Personality Cafe banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, ENFP here. Me: got it on good authority I'm intelligent, empathetic, often too insistent with morals, make big generalisations (always make sure they're correct in big picture sense, detail orientated people hate them though), love arguing for the sake of it, am getting better at not taking other people's view on my opinions to heart.

My ENTP brother is a genius. One of the cleverest people I've ever known, we understand each other very well, and have a great connection, share lots of interests etc. He has a terrible habit of cutting people down whenever they say something that either he hasn't thought of and therefore conflicts with his logic, or that needs a little development to reach his level.

I have always been sensitive, especially as a child. My brother always used to tell me I was stupid (after whatever comment or observation I made), and for some reason, him saying it really hurt and I always cried. Maybe because he seems genuinely angry when he says it?

Anyway, I used to cry whenever I used to get directly challenged or put down, but I've learnt to overcome this, and most of the time I find it a fun challenge to get someone to see my point of view, after an initial disagreement, after making them understand I see their point of view too.

However, my ENTP brother has the amazing ability to cut right into me, not even just by calling me stupid (which he still does, when I make a generalisation that he wants to add infinite clauses to, when in fact I know the clauses, think they're too obvious to him and everyone else so don't bother to point them out, and a couple of steps later, after collecting a lot of evidence, this is the general outcome...), for instance just got off the phone to me, and didn't have any time because he was busy (then why did he pick up!!) and then angrily said over and over he couldn't talk and he didn't have time. When I asked him when was a better time to talk, he couldn't answer and just said he couldn't talk!! I tried to laugh it off but as soon as I hung up I cried a bit...YUCK!!

So, you clever ENTPs, please could you tell me what the best tactics are for when an ENTP angrily disagrees/dismisses you as stupid, when in fact you were providing an interesting and valid point of view that could either be a step on the way to their view, a complementary perspective, or even a couple of steps ahead of them...
 
  • Like
Reactions: NaughyChimp

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts
No one should be calling you stupid. We NT's tend to freak out when people take longer to get to the "right" conclusions, but someone who's balanced should never react like that. Either way, I don't think your brother actually means it (the proof being he actually comes back to talk to you, he seems to enjoy it). I'd try to talk to him, and talk back whenever he does it. Not in a violent way, but be upfront. ENTPs like sincerity.

You didn't mention his age. Maybe it's just his testosterone going a little bit out of hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You didn't mention his age. Maybe it's just his testosterone going a little bit out of hand.
I'm early twenties, he's 30! So not a teenage thing unfortunately...it may be something to do with the fact it's a recurring pattern, and so even if he's learnt to be less aggressive, I know exactly what he's feeling.

I always want to talk back, but then my throat gets all tight and I want to cry. Gaaahd I hate it!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,227 Posts
I'm early twenties, he's 30! So not a teenage thing unfortunately...it may be something to do with the fact it's a recurring pattern, and so even if he's learnt to be less aggressive, I know exactly what he's feeling.

I always want to talk back, but then my throat gets all tight and I want to cry. Gaaahd I hate it!!
well then don't talk back..
just be upfront about how his criticism/incisiveness and coldness makes you feel.

that would make me more careful, anyway.

But if it's about your opinions/viewpoints it's not a personal thing for him.For him, he is not aiming it at you, as a person.Maybe looking at it that way helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
hmm that's seriously tough. I used to be much more cold and dismissive when I was younger but I have mellowed out quite a bit as I have gotten older. I'm 30 for reference...so that doesn't help since your brother is already there. Of course the straight forward solution would be---just care less. But that is not easy; and probably not feasible.

Sometimes when people get sick of me and YELL at me I finally realize what a jerk I'm being. But he's your brother so I'm not sure how well that would work---after all family is forever, and you can lose friends or SOs.

maybe when someone else answers something wrong and he cuts them down you can go "whoooop deeee doooo, so they're wrong, the Earth is still spinning, who cares?". Sometimes we need aggression straight in the face to realize we're being unfair and cruel. And depending on our mood, we may or may not respond to it. It will have to be an appeal to knowledge though, not feelings. We don't respond well to what we consider overly emotional displays. We feel frustrated and overwhelmed and like we "just don't have time for this".

My older brother is an INTP and by far the super genius of our family. He can be like this as well...cold and cuts people off from his life. He has a hard time caring about people whose values conflict with his and he can be quite extreme in his views (all or nothing kind of deal). He's become much more thoughtful as he got older (40) and we can talk about things easier but he used to hurt my feelings a lot when I was younger (and I'm an NT!!!) and my younger brother was unfortunately irreparably scarred by his treatment (he's a Feeler). I was able to divorce myself from his opinion and walk away---to just not care what he thinks of me, what I like, what I do with my life etc. He still passes judgment at times and it can be hurtful but it passes quickly. It is difficult for me to give you advice however as my coping mechanisms would be so much different than an NFs :(

Perhaps there are NFs married to NTs, related to them, close friends that could possibly give you some insight? Or (haha) I could ask how my friends deal with me ;) I tend to surround myself with NFs...ya'll frustrate me but you're so damn sincere and true. And NICE. It melts my cold core ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,228 Posts
It's a big brother thing as well, though, never mind the typology. My two closest brothers in age are I think ENFP, and they did this to me. My ENFJ husband does it too. It's a male pecking order thing....as a child I dealt with it by being cleverer, and it worked (I had many a chessboard tipped by my losing big brother....).

I don't have an answer for you, really, except that you should try to keep your eyes on the prize: your brother almost certainly loves you., and when the chips are down, he will be there for you.
I guess I would just engage with him most of the time in the arena of intellect and ideas. Most of the time in the workaday world feelings aren't that important, but ideas are always cool. I think that you should save discussion of feeling for when something serious is going on, when feeling is always appropriate?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,800 Posts
Your brothers, there will be some rival. He will love you no matter what. Now his behavior, well people who put others down are actually insecure, so lets say he has insecure issues. And you being an amazing ENFP, well say no more. I'd be jealous too ; D.....oh wait, i am ENFP, so yeah, i know that awesome feeling ;-)...hope things work out, as i'm sure they will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: r00bic0n

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
well then don't talk back..
just be upfront about how his criticism/incisiveness and coldness makes you feel.

that would make me more careful, anyway.

But if it's about your opinions/viewpoints it's not a personal thing for him.For him, he is not aiming it at you, as a person.Maybe looking at it that way helps.
Okay true, I should be upfront about it...usually halfway on my way to crying at the opportune moment however!!
I know it's not personal, but I think it's a habit that affects others apart from me as well...so you're probably right, I should just buckle up and confront him next time :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
hmm that's seriously tough. I used to be much more cold and dismissive when I was younger but I have mellowed out quite a bit as I have gotten older. I'm 30 for reference...so that doesn't help since your brother is already there. Of course the straight forward solution would be---just care less. But that is not easy; and probably not feasible.

Sometimes when people get sick of me and YELL at me I finally realize what a jerk I'm being. But he's your brother so I'm not sure how well that would work---after all family is forever, and you can lose friends or SOs.

maybe when someone else answers something wrong and he cuts them down you can go "whoooop deeee doooo, so they're wrong, the Earth is still spinning, who cares?". Sometimes we need aggression straight in the face to realize we're being unfair and cruel. And depending on our mood, we may or may not respond to it. It will have to be an appeal to knowledge though, not feelings. We don't respond well to what we consider overly emotional displays. We feel frustrated and overwhelmed and like we "just don't have time for this".

My older brother is an INTP and by far the super genius of our family. He can be like this as well...cold and cuts people off from his life. He has a hard time caring about people whose values conflict with his and he can be quite extreme in his views (all or nothing kind of deal). He's become much more thoughtful as he got older (40) and we can talk about things easier but he used to hurt my feelings a lot when I was younger (and I'm an NT!!!) and my younger brother was unfortunately irreparably scarred by his treatment (he's a Feeler). I was able to divorce myself from his opinion and walk away---to just not care what he thinks of me, what I like, what I do with my life etc. He still passes judgment at times and it can be hurtful but it passes quickly. It is difficult for me to give you advice however as my coping mechanisms would be so much different than an NFs :(

Perhaps there are NFs married to NTs, related to them, close friends that could possibly give you some insight? Or (haha) I could ask how my friends deal with me ;) I tend to surround myself with NFs...ya'll frustrate me but you're so damn sincere and true. And NICE. It melts my cold core ;)
Yeah he definitely has mellowed out...I think it might be that I should just toughen up a bit, however I think he needs to tone it down on his side too. NFs and NTs get on very well together though - it's possibly because we're so close and love each other so much that I am that much more shocked and upset when he suddenly gets annoyed or angry with me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,227 Posts
Okay true, I should be upfront about it...usually halfway on my way to crying at the opportune moment however!!
I know it's not personal, but I think it's a habit that affects others apart from me as well...so you're probably right, I should just buckle up and confront him next time :)
Well, use his own weapons against him.Confront him, but not with tears in our eyes but with 'aye, someone's being a real bastard'.
Be playful, be incisive, be upfront. Just don't be mushy because whatever you say while being mushy will be attributed to the fact that you're generally mushy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just don't be mushy because whatever you say while being mushy will be attributed to the fact that you're generally mushy.
Ohhh true! Haha yeah thank you, that's actually very useful. So saying something like "you know, you would convince me much better if you appealed to my rational side rather than getting angry, which is in fact an emotional reaction...i.e. you are being irrational!"

Haha would the smugness be appreciated here?? Possibly not...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Katya00

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,227 Posts
Ohhh true! Haha yeah thank you, that's actually very useful. So saying something like "you know, you would convince me much better if you appealed to my rational side rather than getting angry, which is in fact an emotional reaction...i.e. you are being irrational!"

Haha would the smugness be appreciated here?? Possibly not...
smugness-no. Be cold, be incisive, be offhand...basically whatever he does to push your buttons..show that you can do it too.That should help you to deal with it and him to see how he treats you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
smugness-no. Be cold, be incisive, be offhand...basically whatever he does to push your buttons..show that you can do it too.That should help you to deal with it and him to see how he treats you.
That makes sense...might make my stomach turn at first but seems like a good strategy. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
Ohhh true! Haha yeah thank you, that's actually very useful. So saying something like "you know, you would convince me much better if you appealed to my rational side rather than getting angry, which is in fact an emotional reaction...i.e. you are being irrational!"

Haha would the smugness be appreciated here?? Possibly not...
hahaha I love it!!!

Seriously I can still be a dick (vagina?) at times. My bf is an ENFP. I love him to death. He pisses me off though, with his little ENFP-y quirks but he is who he is, and that is why I love him. I can't love him for who he's not. And I wouldn't change one eensy thing about him either.

I seriously hope your brother can learn to appreciate how much an ENFP can bring to a relationship. They are often my best female friends and by far have always been my best boyfriends. It took me a long time to appreciate NFs. My mom was as INFP so you can imagine what it was like for her to raise an NT DAUGHTER (and for me to be raised by her). We were constantly at each other's throats, didn't understand one another and basically resented those traits that actually make us amazing people. We became close when I was 18 (and finally out from under her thumb...freeeeedom!!!) and I started to look at her in a different light. And, this is weird but, it took me to make the first move, to close that gap and let her know how much I loved her. INFPs are super sensitive and I spent years pushing her away. We were best friends and she is honestly the only person I've ever truly trusted. (she passed away a few years back--of course I took it hard).

Anyway long story short (too late!)...it isn't right for him to make you feel insignificant or stupid because you are different. I hope you can look him in the eye and basically say "F off". He'll come around again. We always do. And I bet he'll have a nice dose of respect for you as well :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: r00bic0n
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top