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From what I observe, ENFP-ENFP relations are very comfortable. ENFP-INFP relations usually are also very comfortable. I also personally find the most friction in Fe-Ti/Fi-Te axis differences, so I don't think I can agree with most of your points.

Nice hair btw.
 

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Although I can get along with everybody who isn't just an "asshole", I personally (ENFP) prefer quite clearly company of other NFs and NTs - those make up most if not almost all of my closest "circle". I connect the least easily probably with SJs although there are a couple of exceptions too - but for most of them our thinking patterns are too different to keep up something meaningful for prolonged time. SPs are also fun and great but sometimes I have to adjust my way of communication with them a bit, to not sound like half of my speech is pure sci-fi :D
 

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@SensitiveAcceptance

Best relationships are with other Ns, especially NPs, but I've had friends of other types too. Tho I think there's more to relationships that type, N-N can certainly help things pass beyond acquaintance to closer friendships and it's more likely we'll have other things in common.

I'm curious tho why don't you talk about NTPs? I love NTPs
 

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I’m immediately put off by the mention of CS Josephs who I think is someone who has some of the poorest understanding of cognitive functions of anyone talking about MBTI on YouTube. The function stacks were there long before CSJosephs. I suggest removing him as one of your information sources. I prefer PersonalityPage as an internet site that goes a bit deeper into the stack.

When people started to use YouTube as their main source of into this whole generation missed out on all the real research that had actually been done by official MBTI and by their trained psychologists. Youtube is such easy information to get that I also get lots of information from YouTube even though most of the older and wiser aren’t on youtube. Dario Nardi from just a tad older than my generation (Im 44) talks about sources not being utilized with a YouTuber Meghan Lavato. Meghan is really annoying to me, but it’s almost because of her being annoying that it is easy to see different functions play out. You can see these two both using their Ni. Dario talks early in the video about the resources that are getting lost to the youtube generation. Also later on he talks about his work on growth for types here which is just fantastic!


These are kind of older, but still good. NF Geeks with Dr Mike has some great stuff on relationships.


 
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From what I observe, ENFP-ENFP relations are very comfortable. ENFP-INFP relations usually are also very comfortable. I also personally find the most friction in Fe-Ti/Fi-Te axis differences, so I don't think I can agree with most of your points.

Nice hair btw.
I agree with the exception of INFJs.

My least to get along with have to be ESTPs closely followed by ENTPs. ESTPs are so cutthroat and surface oriented which has its uses no doubt, but it just goes so against my nature.

In theory ISTPs and INTPs would be a further bother because of the Ti link but I tend to get along with them pretty well, I think because they don't project themselves as much. Every ESTP/ENTP male in particular I've met wants to pervade the whole social culture of whatever group they're in and I haven't had an experience so far where it doesn't get annoying. They don't take other individuals into account, it's just a me-oriented type of thinking. I have met an ENTP female and she was much milder.

ENFJs and ESFJs I will have miscommunications with but because their heart is in the right place I find it hard to aggrieve them much.

Other than that there's very little I tend to find that would obstruct my appreciation of different personality types even if we may not become best friends.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
From what I observe, ENFP-ENFP relations are very comfortable. ENFP-INFP relations usually are also very comfortable. I also personally find the most friction in Fe-Ti/Fi-Te axis differences, so I don't think I can agree with most of your points.

Nice hair btw.
Fair enough, keep in mind that there is a difference between camaraderie and compatibility. Similar types would have a lot of camaraderie due to their similar life experiences but there wouldn't be that synergy between them that makes the friendship great for growth and also meeting each other's needs.

And thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Although I can get along with everybody who isn't just an "asshole", I personally (ENFP) prefer quite clearly company of other NFs and NTs - those make up most if not almost all of my closest "circle". I connect the least easily probably with SJs although there are a couple of exceptions too - but for most of them our thinking patterns are too different to keep up something meaningful for prolonged time. SPs are also fun and great but sometimes I have to adjust my way of communication with them a bit, to not sound like half of my speech is pure sci-fi :D
Haha I agree with what you said about what interaction is like with SJs and SPs. I am very used to interacting with both though since there are so many of them. NTs make great tag team partners for intellectual conversations, but are sometimes too insensitive for my liking
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@SensitiveAcceptance

Best relationships are with other Ns, especially NPs, but I've had friends of other types too. Tho I think there's more to relationships that type, N-N can certainly help things pass beyond acquaintance to closer friendships and it's more likely we'll have other things in common.

I'm curious tho why don't you talk about NTPs? I love NTPs
Other Ns are great, there just isn't necessarily always that mutual meeting of each other's needs to make the friendship strong. Great conversation partners though. I don't mind NTPs, there are still challenges there though. Mainly because neither knows what they want and can't make the other feel comfortable.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I’m immediately put off by the mention of CS Josephs who I think is someone who has some of the poorest understanding of cognitive functions of anyone talking about MBTI on YouTube. The function stacks were there long before CSJosephs. I suggest removing him as one of your information sources. I prefer PersonalityPage as an internet site that goes a bit deeper into the stack.

When people started to use YouTube as their main source of into this whole generation missed out on all the real research that had actually been done by official MBTI and by their trained psychologists. Youtube is such easy information to get that I also get lots of information from YouTube even though most of the older and wiser aren’t on youtube. Dario Nardi from just a tad older than my generation (Im 44) talks about sources not being utilized with a YouTuber Meghan Lavato. Meghan is really annoying to me, but it’s almost because of her being annoying that it is easy to see different functions play out. You can see these two both using their Ni. Dario talks early in the video about the resources that are getting lost to the youtube generation. Also later on he talks about his work on growth for types here which is just fantastic!


These are kind of older, but still good. NF Geeks with Dr Mike has some great stuff on relationships.


I don't disagree with you when you say that there is lots of MBTI crap on YouTube and that there are some great trained psychologists and authorities in this area to learn from. Chase's (CS Joseph) work comes from a lot of these great researchers though, namely Dr. John Beebe, Dr. Linda Berens, David Keirsey, even Dr. Nardi (who has collaborated with Berens on her books). He also covers Jungian Typology to a pretty great depth (cognitive functions, their attitudes, cognitive synchronicity, compatibility, four sides of the mind, cognitive transitioning, etc.), more so than most typology YouTubers. What do you not like about Chase out of curiosity? Thanks for the suggestions though. I'll check them out
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with the exception of INFJs.

My least to get along with have to be ESTPs closely followed by ENTPs. ESTPs are so cutthroat and surface oriented which has its uses no doubt, but it just goes so against my nature.

In theory ISTPs and INTPs would be a further bother because of the Ti link but I tend to get along with them pretty well, I think because they don't project themselves as much. Every ESTP/ENTP male in particular I've met wants to pervade the whole social culture of whatever group they're in and I haven't had an experience so far where it doesn't get annoying. They don't take other individuals into account, it's just a me-oriented type of thinking. I have met an ENTP female and she was much milder.

ENFJs and ESFJs I will have miscommunications with but because their heart is in the right place I find it hard to aggrieve them much.

Other than that there's very little I tend to find that would obstruct my appreciation of different personality types even if we may not become best friends.
Yes, ESTPs are cutthroat but I think there is a lot an ENFP can learn from them and vice versa. They can really grow together quite nicely. You may be describing immature ESTPs and ENTPs who aren't interested in learning from complementary types.
 

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I don't disagree with you when you say that there is lots of MBTI crap on YouTube and that there are some great trained psychologists and authorities in this area to learn from. Chase's (CS Joseph) work comes from a lot of these great researchers though, namely Dr. John Beebe, Dr. Linda Berens, David Keirsey, even Dr. Nardi (who has collaborated with Berens on her books). He also covers Jungian Typology to a pretty great depth (cognitive functions, their attitudes, cognitive synchronicity, compatibility, four sides of the mind, cognitive transitioning, etc.), more so than most typology YouTubers. What do you not like about Chase out of curiosity? Thanks for the suggestions though. I'll check them out
C S Joseph’s can read and he can read the right people but he doesn’t understand the functions. He can make very small innovations in a chart— I’m not sure that his chart is wrong, but that’s because it isn’t innovative either. Since he doesn’t understand the functions, his conclusions are all wrong. When it comes to Ne and Fi he really has some huge blind spots including typing himself as an Ne dom. I think people listen to him, especially sensors because he is a sensor and so when he talks sensors understand what he says at face value... but it is his terrible conclusions and misunderstandings that they are understanding directly from him. It all means a lot of very bad information is getting spread, especially about those whose functions he does not understand. Whenever I hear him explaining something he was told by an ENFP I can tell he did not understand the subtext. He does not understand Ne or Fi anyway. I bet I could listen to more of his and tell you everything I think is wrong... but it’s so obvious to me that he doesn’t understand functions in general and that makes me mad enough that he is spreading incorrect information about us. ENFPs can see the potential of incorrect information— so my reaction to his incorrect information is quite strong.
 

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Other Ns are great, there just isn't necessarily always that mutual meeting of each other's needs to make the friendship strong. Great conversation partners though. I don't mind NTPs, there are still challenges there though. Mainly because neither knows what they want and can't make the other feel comfortable.
I don't think that's true in my experience, it's quite easy to understand each other and our differences and learn to accommodate each others' needs. It could be an issue for a F dom who takes things a lot more personally tho, so they could clash with NTPs detachment and objectivity more often, but it hasn't been an issue for me. It's also potentially a much more comfortable relationship than with ESTPs for obvious reasons I think.

btw I think CSJ doesn't understand Jung, he uses Berens' work that's quite removed from the original theory, which he wouldn't do if he understood. But more than that he has very poor understanding of NE types and it's kinda funny to me how he thinks ENFPs are so different from ENTPs and says we care about status and power and other such nonsense. I came across some videos of former employees of his who describe him being incredibly unhealthy and likely narcissistic. They even say he'd have sex or use the toilet during calls with clients... could totally believe him doing something like that as it's obvious he's unstable and neurotic in his videos when he speaks from a personal experience and he gets angry. I think his 4 sides of the mind thing is something he came up to better fit his unstable personality in the ENTP typing. But anyways these are just the cherry on the cake, because his system of 4 sides of the mind or alternating function-attitudes has no rationale other than magical thinking behind it. It's not supported by good premises and consistent application of them, same as all the Grant stack -based systems.
 

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Meghan is really annoying to me, but it’s almost because of her being annoying that it is easy to see different functions play out. You can see these two both using their Ni.
what's annoyin about her? I've watched her a little and don't really have an opinion except my impression that she doesn't seem much like a Ni type but w/e


Nardi talks about the Transcendent function in this vid but this only makes sense in the Jungian model where the dom and aux attitudes don't alternate, which is why the 5th function is needed to bridge the conscious with the unconscious since it's where the E-I divide lies. I wonder how he thinks it works otherwise.
 

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@Red Panda. You don’t see anything annoying about Meghan Lavota?

It’s such strong and immediate annoyance for me. She constantly lectures about the virtues of Fe dom with Ni. I can’t stand how little she pays attention to the wisdom and experience of others...and yet she does learn and wants to learn but it takes them banging her on the head (she pretty much invites it though) and even then she is likely to just talk about how good it is that she processes things entirely differently and how everyone should try to be like an Fe dom with Ni.

I’ve learned a lot from her for a reason... that she is well able to compare and then explain clearly her own way of thinking and making decisions. Not everyone can do that. In fact it’s fairly rare, in my opinion. I learn a lot about Fe from her and especially Fe with Ni from her, as poor as she is at valuing other people’s experience and wisdom, she does value the comparison because she values being able to see herself more clearly and communicate what is going on with her. So I can thank her for that.

Over time I’ve found certain people to learn about certain functions from, who are able to compare and articulate their own experience. I value learning from these people. Some of them here on PerC. Most of them are just as interested in learning about the experience and wisdom that comes from other functions as I hope I am.
I’m going to actually name them. This is a weird place to do so, but oh well.

@wums. Such an awesome person to learn from and to talk to. Wums makes me realize that understanding others does take leaps of faith. Asking and believing people are more different and alike than we realize.
@Northern Lights. So appreciated! I learn so much from Northern Lights about both TI and Se and also what it means to be a perceiver. Northern lights is so good at observing comparing and contrasting.

@Kelly Kapowski on both Ni and Fe and I think we’ve worked through some very interesting differences to make many epiphanies.

I feel respected throughout my discussions with these folks and I have a lot of respect for these people who are good at looking both outward and inwant and studying and observing and articulating what we see and experience. And it’s not easy or common and i see it as a valuable skill. And interesting! So interesting!
 

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@Red Panda. You don’t see anything annoying about Meghan Lavota? It’s such strong and immediate annoyance for me. I can’t stand how difficult it is for her to learn from others... how little she pays attention to their wisdom and experience...and yet she does learn and wants to learn but it takes them banging her on the head (she pretty much invites it though) and even then she is likely to just talk about how good it is that she processes things entirely differently and how everyone should try to be like an Fe dom with Ni.

I’ve learned a lot from her for a reason... that she is well able to compare and then explain Her own way of doing things. So I learn a lot about Fe from her and especially Fe with Ni from her, as poor as she is at valuing other people’s experience and wisdom. She does value the comparison because she values being able to see herself more clearly And communicate what is going on with her. So I can thank her for that.
Nah she doesn't seem annoying to me like that, just kinda boring maybe. But I dunno about the rest you say, did you see that in her vids of "what's she learned from other types" and/or her chats with other people? I've seen her vids quite sporadically.
 

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Nah she doesn't seem annoying to me like that, just kinda boring maybe. But I dunno about the rest you say, did you see that in her vids of "what's she learned from other types" and/or her chats with other people? I've seen her vids quite sporadically.
In general ENFJs can drive me up the wall. Many of the ones who I know are condescending and pretty forceful about how they think other people should feel think or act— in an Fe way that means they think their values are universal or should be universal. And the annoyance that comes for ENFJs has to do with my strength about taking in information. So often ENFJs have some of the same goals (make the world a better place) but go about their goals in a way that I find obnoxious and preachy and non-observant.

In this video, I have the hardest time watching how she is reacting to Dario... how little interest in HIM she shows even while showing she is interested In his information by taking notes, asking some questions, but looking down constantly and interjecting too much about Fe and Ni. She is young though, and I am glad that she did the video since what he has to share is fantastic. She comes across almost as if she can’t connect with him. but he is so awesome through it. And he does connect with her and validate her Ni, but in my opinion he is doing all the connecting work.

I’ve been thinking since my last post about maybe why she does this. Why does she fail as an Fe dom to connect? Which tends to be fairly common in ExxJs. Why she is bashing everyone’s head in about the good of Fe and of course wondering if I do anything of the same sort bashing people’s heads in about everything I just showed that I value (by contrast): the importance of asking questions, observing and connecting by taking other people’s information in while you’ve got them in front of you, valuing and respecting their experience and wisdom. But in Meghan’’s defense taking in information from the outside world is her third function, not first and not second.

But I was thinking... is this over-focus on Fe because she feels Fe is often misunderstood? I think it could be. And would I bash people’s heads in and tell people to act like ENFPs if I thought Ne was misunderstood? Well Ne is often misunderstood by anyone who doesn’t have it and Fi is very misunderstood by anyone who doesn’t have it and no... I don’t expect for others without those functions to act like ENFPs and Im not sure that I hope to make it understood for those who aren’t interested. But to anyone interested, pull up a chair, because for those same reasons I do work on trying to explain it and contrast with others so that I can figure out what pieces are being missed, due to their functions and due to mine seeming so universal to me.

Here are some videos Meghan has done that by way of information (if you can stand the annoyance) she really does a good job explaining her own Fe-Ni wag of thinking and deciding contrasted with Ne and Fi:


In this one she often mis-identifies Fe as Ni when she talks about Universiality. She often demises those two things... but the experience she shares here to contrast is really fascinating and key and yes... SO annoying to Ne dom... She obviously doesn’t see how valuable being able to jump into a person’s story is to understand them. Maybe her friend convinced her afterwards? I don’t know but for sure Meghan didn’t realize she was missing a lot of information by doing it her way and while preaching to an ENFP about what information an ENFP might miss. I think it must be very hard for the Se-Ni axis to realize what is learned from being able to look at the past in story form and experience someone else’s past to connect it with their present and their future possibilities.
 
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