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Let me just start out explaining that I do like ESFJs. There seems to be a lot in my life right now. I find them very stabilizing and loyal. And I am capable of loving ESFJs (I love my ESFJ roommate and my ESFJ step-mom and my ESFJs coworkers). They really seem to have sense of reality (which is nice for an ENFP such as myself). However the motivation behind this, is not bc of how much I love ESFJs...but bc they are pushing me over the edge.

ESFJs have this tone when speaking... sort of self righteous,,, "this is the way that this should be done, ideas will not be tolerated".... "I am right".... "I want to control your every move and then you have to admitt that I am supreme"... and so on. But I really hate being controlled (its apart of my Pness) and they don't seem to get that, or they do but they just don't care.

I don't like to be talked down to... and when I explain this to an ESFJs they act like they have no idea what they have done. I find this in all of the ESFJs I know. I don't get mad very often, but guess what? It is always at an ESFJ! And I hate being mad because I always feel horrible at the same time, I feel like a moral piece of poo when I lose my temper and I am very proud to say that I don't lose it very often,,, but guess what I apologize afterwards.....

this is where I vent....

But does an ESFJ ever apologize? ever? noooooooooooo! Why would they? they were right! this is infuriating. Are you dumb? Do you really have no idea that you behaved like a 12 year old manipulative princess brat? You need me to explain this to you? You have no idea that this negatively impacts other people? And maybe just maybe that this is why I flipped out at you??
 

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Well, I'm not that way, but I have seen many peopke do that. It can be frustrating, I understand. I know sometimes I can have a tone,but I know many people with different personalities that do similar things. I guess you just happen to have a lot of people in your life with this personality. Good luck!
 

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Here is my opinion. I could easily be wrong.

I've found that ESFJ's are just trying to be helpful in most situations. I think we (INFP\ENFPs) sometimes seem so scatter brained that they think we need that 'extra' help when in reality we really don't most of the time. Your step-mom, roommate, and co-workers probably don't know how you feel. And probably won't unless you actually say something. There not mind readers. Tell him nicely and even tell them how much you appreciate there 'helpful advice' but tell them it is not needed. They probably don't even know how much there tone of voice effects you.

I'm dating one ESFJ, and sometimes he comes off to much as a dad to me. 0_o. I've been pretty good at letting it slide off my back, or compliment him on how much he cares for me and how much I appreciate it, or make what he says into a sexual comeback.

Just on 4th of July a friend of my mom was telling her daughter about how she should take a shower after fireworks because smoke attaches to clothing. Later he was telling me about how much she is right, and reminding me that I should do it too. I told him I would only do it if he was in the shower with me. :wink:
 

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Hmmm ESFJ's ... yeah .. the first to hold your hair back whilst chucking over a toilet bowl AND the one to pick you up at the Police Station 3 am to take you home after posting bail. (special thanks to Amanda, Id pay the favour back but somehow I know I wont have to)
ESFJ's care.. and usually when I dont care I say things like 'go tell the Salvos, they care' .. now my new mantra will be go tell an ESFJ they'll give you loose change and let you borrow the car

*thoughtful gaze into the heavens*

..do you think its because (quoted) "ESFJs incorporate many of the traits that are associated with women in our society." *crazy belly laughing* sorry, just thinking about the women in our Western Cultural society (Paris / Angelina) :cool:
Haha I kid I kid .. love home wrecking whores really ..
 

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I don't like to be talked down to... and when I explain this to an ESFJs they act like they have no idea what they have done.

I don't enjoy being talked down too either, but have you considered your part you play in this .. It is easy to pass the buck

But I really hate being controlled (its apart of my Pness) and they don't seem to get that, or they do but they just don't care.

You are aware of MBTI, most people are not. What have you done to communicate this to them?

But does an ESFJ ever apologize? ever? noooooooooooo! Why would they? they were right! this is infuriating. Are you dumb? Do you really have no idea that you behaved like a 12 year old manipulative princess brat? You need me to explain this to you? You have no idea that this negatively impacts other people? And maybe just maybe that this is why I flipped out at you??

Why should i apologise if i am right as according to my perecption i am right, just as you are according to your perception you are right (this isn't rocket science). Dumb, no .. You have choices darling, if you choose to be around manipulative princess brats, then good for you. Don't play victim here, it's not an appealing trait. You seem rather negative and closed minded yourself. Heaven forbid you can for one second put yourself in someone elses shoes and show some compassion .. You don't know what battles they are fighting.
 

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ESFJ's usually motivate people that are close to them because they care. But there's no harm is standing up for yourself and saying no; which I find most of my ENFP friends aren't willing to do. I will flat out say what's on my mind, and if they disagree; then I back off.

There's a difference between telling you what to do and constructive criticism. Most people hate being told what to do; I do as well, but if I know it'll help me get to where I want to go faster, I will take it all in.

You have a choice to say no. No one controls you but yourself
 

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I have an esfj mother who drives me INSANE!

Constantly nagging me about pontless things, always complaining about something, very closeminded and judgemental etc. No-one in my family can stand her and constantly try to avoid her at all costs, you would think she would pick up that there's something wrong with her, but she is too blinded by pointing out everyone elses faults.

Ok, I've had my vent. How the heck do I work with you ESFJs? you're intense!
 

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Both ENFPs and ESFJs are classed as Obstinate types:

Characteristics of obstinate types:
- Ideas are 'sacred', but resources are freely shared and manipulated.
- Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' resources.
- Guard their interests from intrusions, and their reaction to such intrusions may be quite sharp.
- “I won't abandon my interests just because my resources are inadequate, but simply work towards improving my resources until they ARE adequate.”
As opposed to yielding types
- Resources are 'sacred', but ideas are freely shared and manipulated.
- Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' interests.
- Protect their resources to the point of conflict, and their reaction may be unduly strong.
- “If I know I can't do something, I won't and will forget all about it.”

Both ENFPs and ESFJs will protect their own interests/ideas/view points and react sharply if those are intruded upon. INFPs and INFJs on the other hand as classed as Yielding types and thus find it easier to get along with Obstinate types than two Obstinate types together. I will simply try to consider ESFJ's view point to be a valid interest/idea expressed towards me rather than feel the need to go on the defensive. I feel like that is their opinion and this is my opinion, and there is a boundary in between - it is not a threat to me.

I have an esfj mother who drives me INSANE!

Constantly nagging me about pontless things, always complaining about something, very closeminded and judgemental etc. No-one in my family can stand her and constantly try to avoid her at all costs, you would think she would pick up that there's something wrong with her, but she is too blinded by pointing out everyone elses faults.

Ok, I've had my vent. How the heck do I work with you ESFJs? you're intense!
Just listen to them :p
It is not pointless, it is just that due to your inferior sensory function you don't value what ESFJ may value. It is their view point so consider it, then accept or reject or meet half-way, and move on. I have a close ESFJ relative and this is what I do and it works well.
 

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I'm an INFP and I have an ESFJ mom -- I relate to you in so many ways here! It certainly got hard sometimes when I was at home, it seemed like we were coming from opposite sides of the Universe! I would always admit I was wrong, even if I wasn't, while she never would, so it seemed to give her the impression that she really was always right. While I don't really know the answer or solution to this, all I can say is I hope it works out, just stick through it! The best thing I can suggest is maybe to try and understand where she is coming from and after you do, explain to her you understand her point of view. Maybe she will feel more inclined to listen to you then. For ENFPs who like to create harmony, this should be right up your alley!

Again, best wishes on working it out!
 

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Nobody likes to be controlled, but I think if a judger like the ESFJ does not come to his or her senses that it is nothing near the end of the world if something does not go according to his or her way, then he or she is going to have a tough time living in this future.

Us SJs have a need to be in control of their situations and that is fine. Where their preservation and control is applied can be the difference between strong, loving relationships to destructive ones.
 

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I've got a crush on a girl at work. She's an ESFJ for sure, for a while I toss it up between ESTJ and ESFJ, but after a while I think she's and ESFJ. First i'd like to say that I am very attracted to how sociable you guys are. Its sexy :D The next part is when ESFJ always believe they are right! I don't get it! Its like practically deluding yourself. She couldn't turn the vacuum cleaner on "its broken!" she tells me so certain and so forcefully. I reply "did you turn it on?" in a teasing sort of way. To this she gets really upset "Of course I !!!!!" and thats when I flick the the power button on. Damn... doesn't that tell you something ESFJ's that you're not ALWAYS right? but then I guess if you accepted that you weren't always right you wouldn't be an ESFJ.

For now I'll just have to set her up and then knock her down, maybe she'll realize it one day. :p
 
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But does an ESFJ ever apologize? ever? noooooooooooo! Why would they? they were right! this is infuriating. Are you dumb? Do you really have no idea that you behaved like a 12 year old manipulative princess brat? You need me to explain this to you? You have no idea that this negatively impacts other people? And maybe just maybe that this is why I flipped out at you??
I apologize all the time. I admit when I'm wrong. I don't always think I'm right... Most of the time when I talk about something that I'm not 100% sure is correct I say, I think, I may be wrong... Why do people always generalize and decide since a handful of ESFJ's are this way that every last one of them is? Why do people put so much stock into the MBTI... It's a guide, not a definite, every single person of that type is a brat.
 

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I apologize all the time. I admit when I'm wrong. I don't always think I'm right... Most of the time when I talk about something that I'm not 100% sure is correct I say, I think, I may be wrong... Why do people always generalize and decide since a handful of ESFJ's are this way that every last one of them is? Why do people put so much stock into the MBTI... It's a guide, not a definite, every single person of that type is a brat.
Your right (no pun intended :crazy: ). Insisting that you're always right, though is more of a Te thing really, but Te people too are not to be bashed either. I wouldn't be so lazy and slow if it wasn't for my dad. Quite honestly, I can't help but stereotype too because it's a way of reminding me how one type is different from the other.

And it makes sense to admit your wrong or unsure because you show concern for keeping an un-conflicted atmosphere.

I love EVERY EXFJ I meet!
 

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My best friend is an esfj, and I am an enfp and she always stands up for me when she can see that I'm just going to let something happen. I really appreciate this. I find her really brave and inspiring.
 

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I just need a respectful tone when someone is talking to me. I think it is in poor class to nag, yell, or talk down to. God, I have no idea what to do with my mother. If I convey this to her, she will turn the drama around onto her. It's hopeless.
 

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This is the same kind of thing I hear about ISFP-INFJ relationships. And the same feeling for my type ENTP-ESTJ relations. It's like at first you get along, talk about different things, both of you are helpful and supportive. Then all of a sudden the belief and value systems are vastly different from each other and the only reason why you continue having such a relationship is based on a beneficial but fragile condition.
 

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Let me just start out explaining that I do like ESFJs. There seems to be a lot in my life right now. I find them very stabilizing and loyal. And I am capable of loving ESFJs (I love my ESFJ roommate and my ESFJ step-mom and my ESFJs coworkers). They really seem to have sense of reality (which is nice for an ENFP such as myself). However the motivation behind this, is not bc of how much I love ESFJs...but bc they are pushing me over the edge.

ESFJs have this tone when speaking... sort of self righteous,,, "this is the way that this should be done, ideas will not be tolerated".... "I am right".... "I want to control your every move and then you have to admitt that I am supreme"... and so on. But I really hate being controlled (its apart of my Pness) and they don't seem to get that, or they do but they just don't care.

I don't like to be talked down to... and when I explain this to an ESFJs they act like they have no idea what they have done. I find this in all of the ESFJs I know. I don't get mad very often, but guess what? It is always at an ESFJ! And I hate being mad because I always feel horrible at the same time, I feel like a moral piece of poo when I lose my temper and I am very proud to say that I don't lose it very often,,, but guess what I apologize afterwards.....

this is where I vent....

But does an ESFJ ever apologize? ever? noooooooooooo! Why would they? they were right! this is infuriating. Are you dumb? Do you really have no idea that you behaved like a 12 year old manipulative princess brat? You need me to explain this to you? You have no idea that this negatively impacts other people? And maybe just maybe that this is why I flipped out at you??
In the one person I know is an ESFJ, I found that some of those negatives you mentioned were the same. My ex bf is the ESFJ. It's crazy because he is one of the most loveable people around. I mean, people of all ages and backgrounds and nationalities seriously LOVE him from the instant they meet him. He's very fun, energetic, unassuming, friendly, loyal, etc etc... But "ideas are not welcome" seems to apply to his way of thinking when it came to his "morals." Morals for him included looking down on smoking cigarettes (as an example)... he couldn't explain WHY he thought it was bad, but he felt VERY strongly about how bad it was and how people that did it lost his respect. And he would be very condesending to those who did it and would try to force them to change by controlling them. He rarely apologized for what I thought were immature ways of treating people. Like I said, he was very likeable but every now and then he would SNAP at people he was closest to for NO REASON and never found the need to apologize and didn't think he was wrong... It never worked for me to reason with him on any of this. In some ways I felt he was emotionally immature (although ironically positive emotions like love and family-building and helpfulness were his expertises).

I don't really understand it to be honest. Maybe he gets fed up with people expecting so much out of him (he is very responsible and many people rely on him) and takes it out on people he knows won't leave him...

Anyways, I am in no way trash talking ESFJs. ESFJs are great. He is a wonderful person and generally makes life a lot better for everyone who knows him. Very unique person. I have never met anyone in my life who is more universally liked than him. I could go on about the good things, but that would just be weird of me.... Just thought the things OP mentioned were similar. I am only just now discovering things about the type ESFJ :)
 

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Both ENFPs and ESFJs are classed as Obstinate types:

Characteristics of obstinate types:
.....
- Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' resources.
- Guard their interests from intrusions, and their reaction to such intrusions may be quite sharp.
Wow! Definitely hit the head on the nail for us ENFPs and the ESFJ(s) I know...

As opposed to yielding types
....
- Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' interests.
I wish I could be less sensitive when someone disagrees with my values.... And be more easygoing as it sounds like the yielding types are!!


- “If I know I can't do something, I won't and will forget all about it.”
Yeah, definitely doesn't seem to be typical of ENFP or ESFJs... I find if I can't do something, I will brood about it, beat myself up, get upset... but I never forget about it. It always seems to come back until I have the opportunity to CHOOSE whether I can do something or not. I don't like not being able to do things!!!! To a certain degree of course.


Both ENFPs and ESFJs will protect their own interests/ideas/view points and react sharply if those are intruded upon. INFPs and INFJs on the other hand as classed as Yielding types and thus find it easier to get along with Obstinate types than two Obstinate types together. I will simply try to consider ESFJ's view point to be a valid interest/idea expressed towards me rather than feel the need to go on the defensive. I feel like that is their opinion and this is my opinion, and there is a boundary in between - it is not a threat to me.
I need to work on this. Why is it not a threat to you when opinions clash with yours, especially someone who is close to you??
 

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Let me just start out explaining that I do like ESFJs. There seems to be a lot in my life right now. I find them very stabilizing and loyal. And I am capable of loving ESFJs (I love my ESFJ roommate and my ESFJ step-mom and my ESFJs coworkers). They really seem to have sense of reality (which is nice for an ENFP such as myself). However the motivation behind this, is not bc of how much I love ESFJs...but bc they are pushing me over the edge.

ESFJs have this tone when speaking... sort of self righteous,,, "this is the way that this should be done, ideas will not be tolerated".... "I am right".... "I want to control your every move and then you have to admitt that I am supreme"... and so on. But I really hate being controlled (its apart of my Pness) and they don't seem to get that, or they do but they just don't care.

I don't like to be talked down to... and when I explain this to an ESFJs they act like they have no idea what they have done. I find this in all of the ESFJs I know. I don't get mad very often, but guess what? It is always at an ESFJ! And I hate being mad because I always feel horrible at the same time, I feel like a moral piece of poo when I lose my temper and I am very proud to say that I don't lose it very often,,, but guess what I apologize afterwards.....

this is where I vent....

But does an ESFJ ever apologize? ever? noooooooooooo! Why would they? they were right! this is infuriating. Are you dumb? Do you really have no idea that you behaved like a 12 year old manipulative princess brat? You need me to explain this to you? You have no idea that this negatively impacts other people? And maybe just maybe that this is why I flipped out at you??

omg i just laughed so hard
 

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Er.. The ESFJ you know seems to be kind of mean... if it means anything, I'll always appologise even when I'm convinced I'm right because there's always a chance I'm wrong and I don't want to be too insistent.
 
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