I honestly don't like when someone doesn't let me say what I think cause it might hurt someone's feelings and whenever I try to share my opinion ENFPs get pissy (on and outside of this site). I don't mean to stereotype but INFPs, INFJs and ISFPs are considerate the most delicate types but I can't say I agree after how hushed I am by ENFPs but never by those types. And it always happens too!
Why is this? I've seen no exception so far, in fact, I kind of have a feeling someone will get their feelings hurt even by me saying this much. I could just shut my mouth, sugar coat and pretend everything's top notch but that's just stupid now isn't it? Because you learn from asking questions and sharing your opinion, I do anyway! I go in with an open mind not a closed one. Which is why I'm asking, for validation that this is true, that ENFPs want everything to be happy and perfect, and for everyone to shut up about what they think or feel (yes feel).
Is this true? Are you someone who prefers people to shut their mouths, learn nothing and play pretend as if everything's okay and everything's doesn't deserve the conflict/attention that it needs?
Is it the aspect of hurting another that's placed above being able to say what you feel is important? It's happened to me at least five times too and I don't troll or search for trouble in real life or on here (most of the time, I like to see what I can get away with but I never have been doing so in these situations in which I've been told to just be quiet and stop hurting people's feelings..)
I'm really not a troll though. I hope you know that.I love ENFPs in general, too. I love all types but they have a special place in my....wherever.
I honestly don't like when someone doesn't let me say what I think cause it might hurt someone's feelings and whenever I try to share my opinion ENFPs get pissy (on and outside of this site). I don't mean to stereotype but INFPs, INFJs and ISFPs are considerate the most delicate types but I can't say I agree after how hushed I am by ENFPs but never by those types. And it always happens too!
Why is this? I've seen no exception so far, in fact, I kind of have a feeling someone will get their feelings hurt even by me saying this much. I could just shut my mouth, sugar coat and pretend everything's top notch but that's just stupid now isn't it? Because you learn from asking questions and sharing your opinion, I do anyway! I go in with an open mind not a closed one. Which is why I'm asking, for validation that this is true, that ENFPs want everything to be happy and perfect, and for everyone to shut up about what they think or feel (yes feel).
Is this true? Are you someone who prefers people to shut their mouths, learn nothing and play pretend as if everything's okay and everything's doesn't deserve the conflict/attention that it needs?
Is it the aspect of hurting another that's placed above being able to say what you feel is important? It's happened to me at least five times too and I don't troll or search for trouble in real life or on here (most of the time, I like to see what I can get away with but I never have been doing so in these situations in which I've been told to just be quiet and stop hurting people's feelings..)
I'm really not a troll though. I hope you know that.I love ENFPs in general, too. I love all types but they have a special place in my....wherever.
I am not really sure where you got this impression. ENFP in my experience are completely O.K. with me stating my opinion in the manner I think about it. As long as I'm honest they either agree with me or respectively disagree.
I have seen a lot of ENFPs also complain that INTJs are too insensitive and don't really like ENFPs. I think the thread in the INTJ forum titled "what do you guys REALLY like about us?" (or something similar) is an example. This thread as far as I can tell is the only place I have seen an INTJ ENFP clash. Hopefully those INTJs just met young/immature ENFPs.
May I ask what some of your opinions that have been perceived as mean are?
My friendboy was talking about how he never got any girls even though he's a nice guy and how he treated women with respect and didn't treat them like objects, blah blah blah. But women weren't interested in him because he didn't have a job or a car yet or lots of money. I wasn't really thinking very hard and I said "Well, give yourself time, women are always settling for losers" I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I don't even remember what I was trying to say, but it came out completely wrong and offensive. I explained this and he said I actually did think he was a loser. Then he asked me "do you think I'm a loser, honestly?" and I explained I didn't think he was a loser I just said he should get some balls when he's talking to women and stop thinking women are shallow enough to only care about money and cars etc, I said that wasn't the problem I said him not being brave enough to talk to them was.
So then my friendgirl (ENFP) starting saying I was so insensitive after how upset what I said had made him. She told me I should keep quite about the mean things I think in future, she said something like "if I were to say everything that was on my mind you'd hate me! But I don't because I love you and I don't want you to hate me" to me.
That's a good question. I never saw that thread, interesting.
I'll use these examples since they're pretty specific:
My friendboy was talking about how he never got any girls even though he's a nice guy and how he treated women with respect and didn't treat them like objects, blah blah blah. But women weren't interested in him because he didn't have a job or a car yet or lots of money. I wasn't really thinking very hard and I said "Well, give yourself time, women are always settling for losers" I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I don't even remember what I was trying to say, but it came out completely wrong and offensive. I explained this and he said I actually did think he was a loser. Then he asked me "do you think I'm a loser, honestly?" and I explained I didn't think he was a loser I just said he should get some balls when he's talking to women and stop thinking women are shallow enough to only care about money and cars etc, I said that wasn't the problem I said him not being brave enough to talk to them was.
So then my friendgirl (ENFP) starting saying I was so insensitive after how upset what I said had made him. She told me I should keep quite about the mean things I think in future, she said something like "if I were to say everything that was on my mind you'd hate me! But I don't because I love you and I don't want you to hate me" to me.
My brother told me to stop sharing my dislike of school, my religious views, my political views with my parents because it got me into trouble. He has the same set-up of morals and viewpoints, nearly, as I do! But when me bringing up my opinion of this at home and when it upset someone he'd take their sides and tell me it's better if I just keep my mouth shut.
Then there was that psychic thread on here.
Maybe it's not ENFPs, maybe it's me and what I say and ENFPs just happen to be there lol.
A polite argument is the only argument that actually goes anywhere.
People throw out everything they've got and know when it's a heated argument, you not only learn more about what you're arguing about, you learn more about people.
I've been learning tact, but I also think the other person should learn to not let their feelings get hurt so easily, it's only fair.
I actually tell people the honest truth to help them, not because I enjoy or get a kick out of it. I am not one for sugar coating, I'm very against that. This is how I look at it; if I say something you consider mean, it's the same thing as me giving you a compliment. I think being criticised and praised makes us know which traits of our's to let shine through and which to deal with so we develop better as people. It's only cause I care, just cause I do it differently . You can change your faults, don't be so negative. He can become braver and learn how to talk to girls, I'm helping him with it.
I could be less abrasive admittedly. And I don't agree everyone knows the negative things you want to say, not in all situations.
I was upset with my friend that he was throwing out stereotypes about women, saying they were shallow, I got carried away with that and ended up saying you know it's not that stereotype that's stopping you from getting chicks, it's you.
And I really want to know what bad things my ENFP friendgirl thinks about me, it helps.
I am afraid you might need a bit of an attitude change here. What is the point of telling the brutal truth is someone just gets pissed off? You didn't help them, you just made them upset and self conscious. And don't expect people to change so you don't need to censor your sentences, not everyone can and most won't be that insensitive.
This is really just learning about how to work with others. Some you can say whatever you want to, some you can't. You NEED to know what people's boundaries are. Knowing them are important in all relationships, which are instrumentally important for career success or dating. Saying the wrong thing can get you fired, make your life miserable at work, or prevent you from meeting someone. And yea, people are that sensitive. One slip up can do it.
I would suggest, in the future, telling him your opinions on his stereotyping of women in a tactful way. You may also want to keep in mind he is hurt and ranting...... he doesn't want your opinion necessarily, he wants support. Also, you retaliating on an unrelated topic does not make it clear to someone why your being mean.
I doubt you can get ENFP friendgirl to tell you what she thinks are the bad things about you. She probably won't be able to make herself do it from a moral level. Also, she probably thinks on some level that you might retaliate. She wouldn't be able to put up with the same verbal punishment as you.
People throw out everything they've got and know when it's a heated argument, you not only learn more about what you're arguing about, you learn more about people.
I was told this when I was younger. My older siblings would constantly berate me. Eventually I would get upset and as an excuse they would say "we're just trying to get you to man up." What I learned from this situation is to never allow anyone to tell me to "man up." I was endowed with a great deal of emotion and there is nothing I can do to change that. I can shove it away in a corner of my mind and become depressed about it later, but it's ultimately still there. If this is the logic you're using, then you have no right to become sad or upset when someone becomes upset with you over something you said. You would "learn to not let [your] feelings get hurt so easily."I've been learning tact, but I also think the other person should learn to not let their feelings get hurt so easily, it's only fair.
What it comes down to here is your phrasing. As odd as this may sound, the truth ultimately does need to be filtered, or else it comes out as "you're a loser," and no one wants to say something like that, or have something they say interpreted as that by a friend. As cliche as this may sound, just think before you speak. Of course everyone can change their faults, and of course a little help never hurts, but if you just call someone a loser, there's a very good chance that it will only further their depression and externally affirm what your friend already probably thought about himself.I actually tell people the honest truth to help them, not because I enjoy or get a kick out of it. I am not one for sugar coating, I'm very against that. This is how I look at it; if I say something you consider mean, it's the same thing as me giving you a compliment. I think being criticised and praised makes us know which traits of our's to let shine through and which to deal with so we develop better as people. It's only cause I care, just cause I do it differently :sad:. You can change your faults, don't be so negative. He can become braver and learn how to talk to girls, I'm helping him with it.
Well, there are definitely things that people are ignorant about, but the two examples you brought up were your friend and your parents, and the third was the girl with interest in psychic abilities. Neither of these situations (I feel) are you sharing vital, life altering information that they wouldn't have known otherwise, you're simply giving them a blunt opinion. What is a person supposed to do with just your opinion? Two example conversations:I could be less abrasive admittedly. And I don't agree everyone knows the negative things you want to say, not in all situations.
It's painfully obvious that he's throwing out these stereotypes because of his own insecurity, but that's not what matters. What you said doesn't matter, what matters is how it was interpreted. Using tact and proper phrasing greatly helps in eliminating the chance of misinterpretation. Often times, when I say something blunt or rude to someone, they don't take what I have to say to heart, they simply write me off as an ass and move on with their lives. Blunt statements only work with people in desperate need of them. To use an amusing analogy, girls don't typically choose to use jumbo tampons unless they need them. :wink:I was upset with my friend that he was throwing out stereotypes about women, saying they were shallow, I got carried away with that and ended up saying you know it's not that stereotype that's stopping you from getting chicks, it's you.
I've been in plenty heated arguments that were still extremely civil and cordial. I enjoy a legitimate challenge, not a mudslinging contest.
I'm not upset, what is up with all this assuming? I'm wondering if ENFPs want to hush people and get them to lie to people's faces to make them feel good about themselves while they become worse in the long run. When did I say it upset me that they hushed me? It's unfair I think.I was told this when I was younger. My older siblings would constantly berate me. Eventually I would get upset and as an excuse they would say "we're just trying to get you to man up." What I learned from this situation is to never allow anyone to tell me to "man up." I was endowed with a great deal of emotion and there is nothing I can do to change that. I can shove it away in a corner of my mind and become depressed about it later, but it's ultimately still there. If this is the logic you're using, then you have no right to become sad or upset when someone becomes upset with you over something you said. You would "learn to not let [your] feelings get hurt so easily."
Men who are scared to talk to women aren't losersWhat it comes down to here is your phrasing. As odd as this may sound, the truth ultimately does need to be filtered, or else it comes out as "you're a loser," and no one wants to say something like that, or have something they say interpreted as that by a friend. As cliche as this may sound, just think before you speak. Of course everyone can change their faults, and of course a little help never hurts, but if you just call someone a loser, there's a very good chance that it will only further their depression and externally affirm what your friend already probably thought about himself.
My parents need to know how I feel about things! What kind of household would we live in if they didn't know anything about their daughter or if they didn't teach me what they knew? Interest in psychic abilities? She was saying she had them, and I thought that was making ENFPs look dumb. So we should only share what we think if it's vital? Absolutely life changing? Is that what you think you're doing for me? She said she wanted my opinion, I don't know what she'd do with it. Masturbate to it probably.Well, there are definitely things that people are ignorant about, but the two examples you brought up were your friend and your parents, and the third was the girl with interest in psychic abilities. Neither of these situations (I feel) are you sharing vital, life altering information that they wouldn't have known otherwise, you're simply giving them a blunt opinion. What is a person supposed to do with just your opinion? Two example conversations:
1)
Person A: Bees are harmless.
Person B: Actually, they sting people, and some people are really allergic and could die.
2)
Person A: Bees are my favorite insect.
Person B: Well, that makes no sense, did you know that they can be deadly?
While perhaps extreme examples, do you see the difference?
I didn't mean to say it, I don't normally say things like that. Well, if people write me off as an ass(biscuit) than there's no harm done!It's painfully obvious that he's throwing out these stereotypes because of his own insecurity, but that's not what matters. What you said doesn't matter, what matters is how it was interpreted. Using tact and proper phrasing greatly helps in eliminating the chance of misinterpretation. Often times, when I say something blunt or rude to someone, they don't take what I have to say to heart, they simply write me off as an ass and move on with their lives. Blunt statements only work with people in desperate need of them. To use an amusing analogy, girls don't typically choose to use jumbo tampons unless they need them. :wink:
I assumed you were upset because of the sad face.
I feel we've reached a difference of opinion. I don't see the point in continuing this discussion.
I'm really not a troll though. I hope you know that.I love ENFPs in general, too. I love all types but they have a special place in my....wherever.