Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello fellow ENFPs! In this interview, I spoke with Mike Silberstein about what it's like to be an ENTP male Ne-Fe PC/B(S) FF. This interview was super fun and we talked about a whole range of topics from dealing with Mike's feminine Si to learning his identity as he grew older. Two lead Ne users makes for a great conversation!

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
@UberY0shi @Red Panda This is a pertinent interview to what we were discussing. Thanks @Respect !

At 18:07 he says his type is the exact same as Joseph Campbell's and Jordan Peterson's. This makes me sad, I thought Joseph Campbell was typed as ENFP, however I never really saw JC's Fi, so this makes sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
If you mean that he is emotional like JP, I don't see it at all, no manipulative dramatic displays. Unless you think I said that ENTPs can't show emotion, which wasn't what I meant at all.
No. It's not what I thought you meant. This guy is an ENTP who says his type is exactly Jordan Peterson's and Joseph Campbell's, so it gives another example of DaveSuperPowers' typing of what an ENTP Fe-jumper looks like and acts like.

I don't use "acts emotional" as a broadpoint in typing. Instead for me it's HOW they are emotional. Have you seen emotional ESTJs... I think you have. So just "emotional" doesn't describe the kind of emotion, when they get emotional, what they are emotional about, etc.

Compare a ESFJ or ENFJ's way of conveying emotion versus an ESTJ's or ENTJ's version of conveying emotion. You could use the word "emotional" for either one, but the ExFJ is going to be talking about emotions, asking people about emotions, and interested in emotional language, yet would hardly ever convey personal-related anger. The ExTJ is going to be reactive and volatile in their personal emotions. Which one is emotional?
I actually don't see JP as being anything but in the middle on interpreting emotions. He uses analogies and metaphors (Ne) to help people understand emotions (Fe) and he cares about packaging the things he can accomplish for people (tert Fe). I honestly see our tert function as being our end goal most of the time. His end goal is to help the world. Mine would be to use my Ne-Fi to impact the world (Te end game). But he packages his personal Ne-Ti reasoning on "how things work" for the emotional good of the tribe (end game Fe). That's what I see.

I wonder if I have some good examples for you out there on what ExFJs act like. Oprah is an excellent example of a healthy ENFJ. I find ESFJs when healthy to be very kind and validating while caring about sensory practical things almost exclusively, and when unhealthy ESFJs seem cliquey or back-biting and catty and always really consistently into their Si radar. Like Fe-Si "You must always look and act in THIS way." But even those observations of "catty" or "people collector" isn't what I look at to type. Instead, I see that they care about emotional stability and consensus in others with Fe and then the zeroing in on certain details with Si and then is there also some Ne there? A bit? That's how I type. I look for the direction of the emotionality and the direction of the information. Is it about the outside or the inside, basically.

Hey @Respect I'm further into the video now. When you start explaining your Fi at 47:00 then it's a bit tough on him until he starts talking Joseph Campbell-like again and making your experience into a holistic story. It's interesting to me to hear about you suppressing emotions. I think a few other ENFPs do too here. My INTJ brother suppressed all ideas that disagreed with his Ni-Te structure, he couldn't listen to information that was unlike how he thought the world was until he was 40 when he became a completely different person. My brother is a different guy now-- huge transition. So your story was interesting to me to hear that a ENFP can have the same experience, not with info but with emotion. Also your 7 story range true for me as a 7. "Well, if you can't make me feel good, at least I can make me feel good and that's what I've got to do." Yep, yep.
IMO we should get to know you better and you should get to know us here a bit too, since you're posting your stuff here. But you might not feel like you've got time, I don't know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Respect

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
@Llyralen Huh? What were we discussing again?

Also, he said his type is exactly Joseph Campbell. Jordan Peterson got typed as FF Ne-Ti CP-B(S).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
@Llyralen Huh? What were we discussing again?

Also, he said his type is exactly Joseph Campbell. Jordan Peterson got typed as FF Ne-Ti CP-B(S).
Agreed. I think Jordan Peterson is NE-Ti CP-B(S). I don't know enough about the masculine/feminine. But the quote from this guy at 18:07 is "I'm the exact type as Joseph Campbell-- also Jordan Peterson is a good person"

Anyway, all just to show what ENTPs look like. Sorry I confused you, UberY0shi, I wanted you to see the interview and I think there was something else that made me want to draw your attention to it, but I'm not sure what it was now either lol. Red Panda and I were talking on a different thread, it's her opinion that Jordan Peterson is an ENFJ.

I see this guy talking like Campbell and there is enough Ni there for him to talk a bit like Jordan Peterson who has enough Fe-- anyway, you can see it.

I went and listened to some ENFJs talking online just to get a better feel for them and check if people I personally type as ENFJ are ENFJ. Yeah, I feel pretty solid on it.

Where is the link to get DaveSuperPowers trained? Also what does OP typing stand for? Or did I hear wrong? OT? Objective typing?
 

·
exploring space
ENFP
Joined
·
9,110 Posts
I don't think JP is a F dom. A male FJ is not gonna be catty necessarily, since cattiness is a learned behavior in mostly female circles.

I don't think the tertiary being the "goal" has any validity, the tertiary is an inferior function we prefer second to last. There's no reason whatsoever for your tertiary to have such power, that's the whole purpose/role of the dominant conscious functions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Agreed. I think Jordan Peterson is NE-Ti CP-B(S). I don't know enough about the masculine/feminine. But the quote from this guy at 18:07 is "I'm the exact type as Joseph Campbell-- also Jordan Peterson is a good person"

Anyway, all just to show what ENTPs look like. Sorry I confused you, UberY0shi, I wanted you to see the interview and I think there was something else that made me want to draw your attention to it, but I'm not sure what it was now either lol. Red Panda and I were talking on a different thread, it's her opinion that Jordan Peterson is an ENFJ.

I see this guy talking like Campbell and there is enough Ni there for him to talk a bit like Jordan Peterson who has enough Fe-- anyway, you can see it.

I went and listened to some ENFJs talking online just to get a better feel for them and check if people I personally type as ENFJ are ENFJ. Yeah, I feel pretty solid on it.

Where is the link to get DaveSuperPowers trained? Also what does OP typing stand for? Or did I hear wrong? OT? Objective typing?
I still fumble around with things, but I can say this, Peterson disrespects data and scientific scrutiny like a motherfucker. It's not even funny. So assuming these modalities hold any shred of credibility, he is certainly "feminine" sensory with intuition taking priority.

And two hours? Fuuuuuuuuck me. That's a lot of shit to consume. GUESS I MUST BE BLAST! lol. I'll look into it. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
I still fumble around with things, but I can say this, Peterson disrespects data and scientific scrutiny like a motherfucker. It's not even funny. So assuming these modalities hold any shred of credibility, he is certainly "feminine" sensory with intuition taking priority.

And two hours? Fuuuuuuuuck me. That's a lot of shit to consume. GUESS I MUST BE BLAST! lol. I'll look into it. :wink:
Yeah... I was grading papers while it was going on. Also the above auto-corrected Ne to Ni... or maybe I Si messed it up.
Does the masculine/feminine thing show an opposite on the axis? For example, if I'm feminine Ne then do I have to be masculine Si? (This is what I think I am unless I'm masculine Ne and masculine Si.... but I think not. I think Ne F Fi M (I don't know....).

This is the part of it that I still need help with is the M F stuff. Help me UberWonKanY0shi, you are my only hope!
 
  • Like
Reactions: UberY0shi

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Yeah... I was grading papers while it was going on. Also the above auto-corrected Ne to Ni... or maybe I Si messed it up.
Does the masculine/feminine thing show an opposite on the axis? For example, if I'm feminine Ne then do I have to be masculine Si? (This is what I think I am unless I'm masculine Ne and masculine Si.... but I think not. I think Ne F Fi M (I don't know....).

This is the part of it that I still need help with is the M F stuff. Help me UberWonKanY0shi, you are my only hope!
It's funny cuz I took a lightsaber style test and scored Soresu for Obi Wan Kenobi. Back when I was still an INFP... :crying:

Objective Personality's system holds that the opposing function also carries the opposite modality. It works as a crosscheck due to its reliable track-ability. Or so they say. I suck at typing people. Masculine Ne likes to steer convos and forcibly change subjects however way their intuition flies off to. Also described as knocking S data block towers over or destroying stacks of cards.

Anecdotally, masculine sensory people tend to pause their sentences and struggle to recall specific names, dates, etc. And then feel bad or apologetic for not being able to recall them. Feminine sensory people don't give a fuck. "What did I have for dinner yesterday? Meh, who cares, why bother trying to remember that? Anyway so this concept right here..."

I suppose a personal anecdote is that I'll get angry and stop what I'm doing to try and provoke or elicit a memory of some song that I can't recall so I can replay the song through Spotify. The song ended up being Enya's Orinoco Flow. Granted, I only wanted to remember the song so I could trash talk/troll myself while working. Gotta practice my asshole remarks for any given situation. That would be masculine Si... in a sense.

But yes, if you are feminine Ne, you must be masculine Si. It's a binary coin cross check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
It's funny cuz I took a lightsaber style test and scored Soresu for Obi Wan Kenobi. Back when I was still an INFP... :crying:

Objective Personality's system holds that the opposing function also carries the opposite modality. It works as a crosscheck due to its reliable track-ability. Or so they say. I suck at typing people. Masculine Ne likes to steer convos and forcibly change subjects however way their intuition flies off to. Also described as knocking S data block towers over or destroying stacks of cards.

Anecdotally, masculine sensory people tend to pause their sentences and struggle to recall specific names, dates, etc. And then feel bad or apologetic for not being able to recall them. Feminine sensory people don't give a fuck. "What did I have for dinner yesterday? Meh, who cares, why bother trying to remember that? Anyway so this concept right here..."

I suppose a personal anecdote is that I'll get angry and stop what I'm doing to try and provoke or elicit a memory of some song that I can't recall so I can replay the song through Spotify. The song ended up being Enya's Orinoco Flow. Granted, I only wanted to remember the song so I could trash talk/troll myself while working. Gotta practice my asshole remarks for any given situation. That would be masculine Si... in a sense.

But yes, if you are feminine Ne, you must be masculine Si. It's a binary coin cross check.
Okay, how can you spot this? I am very careful about my facts, I'm actually learning that I lose tons of time over it, but I'm a stickler on backing up my facts with sources, etc. Well, and would this be the reason that people who don't care about facts get on my nerves? I'm like... I just told you the research, I showed you the research from a creditable site and it is strong research.....dang...I don't think this person cares about research at all....
Hmm... or am I wrong? Does my Ne have more of an agenda? We must talk about X?
Can you tell at this point? You know me okay enough to try?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Okay, how can you spot this? I am very careful about my facts, I'm actually learning that I lose tons of time over it, but I'm a stickler on backing up my facts with sources, etc. Well, and would this be the reason that people who don't care about facts get on my nerves? I'm like... I just told you the research, I showed you the research from a creditable site and it is strong research.....dang...I don't think this person cares about research at all....
Hmm... or am I wrong? Does my Ne have more of an agenda? We must talk about X?
Can you tell at this point? You know me okay enough to try?
Facts, sources, methods of experimentation/gathering facts, verifying credibility, cross-referencing peer review studies, calculating for error, improvement suggestions, all that good stuff. It's great. I just won't waste the time doing it. That's why I value people that do all that dirty work for me. I understand that it's important, I just suck at doing it, or rather I am convinced of the belief that I suck at them. It's not hard, just don't wanna do et.

Not sure if that's masculine Si. Dave/Shan describe it as enforcement. follow the rules or get hammered

OMG YOU DIDN'T GRAMMAR. R U SHTOOPID?

I exaggerate. But I used to destroy people's hopes and dreams when helping them write essays, just because they couldn't organize their thoughts properly and displayed their understanding of grammar as "tap keys on the keyboard and hope it looks good".

I'm worse about it than you are, methinks. If people don't respect the facts, I'll dismiss them in condescending ways. Now someone can argue those facts, that's great. Except I've already verified these facts and any attempt to argue over them will only result in a fun exercise of me making them look bad. I did this a lot when coaching in League. Gotta admit, felt pretty good doing it. *evil Y0shi*

Then I felt bad. :crying:

Feminine Ne is more like, looking at the data and trying to create concepts out of the data. I honestly don't see the logic in a different method so maybe I'm just totally blinded by my bias or something. It'll toss out theories and concepts if new facts come in that dismantle the concepts. It also seems to be the emergent trait of conceptual references. I can see connections between coaching styles and teaching presentations, but based on the facts they or I may be working on, judge the presentation/styles as flawed or something. Not sure. Dave/Shan use a picture of a river branching off indefinitely until it hits the ocean. Feminine Ne kinda makes fun of Ni for focusing on one banked-on outcome, since feminine Ne would have already considered that possibility in weighed against others.

These are getting to be lame definitions of Ne vs Ni so I'll drop it.

Ne having an agenda? Idk. Maybe it's more like, oh what you said just made me think about this so let's talk about this now. What? You wanna focus on the original point? Of course! But I need to talk about this point in order to answer the original point. *totally drives convo away*

Matt Dillahunty trashed Peterson for this.

Matt: No, answer the question.
McPeterson: But, to understand it we gotta define this and explore this.
Matt: Naw, we don't. You can answer it first.

Feminine Si doesn't really "disrespect facts". That's more like demon S. What it really does is look for a sense of order and clarity of the facts. Like lists. Bullet points. Recipe books. UGH, FUCK INSTRUCTION MANUALS. You remember James Bond? He knows how it's done.


Assuming the timestamp didn't work: go to 3:40 near the end. Fuck feminine Si. LOL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
I don't think JP is a F dom. A male FJ is not gonna be catty necessarily, since cattiness is a learned behavior in mostly female circles.

I don't think the tertiary being the "goal" has any validity, the tertiary is an inferior function we prefer second to last. There's no reason whatsoever for your tertiary to have such power, that's the whole purpose/role of the dominant conscious functions.

I thought you said you see JP as an ENFJ? You don't? I was mistaken then. It's fine.

Well, the tertiary being your life-goal was a theory I saw and I started to see truth in it everywhere as people age. Its kind of like your first 2 functions get very good at doing what they do, but for what purpose? The tertiary function would be it in this theory. Let me show you how it works in my mind and observation. I'm having problems the wording, but something like:

ENTP = explores ideas/possibilities with logic in order to experience belonging and benefit their tribe (or impact their tribe's values)
ENFP= explores ideas/possibilities with individual values in order make a logical impact on their tribe/the world
ENFJ = impacts their group's values using abstract concepts in order to fully experience life
INFP= Defines their individual feelings and values using imagination and possibilities in order to create personal well-being and order
INFJ= Sees abstract concepts and studies the groups' values in order to define their personal logic and reasoning.
ISTP= Defines their individual logic and reasoning about the outside world in order to see/understand abstract concepts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
When asked a question on typing questionnaire videos, I always state that my ultimate goal is to immortalize myself and indefinitely bring timeless value to humanity long after death. Tertiary Fe life goals?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
Facts, sources, methods of experimentation/gathering facts, verifying credibility, cross-referencing peer review studies, calculating for error, improvement suggestions, all that good stuff. It's great. I just won't waste the time doing it. That's why I value people that do all that dirty work for me. I understand that it's important, I just suck at doing it, or rather I am convinced of the belief that I suck at them. It's not hard, just don't wanna do et.

Not sure if that's masculine Si. Dave/Shan describe it as enforcement. follow the rules or get hammered

OMG YOU DIDN'T GRAMMAR. R U SHTOOPID?

I exaggerate. But I used to destroy people's hopes and dreams when helping them write essays, just because they couldn't organize their thoughts properly and displayed their understanding of grammar as "tap keys on the keyboard and hope it looks good".

I'm worse about it than you are, methinks. If people don't respect the facts, I'll dismiss them in condescending ways. Now someone can argue those facts, that's great. Except I've already verified these facts and any attempt to argue over them will only result in a fun exercise of me making them look bad. I did this a lot when coaching in League. Gotta admit, felt pretty good doing it. *evil Y0shi*

Then I felt bad. :crying:

Feminine Ne is more like, looking at the data and trying to create concepts out of the data. I honestly don't see the logic in a different method so maybe I'm just totally blinded by my bias or something. It'll toss out theories and concepts if new facts come in that dismantle the concepts. It also seems to be the emergent trait of conceptual references. I can see connections between coaching styles and teaching presentations, but based on the facts they or I may be working on, judge the presentation/styles as flawed or something. Not sure. Dave/Shan use a picture of a river branching off indefinitely until it hits the ocean. Feminine Ne kinda makes fun of Ni for focusing on one banked-on outcome, since feminine Ne would have already considered that possibility in weighed against others.

These are getting to be lame definitions of Ne vs Ni so I'll drop it.

Ne having an agenda? Idk. Maybe it's more like, oh what you said just made me think about this so let's talk about this now. What? You wanna focus on the original point? Of course! But I need to talk about this point in order to answer the original point. *totally drives convo away*

Matt Dillahunty trashed Peterson for this.

Matt: No, answer the question.
McPeterson: But, to understand it we gotta define this and explore this.
Matt: Naw, we don't. You can answer it first.

Feminine Si doesn't really "disrespect facts". That's more like demon S. What it really does is look for a sense of order and clarity of the facts. Like lists. Bullet points. Recipe books. UGH, FUCK INSTRUCTION MANUALS. You remember James Bond? He knows how it's done.


Assuming the timestamp didn't work: go to 3:40 near the end. Fuck feminine Si. LOL.
I don't get it, yet..... How do Dave/Shan explain Masculine and Feminine Ne? Ne is a branching thing to the ocean for me. I'm surprised I haven't used that analogy before. I have used a tree branching before... but that's how I describe Ne in general because that's how I experience it.

What about Fi? My Fi is pretty rigid if that's how you figure it all out.... Rigid/aggressive or fluid/submissive? Is that kind of...it?
My Fi is not very compromising and my husband's Fi is compromising.... hmmmm. Help?

Also... I wouldn't make fun of Ni. I trust Ni people to do Ni pretty well and feel their ideas are special. For instance, if I'm looking at 15 things and unsure which one is the best... maybe X... maybe Y... maybe M...and my INFJ friend says "I think you should do X." Then somehow I all of a sudden can see exactly why it is the best option through their eyes and.... yeah, it's special. I feel like it's kind of magic. Sometimes I'll be trying to come up with a reference and my mind is branching into 6 things but none of them seem right and my INFJ friend says "I think you/re thinking of [this name] and I'm just like... how do you know? I had 6 incorrect branches reaching out in my head. Oh no.... I think they should trust their Ni just like we trust our Ne. It's just if they aren't taking in enough information that Ni looks bad. But for us it's just when we aren't organizing and choosing better that we look crazy too. Too J or too P..... and darn it, I am a very strong perceiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
I remember seeing that guy, Mike, in another video years ago saying he was ENFP. I doubt he's an ENTP. He seems like such a Feeler (This is probably why he thinks he's double feminine ENTP :eek:h:), but maybe my opinion would change watching him talk more about himself, except I can't help but think he's falling into self-confirmation bias with this new ENTP typing. It's a shame to see so many people being misled by Dave Super Powers and buying into his obfuscation of Jungian typology. Why do people pay $19 per month for this? That's a genuine question because I think he's ripping them off.

Joseph Campbell is definitely an NF. Not an ENTP. That is obvious. I also doubt Peterson is an ENTP. Way too much Ni. If this is an indication of how Dave Super Powers types objectively...:distrust:
 

·
exploring space
ENFP
Joined
·
9,110 Posts
I thought you said you see JP as an ENFJ? You don't? I was mistaken then. It's fine.

Well, the tertiary being your life-goal was a theory I saw and I started to see truth in it everywhere as people age. Its kind of like your first 2 functions get very good at doing what they do, but for what purpose? The tertiary function would be it in this theory. Let me show you how it works in my mind and observation. I'm having problems the wording, but something like:

ENTP = explores ideas/possibilities with logic in order to experience belonging and benefit their tribe (or impact their tribe's values)
ENFP= explores ideas/possibilities with individual values in order make a logical impact on their tribe/the world
ENFJ = impacts their group's values using abstract concepts in order to fully experience life
INFP= Defines their individual feelings and values using imagination and possibilities in order to create personal well-being and order
INFJ= Sees abstract concepts and studies the groups' values in order to define their personal logic and reasoning.
ISTP= Defines their individual logic and reasoning about the outside world in order to see/understand abstract concepts.
No, JP is an INJ, just not the social recluse kind.

One can make anything sound logical without further investigation if they twist meanings, definitions and premises enough to suit them each time.
People who believe their tertiary is leading their conscious are either mistyped or just don't understand enough yet, as it makes no sense for this to be happening, as it beats the whole role of the existence of a dominant function and the conscious dom-aux pair.

For example, the reason why ENPs end up contributing to the world is because they are competent to do so and are able to perceive things the norm doesn't. Plus, humans are social animals, the need to contribute and be productive are hardwired regardless of type.
The ENFJ doesn't make sense to me at all, impacting the group's values which they do, is about aligning everyone with them and consequently leads to experiencing less things. The INFP one is derived from the needs of mistyped Js and Ss that flood the type. The INFJ makes more sense but that's because INFJs are all about subjectivity due to their conscious functions anyway. The ISTP one makes no sense to me either, how their ST combo would lead them to experience more N, when it really suppresses N.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
@Red Panda. We just disagree. We are looking for different things. It is not hardwired in most types to try to impact the world as far as I can see.... it’s not a strong wish in everyone. Comfort or Fame alone can be a wish in some.... take our president. Lol.
To my mind. ESTP= gather sensory input, deal with it according to personal reasons/logic (Ti) in order to gain popularity of the tribe (Fe).
That’s how I see things. Also in Neuroscience Natdi talks about at midlife how we’ve got our first 2 functions almost maxed out in development and start to really work on that third function. This is what I see at this mid-life time in my life in myself and others. Since it was really in my 30s that I started to impact things around me with Te, I’ve actually had to take a step back and start to explore my Fi more. It had taken a back burner for a while.

Anyway, we just see things differently— I’m okay with that.
@mistakenforstranger. What don’t you like about DaveSuperPowers ideas?

I don’t see Ni in JP— his Ne is expansive and exploratory and not conclusive but exploding and also vocalized. He explores while talking like an Ne dom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mistakenforstranger

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,547 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->
@<b><a href="https://www.personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=418626" target="_blank">UberY0shi</a></b>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->. That’s how I see it! /smile
See what? What I say? :unsure:

Dave/Shan posit that your Extroverted/Introverted Deciders have modalities too. In other words, if you were masculine Fi, then feminine Te.


Look at 7:15.

Also regarding the Ne making fun of Ni. I think you gave that little point too much weight with the whole joking or something. It's just the idea of Ne looking at several ideas, Ni working on a single idea. It doesn't hold much if any anecdotal weight for self-confirmation/crosschecking purposes.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top