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Again I’m not referring to myself- any type can party hardcore or use drugs and I honestly don’t find flaw in people who engaged in those activities - in fact I can name istj and infj who have been abuse drugs immensely- however it’s not “common” within the types description or stereotype.
I’m not referring to myself here / I understand well enough that people are individual but the example that you use doesn’t correlate with the norm of the type - bc they test as an enfp is a superficial way to type - in which way do their Ne manifest would be a more accurate


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Who knows. I knew them as ENFPs and many things they said, did, how they acted, what they dreamed about, it all "clicked" in my head as ENFP(and not just mine). I never claimed they were healthy ENFPs though(I know atleast one ENFP who I see as healthy).
Most of the time I acted just as a passive observer who tried to help them in certain ways, but sometimes I had to step in. What happened to them later I don´t know. I got only snipets of information from people around them.

I don´t claim to be an expert on MBTI(only used it as a tool to read people better), but I always focused on the types that interested me: ENFPs, INFPs, INFJs, INTJs(mostly the N types). That is maybe why I got involved with so many ENFPs in my earlier life. The experience I had with them might not be the best, but I don´t stereotype them.
 

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Ok maybe I can help with the logic, the reason why it's hard for us to entertain this behavior set is that we know for certain that a lot of us do not demonstrate it.

This is what you first posted.



You made it sound like you were CERTAIN that ENFP's all have this EQUALLY self-destructive nature. You grouped us as a unit that you were clearly certain about it. Now we're disproving that Ni/Ti conviction you narrowly placed us in. You didn't say ENFPs in your life. You said we were equally self-destructive. That's why I had you clarify your meaning. I always need to know the intent the user is using a term that I might think differently about.
Let me make this clear.

Yes, from my experience in certain scenarios they are self-destructive(in one way or another). It doesn´t mean you all do the same thing, act the same, to this or that... It simply means, that when put in some really unhealthy enviroment or life situation, you can do things and make decisions that will harm you – after all, everybody has a breaking point when they stop thinking rationally. And these decisions or things mostly have something to do with people you are willing to trust.
And I pointed this out several times. Mostly it is not ENFPs themselves that iniciate this, but people they trust(friends, lovers, family members etc.).
One ENFP guy I knew got severly beaten because he hanged out with a drug dealer, an ENFP girl I knew got herself into hard drugs because of her boyfriend, this one ENFP joined a friend who was a "cool guy" on a trip – got druged by him and most probably raped.
All that these people had in common was that they were pretty unhealthy ENFPs who ignored all the warning signals when they associated themselves with people that many(INFJs surely) would avoid. And then there is trust... That is the core of their self-destruction.

Because I remember those people as those typical ENFPs: jolly, happy, open-minded, artistic in one way or another, great listeners, great people in general – somebody INFJs enjoy to be around with.

For me, ENFPs are certainly self-destructive. The unhealthy ones. I have seen enough to claim that. And by the word EQUALLY I meant that nobody is free from this reality – everybody has a breaking point, everybody can be unhealthy. Just because you never did something self-destructive doesn´t mean you are not capable of it. ENFPs do things and make decisions that harm them, INFP suffer in the darkness and lash at anybody that tries to help them, INFJs become mysantropes painting the world black. I know, all stereotypes, but there is a bit of truth ii it.
 

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I would say you have a very inaccurate viewpoint of us. My INFJ brother in law can do a lot more reckless things than I can. And do what with strangers? Why is that a 100%. Again I don't think you have an accurate or even close to an accurate description of us. I don't do much with strangers because I'm pretty shy and introverted, I mostly circulate around people I know and enjoy. I'm very quick about putting strangers to ignore if they show an ounce of rudeness.
Hmm, maybe I do, since most of the ENFPs I have encountered in my life were pretty unhealthy. But maybe the fact that I am not a native english speaker plays a part and I am unable to perfectly translate my train of thought.

Anyway, for an INFJ(or atleast for me), 50% of what ENFPs do is reckless because they tend to do the "adventurous" stuff in groups. A good example of this is one of my friends who invited me on a hike with two male buddies of hers. I know the guys well, but anyway my immidiate answer was "hell no!". First of all because it was in a rush and she needed the answer right away, and the second problem was that I would be able to enjoy the trip with her, but certainly not with those guys. For me it was a waste of time. A 100% recklessness would be, if she invited me on a trip with someone I don´t know entirely. That would be a TOTAL 100% NO! ABSOLUTE DOORSLAM! :D

And since you mention it, yeah, I can do pretty reckeless things. Sleeping drunk in a dark forest in the middle of the night, singing Christmas carolls in mid-July in a motorest filled with Polish tourists, trying to buy a stuffed peacock from a wealthy bar owner, getting arrested. It all was reckless but mostly unharmful and fun. Not sure about your brother in law though.
 

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No doubt about it. For an INFJ, half of the things ENFPs do are "reckless". And when they do it with strangers, it is 100%. :D

I would say that some ENFPs in my life were depraved of something and this caused them to keep trying to fill that hole. One lost her mother as a child, the other got into drugs thanks to a "great friend", some just followed a strange path in their life I never really understood. Different people different stories... The only thing I, as an INFJ, saw common in them was their blindness in face of misery. And this misery was mostly caused by other people they trusted.
I’m sorry that the people you knew let themselves give up and succumb to poor influences. I do think ENFPs need experiences INFJs would not likely try. I’ve never tried drugs, but usually “I want to learn everything and meet everyone” should just be a constant sign in neon over my head. We are very open-minded, but usually ENFPs are really good at detecting and getting out of traps. As you said, the ENFPs you’ve known let other people get them into horrible traps. I’m very sorry that you’ve had that experience and it would be because the ENFP gave up and let it happen, in my opinion, and they would have done that because, yes, there was a hole to fill and they weren’t finding what they needed emotionally to fill it. We HATE the idea of anyone having control over us in the least, and have a hard time thinking that any one of us could possibly be “made” to do anything against our will, so... yeah... that’s not common and that’s very very sad.

Specifically about people...
Mostly I can talk to anyone in this world— homeless, drunks, whatever—-and walk away unscathed and I do it to cheer them and me up. And that is important for me to be able to do. I would hate to feel frightened of harmless people no matter how unsavory some might think that person. It gives me a chuckle and happiness to talk to everyone, understand every corner of life BUT you do have to be good at detecting when there is truly someone dangerous. I’ve met a few people who are dangerous and homeless but I’ve met more who dress sharp and had good jobs who were much much more dangerous. Actually.... okay and this is funny... but my coworker called me “Black Widow” from Marvel just two days ago. He said “I think I’m good at getting things out of people, but YOU can get anything out of anyone. Black Widow Level bad-ass interrogation is what you do.”
Yay! so I’m ScarJo and it got noticed! But I hope I never land in a trap and it’s also important to tell myself that I can sometimes be fooled, but (knock on wood) I NEED this talent to be my happy learning mostly-trusting-yet-skeptical self, in order for me to have freedom while interacting with other people and that’s important for me for my happiness and development. . And the thing is that most people are good people no matter what they look like and I’m not going to judge people by their looks, because I know it’s not accurate. As I said, the really evil people I’ve met in this world dress sharp and have really good jobs (and I’m talking predatory pedophiles who are county judges and people who love to torture animals who are cops, etc.) and yeah... In the past I have been able to figure some of that out fairly quickly. Punk hair and tattoos are never going to tell you anything like that on their own. How people choose to present themselves is often very different than who they actually are.

I do think ideally for safety the skill level of being able to judge others correctly ought to match the trust/distrust and often that’s more balanced towards trust in ENFPs and (from what I see) often balanced towards distrust for most IXxJs. But I would be very unhappy if I as an ENFP approached the world like an INFJ does and vice-versa probably... and isn’t that the truth.
 

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@Stachan lol. For the record I’ve never been drunk (I don’t drink), never been amoral (although my daydreams haven't always been perfectly angelic), never bought a peacock, unfortunately. Not sure, but did the bar-tender have nice quality peacocks? I hope we are talking about birds. Lol I DO watch out with motorists (I’m not stupid) and my husband used to live in Poland so I understand those two things combined (some heavy drinking there)... but I do like to sing just about anywhere and any time.

Go hiking with a friend and people she knows? Of course! Why wouldn’t I? I’ve already made sure my friend is a good person so she wouldn’t be putting me in harms way. And it is HARD to get my INFJ friends to do new things with new people and new learning experiences are out unless they choose them usually and to tell you the truth it can damage the friendship. Open up a bit.

But I remember something about you guys’ Fe and that’s that Fe gets influenced and tarnished and polluted. Our Fi doesn’t. It had to already be sick to get damaged... you get me? So I’ve learned to have a bit of compassion for how protective you guys are of what you let in and don’t let in. It’s not like that for us.
 

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But you made a really great point. INFJs would really have big problems hanging out with people ENFPs tend to. To be honest, it made my skin crawl when I saw what people they(my ENFP friends from way back) were willing to associate with.
I don’t judge people- so in that sense I guess you’re correct . I’m friends with many from different walks of life - whether they abuse drugs - were addict- murdered someone at war- came from a broken home - are highly educated- from the peace corps - etc etc
Every friend I’ve made stayed in my life and have put trust in me and vice versa . Everyone have weaknesses and strength to categorize people into group that make your skin crawl sounds pretty bias to me . I can read people intentions pretty well and no one have ever uses me .

I strongly believe that one control the way they live and choose to live more so than being influence by someone else . More so if the person have Fi


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I’m sorry that the people you knew let themselves give up and succumb to poor influences. I do think ENFPs need experiences INFJs would not likely try. I’ve never tried drugs, but usually “I want to learn everything and meet everyone” should just be a constant sign in neon over my head. We are very open-minded, but usually ENFPs are really good at detecting and getting out of traps. As you said, the ENFPs you’ve known let other people get them into horrible traps. I’m very sorry that you’ve had that experience and it would be because the ENFP gave up and let it happen, in my opinion, and they would have done that because, yes, there was a hole to fill and they weren’t finding what they needed emotionally to fill it. We HATE the idea of anyone having control over us in the least, and have a hard time thinking that any one of us could possibly be “made” to do anything against our will, so... yeah... that’s not common and that’s very very sad.

Specifically about people...
Mostly I can talk to anyone in this world— homeless, drunks, whatever—-and walk away unscathed and I do it to cheer them and me up. And that is important for me to be able to do. I would hate to feel frightened of harmless people no matter how unsavory some might think that person. It gives me a chuckle and happiness to talk to everyone, understand every corner of life BUT you do have to be good at detecting when there is truly someone dangerous. I’ve met a few people who are dangerous and homeless but I’ve met more who dress sharp and had good jobs who were much much more dangerous. Actually.... okay and this is funny... but my coworker called me “Black Widow” from Marvel just two days ago. He said “I think I’m good at getting things out of people, but YOU can get anything out of anyone. Black Widow Level bad-ass interrogation is what you do.”
Yay! so I’m ScarJo and it got noticed! But I hope I never land in a trap and it’s also important to tell myself that I can sometimes be fooled, but (knock on wood) I NEED this talent to be my happy learning mostly-trusting-yet-skeptical self, in order for me to have freedom while interacting with other people and that’s important for me for my happiness and development. . And the thing is that most people are good people no matter what they look like and I’m not going to judge people by their looks, because I know it’s not accurate. As I said, the really evil people I’ve met in this world dress sharp and have really good jobs (and I’m talking predatory pedophiles who are county judges and people who love to torture animals who are cops, etc.) and yeah... In the past I have been able to figure some of that out fairly quickly. Punk hair and tattoos are never going to tell you anything like that on their own. How people choose to present themselves is often very different than who they actually are.

I do think ideally for safety the skill level of being able to judge others correctly ought to match the trust/distrust and often that’s more balanced towards trust in ENFPs and (from what I see) often balanced towards distrust for most IXxJs. But I would be very unhappy if I as an ENFP approached the world like an INFJ does and vice-versa probably... and isn’t that the truth.
You have truly perfectly described something that was I, thanks to my insufficient english, unable to. And that made some people really unhappy with me.

The way you describe ENFPs matches the "highs" and "lows" of those people I used to know. Being so non-judgmental, open-minded, cute and jolly, willing to give atleast a bit of human warmness... Yeah, that was something I admired them for. Unfortunately for them, they were blind towards those who were willing to use them. And as you correctly have stated, those people presented themselves in a favourable way so they could earn others´ trust. They made my skin crawl.

Sorry, I have 0 knowledge about Marvel movies so I really don´t know who Black Widow is. :D (checks google) - Oh, Scarlett Johansson. :D

Since you have mentioned homeless people, it really hurts me to see them. Because since my childhood I grew up in the countryside in a place with very few people. I never saw a homeless person until I went to university. It broke my heart immidiatelly. That´s why I also don´t like big cities and avoid them.

Yeah, I must admit that being an INFJ is not a very happy life. The strong distrust towards people had left me almost without any friends. But the ones I have I really cherish...
 

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I don’t judge people- so in that sense I guess you’re correct . I’m friends with many from different walks of life - whether they abuse drugs - were addict- murdered someone at war- came from a broken home - are highly educated- from the peace corps - etc etc
Every friend I’ve made stayed in my life and have put trust in me and vice versa . Everyone have weaknesses and strength to categorize people into group that make your skin crawl sounds pretty bias to me . I can read people intentions pretty well and no one have ever uses me .

I strongly believe that one control the way they live and choose to live more so than being influence by someone else . More so if the person have Fi


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Well, I am not talking about people in THAT manner. The people that made my skin crawl were really shady types. People you would avoid at any cost. The kinds that... how should I put it? In my home country we have a saying: "Na jazyku med. V srdci jed." - translated: "Honey on the toungue. Poison in the heart." ... It were really not good people. And how they dragged those poor friends of mine into the gutter was a proof I(and many others) didn´t even need.
 

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@Stachan lol. For the record I’ve never been drunk (I don’t drink), never been amoral (although my daydreams haven't always been perfectly angelic), never bought a peacock, unfortunately. Not sure, but did the bar-tender have nice quality peacocks? I hope we are talking about birds. Lol I DO watch out with motorists (I’m not stupid) and my husband used to live in Poland so I understand those two things combined (some heavy drinking there)... but I do like to sing just about anywhere and any time.

Go hiking with a friend and people she knows? Of course! Why wouldn’t I? I’ve already made sure my friend is a good person so she wouldn’t be putting me in harms way. And it is HARD to get my INFJ friends to do new things with new people and new learning experiences are out unless they choose them usually and to tell you the truth it can damage the friendship. Open up a bit.

But I remember something about you guys’ Fe and that’s that Fe gets influenced and tarnished and polluted. Our Fi doesn’t. It had to already be sick to get damaged... you get me? So I’ve learned to have a bit of compassion for how protective you guys are of what you let in and don’t let in. It’s not like that for us.

Nah, it was a stuffed bird, don´t you worry. :D And it was not for sale, so the whole drunken bargain was for naught. Unfortunately. Or maybe not so... Not sure how would I transport it in a full bus of early commuters trying to get to their jos. And what I am even less sure of is how would I explain my deeds at home. Anyway, such adventures are always a good story when you are sitting with your friends talking about the good times. It never gets old.

The magic of drinking always comes with good company. That is the first thing people need to learn if they want to drink. The others are: Never drink if you are sad, always try to eat something along drinking, never mix vodka with beer. ... The rest is - enojy. Especially times with good friends.

Yeah, I too must admit that I am guilty of this. But that is just the way I am. If you want to do something with an INFJ, you must inform him beforehand, make sure there is nobody included the INFJ doesn´t know or trust, and generally prepare for the special day. Let the trip itself do the magic.

Yeah, I understand. That is why there are so many INFJ villains in movies. The dark idealists with sharp minds but corrupted souls.
 

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I thought this thread was meant to be fun :(

Fun fact: it's my INFJ friend who has gotten me to do more drugs any anyone else.

Any type can be self-destructive, any type can have addictive personalities or over-indulgent. Perhaps you can use type to verify why people are driven to that but not IF they are driven to that.
 

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I thought this thread was meant to be fun :(

Fun fact: it's my INFJ friend who has gotten me to do more drugs any anyone else.

Any type can be self-destructive, any type can have addictive personalities or over-indulgent. Perhaps you can use type to verify why people are driven to that but not IF they are driven to that.
Yep, it was detrained.
 

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