or nit pick their flaws for no reason
I also find a being blunt different than being honest

I tend to tell a person what’s wrong with them in a kind and calm manner - and my point does get across .

Example my estp son is easily excitable and impulsive when finishing his words or jumping into conclusions or he would sometimes cross the line with words

Instead of snapping at him “ you are so rude - you are so annoying , how dare you do that “

I would tell him “ you know there is a difference between playing around and being disrespectful right ? “ and explain to him how disrespectful can hurt or offend someone’s feelings and I know you’re not a disrespectful child “


When it comes to finishing his work sloppily I would either remind him of a time he did something precisely or provide the information of
“ you don’t win by being the fastest - look at your end results - what do you think looks better something you put time to work on precisely or something you rush through without thinking ?”

If somebody was to ask me what that can fix about themselves or what’s wrong with them - I list out their positive traits first - and then tell them what could be improved

I used to criticize harshly when anger - however after 19 I learned that nobody enjoys hearing their flaws ( even if it’s true ) and there are kinder more effective ways to say things . In the end you want the person to realize and want to improve themselves not tell them what to do.


I prefer honesty ( keep in mind honesty not bluntness ) kind manners as well, I treat others the way I want to be treated
 

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Honestly probably none of the above, depending on the source. Am I seeking critique on an art endeavour? Please give me a blunt and honest report, no worries. Am I just trying to do my job and as far as I know I'm doing it quite well? Then please be extremely polite in whatever your request is, and if you attempt any bossing around - I will do the opposite of what you ask.
 

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Honestly probably none of the above, depending on the source. Am I seeking critique on an art endeavour? Please give me a blunt and honest report, no worries. Am I just trying to do my job and as far as I know I'm doing it quite well? Then please be extremely polite in whatever your request is, and if you attempt any bossing around - I will do the opposite of what you ask.
Yup, I relate.

This was the exact problem I had with my ESTJ boss before I quit my work this summer.
 
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