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Discussion Starter #1
This is gonna be like a little novel, sorry...


Soooo I have known this guy for about 4 months, and I am kind of in a quandary as to how to approach a difficult conversation with him...any input would be lovely.


He just finished med school, and is moving hundreds of miles away for his residency. We are having THE MOST AMAZING sex of my entire life, and trust me, I know amazing when I see it. We also seem really compatible even though we have really only seen each other in fun, no pressure situations so of course there could be sides that I can't know about without more time. But I don't have more time. He is moving next month, and I REALLY want to bring up the idea of me going there with him.


I'm totally self sufficient, have a career that could easily get me a job pretty much anywhere, so I'm no crazy b asking him to support me. And to me, who thrives on new things, and who honestly doesn't see picking up and moving on a whim as crazy at all (until I look at it through someone else's perspective), this seems like a great, fun idea. I just honestly don't want this guy to think I'm a cray psycho by bringing it up because it's been really casual, knowing it would be over in 4 months.


We saw each other for almost 2 months straight, and he broke it up b/c he said he was getting emotionally attached to me and he didn't want to deal with a messy breakup right as he was moving and starting this big stressful new part of his career (HOW RESPONSIBLE!). Also I realized he had assumed exclusivity when we had never discussed it and I had a oneoff during that time and felt totally bad for it once I realized he thought we were "exclusive". So of course I told him and said sorry sorry sorry and I never would have done it if I'd known he thought we were exclusive, and he said it really bothered him, and that's when I think he realized just how much he liked me. I offered to go exclusive but he said he needed some time and that he really liked me and wanted to be friends with me. (BTW first time I have EVER been dumped, I took it REALLY hard.)


Skip forward a month of being SUPER SAD, then we started texting like friends, and then I couldn't stand it anymore and told him how much I wanted to bang him, and he said he wanted it too but that he didn't want me to be sad again and he didn't know if that was a good idea. I of course convinced him I could handle it, we hooked up and BAM it was like we never stopped, then the next day he booty called me and afterwards he got really emo (which I had NOT seen from him, ever) and said it was too hard for him and we should just be friends. He said we should have dinner later in the week, and I'll just say when he came to pick me up, we never got out for dinner. We've been very careful to keep it in the FWB territory since, and oh god have we had so much fun together.


He loves to cook for me, is a very attentive and adaptive lover who likes to please, Alpha but not cocky and very confident, I know he will spend hours playing video games when I'm not there, but also happy, loves to go out, be social, drink a lot with friends, starts up conversations with random strangers, seems to have an emotional side but keeps it well managed, is spontaneous and able to go with the flow and make up plans on the fly, is a TOTAL spaz and goof and ADD and lives like a complete slob, but is also really responsible and career driven (he's a Dr. now!) and studied philosophy and chem in college, has great taste in some things (food) but at the same time unabashedly loves crappy music & movies, funny shows are his fave, is a nerd and loves geeky scifi and fantasy, and is WICKED smart and retains tons of information that he can explain in extreme detail, esp. science or political stuff (gah I wish I could do that, it always comes out vague from me). He is very observant and notices little behavioural ticks of mine and later comments on them when I'm marveling at how well he read me, but also will sometimes totally blank on me when he is focusing on something else and literally will not hear me talking. Then he apologises genuinely and gives me attention (and I don't have to be needy at all to feel seen). He doesn't lavish complements on me, but will say I look nice and once said "I looked pretty cute" and when I joked that this was not what I was used to hearing, said it was a lot coming from him. He is a really great guy. He asked me if I wanted a hug after he broke up with me (I was crying) and he let me hug him as long as I wanted.


I would love some advice or suggestions on types so I can try to understand him a little better because he really has a mysterious side to me as far as how he actually feels about things. He definitely isn't an emotional sharer like me and I've been holding back on that for my part because I am afraid of him thinking I'm crazy because I REALLY want him to like and respect me. I asked him, if things were different and he wasn't moving away would he date me, and he said yes, he would, I am pretty amazing and he really likes me. I've even made a few "jokes" about moving there to be his gf, and it's like he totally doesn't bite on purpose. It's like he hasn't even entertained the idea of me coming with him when to me it sounds like such an easy solution. Maybe he just wants a fresh start?
 

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I've even made a few "jokes" about moving there to be his gf, and it's like he totally doesn't bite on purpose.
I do that. If someone wants something from me, I expect them to ask me straight-forward.

There's not really all that much description about the guy, it's more about your relationship but there's somethings I can relate to. Sounds like a possible ESTP yet somehow more emotional.

Also, were you eager to get this out 'cause it felt like reading a text by the Duracell bunny.
 

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Probabaly more of an ESFP, my brother is one and I am ESTP. We both have banged a lot of women. With that being said ST's tend to not get along with NFs so good luck.
 
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He just finished med school, and is moving hundreds of miles away for his residency. We are having THE MOST AMAZING sex of my entire life, and trust me, I know amazing when I see it.

We saw each other for almost 2 months straight, and he broke it up b/c he said he was getting emotionally attached to me and he didn't want to deal with a messy breakup right as he was moving and starting this big stressful new part of his career (HOW RESPONSIBLE!). Also I realized he had assumed exclusivity when we had never discussed it and I had a one off during that time and felt totally bad for it once I realized he thought we were "exclusive". So of course I told him and said sorry sorry sorry and I never would have done it if I'd known he thought we were exclusive, and he said it really bothered him, and that's when I think he realized just how much he liked me. I offered to go exclusive but he said he needed some time and that he really liked me and wanted to be friends with me. (BTW first time I have EVER been dumped, I took it REALLY hard.)

He is a really great guy. He asked me if I wanted a hug after he broke up with me (I was crying) and he let me hug him as long as I wanted.

I would love some advice or suggestions on types so I can try to understand him a little better because he really has a mysterious side to me as far as how he actually feels about things. He definitely isn't an emotional sharer like me and I've been holding back on that for my part because I am afraid of him thinking I'm crazy because I REALLY want him to like and respect me. I asked him, if things were different and he wasn't moving away would he date me, and he said yes, he would, I am pretty amazing and he really likes me. I've even made a few "jokes" about moving there to be his gf, and it's like he totally doesn't bite on purpose. It's like he hasn't even entertained the idea of me coming with him when to me it sounds like such an easy solution. Maybe he just wants a fresh start?
Is this going to be another ENFP thing where an ESTP tells you the truth and you get all hacked off and personally feel the need to bite someone's head off? If so, quit reading right now.

The only thing you may have in your life that may compare to a medical school student going to residency is leaving for college in a place far from home. If so, multiply that by 100 in terms of emotional difficulty.

Your BF does sound like a good guy and is being responsible. He is smart enough to know what he doesn't know or how he is gong to feel. He will be emotionally and physically abused. He certainly doesn't know how he is going to react to that abuse or how he will react towards someone he is in a relationship with. Are you going to make his life easier and better or more stressful and worse? After he has done a 36 hour shift, are you going to be all dolled up and say, "Hey, you are off, let's go out!!" when he wants to sleep for 12 hours straight?

And then when he does have some free time and can moonlight (work outside of the residency after his first year) and make some real money, are you going to want to have fun or are you going to realize he has a mountain of debt that needs to be paid off?

And how is he going to feel about your possibly being so bored and lonely that you feel the need to "one off" again? Your banging someone else while being with him tells me that you aren't that serious about him. And the first thing you did when talking about him is talk about how great sex was, imply that you have had a lot of sex already, and that moving with him would be "fun".

I am not going to say that there wasn't fun to be had, or it was all bad, but it was tough, really tough. The best and closest friends I have every made were made in medical school, and after a rough few months, we had some great parties. There are residents I know who are among the best people I have ever met in my life whom I would trust with anything,and I met some real bastards.

When you add up the years in medical school and pre-med in college, your BF has given eight years of your life preparing for residency. Have you ever prepared for something in your life for EIGHT years?

Let me give you an example of what your BF is in for. There was one time in residency I put in a central line (like an IV), and I pulled out the old one. I had done it dozens of times before as had all residents. After pulling the line, the patient died right in front of my eyes.

There is a visceral reaction to having someone die after you have done something to think "You shouldn't have done that", and I got that reaction from the patient's family, the chief residents, and even some of the attending staff. An autopsy was done showing I did nothing wrong, but there was still a circling of the sharks trying to push this unexpected death all on me.

Finally, I heard the program director weigh in after someone was complaining to him about me. He said, "Look, you put in a new line and take the old one out. That is what you do. Enough already."

Still, a doctor who was being sued on something completely frivolous told me that when you are sued and even know you are innocent, there is a small part of you that feels guilty. Despite my strong Se and Ti, there was a piece of me filled not with guilt but doubt, "Did I miss something? Did I do something wrong?" Fortunately for me, I turned inward, was depressed for a day or so, and got over it.

Doctors are typically Ts and often have weak Fs. Some doctors who are emotionally overwhelmed become violent, arrogant, aloof, or socially withdraw to compensate. Some turn to drugs. An anesthesia resident I worked with, one of the greatest guys I have met, died his last year of residency due to a fentanyl (like heroin) overdose. He had a wife and two kids.

So in summary, I wouldn't take you either because I wouldn't want to be responsible for dragging you hundreds of miles away from your home unless I was at least 90+% sure you would end up being my wife. I didn't know how I was going to fare let alone me and a girlfriend.

If you want to understand residency and how trying it can be, read the book "House of God" by Samuel Shem. It is one of the best and funniest novels I have ever read, but it describes in vivid detail the inhumanity and absurdity of medical training.
 

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Let me get an emo here and share with you a story about a girl I was talking to. I talked to her for a little over two months. I thought she was a great girl. Three years older than me and we just clicked. However, I did tell her I wanted to take it slow and see what happens. As time went on, we hung out a little bit more and had blocks of 5 hour conversations wherever we were stemming into the early morning. I shared with her things that I didn't tell a lot of other people. I felt close to her. I was straightforward about that part and told her. She said she felt the same way. However, further down the line, she displayed some behaviors that were a little skeptical to me. I won't mention what they were, but she apologized to me about it later on the next day.

I thought to myself that yes, we're not officially dating, and we haven't talked about being exclusive, but she was the only one I was after. And by what she had told me, I was the only one on her mind. Well, a good ol' facebook thing happened by accident on my part involving zoosk. My computer was out of commission due to the power chord being done for. So I used my touch phone to use facebook. With the loading of pages, sometimes you click on things you don't mean to click on and they show up on your wall. She confronted me about it And I called her on the phone to talk about it. Thought we were good.

Well, long story short, other things had happened in-between and our fling was on the rocks. Finally she told me that she wasn't looking for a relationship and that she's not ready. She had to work on things and get herself together. I was 50/50 on it. Was she lying about getting her things together or was she going to go after another guy? I let it go. Didn't say much and tried to enjoy my time with friends. I thought we ended on a decent note. If something down the road happened, we could give it another shot. But I was very iffy. Her actions in the past made me tread lightly and to try and get less emotionally invested.

Well, just last night, I was with my friend at a downtown restaurant. I didn't realize it, but I had sat with my back against hers. She was with another dude. This was two nights after she had said all that. And not much longer after I came in, she and the dude left. I could tell by her body language she had saw me. She didn't look around, just stared at the floor. She had guilt and shame written all over her. I had thought I was done with her before, but this sealed the deal.

But the point of this story is that with things she had done in the past, I was very skeptical. It was a clash between my feelings and my mind. It was confusion. And while I do enjoy the moment and try not to worry about what might happened, sometimes you can't ignore that gut feeling. I think he's experiencing that with you. He's unsure. He might tell you his feelings for you, but he he still iffy on extrapolating on that with moving in. I don't think he trusts you. Who knows, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Elvis, thank you so much for all that. I have never dedicated 8 years of my life to something, and no, I don't think my brain understands what that takes. Which made me realize that I am VERY ill-equipped to try to understand where he is coming from and the logic & mindset he is employing to deal with what he will be facing. So again, thanks for trying to help me understand a little better.

It helped put it into perspective for me. If a dude tells me how much he likes me, and how great a person I am, and how he will be sad & miss me, and yet never brings up the remotest possibility of trying to keep me in his life and acts like it's to be taken for granted that I will stay behind and find someone else - well, it just didn't add up to me. Now I'm starting to see that it's not, actually, "worth it" to him on the cold hard scale of logic and truth. And that doesn't make him a bad guy either, if anything, the opposite.

This ENFP is fascinated with people who can stick with something for this long and while baffled at the career choice (after all of his woeful speculations about what his future as a Dr. will look like!), I'm still awfully impressed. Kind of like those INTJs with their goddamn organization systems. It's like magic. Very helpful & practical magic.

Also, I didn't know I was so into him when I had the "one-off", it was about 2 weeks after I met him and we hadn't spoken about exclusivity at all. I'm starting to become more aware that (gasp) not everyone sees things the way I do, and a lot of people don't even understand the concept of casual non exclusive dating, even though that's how starting any dating relationship off seems to make the most sense to me. I will never again assume that the other person showed up to the party with their emotional armor on. I really hate hurting people. I definitely learned a communication lesson there.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I think it's funny that you ESTPs are calling him emotional or F from my description :D To me, that's his least developed anything...at least in how he shares it. He recognizes my emotions and isn't dismissive of them, but doesn't choose to respond or give any power to his.

Not that this is inferior in any way, I mean, look what this allows you to achieve.
 

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Derosa, I'm sorry about that, it sounds like she was leading you on and still wanting to play the field. I would encourage you to listen to that gut feeling, I know it's not everyone's style but it's helped me out a lot :)

You guys seem big on assessing all the facts and weighing all the pros & cons before you make your decisions, and from someone who is always trying to see all the perspectives, that makes a lot of sense.

Thank you all for your input!!
 
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I'm starting to become more aware that (gasp) not everyone sees things the way I do, and a lot of people don't even understand the concept of casual non exclusive dating, even though that's how starting any dating relationship off seems to make the most sense to me.
A few years ago, I was listening to Ryan Seacrest swear emphatically that if a guy says he is not exclusive that means he is not exclusive. What is funny is that he didn't say it about women. It is assumed, wrongly as you have shown, to do so. It would have bugged me a lot in my 20s if a girl was sleeping with someone else while being with me. Now I think people just focus too much on the importance and meaning of sex.

It helped put it into perspective for me. If a dude tells me how much he likes me, and how great a person I am, and how he will be sad & miss me, and yet never brings up the remotest possibility of trying to keep me in his life and acts like it's to be taken for granted that I will stay behind and find someone else - well, it just didn't add up to me. Now I'm starting to see that it's not, actually, "worth it" to him on the cold hard scale of logic and truth.
OK, this is the classic endearing but often troublesome ENFP trait of not wanting to give up on anyone. To be honest, Aqua, I thought you might be somewhat shallow and naive given your first post, but this one shows me you are a great gal, why this ESTP has been so attracted to you, and why it bugs you that you two have to split up.

So let me just throw this out there. There are going to be all kind of women interested in him especially later in his training period right before he goes out and makes real money. There will be secretaries, nurses ETC trying to set your BF up with their friends and family because of his prospects. However, they aren't going to be doing so early on.

He is going to feel lonely, scared, and vulnerable early. This is where the ENFP's incredible ability to support is going to come in. With cheap long distance and video skype, you all can still have everything but a physical relationship. Even then he is going to get probably two weeks vacation and a few three day weekends his first year where you all can see each other. Maybe he will see what things are like and change his mind about you being with him. Unlike the other people throwing themselves at him for his future earnings, you knew him when he didn't have much. You liked him for him.

I am not trying to make this ESTP into the ultimate prize. Clearly, you have other options, and chances are that he will dive into his new life and you two will grow apart, but there is a chance, a small one, that you will become closer. I am not sure this is in the ENFPs big hearted nature but just make sure that you don't put too much of your heart on the line for him.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I am aware that high earners are hotly pursued and that he will be able to have his pick, so to speak. Unfortunately locking him down now isn't an option :p I am proud of the fact that I can support myself. I can bring in a 6 figure salary, and while that's not doctor money, hopefully it would help him or others like him from thinking that's why I was "after him". Having a great personality myself, I'm very much drawn to others with large, well developed and complex personalities. That's the main draw for me before income, also proceeded by sexual compatibility. I have an extremely high sex drive and specific proclivities, so when I meet someone who can meet my needs that way, it really does factor into the total package in a big way. I think it's a pretty important thing, but hearing your thoughts on the matter make me wonder how much less our compatibility in that way factors into his total analysis of my net worth :)

I told him when he first broke it off, that I wanted to be a part of his life in whatever way fit. It's still true, and I plan to do my best to support him as a friend as he moves etc. and online. It's hard though because I feel like I don't have the right to care about him, even though I do care a lot. I like him so much. I've shed a lot of tears over the unfortunate situation. I don't want to be a burden to him with expectations that he feels he can't possibly meet. I guess I'll just keep letting him know that I care, that I'm there, and try to maintain a communication channel, as limited as it might be. He's there getting a place, and I already feel a big hole in my heart over it. Remember that emotional armor I was talking about? It serves me well until someone happens to get under it, then all bets are off :/

Thank you for your kind words and suggestions :)
 
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I am an ENFJ/ENFP AND I could never ever date an ESTP,we are like the bestest friends in and we make a great entertainmet duo, we entertain the masses. My relationship with with ESTP'S have always been brother and sister type.
 
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I told him when he first broke it off, that I wanted to be a part of his life in whatever way fit. It's still true, and I plan to do my best to support him as a friend as he moves etc. and online. It's hard though because I feel like I don't have the right to care about him, even though I do care a lot. I like him so much. I've shed a lot of tears over the unfortunate situation. I don't want to be a burden to him with expectations that he feels he can't possibly meet. I guess I'll just keep letting him know that I care, that I'm there, and try to maintain a communication channel, as limited as it might be. He's there getting a place, and I already feel a big hole in my heart over it. Remember that emotional armor I was talking about? It serves me well until someone happens to get under it, then all bets are off :/

Thank you for your kind words and suggestions :)
UGH! I also have an ESTP stringing me along like this... as an ENFJ, I don't understand why it has to be so complicated. I'm crazy for him, he seems to be totally into me.. why can't we just love each other already?! At present, I am just trying not to scare him away by being overly emotional... and accepting his near daily friendly invitations where he seems to be testing me out before making any life altering decisions...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
After spending a bit more time with him and doing a LOT of research/analysis, I think he is actually an ENTP. I have read all of the ESTP vs ENTP threads and while there are a lot of similarities, the differences are becoming clearer. I don't know that this really affects the thought process/logic/approach he is using in this situation though...
 

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Of course, I am going off things like him spazzing that he can't wait to see Moonrise Kingdom because he loves Wes Anderson movies and that I realized he has put his shirt on inside out and left the house more times than I can count :D The latter seems like just a P thing (along with that thing that keeps happening where we wander in the parking lot for 10 minutes looking for his car), but from the self descriptions and attitudes of ESTPs these things don't add up. I am a P but I am VERY aware of my appearance. I would never have BBQ sauce on my face! Another thing that stood out was his need for solo recharge time in the same way that I do, even though he loves interacting with people so much.

He told me that he values how empathetic I am, and I feel like we clearly have the "N connection" in our communication patterns, specifically the ability to bounce around a non linear train of thought - he doesn't look at me strangely when I tie in a reference from 5 minutes ago to the conversation that's gone somewhere completely different. I guess that's the double Ne?

We really are quite similar, and he told his friend in front of me that he thought we were a lot alike. As similar as we are though, I feel the loss of the F very strongly, which keeps me from feeling like we truly "get" each other, the way other ENFPs and I do. I actually find the Ti-Fi difference very interesting, maybe because I'm pretty logical and grounded for an ENFP :p

I feel like I'm talking out of my ass here. I have studied MBTI so much but still only feel like I'm scratching the surface.
 

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@simplesusan Got it :) For the record, I asked him if he was an ENTP and he said yes :p so I guess I could have just done that from the beginning. At least I figured it out for myself!
 
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