[MaggieRooWho]

I am having the ~worst~ time of it right now, and I was wondering if any of you have been here...

I've been with the same person for almost 1 whole year, making it my 2nd longest relationship ever... I joke to friends that my longest relationship I've ever had has been with my dog. :tongue: We were so magnetically drawn to each other. After my last relationship, I took some "me time" and really figured out who I was and what I could and couldn't change about myself in order to maintain personal truth and integrity. In this discovery, I acknowledged my thorough "ENFP-ness", and decided it wasn't something I could try to keep fighting. :laughing:

He is on the total opposite spectrum... a very thorough INTJ. (He actually posts on their forum and everything.) We fell stupidly, madly, passionately in love. We moved in together after 6 weeks, and we've been together ever since.

The problem is... he hadn't done any soul-searching after his previous relationship, and being with me has helped him grow and figure himself out... and he's figured out that a lot of the things that he needs (TONS of alone time, security, stability, clear-mindedness) are in direct conflict with what I need (TONS of time with people, the ability to fly away any time I need to, spontaneity, emotional intimacy, etc.)...

I find myself totally unable to leave. We have had conversation after conversation about how we're so wrong for each other, but we're amazing in bed together, we have fun together, we take care of each other, and we still love each other. Our discussions alternate between how miserable and restricted we feel around each other, and how much we are in love.

Yet, simply put, I have been crying my eyes out every night after he goes to sleep for the last 4 months. It occurred to me that this may perhaps be an ENFP thing, and I was wondering if you had any advice or stories to share with me. I want to leave, but I can't seem to actually get my feet moving, and seeing as he's the first person I've ever really REALLY loved, I can't just disconnect for some reason.

Halp?

 

[On the road to Damascus]

This is a tough situation..."With or without you"...can't help but think of the epic U2 song...

I must say that I seem to have trouble getting out of relationships that rock me to my core. I seem to take twice the amount of time getting over the relationship than the actual time that the relationship lasted. :frustrating:

The only thing I can suggest is to keep the dialogue going. Would a trial separation help? It might be complicated since you are actually living together.

I have seen a variety of my friends go through split-ups and sometimes they go to couples counselling to actually split-up. This results in all of the mourning period being done with a counsellor and the two individuals are better able to more on more quickly.

Good-luck!

 

[MaggieRooWho]

Would a trial separation help? It might be complicated since you are actually living together.

I have seen a variety of my friend go through split-ups and sometimes they go to couples counselling to actually split-up. This results in all of the mourning period being done with a counsellor and the two individuals are better able to more on more quickly.

Well, we're actually moving into a new apartment together this weekend, one with two bedrooms across the apartment from each other. We've actually decided to have separate rooms; he needs his personal space/alone time, and I need a place I can decorate to really reflect my spirit. Is that a trial separation? Sort of? Can it count as one?

I've never thought about going to a couples counselor for a break-up, but it's a fantastic idea.

 

[On the road to Damascus]

Well, we're actually moving into a new apartment together this weekend, one with two bedrooms across the apartment from each other. We've actually decided to have separate rooms; he needs his personal space/alone time, and I need a place I can decorate to really reflect my spirit. Is that a trial separation? Sort of? Can it count as one?

I've never thought about going to a couples counselor for a break-up, but it's a fantastic idea.

Maybe the revised living arrangement would be a breathing period to see if you guys can make it work together but yet to give each other enough space to deal with your own individuality...but you will probably still need to focus on where you two are going as a couple...e.g. similar life goals, a few complimentary interests ect.

One of my close friends was going to counselling for a while and she told me that her therapist told her -"people get couples counselling to stay together or to figure out to to fall apart"...it's very counter-intuitive but I think it's a very healthy decision to make as a couple...figure out how to break-up.

 

[pinkrasputin]

This is depressing me!!! Thanks Damascus. I will never bring another guy into couples counseling again! :crying:

Actually, the longer I physically stay around someone the more deeper I'm prone to fall in love. Period. If I really want to get over someone, I have to move away from them completely. This means no emails or pictures I could look at, etc.

It seems you might be looking for the motivation to move away? Perhaps you are relying on you momentary feelings too much. It's okay to take an action first and the feelings will follow. The feelings will follow because you are working in line with your goals.

Example: You don't want to be with him anymore. You have made your decision that it's unhealthy. But at the moment-you just can't bring yourself to leave. You want your feelings to motivate you to do the "right thing" but they aren't. So you are going to have to go ahead and do the action before you feel like it. And once you do it, you know it will be right.

However, if you need the "drip drip" method with a counselor, I'm all for it. I HATE breakups. A counselor might be a healthy way to go or an expensive way. It's obviously up to you.

Why are you guys so "wrong" for each other?

 

[MaggieRooWho]

Why are you guys so "wrong" for each other?

It's pretty much everything. I want to spend time with him, he wants to spend it alone doing the INTJ "recharge" thing. I want to be emotionally intimate, he can't understand and wants to make all of my feelings about logic (which, of course, will NEVER make sense). We decorate in a violently different way. He's picky about everything, I'm pretty much picky about nothing in the world. I feel like he's behaving in a condescending and superior way towards me, when in his reality he's actually holding back and trying to be nice.

I could go on for years. Literally. :sad:

 

[Alysaria]

I can offer advice all day long, but it won't be in the INTJ language.... I'd pretty much be telling you what you already know and have said to him.... Take him to visit enfpforum. >.> There's this brilliant INTJ lady over there named Psyko who offers spectacular advice to INTJs about dealing with ENFPs, having had tons of experience with us and all our little quirks. I'm sure she could help you convey your needs to him in a way he can both understand and respect. Your goals don't necessarily have to exclude each other.

 

[EskimoFox]

Honestly, I don't believe in incompatible people, only unwilling people, which at times might be legitimate. So coming from that I would have to say you two need to figure out how to work together. If you guys are getting in fights over little stuff then what's a better way to deal with little things. I hate to suggest it being a staunch ENFP myself, but he may even respond to "scheduling" time to be together and time for him to be alone. This doesn't mean plotting it out on the calander, just having a talking session with him about when he could have his alone time that would be most convenient for the both of you ie. when you're not there, so that when you are there he can totally give himself to you fully. The difficulties you are describing are typical clash points between Extraverts and Introverts, Thinkers and Feelers, and Judgers and Percievers. So don't sweat it too much, it may seem like a big deal, but this is so not the end of the world, just the point at which you can get to know him even better by working with him to find your relationship's balance.

With the E vs. I, you actually have a built in mechanism that you can relate to his alone time, since you're an ENFP. See, we ENFPs spend a lot of our down time figuring out who we are, re-affirming our value system. This actually turns out to sometimes look a lot like the alone-time model of introverts. Try to find a balance between his alone time and his time with you, and if he's just wanting alone time ALL the time, maybe then you should reconsider the relationship. It sounds like you two still very much want to be together though so don't worry. Oh yeah, and according to studies, it's good to have one person an E and the other an I in relaitonships.

T vs. F This one's more tricky, and I think the one you might actually be having the most difficulty with, because its a matter of decision making and rationale. The way both of you make decisions is totally different, you by way of feelings, him by way of logic. This however doesn't have to be a dividing factor, let it work to your advantage by letting him make decisions that require logic and you search for decisions that more require emotion, like interpersonal issues. It's a matter of finding your strengths and working off of each other that makes good relationships.

J vs. P This wouldn't really be a problem if you two were'nt in such close quarters because its simply the way you go about living life. The only answer I have for this one is you have to try to meet him halfway, clean up your stuff, compromise on decoration whether by just dividing up the apartment (lol) or finding some happy medium, and ask him to put up with those annoying habits that you just CANNOT break. This one, though is definately not the end of the world.

I hope this helps, it REALLY involved but maybe it helps highlight the issues at hand. One thing to remember above all is that you two have one thing in common, the way you think. You are both intuitives, so capitalize on that, find things that you both share in that respect and enjoy them! A great relationship isn't just gonna happen to you, you have to work at it, just like anything in life, but if you do work at it then in some ways it is more rewarding than anything else in life.:laughing:

 

[Later Days]

Break it off. It takes two to tango, and when one half is no longer happy, the relationship isn't working out.

This actually sounds a lot like my last relationship (Except he was an INTP). He was my second longest relationship ever (Almost an entire year), but I finally had to break it off due to the fact that all we did was fight, and all I did was cry, though we were quite good together in other aspects. He was the first person I've ever dumped, and it was the hardest thing I've had to do almost ever. He refused to break it off, because he's stubborn and said he would never be the one at the beginning of the relationship. He figured that it was giving up, and if you did that you were a failure, and with enough trying anything could work. He didn't understand my feelings though, and would say truly crushing things (Things that would kill any ENFP's optimism). I couldn't stand to bawl my eyes out anymore. He was controlling, horrible to my friends, and pretty much the definition of a sociopath. I think I thought I could honestly influence him with my general optimism and love for everything.
Anyway. Sorry. had to get that off my chest.
Generally, I'm pretty content to wait around until they break it off. It feels like a cleaner break. The only exception was that last relationship, and that was because it was getting to the point of emotionally abusive (Telling me who I was allowed to hang out with, where I was allowed to go, saying absolutely terrible things about my friends, telling me that most of my opinions were invalid and wrong, and always always always having to know where I was or else an absolute freak out would occur).
I wish I had the ability to just be able to walk away from a regular relationship that wasn't working out. I'm sure it would have saved me a lot of regret.

 

[Ikari T]

Yet, simply put, I have been crying my eyes out every night after he goes to sleep for the last 4 months. It occurred to me that this may perhaps be an ENFP thing, and I was wondering if you had any advice or stories to share with me. I want to leave, but I can't seem to actually get my feet moving, and seeing as he's the first person I've ever really REALLY loved, I can't just disconnect for some reason.

Halp?

If I may ask, what makes you cry that much?

 

[MaggieRooWho]

If I may ask, what makes you cry that much?

As trite as it sounds, knowing that I'm totally alone even though my partner is there in the same room with me. He spends more time withdrawn and elsewhere engaged than he does connecting with me. There's improvement sometimes, but it's random, and it fluctuates. I think he tries, I just think he fails.

When we first got together, and described to each other the way that we thought and felt, and the needs that we had in a relationship, it seemed that they fit perfectly. Because of our needs and our personalities, we were able to give to each other effortlessly. I've stayed the same, though; my needs and personality haven't changed. His have. Most things that he said he needed are things he no longer needs, and things that he said he didn't need are things that he needs badly. I end up so terribly unhappy because he isn't the person he told me he was... he's actually turned into the opposite person. And because I love him, and I can't exactly turn it off with the flip of a switch, now I'm entangled and don't know what to do.

It's basically a big fat trainwreck.

 

[Ikari T]

As trite as it sounds, knowing that I'm totally alone even though my partner is there in the same room with me. He spends more time withdrawn and elsewhere engaged than he does connecting with me. There's improvement sometimes, but it's random, and it fluctuates. I think he tries, I just think he fails.

When we first got together, and described to each other the way that we thought and felt, and the needs that we had in a relationship, it seemed that they fit perfectly. Because of our needs and our personalities, we were able to give to each other effortlessly. I've stayed the same, though; my needs and personality haven't changed. His have. Most things that he said he needed are things he no longer needs, and things that he said he didn't need are things that he needs badly. I end up so terribly unhappy because he isn't the person he told me he was... he's actually turned into the opposite person. And because I love him, and I can't exactly turn it off with the flip of a switch, now I'm entangled and don't know what to do.

It's basically a big fat trainwreck.

So bascially, he moved on and you're stuck. He lied to you about who he really is.

I think you need to accept the fact that it is over and find somewhere else to live in the time being. Seeing him every day is not going to help. You need some time away from him to recover and get a sense of what you need to do next. But what do I know?

Give yourself some time to think about it.

 

[MaggieRooWho]

So bascially, he moved on and you're stuck. He lied to you about who he really is.

I don't think he lied. I honestly think he just didn't know. The only other relationship he's had, other than me, was with his ex-wife, who didn't give to him any, at all. So I think the things he thought he needed, he was wrong about. He'd never been in a healthy, normal relationship before... not like this one is turning out to be particularly healthy, but still. He didn't do a lot of soul-searching between the two relationships, and I don't think he knew what he needed or wanted by the time we got together. For some reason, I feel like INTJs really don't lie. They don't care enough about what other people think to lie. But I could be wrong.

I think you need to accept the fact that it is over and find somewhere else to live in the time being. Seeing him every day is not going to help. You need some time away from him to recover and get a sense of what you need to do next. But what do I know?

Thanks for the dose of reality. I need it sometimes. And I wish I could find somewhere else to live... unfortunately, this area is expensive, and my job doesn't pay well enough for me to pay my bills and live on my own. He makes all the money right now; I'm kinda stuck for the time being.

 

[EskimoFox]

It sounds more serious than it did at first, and it may very well be time to break it off. All I would urge you to do is first try really being honest with him about where you are at, and find out if he's there too. Because it sounds like he's ready to be done with the relationship.

 

[MaggieRooWho]

Well, the relationship was ended for me. F my effin' life.

I've been crying pretty much non-stop for 3 days and can guarantee at least 3x3 more days coming.... maybe 3 months. ENFPs are supposed to bounce back from things quickly, aren't they? Why do I have the hardest time with this? I only get out of bed to go to work and walk my dogs. It is downright debilitating to the point where I literally am not functioning.

I know... therapy... meds... etc etc... but I can't afford it since I no longer have a shared income. So I'm gonna have to barrel through this bitch on my own.

 

[Moby]

I can't really identify with this post. I've had two bad relationships and I jumped out of both as soon as it got to what I felt was irreconcilable. Sure, it was awkward breaking up, always is, but it felt good within a week or two. I wasn't in love with either girl though.

 

[pinkrasputin]

Well, the relationship was ended for me. F my effin' life.

I've been crying pretty much non-stop for 3 days and can guarantee at least 3x3 more days coming.... maybe 3 months. ENFPs are supposed to bounce back from things quickly, aren't they? Why do I have the hardest time with this? I only get out of bed to go to work and walk my dogs. It is downright debilitating to the point where I literally am not functioning.

I know... therapy... meds... etc etc... but I can't afford it since I no longer have a shared income. So I'm gonna have to barrel through this bitch on my own.

Break ups hurt like a bitch. I'm very sorry. I know us ENFPs feel everything so deeply. It's worse when they break things off with you. It probably kicked up a big abandonment issue for you and that is why you held on for as long as you did.

However, we DO move on very quickly. I promise you. I think it is because we feel everything so deeply, we process things faster.

Shame on him. I think you were a rebound relationship for him. Those never end well. He was either looking for everything his former mate wasn't, or he was looking for everything she was. That is how rebound works. But instead, he needed to spend time alone reflecting and thinking of the parts he wanted to keep and parts he that didn't work for him. He tried to avoid his pain over the last relationship by jumping into a relationship with you. That is very dangerous. Because any anger he still had for his ex could now be directed at you since she wasn't there.

Or he was looking for his "happy pill". You don't remind him of anything she was. So you were an escape. But then when he realized "totally different" isn't what he need either, he tries to move on from you.

He just didn't know himself or his needs and you got caught in the whirlwind of his confusion.

Then your need for the perfect ideal relationship and your vision of what could be made you keep working at it. You didn't want to give up. But the reality is, that perfect ideal relationship didn't exist because all you need to see is this reality.

Cheer up hon. You haven't changed. You are still beautiful with wonderful qualities. He had the issue from the beginning. I've been with a man who changed. It was awful. It set my head spinning. I trusted him so much in the beginning to remain the same and that is why I moved things forward with him. I took that risk because he was so different in the beginning.

Then he changed. Was it my fault? He even swears "no". And why would I care? I don't want to be with someone who is so fickle. If they don't want me or if they "change" that is their problem. I should be the one judging them for that kind of behavior. Not the other way around. And not worried about how he doesn't like me anymore. I wasn't the one who changed or did anything wrong.

True, it sucks about the investment that you had in the relationship. But don't beat yourself up about it. You trusted him to be more adjusted and over previous relationships when you first started dating. He didn't warn you in the beginning "I'm going to change my mind about my needs part way through the relationship and call it quits." Had he done that, I'm sure you would not have let yourself get involved.

I think because us ENFPs can see other people's motivations so well, it really sucks for us when we don't see something coming. But we are not in control of everything, and obviously there are going to be times where we can't predict all the behaviors of those we love.

Take care of yourself. You don't need to suffer alone. You can get counseling, btw. You just haven't searched every avenue. Don't give up. I KNOW you can find a way to get counseling and support. You just have to try. Make a dedication to getting healthy and happy again. Find a counselor and a way to have it funded. I know you don't enjoy this misery. You at least go to work. I can't even concentrate on work through my break ups.

Good luck and keep us posted, sweetie. *Hugs*

 

[Aiam]

Oh, HELL I wish I had something useful to say. All I can think of, and this is the truth, is that we ENFPs are much stronger than we think we are. It's a societal trope that to feel deeply is to be weak, but I think in grounds us in a way that few others can understand. You are in the thick of the storm, and the squalls will keep coming, but the recovery has already started. It may not feel like it now, but you have to stop a moment and think about just how strong and decisive you have been in just posting and talking about this enormously difficult event in your life.

I understand what you mean when it comes to partners changing in the middle of things. I'm the middle of that myself, and I think that it's very common, generally, since people as a whole aren't static throughout their lives. What does happen, though, is that sometimes, people evolve away from each other. He needs something different now and it feels like he's blaming you somehow for not being those things. Maybe it comes from INTJs being so grounded in stability--they may not necessarily feel like they've changed all that much.

But that change? It feels like a frickin' BETRAYAL. You are both on the pitch and he is the one who has changed the ground rules, without telling you, and looks down on you for not knowing.

Relationships are each a very varied and different thing. And each and every one of us are poisoned by what we are told are "normal" relationships. We are poisoned by media, misled by family beliefs. A friend of mine and her husband amaze me: they are both polyamorous, have separate partners, but are in a deeply committed, lasting, and loving relationship with one another. It is the farthest thing from traditional I've seen in my life. But the constants in their relationship--the foundations--are openness and respect. There is no arrogance, no condescension, and when a misunderstanding does arise, it is treated with proper attention and a genuine drive to see it resolved.

Not only do we struggle to relate to our partners, we struggle vainly to fit our relationships into the tiny, weird-ass frames that we have been led to believe relationships should fit in.

Ultimately, though, you must do what is best for you. As an ENFP, it is enormously difficult to separate oneself from the feelings of others, but one of the best phrases I've ever heard from anyone is this: "I am not responsible for your feelings." If you have done your level best to be honest and respectful, and you feel that you're getting jerked around, you're not being respected, and it's simply time to you. You are the one who matters most. Always.

I wish you luck, patience, and perseverance. Keep us posted, and my thoughts are with you.

 

[NateBoiWhite]

Yes untill recently I had a problem staying in unhealthy relationships, but meeting woman in nightclubs to begin relationships with was my first mistake. We did not have relationships the majority were just trauma bonds. I took on all the persons problems in terms of me consoling them trying to fix them. I know that all relationships take work but its a matter of gaging your compatibility and both of your willingness to work on your issues. And even two people sometimes who are healthy and take responsibility for their behavior and all that good stuff, they still may just lack that chemistry to keep the relationship afloat. I have only been in love once and even when a problem arised the way we handled it was beautiful and drew us closer.( complicated loving mutual breakup) anyway I get the feeling ? your not really that much in love? if so dont settle. We all deserve to smile with that internal glow knowing we have someone who loves every aspect of us as we do them....projects are ok but take so much energy for unknown outcome.

 

[The Great One]

Yes, I fall in love easily, but the good thing is that I also fall out of love easily. So whenever, I feel like I can't leave a bad relationship, then I just find a new girl and forget completely about the last one almost instantly.