[The Great One]

It seems as though ENFP and ENTP types are both analytical. However, it seems as though they are analytical in different ways. So in what ways are their styles of analysis similar and in which ways are they different?

 

[Tainted Streetlight]

ENFP's are typically wrong. Hahaha no, but because of the Ti in an ENTP, the ENTP will sort through many unrealistic options pretty quickly making us very fast on our toes. However, all too often, the ENFP's Fi will attach to an idea that it may fancy. So you do not see the rapid sorting, and if you ever hear an ENFP say something that seems unwarranted in making conclusions, this is why. Also is part of why ENFP's aren't as good at math as ENTPs.

Source: ENTP myself, and two ENFP best friends.

 

[The Great One]

ENFP's are typically wrong. Hahaha no, but because of the Ti in an ENTP, the ENTP will sort through many unrealistic options pretty quickly making us very fast on our toes. However, all too often, the ENFP's Fi will attach to an idea that it may fancy. So you do not see the rapid sorting, and if you ever hear an ENFP say something that seems unwarranted in making conclusions, this is why. Also is part of why ENFP's aren't as good at math as ENTPs.

Source: ENTP myself, and two ENFP best friends.

Can you describe this rapid sorting in more detail.

 

[Tainted Streetlight]

Can you describe this rapid sorting in more detail.

Ever know what someone is going to say long before they finish saying it? And I mean not just easy little words, but whole ideas of sentences because it's just naturally what follows? This happens to me quite frequently. ENFPs can be very similar as they have a similar process, but they have a higher chance of being off in what they think will be said. As a result, my ENFP friends frequently try to finish my sentences and I have to finish them in the right way. Which can be kind of annoying.

 

[MuChApArAdOx]

@The Great One, you may want to get the right perspective of Ti though people who don't use stereotypes, or from someone who is well educated, like @LiquidLight. He will explain to you how Fi-Ti work. They are actually similar functions in the sense of determined, stubborn, both are subjective. If you're really trying to figure this out, its important you get the best quality information from people who are well informed objectively.

 

[reletative]

ENFP's are typically wrong. Hahaha no, but because of the Ti in an ENTP, the ENTP will sort through many unrealistic options pretty quickly making us very fast on our toes. However, all too often, the ENFP's Fi will attach to an idea that it may fancy. So you do not see the rapid sorting, and if you ever hear an ENFP say something that seems unwarranted in making conclusions, this is why. Also is part of why ENFP's aren't as good at math as ENTPs.

Source: ENTP myself, and two ENFP best friends.

EDIT: I re-read your post and now I'm going to say, I DEFINITELY don't think that's true. And i'm stopping now before I say something overly dickish.

Ti and Fi are both introverted functions, so both would do a rapid inward sorting. Actually speed of calculation is more determined by the individual.

But anyways some of my observations:

Fi is more likely to accept a small flaw so long as the big picture works

Ti will use a tested model of logic to sort Ne's intake

Fi will use an internal model of worth and truth to sort Ne's intake

Fi is more likely to take a risk (Fi-users may disagree if they like, but i think it's safe to say it's true)

Ti weakness is to throw out the baby with the bathwater, i.e. throw out an argument because of one inconsistency

Fi weakness might be to accept a small inconsistency because the big picture appears to work (you could see how this could work against the Fi user, just as the other way around could)

Fi puts less restraint on Ne

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

Fi weakness might be to accept a small inconsistency because the big picture appears to work (you could see how this could work against the Fi user, just as the other way around could)

Well, and I think this would fundamentally be the case, due to the fact that Fi isn't a technically focused function to begin with - if the Fi user likes the outcome, in spite of the technical problems, they'll probably just go with it and feel comfortable just establishing the big picture without really wanting to get into the technical side of it (after all, Fi types are also Te users, so this will allow them to go with more surface-level technical value, as long as it can come to the conclusion in a logical fashion). The Ti types would probably be the ones who make the biggest fuss about the underlying technical implications of this. (all extroverted functions focus on the surface value of their respective specialties, and it's linear progression, while all introverted functions focus on the underlying, inherent value of their respective specialties, and it's universal implications).

 

[marzipan01]

I got the impression that ENFP's prefer arguments by authority, tradition, and generally sort information based on their personal value systems. Whereas ENTP's sort information based on what seems like sound reasoning, likely and possible scenarios, explanations, circumstances etc.

Fi strikes me as a function that has an opinion about what it likes and dislikes. So, I imagine ENFP's are probably more opinionated about what they like and dislike and ENTP's are more opinionated about what is true and untrue. For instance, I'm personally frustrated when an idea strikes me as completely nonsensical.

Also, I get this feeling like ENFPs are vague but I think it's just because I don't understand the Fi reasons and assumptions that are happening behind the scenes of their statements.

So, I get the impression that ENFP's are analyzing and measuring the world in terms of their emotional values so something like: would I like that? Would I look good in that? Would so-and-so like that? That wasn't very nice. I like that. I hate that. I'm happy. I'm sad. I want to be like this...I want others to perceive me like that...This is fun...this is not fun...this is enjoyable...this is not enjoyable...

I see all this as happening in an ENFP but not concretely in words perse but more in the actually feelings of it. From what I make of Fi it's not something that can be expressed in words as easily as other functions. It's more of an emotion or feeling.

Whereas the ENTP is evaluating things more based on understanding how things work, what is happening, and generally analyzing from their individual perspective. If x, then y. For me, Ti works rapidly and is difficult to express, too. It's just a feeling like I turn left now because my Ti instantly sorted all the information that my brain has about possible routes, the time of day, traffic, etc. and turning left now is the most reasonable way to arrive at my destination.

Then a feeler in the car always says, "Why are you going this way? You should turn right here."

I find it very annoying that I should have to explain myself.

 

[saffron]

It depends on the ENFP and the ENTP.

But there are a ridiculous amount of stereotypes on this thread and only a few real insights. In real life, it's often hard to identify between the two types, so it comes down to a careful reading of what information they tend to gravitate towards in general. And @Khys hit some of the strengths/weaknesses of Fi/Ti on the nail.

 

[Erbse]

If you know how Fi and Ti are different, you got your answer already.

Oh, and bear in mind that in both cases the judging function is only at best the auxiliary function, thus by far less potent (overall, unless well-developed) than the dominant alternative.

 

[Agelaius]

@Khys and @marzipan01 both described the differences in how Fi and Ti work reasonably well. Both functions are subjective, after all, and the end result of a given situation may often come out the same, though the reasoning and "path" to coming to a conclusion could be drastically different. At least for myself, I find myself often asking "Why not?" instead of "Why?", though for Ti users I could see it being the other way around. Please correct me if that generalization is completely off-base.

I do find Fi difficult to explain with objective terms, however, as a lot of the reasoning on how I come to various conclusions is reliant on "gut feeling" or other rather personal and subjective thoughts. Not always, though, as I do need to be very objective in an engineering environment (finishing off a degree in computer engineering), so I can explain things very clearly in those instances. As for explaining why I wanted to turn right instead of left? 'Cause I felt like it :tongue: And because that's where Ben & Jerry's is. Who doesn't like ice cream?

 

[Functianalyst]

Both types dominate with identical function-attitudes (Ne). So any comparison or insinuation that ENTPs are more analytic than ENFPs will be based strictly from a MBTI or temperament standpoint. ENFPs and NF types in general are not analytic in the true sense. But if you consider type based on Jungian analysis, there is no auxiliary-tertiary as described here. Based on maturity (30-45) the ENFP type may appear far more analytic than the ENTP. When comparing the two, Ti is distinguished from Te this way by Jung:

This thinking may be conceived either with concrete or with abstract factors, but always at the decisive points it is orientated by subjective data. Hence, it does not lead from concrete experience back again into objective things, but always to the subjective content, External facts are not the aim and origin of this thinking, although the introvert would often like to make it so appear. It begins in the subject, and returns to the subject, although it may [p. 481] undertake the widest flights into the territory of the real and the actual. Hence, in the statement of new facts, its chief value is indirect, because new views rather than the perception of new facts are its main concern.

So a comparison strictly using MBTI may indicate ENTP to be more analytic, but based on Jungian standards the ENFP type with a developed or differentiated use of Te will be far more analytical when using Ne-Te-Fi-Si than an ENTP using Ne-Ti-Fe-Si or more obvious if the ENTP type develops their Fe enough to suppress their Ti.

 

[marzipan01]

[MENTION=16520] Both functions are subjective, after all, and the end result of a given situation may often come out the same, though the reasoning and "path" to coming to a conclusion could be drastically different.

Agreed.

At least for myself, I find myself often asking "Why not?" instead of "Why?", though for Ti users I could see it being the other way around. Please correct me if that generalization is completely off-base.

At first I was going to correct you but then I wondered "why?" did he say that? Now, I think you might be right about that. lmao.
I thought "why not?" was a type 7 thing but perhaps that was only because a type 7 ENFP said it was. Interesting.

I do find Fi difficult to explain with objective terms, however, as a lot of the reasoning on how I come to various conclusions is reliant on "gut feeling" or other rather personal and subjective thoughts.

I feel like, because all the data my Ti is sorting, thoughts become feelings like hunches or just feeling like something is confusing or there is some piece of information I'm lacking or that I'm right about this. I think the difference is that Fi sorts emotional data and the hunches are associated with what would bring pleasure, happiness, maximum enjoyment, what would bring about events that are consistent with value systems (friend will be happy, achieve goals, etc.) based on emotional data streams. Whereas Ti sorts factual data to achieve, possibly the same goals. The crux is that Ti user, without a cultivation of Fe, is less in touch with the emotional data stream and more likely to take in the fact data before emotional data can be processed.

I need to explain and probe logically. When my logic is committing fallacies such as "Women are the bane of existence to humanity" it signals to me that I need to burrow deeper as it signifies that I have an emotion that is unresolved and leading my thinking process to be influenced by an emotion--as in, with the case above, I'm probably upset that a group of girls sabotaged me, then I wonder why that makes me upset and discover that something that I lost meant something to me on a personal level.

Point is, even ENTP's have Fi, we just don't have direct access to it at all times. It's buried deeply on an unconscious level and we have to search through the swamp to get there.

Fe is a more accessible function for me. Fi is very unconscious and requires a lot of probing. Fe is pretty accessible all the time, it's just draining and annoying to use all the time.

Not always, though, as I do need to be very objective in an engineering environment (finishing off a degree in computer engineering), so I can explain things very clearly in those instances. As for explaining why I wanted to turn right instead of left? 'Cause I felt like it :tongue: And because that's where Ben & Jerry's is. Who doesn't like ice cream?

I've heard that ENFP's have Ti as well, and just as it is with ENTPs cultivating Fi, ENFP's can cultivate Ti when the situation requires. But I think it's more likely that in an engineering environment you're using Te which cues you into efficiency and how things work. The difference between Te and Ti is that Te is about function on a mass scale, information you can rely on and prove with flow charts, information that is socially accepted. On the other hand, Ti is subjective fact interpretation which may or may not blend in socially accepted systems of thought.

Te likes arguments by authority.
Ti likes arguments that make sense.

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

I don't think "Why not?" is a feeler thing, specifically, unless there is some feeling motivation behind it that comes from rationalizing and thus trusting their feelings (e.g. people who have a great belief in trusting feelings of optimism, for instance - I've read that Jung described feeling reasoning as something highly faith-based in nature relative to thinking (and obviously, I don't mean faith-based as in religious for anyone who's quick to take offense to language)). I think this is way more of an dominant intuitive mentality in the face of possibilities and probabilities (I can definitely relate to this approach), so since the person that said this is an ENFP, then that person is probably referring to trusting intuitive hunches. ENFPs definitely tend to be among the most optimistic types I come across, probably due to the the combination of dominant intuition and auxiliary feeling to back it up in reinforcing, ego syntonic ways (tertiary thinking would also come in handy in giving the type confidence here). After all, this mentality totally runs counter to the epirically-rooted S mentalities, since it lacks direct evidence, at least in the context that @Agelaius put it.

 

[JungyesMBTIno]

Agreed.



At first I was going to correct you but then I wondered "why?" did he say that? Now, I think you might be right about that. lmao.
I thought "why not?" was a type 7 thing but perhaps that was only because a type 7 ENFP said it was. Interesting.




I feel like, because all the data my Ti is sorting, thoughts become feelings like hunches or just feeling like something is confusing or there is some piece of information I'm lacking or that I'm right about this. I think the difference is that Fi sorts emotional data and the hunches are associated with what would bring pleasure, happiness, maximum enjoyment, what would bring about events that are consistent with value systems (friend will be happy, achieve goals, etc.) based on emotional data streams. Whereas Ti sorts factual data to achieve, possibly the same goals. The crux is that Ti user, without a cultivation of Fe, is less in touch with the emotional data stream and more likely to take in the fact data before emotional data can be processed.

I need to explain and probe logically. When my logic is committing fallacies such as "Women are the bane of existence to humanity" it signals to me that I need to burrow deeper as it signifies that I have an emotion that is unresolved and leading my thinking process to be influenced by an emotion--as in, with the case above, I'm probably upset that a group of girls sabotaged me, then I wonder why that makes me upset and discover that something that I lost meant something to me on a personal level.

Point is, even ENTP's have Fi, we just don't have direct access to it at all times. It's buried deeply on an unconscious level and we have to search through the swamp to get there.

Fe is a more accessible function for me. Fi is very unconscious and requires a lot of probing. Fe is pretty accessible all the time, it's just draining and annoying to use all the time.



I've heard that ENFP's have Ti as well, and just as it is with ENTPs cultivating Fi, ENFP's can cultivate Ti when the situation requires. But I think it's more likely that in an engineering environment you're using Te which cues you into efficiency and how things work. The difference between Te and Ti is that Te is about function on a mass scale, information you can rely on and prove with flow charts, information that is socially accepted. On the other hand, Ti is subjective fact interpretation which may or may not blend in socially accepted systems of thought.

Te likes arguments by authority.
Ti likes arguments that make sense.

Te doesn't like arguements by authority...it's more about reasoning in ways that make sense in ways that can be collectively accepted, while Ti is more about reasoning in ways that the person subjectively prefers. What I bolded is way too simplistic and can apply to both. Obviously, T in general is about striving for objectively factual and logical establishments of reasoning that can serve as authorities to work from and make sense.

 

[Who]

Never mind, @JungyesMBTIno said everything I wanted more concisely.

 

[marzipan01]

Never mind, @JungyesMBTIno said everything I wanted more concisely.

Obviously our disagreement is likely a matter of Te/Ti clash.

 

[viva]

Also is part of why ENFP's aren't as good at math as ENTPs.

Really surprised I am the first person to call you out on how wrong this is, but uh, this is wrong.

 

[The Great One]

Yeah, it's very difficult to determine because my Ti and Fi are neck and neck. If I take a damn functions test, it looks like this....

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 13.38
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 12.68
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||||||||||||| 7.62
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||| 7.6
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||||||||||| 6.53
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||| 3.24
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||| 0.71
Introverted Sensation (Si) || -0.46


Based on your cognitive functions, your type is most likely:
Most Likely: ENFP
or Second Possibility: ENFJ
or Third Possibility: INFP


Your cognitive functions are, in order of development:
Ne - Fe - Fi - Ni - Ti - Te - Se - Si

It's almost like I'm an ENxP.

 

[Functianalyst]

Yeah, it's very difficult to determine because my Ti and Fi are neck and neck. If I take a damn functions test, it looks like this....



It's almost like I'm an ENxP.

Were you given the option to show "none" of the description of a sentence fits? Those results look like someone who was reluctant to admit to being anything with such low scores.