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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Having taken John's Personality Test John's Personality Test, I am back to exploring my personality type.

I only showed up to personality cafe recently, and just started posting, because I see a whole lot of people wanting to be INFJs that exhibit not a quality of the INFJ at all; or, more accurately they do not exhibit - MY - qualities. And because I have been so sure of my diagnosis, having the infirmity of being an INFJ, I have settled that if someone was not able to guide or to lead or to show proper levels of intelligence and also proper levels of protection for those that are "weaker" and/or seemingly "less intelligent" (but quite the opposite from those who call themselves "Protectors"), I felt the need also to point out the hypocrisy.

The best defense is a good offense. If you're an INFJ, you're -not- worried about offending people; you're worried about actually bettering their life. Sometimes people do not realize they have to suffer to learn. It's not that we cause suffering, but we may allow it; or even more, we may just say or do what needs to be said or done, while being aware of one's skewed perception of what they might mean for their own feelings, we disregard that as getting in the way of the mission of protection and betterment.

Being who I am, and always being who I am, I was diagnosed by some pretty smart people very quickly as being "INFJ". OF course, at the time, I hardly had a clue why anyone was referring to me like I was yet another brand new Government Agency.

It took them very little time to peg me. And I was angry about it.

Very.

I have met none like me, and the people I know say they have met none like me; and I know quite a few people.

And I am told this by strangers, and everyone really. All the time. It's a fact of my life.

So when I was told that there was a description of my type somewhere, I scoffed, and I was annoyed, and I argued to the end that I could not be stuck in some silly white coat's paradigm.

But of course... sometimes even I am surprised.

Now while I do not necessarily completely belong in the "INFJ" camp, neither do I entirely to -ANY- of the other possibilities.

I took a cognitive function test not too long ago that kept telling me that my answers were impossible and that I had to provide more realistic and human results.

WHAT?

I am capable of anything and everything. I consider all sides. I feel all sides. I AM man; I AM woman. I'm not a transexual, so you understand that's not the point.

There is nothing beyond my capability and there is nothing that someone has gone through that I do not understand. There is nothing that I cannot do. All things belong to me.

It only seems crazy, and sometimes it feels crazy. But not only do I believe this, everyone around me willfully and commonly say these things to me about me. It is always, "I have never met anyone quite like you."

My brother, he points and me and says, "You... YOU...." (actually both brothers do it), as if to say, "You don't understand what you really are and if we were equipped with what you have, we would own all!"

My life has been incredibly stressful however. And in large part because of the choices I made to always be for the bettering of someone else's life over mine. Ironically, now having a family, they are like a part of me, so sometimes they are neglected by me in favor of strangers. At first this was difficult, but once my wife got on board with the idea, we became a functioning unit in which no one feels left out, but quite the opposite. Now our attention is focused on others as much as we are able and we are literally united in all things.

Now interestingly enough, we both tested as "INFP" at that new test. We may function as a unit as "INFP", but separately we are actually two different personalities. I think that is another interesting topic - the personality type of a "unit" or a "body". Indeed.

I tested as 60% ENFP the second time I took it because I was answering towards the goal of the test; to focus on what made sense to answer based upon the previous question and answer.

It got me thinking.

I am quite the Inspirer, but it's never on purpose. NEVER. But then, when I think about my actions, they do indeed inspire.

Well, to some, it is threatening. I am not always well-liked by the people that point out my abilities.

When I was in highschool, there was a popular girl, good looking, strong, athletic, smart, all around one of the best. She participated in all and was pretty much the All-American out of 700 students in our class.

Of course, I didn't know that. I wasn't interested at all in the politics of school, or who was popular, or anything like that. Even the nerds rejected me as some kind of untouchable. Like, the OTAKU rejected me, okay? Well, I guess to be rejected you have to desire to apply, but they rejected me with their glances and arrogant phrases. There was no one for me to be "grouped" with.

Well, that's not entirely true. Good looking girls had no problem talking with me, and I talked with them. Not all of them, just a few. They were my favorites to be around as well. No sexual activity involved.

Now I'm married to a woman of a caliber similar to the only kind of group that accepted me. Rockin'.

Back to the story of the All-American girl I never heard of until the day she reamed me out though.

She got on the bus and reamed me out in front of everyone.

This was gym class. I didn't participate in school sponsored stuff at all.

We had just got done bowling at the bowling alley. I bowled well, something like a 215 or 220. I don't remember.

What I do remember is that it pissed her off.

Not because I got a high score... She wasn't shallow. She yelled at me for being good at everything without hardly any application or effort whatsoever.

She said, "I bust my ass to get my grades, to be in shape, to play these sports, to win the games, to do everything I do. And you're better than all of us at everything you do and you don't apply yourself to shit. It's disgusting and I'm sick of it. If you put any effort at all into anything, you have no idea what you would be. But you're not going to do that are you?"

She actually made me feel really, really bad.

I never thought of it that way. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HER.

This all has a point. "Bear" with me.

In elementary school, I desperately wanted to make friends and to interact with people. But I was utterly tortured every day of my life. LITERALLY. Now I do not hold any grudges against little children, regardless of whether they were little devils or not. We all become adults and have to face our consequences and the harsh reality that really no one should have to make it worse for anyone than it already is. However, I cannot deny the reality of how those events shaped me.

What if... I was supposed to be an ENFP? As a small child, I think that might have been very true.

What if I was beaten into my shadow? What if I mastered my shadow? What if I'm a shadow INFJ?

What if I was forced to master the cognitive functions that were not natural for me?

Imagine that it is possible that I am an ENFP equipped also with the ability to function as as easily if not better as an INFJ; therefore having at my disposal every single cognitive function at my disposal with as much power as I desire?

I know people have asked similar questions in the past, but I don't think anyone ever thought of it exactly like this.

Most people say, "If I work on my shadow functions, I'll be super powerful!"

But in reality, you don't work on them.

-THEY- work on you.

Life does it.

And what can you do?

You see, they have literally been able to find the general localities of the cognitive functions in the brain.

Te and Fe occupy the same general space. Si and Ni occupy the same general space. Ti and Fi occupy the same space. Se and Ne occupy the same general space.

The brain looks like this, as a general rule:

Front of brain (overhead)
Left Right
Te Fe | Se Ne
-----------------
Si Ni | Ti Fi

Rear of brain (overhead)

Now I find it very interesting that two cognitive functions are found in the same general space. That tells me that each quarter of the brain focuses on -one- or the other function........ usually.

But what if the brain found a way to access both cognitive functions at the same time and to blend them, creating a new function?

Like this:

TFe | SNe
-------------
SNi | TFi

We already know that thinking and feeling are rational functions and intuition and sensing are irrational functions.

So therefore:

Re | Ie
---------
Ii | Ri

Where R = Rational and I = Irrational

Now we know the brain does not cross over or work diagonal, for the most part. It fires on one side up or down or down or up and then the other side up or down or down or up. It fires first on the left or first on the right, depending on the function.

What if the brain found a way to turn that whirlwind into two whirlwinds which communicate over the corpus callosum?

What if you are two in one? You function as one identity, but you really are two?

It makes sense... you have two parents, and they come together to make you.

You are made up of billions of living things anyway.

The brain has two sides each having its own desired process and function.

Especially interesting because on the outside we are more or less symmetrical, but the internal processor is -NOT- symmetrial, but divided and disallowing diagonal crossover for the most part.

Interesting, I think.

At any rate, I've not cut into a brain myself, so the speculation is hardly useful at all.

What is useful to me is understanding how I work. I fully believe everyone is capable, nay, maybe even more capable of all that I am able to do. I am but a mere mortal and I make many mistakes. But that is not how I am perceived by most that know me (though they will have no problem assaulting me for every move and assumed mistake that I make in an attempt to knock me down off a horse upon which I actually do not sit...).

ENFP in INFJ mask? Or vice-versa? Or do I know something you don't?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I toyed with Enneagram for a while, then I looked into it more. Ennegram numbers are not found within the brain. I do no ascribe to it because every number fits a unique aspect of me to a "T". Those descriptions to me are purely situational and they do not represent -who you are- forever, but more-so what you are inclined at the present moment.

Without even the snap of a finger I can change my mood to suit any of the descriptions for whatever purpose I desire. It was frustrating at first, and even MBTI, socionics, etc. all become frustrating because the idea is that you -must- have weaknesses over which you cannot come.

I despise that which tells me I am not able, because I am infinitely capable. It's a matter of feeling and reason as to what is good, bad, wise, or unwise to do.

But thank you very much for the interest at any rate!
 

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But you do have some perpetual thoughts about how to succeed in life, don't you? Have you done this test? http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/cog_jung.pl It's centered around the cognitive functions. I don't think you should interpret archetypes as a mandatory for having weaknesses. I like to think of the shadowfunctions as functions you don't use that much, because your dominant function gives you fullfillment in other ways. For example: I'm locked up in my own room for 3 days thinking, reading, watching arthouse movies, etc. etc. on regular basis and I don't feel bad about it at all, even if people see me as a hermit (Ni-Se clash?). Oh and by the way, which enneagram did you score (just curious. :tongue:)?
 

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My way of being is drastically different than in real life. I'm quite like how I am after I've known someone a long time. It's a lovely outlet to open up when a persons opportunity irl to do so is, limited.

It's interesting to me how people are infatuated with other people's types. I think whatever you are you are. You and your closest of confidents know you best. I'm happy to see people self exploring and absolutely am a fan of enneagram as frustrating as it can be to determining your type(especially if you're older and have had life experience or want not).

I really enjoyed your post and sharing your thoughts ... I hope you come to enjoy the forums :)
 

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I toyed with Enneagram for a while, then I looked into it more. Ennegram numbers are not found within the brain. I do no ascribe to it because every number fits a unique aspect of me to a "T". Those descriptions to me are purely situational and they do not represent -who you are- forever, but more-so what you are inclined at the present moment.

Without even the snap of a finger I can change my mood to suit any of the descriptions for whatever purpose I desire. It was frustrating at first, and even MBTI, socionics, etc. all become frustrating because the idea is that you -must- have weaknesses over which you cannot come.

I despise that which tells me I am not able, because I am infinitely capable. It's a matter of feeling and reason as to what is good, bad, wise, or unwise to do.

But thank you very much for the interest at any rate!
enneagram is not about moods or behaviour. If you look at it from that perspective then of course in different situations you display all 9 types. This fact is stated on many enneagram sites.

Enneagram is about a core issue, a weakness, a vulnerability, which we try to overcompensate for.

I suspect you might be 3w4 by enneagram.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You can suspect whatever you want. Applying fairy tales to people doesn't make them who you think they are. Enneagram is no better than Horoscope.

The Enneagram descriptions match behaviors to which we are -all- accustomed. It is a sham.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
But you do have some perpetual thoughts about how to succeed in life, don't you? Have you done this test? http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/cog_jung.pl It's centered around the cognitive functions. I don't think you should interpret archetypes as a mandatory for having weaknesses. I like to think of the shadowfunctions as functions you don't use that much, because your dominant function gives you fullfillment in other ways. For example: I'm locked up in my own room for 3 days thinking, reading, watching arthouse movies, etc. etc. on regular basis and I don't feel bad about it at all, even if people see me as a hermit (Ni-Se clash?). Oh and by the way, which enneagram did you score (just curious. :tongue:)?
Edit to add: Your link is not working for me. I have a suspicion I've already been there however.

You may not think I should interpret archetypes as a mandatory for having weaknesses... but that's exactly what it is. It is not open to interpretation. That is the -purpose- of archetypes. Types all together really indicate some sort of weakness. Now while it is true we have weaknesses as the mere mortals that we are, and we have a natural function, I also whole-heartedly believe that life forces some of us to adapt against our natural ways. Some more than others.

The more you open up the type tree, the more complex, and therefore, the weaker you make each individual.

But if you intend to make things right, you will simply things, find how they are interrelated, and show them to be the unified creature that they are.

Hence why I would rather refer to the functions as External Rational, External Irrational, Internal Rational, Internal Irrational.

Making things more complex solves nothing and causes more problems. Simplifying gets us closer to solving the problem and unifying the creature.

Like I said, I tested frequently over time for different positions in Enneagram. I quickly realized it was no better than Horoscope.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My way of being is drastically different than in real life. I'm quite like how I am after I've known someone a long time. It's a lovely outlet to open up when a persons opportunity irl to do so is, limited.

It's interesting to me how people are infatuated with other people's types. I think whatever you are you are. You and your closest of confidents know you best. I'm happy to see people self exploring and absolutely am a fan of enneagram as frustrating as it can be to determining your type(especially if you're older and have had life experience or want not).

I really enjoyed your post and sharing your thoughts ... I hope you come to enjoy the forums :)
Thank you very much for the welcome Kitty.

No, "I" don't know me best. I only wish I did. I had to spend a long time learning about myself to understand the little that I do know.

Everyone else sees me the same way... it's a way I can never see myself. I have no idea. Even the mirror is a lie.

Lots of work went into understanding at all. Thank you very much though.
 

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You may not think I should interpret archetypes as a mandatory for having weaknesses... but that's exactly what it is. It is not open to interpretation. That is the -purpose- of archetypes. Types all together really indicate some sort of weakness. Now while it is true we have weaknesses as the mere mortals that we are, and we have a natural function, I also whole-heartedly believe that life forces some of us to adapt against our natural ways. Some more than others.

The more you open up the type tree, the more complex, and therefore, the weaker you make each individual.

But if you intend to make things right, you will simply things, find how they are interrelated, and show them to be the unified creature that they are.

Hence why I would rather refer to the functions as External Rational, External Irrational, Internal Rational, Internal Irrational.

Making things more complex solves nothing and causes more problems. Simplifying gets us closer to solving the problem and unifying the creature.

Like I said, I tested frequently over time for different positions in Enneagram. I quickly realized it was no better than Horoscope.
Neatly written! Now I understand your point of view much better! :happy: Your OP kept me thinking and it came to my mind that the most solid 'proofs' of me being an INFJ are based on the interrelationship with other people. I know I'm not an INTJ/ENTJ because I know a bunch of them and I've experienced the subtle similarities and the subtle differences. Next to that, it seems probable to me that you could be somewhere in the middle between an ENFP and INFJ, cognitive functions are differently developed in every individual, although there seem to be many patterns which you can discover. I'm not really sure whether I can agree with you on your opinion if enneagrams are to be trusted or not. I do know that I have
a core issue, a weakness, a vulnerability, which I try to overcompensate for.
, but I don't have any evidence that everybody has it (although I strongly believe it) and if it's there in the same way as in my life. Besides, I'm just 19 and you're much older, perhaps life experience would give me more witness of profound change. But.. The 5w4 enneagram describes the person I've been uptill now in a very precise manner and I'm confident with it, maybe I'm just a informationslut who doesn't change that much, but that doesn't bother me at all. :happy:
 

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Although the Myers Briggs test and tests like it have been accurate for a lot of people, that doesn't mean they have to restrict you. For instance, INFJs are known to not care about offending people... they'd rather better them in any way possible; and although I am very set on helping people reach their goals and succeed in life, I am terrified of offending people. Sometimes I say things spontaneously that I regret later and I pick apart everything I do to make sure I am NOT offending people. I want to make people as comfortable as possible...

This is only one place where my type doesn't fit me.

I also took the test twice and tested for INFP the second time.

There is no way we can possibly categorize people under 16 groups, no matter how hard we try. Everyone is different, even if we have similarities. All INFJs are different. All ENFPs are different.

I know, it's frustrating, but you have to go with your gut. Be who you want to be and not what a personality test spat out for you.
 

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lol I thought I was INFJ or INTJ for a bit then eventually realized I'm an ENFP with a shit ton of walls up. Or maybe I'm deceiving myself and I'm still missing another important piece of information. I don't know.

Just ignore all the labels and type descriptions and the godawful tests, seriously just look at the cognitive functions, study your thought processes, know how you got from point A to point B to point C. Your outward behavior is going to be effected by enneagram, if you'd even like to look into that. I was pretty frustrated with enneagram for a while because no combination was explaining EVERYTHING......and I frequently passed it off as pseudoscience crap that wasn't worth paying attention to.

I still don't relate completely to any of the descriptions, in fact I relate to many others more than I do ENFP. It's laughable when people tell me to look back for accuracy to find how I've been "most of my life" in order to know myself because I can look back and see many different people in many different situations and it was more complicated trying to find any of my types than I thought it would be because of that. All of those people are still innately "me" though. Not everyone's personality and underlying motives are going to be that easy to track.

Also, I probably wouldn't even trust my friends or parents or anyone to type me correctly. I'd be getting some pretty mixed results.
 
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