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I don't know about you, but I'm talking all the time, and it's mostly to myself. In first grade I started the habit. My grandmother used to say "You're so loud I can't hear myself think" and the phrase kind of stuck with me in school, so from the outsider's perspective, I started mumbling to myself. I've already said the first sentence of this out loud. I guess it happens because I wish I had people around to actually talk to, and not just type.

I'm constantly interacting with something outside of me. Unless I'm sleeping, then that's the only time I'm introverted. That's the time when my brain gets to show me all the fun things it's worried about, and half of them I don't even care for in my waking hours. I wish my brain would just ponder normally. It's been 17 years since I've been in school, so I can stop dreaming about that. I don't work at Giant food stores anymore, so I can stop dreaming about that. I want more Star Wars and Smash Bros dreams.
 

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enfps seem to be all over the map when it comes to the are you 'socially extroverted' question lol.
I think I'm obviously more 'excitable' in conversation than inxps. It's easy for me to see how hungry my dom ne is for novelty and stimulation, but I can honestly satisfy these cravings on my own. I find being around people draining and unsatisfying most of the time. Social energy doesn't do much for me. I've never felt like I need other people and am considered an introvert by people unfamiliar with the mbti definition. I've called myself one too.
 

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@Falling Foxes I'm not extroverted socially, but so are most N types. Theres no need to engage with every person you come across in order to understand them when youre using intuition.

Jung's definitions of E/I are different from the mbti terms of it, btw. I think its the biggest flaw in mbti theory.
https://frithluton.com/articles/introversion/
https://frithluton.com/articles/extraversion/

With this^ kind of frame of reference it's much easier to distinguish between an E and an I, which, for some odd reason are represented in mbti as P and J. The Jungian P doms are Ni,Si,Ne,Se doms and J doms are Ti,Fi,Te,Fe doms. Which means that:

EXXPs in mbti stay EXXPs (See first, then decide(P). Adjusting self to circumstances(E))
IXXPs in MBTI are EXXJs in Jungian type (Decide first, then see(J). Adjusting self to circumstances)
IXXJs are IXXPs (See first, then decide. Adjusting circumstances to self(I))
EXXJs are IXXJs (Decide first, then see. Adjusting circumstances to self)
 

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@Falling Foxes I'm not extroverted socially, but so are most N types. Theres no need to engage with every person you come across in order to understand them when youre using intuition.

Jung's definitions of E/I are different from the mbti terms of it, btw. I think its the biggest flaw in mbti theory.
https://frithluton.com/articles/introversion/
https://frithluton.com/articles/extraversion/

With this^ kind of frame of reference it's much easier to distinguish between an E and an I, which, for some odd reason are represented in mbti as P and J. The Jungian P doms are Ni,Si,Ne,Se doms and J doms are Ti,Fi,Te,Fe doms. Which means that:

EXXPs in mbti stay EXXPs (See first, then decide(P). Adjusting self to circumstances(E))
IXXPs in MBTI are EXXJs in Jungian type (Decide first, then see(J). Adjusting self to circumstances)
IXXJs are IXXPs (See first, then decide. Adjusting circumstances to self(I))
EXXJs are IXXJs (Decide first, then see. Adjusting circumstances to self)
Yup, agreed.
If we noticed Jung's descriptions, he has some conflations of behaviors between the N and S, specifically Introversion seems a bit intermixed with N, and Extraversion with S. I've pointed it out in other threads, that I think this was due to his personal bias/viewpoint as a INT type.

To give an example, the NE type is unlikely to fit this: "and his conscience is in large measure dependent on public opinion. [Ibid.]".
Also some of those in regards to social life etc are more relevant to F types too. Generally unless he talks about NE specifically, his descriptions seem to relate more to his opposite type ESF which I'm unsure he intended.


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The outgoing aspects of E/I was likely a mistake on Jung's part which Myers elevated to a new level, while modern research on this shows very insignificant differences for most people. An Introvert who, by nature, prefers to have a foothold and control on the environment is often social and builds a circle of people who can protect and validate them.
The dynamic between personal extraversion and introversion is the same as between building a secure, unchanging environment and expanding to new horizons, just the large scale result of it.
 

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@Fru2 @Red Panda

Yeah, I know that Myers messed with Jung's description of Extraversion and we don't really use social extraversion to type ourselves on this forum but that's not what the point was behind this thread. I made it to see if we are blind to our social extraversion, regardless of the fact that Myer's slapped "Extraversion" into the name.

Since it's a topic that is discussed regardless of definition and often ENFPs here talk about being socially introverted. I did the same until recently. Hence I was seeing if this was a familiar thought process with other ENFPs.

(But I apparently abandoned this thread without explanation... I guess I didn't have the energy to respond to people)
 
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People often respond to me quite well in social situations, I very definitely have a party mode where I mingle, engage, respond. If seen in that mode, I don't seem the least bit socially extroverted. But after an event like that I need to hide for a good week. But ideas and futures, I never get tired of thinking about and engaging with the what if. And I might even go out of my way to deal with people if they come with the 'what if'.

I think the old "ENFPs are the most introverted extrovert" line applies to me.
 

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I think it's cool that people told you this in Prague and also... we DO do more to bring people together than we think we do, don't we?
I think unless I'm bringing people together everyday that I'm so darn introverted! lol
So my interview was interesting because @Respect said I have such a strong personality, and I don't experience myself that way. And @Lord Pixel (I think) was like "You're definitely an extrovert". I experience my inner world of Fi even when I'm in a room speaking to others and I experience my Ne imagination that is only in my mind as well.
Of course this is different for every ENFP. Some of us will be more socially extroverted. And I do think there is a big difference between socially extroverted and just using your extroverted function dominantly.

Well, maybe I'm writing this after thinking of how introverts look at us. Or... maybe how I THINK introverts look at us???

So I've been noticing who I deem to be extroverts and the amount of talking that goes on in a room... I have this daily meeting, right? Where nurses and doctors and professionals discuss patients. The quietest person in that room is an ENTJ but she is intense, noticing everything with piercing eyes, and is very decisive. A 5 word sentence from her directs how things will go or stops everyone in their tracks. She moves very quickly and drives the pace of work flow. She economizes everything, including her words. I get along with her great, though. We have similar goals and she actually tells me the strengths that she sees in me and is a great support for me. So there is a lot of big-picture thinking there and I don't think I've heard her complementing other . She has given me compliments on both innovation and caring and also has said some things about me being a warrior for our patients and that she often wishes the next day that she had said something to back me up when I made a few stands that nobody else understood.

Anyway.... it is sometimes really hard for me to get a good view of myself. I didn't know I come across as a strong personality. I wonder if the ENTJ sees herself like that--- but most people would call her fierce like as the dominant thing you think of her. Yet she says less than anyone in the room. When she does, though, it's like a knife cut through the BS.
I guess there is a lot more to being extroverted than just word count.
Yes in your interview you definitely looked like an extrovert, I agree with Respect also, I think you seem to have a strong personality because you can hear assertiveness in your voice. Like you have an extraverted voice, it's clear and does sound very uninhibited. I notice that with alot of obvious extraverts especially ones with Te, clear voice, sounds very inhibited most of the time and like the voice itself fills a larger space in the room than say an obvious introvert. I hear people call it a booming voice, you got a little boom in your voice, I don't think that's as natural for introverts. For more obvious extroverts it does not sound like they are holding back the full volume of their voice while for more obvious introverts it sounds like they are not engaging the full volume of their voice and alot of it is being held back. I guess simple terms would be shy voice vs outgoing voice. You have outgoing voice.

Also one of the quietest person at my church is an ENTJ, and when she speaks she addresses the entire room with a motivational point.
 

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@Fru2 @Red Panda

Yeah, I know that Myers messed with Jung's description of Extraversion and we don't really use social extraversion to type ourselves on this forum but that's not what the point was behind this thread. I made it to see if we are blind to our social extraversion, regardless of the fact that Myer's slapped "Extraversion" into the name.

Since it's a topic that is discussed regardless of definition and often ENFPs here talk about being socially introverted. I did the same until recently. Hence I was seeing if this was a familiar thought process with other ENFPs.

(But I apparently abandoned this thread without explanation... I guess I didn't have the energy to respond to people)

The fact that extroverts struggle to know whether they are E or I, more than introverts do, sort of proves their extroversion. They are primarily looking at things outside of themselves, asking them to see themselves accurately is not natural (because of the dominant function), it's more of an excersize for the extrovert to look at themselves and see with accuracy, while with an introvert most of the time it's undeniable, because they naturally look at themselves all the time 24/7 so asking them is like asking someone their last name. So I do think alot of extroverts are blind to their own extroversion. And because extroversion happens in the moment, extroverts need to be in the moment of their extroversion to notice it, while introverts are sitting in the middle of their introversion all the time, so it's pretty undeniable to recognize. I personally have met more extroverts claim their Introverts instead of the other way around.
 

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@Falling Foxes I'm not extroverted socially, but so are most N types. Theres no need to engage with every person you come across in order to understand them when youre using intuition.

Jung's definitions of E/I are different from the mbti terms of it, btw. I think its the biggest flaw in mbti theory.
https://frithluton.com/articles/introversion/
https://frithluton.com/articles/extraversion/

With this^ kind of frame of reference it's much easier to distinguish between an E and an I, which, for some odd reason are represented in mbti as P and J. The Jungian P doms are Ni,Si,Ne,Se doms and J doms are Ti,Fi,Te,Fe doms. Which means that:

EXXPs in mbti stay EXXPs (See first, then decide(P). Adjusting self to circumstances(E))
IXXPs in MBTI are EXXJs in Jungian type (Decide first, then see(J). Adjusting self to circumstances)
IXXJs are IXXPs (See first, then decide. Adjusting circumstances to self(I))
EXXJs are IXXJs (Decide first, then see. Adjusting circumstances to self)
I agree with the EP see first then decide and IP decide first then see. I think it's why people call INFPs judgemental, because we actually are. I know I decide first then see at least.

I think IJs are see first decide later too tho because of the Pdom.
 

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The fact that extroverts struggle to know whether they are E or I, more than introverts do, sort of proves their extroversion. They are primarily looking at things outside of themselves, asking them to see themselves accurately is not natural (because of the dominant function), it's more of an excersize for the extrovert to look at themselves and see with accuracy, while with an introvert most of the time it's undeniable, because they naturally look at themselves all the time 24/7 so asking them is like asking someone their last name. So I do think alot of extroverts are blind to their own extroversion. And because extroversion happens in the moment, extroverts need to be in the moment of their extroversion to notice it, while introverts are sitting in the middle of their introversion all the time, so it's pretty undeniable to recognize. I personally have met more extroverts claim their are Introverts instead of the other way around.
Very good post.

I've noticed something about myself in recent years and that's I don't want someone to talk to, I need someone to talk to ... An intimate one on one for me is literally an opportunity to interact with another object unless I have some sort of real interest in them as an individual --- which in my experience over the years is usually much more stand-off-ish than I myself realized. Immersion with an individual is essentially just another one of the things that I have on my plate to do .. not much different from watching a movie, playing a game etc. Interaction with people = Interaction with objects. As long as they have something interesting to offer I'm interested. Once that's gone, I move on.

That said, I have a huge problem being in big crowds, parties, family get togethers etc etc. They're not my cup of tea. Never have been. Never will be. I want an exclusive one on one. I really enjoy my life as a hermit where I interact with people exclusively online because that way I get to choose exactly who I talk to and am not ever feeling a sense of obligation towards others and their needs that I don't want to. Inherently, I've come to realize I'm *very selfish*, but at the same time, I will dedicate to someone's needs to the best of my ability if they really need some sort of support.

A lot of people confuse that with introversion. I don't in my particular case because for me I'm still oriented outwards towards the object. Just that I can only handle one or two at a time, not more. Even in fast paced chats where there's dozens of people chatting at a time, I slip away to do something more private.
 

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Very good post.

I've noticed something about myself in recent years and that's I don't want someone to talk to, I need someone to talk to ... An intimate one on one for me is literally an opportunity to interact with another object unless I have some sort of real interest in them as an individual --- which in my experience over the years is usually much more stand-off-ish than I myself realized. Immersion with an individual is essentially just another one of the things that I have on my plate to do .. not much different from watching a movie, playing a game etc. Interaction with people = Interaction with objects. As long as they have something interesting to offer I'm interested. Once that's gone, I move on.

That said, I have a huge problem being in big crowds, parties, family get togethers etc etc. They're not my cup of tea. Never have been. Never will be. I want an exclusive one on one. I really enjoy my life as a hermit where I interact with people exclusively online because that way I get to choose exactly who I talk to and am not ever feeling a sense of obligation towards others and their needs that I don't want to. Inherently, I've come to realize I'm *very selfish*, but at the same time, I will dedicate to someone's needs to the best of my ability if they really need some sort of support.

A lot of people confuse that with introversion. I don't in my particular case because for me I'm still oriented outwards towards the object. Just that I can only handle one or two at a time, not more. Even in fast paced chats where there's dozens of people chatting at a time, I slip away to do something more private.
I take it you are Sx first, because of your emphasis on 1 on 1. And I could def see how people think that's introversion. Funny thing I'm sort of different from you in that respect, 1 on 1 is slightly uncomfortable for me if I don't know the person. I am actually better with just lightly entertaining some group of folks, sitting in a corner making the people laugh every now and then, being a class clown, rather than getting into juicy interactions 1 on 1 with people I don't know, those are the situations I tend to leave if I don't care enough about the person, and I slip away to a more public chat. But I'm an introvert, I'm primarily not focused on objects but stimulating internal states, watching some show to stimulate me internally, or reflecting on some thought, or reflecting on a bunch of moments that happened throughout the day, or listening to music to stimulate me internally and emotionally, or reading some article to satisfy curiousity, or trying to draw out something I feel inside or imagine essentially trying to describe some internal experience outwardly, it's all geared towards some internal pay off.
 

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It's become a pretty popular saying, particularly around PerC that ENFPs are the most introverted extraverts; and we will explain that is because being intuitive doms that our extraversion can be purely satisfied without people but is that true?

I have been saying that I am pretty introverted and when I've miserably lived the last year feeling like a hermit it's difficult to say otherwise. I have a social life, sure, but it clearly doesn't satisfy me.

So how much is this "I'm not much of an extravert" all our own skewed perception of ourselves? Do we see ourselves that way when the external world doesn't?

I was living in Prague and left a year ago. Today I've finally returned to meet up with old friends. I have heard on 4 separate occasions from 4 different people that once I left their whole social life went with me, that I was the lynch pin of the group who would force others to come out and socialise (most appreciated it) but it made me realise I must be more extraverted than I thought since I didn't realise I was the one who had to bring introverts out of their rooms.

So how honest do you think your own perception of your extraversion is?
I think I’m the opposite- my perception of my extroversion tends to baffle people more so if they’re close with me

I highly doubt I’m blind to my introversion Introspect more than anyone I know.
I’m extroverted bc I enjoy exploring- traveling - adapt well to changes - don’t stress as easily nor have I ever had any anxiety, people amuses me quite much and I don’t fear them
However often time when I tell someone I’m an extrovert ( irl and even online if one was to have deep conversations with me or know me personally) it’s hard for the believe - many of my introverted friends are louder - talks more - party harder or craves human interaction more than I do- I made a post about traveling alone a few years back and to my surprise- more extroverts have done so than introverts - same with going to a movie theater alone .
Introverts do know they’re introvert ( regardless how social - loud - talkative ) they say it’s a mask they learn to adapt or its random or with close friends only - so that part rings true - I don’t pretend to be more social or mask my friendliness- my emotion are genuine

i don’t know I’m an introvert or extrovert within the social definition- but I honestly think many people are ambiverts
My confusion lies on myself getting drain from hanging out with anyone for over 2 hours - and how I enjoy being alone more than socializing( though I also enjoy socializing I’m not fearful of it ) , I’m also much calmer and less impulsive than most people I know - I reflect inward before acting out - always have but I have no fear of acting out or diving into new things , I work better under pressure
I like people and I’m not anxious or grouchy about meeting new people and I get excited when I see old friends or hang out with close relatives






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The social butterfly description I read about ENFP and extraverted in general is what make me wonder if I'm ENFP? I perceive myself as shy, reserved, introverted, but people in my volunteering place, or chess/music clubs, penpals describe me as more as socially extraverted even though I'm not having a busy social life.

You raised a very interesting topic here @Falling Foxes about self perception vs other perceptions of our self. Maybe it is more about the potential of extraversion ? Like maybe we perceive the gap between how we are extraverted at the moment, and how more extraverted we could be ?
Something like that ?
 
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