A few things to keep in mind as you study:
- 8's often feel as though they have been wronged at some point when they were children, when they couldn't defend themselves. They feel as though it should have never happened to an innocent child, and ensure it will never happen again. Many report being driven by a constant desire to "right the wrongs," hence Sandra Maitri's labeling of the type "Ego-Revenge." When unhealthy, this takes the form of destruction, manipulation, violence. When healthy, it takes the form of lifting others on a pedestal.
- 7's develop their traits from a premature separation from someone or something early in life. They aren't sure they will receive what they want from anyone else, so they learn to seek their own fulfillment to fill the void and hence, learn to block out the unpleasant things that result from their actions. They are driven to feel fulfilled, and feel they have to map out their actions to ensure they will be, hence Sandra Maitri's labeling of the type "Ego-Planning." When unhealthy, this takes the form of conning others, manipulation, amorality. When healthy, the active-mindedness synthesizes something entirely new for the world.
Wow. I think anybody who does this to their own child ought to be woodshedded. I'm so sorry to hear you had a shitty relationship with your mother, it shouldn't have been that way. From what you've got here, it sounds like it's made a significant impact on the way you live your life now.in fact she used hot sauce to get me to stop nursing
Internal pain is an under-discussed, but critical theme of 7. They make excellent schmoozers because they are excellent at schmoozing themselves, out of the reality of their own inner deadness.
- 8's often feel as though they have been wronged at some point when they were children, when they couldn't defend themselves. They feel as though it should have never happened to an innocent child, and ensure it will never happen again. Many report being driven by a constant desire to "right the wrongs," hence Sandra Maitri's labeling of the type "Ego-Revenge." When unhealthy, this takes the form of destruction, manipulation, violence. When healthy, it takes the form of lifting others on a pedestal.
yeah this isn't such a good distinction at all. many kids get ''wronged'' by adults in different ways, and this doesn't turn them into a type 8. and likewise, there are plenty of 8s who grew up in a healthy environment and had happy childhoods.
it's not in what happened to you as a kid, it's how you react to what happened to you. 8s will deny getting hurt/pain/being ''wronged'', or in other words being affected by their environment and other people, if anything like that happened in their life, and they will toughen up and get over it.
constant desire to ''right the wrongs'' doesn't really sound 8ish to me either unless it's under special circumstances, like somebody hurting the person you care about; then yes, it's true. 8s aren't driven by moral or ethical notions, that's a type 1 thing. if it's the ''wrongs'' done to the 8 himself, then ''righting the wrongs'' is most likely to happen immediately after the fact. but holding grudges, dragging things out, holding on to hate...that's not usually 8.
but holding grudges, dragging things out, holding on to hate...that's not usually 8.
Figure said:Please describe why, then, the fixation revenge.
i don't differentiate between unconscious or conscious revenge. i either feel it or i don't. revenge is tied to feelings of hate for me. and like i said above, i can't sustain feelings of hate and retaliation for long. thus any feelings of revenge i might hold are short-term. this isn't true where there is a constant stressor or maybe (don't know, haven't experienced it) where an enormous damage is being done. my experience with the former turned out positive in the end, and i lack any first-hand experience with the latter. ergo, i don't fully understand the act of revenge, except in case of a loved one being hurt. that is the only condition where i fully understand it.Yeah, I didn't intend for it to sound like a "grudge match," but more where the revenge comes from unconsciously.
8s and 8 fixers are notorious for holding onto hate and holding grudges. They may not go through life constantly thinking about grudges but if they see someone that wronged them in the past they don't usually give them a second chance at anything.
i realize you deleted it, but i want to answer it anyway: i have no idea. this part about revenge remains largely unclear to me. i have no revenge fixation myself. i retaliate immediately, and in that sense i can be said to be vengeful. i react immediately and in that moment my reaction is a maximal one. but from first person experience, that feels more like a balancing reaction rather than a ''revenge'' to me. i will however avenge when someone hurts a person i love. in this sense i understand the desire for revenge very well. but it is the only context in which i do.
Most people probably don't, but that has little to do with whether it is or is not.i don't differentiate between unconscious or conscious revenge.
That's interesting. What does the hate feel like to you? Oddly enough, I haven't really heard any 8's talk about it much.revenge is tied to feelings of hate for me. and like i said above, i can't sustain feelings of hate and retaliation for long. thus any feelings of revenge i might hold are short-term. this isn't true where there is a constant stressor or maybe (don't know, haven't experienced it) where an enormous damage is being done. my experience with the former turned out positive in the end, and i lack any first-hand experience with the latter. ergo, i don't fully understand the act of revenge, except in case of a loved one being hurt. that is the only condition where i fully understand it.
bolded is true.
but i disagree with the former part. i can't sustain hatred. i'm incapable of doing it, despite of what i might want myself. i remember as a kid i actually got annoyed about it. someone pissed me off and in the moment where i felt it i wanted to tear them to pieces. in that moment i wanted to do a lot of damage to them. and then, some time went by and it all dissipated. feelings of hatred and retaliation were just gone. just like that, on their own, vanished. i no longer felt it and thus i no longer felt motivated to act upon what was done either.
but, if, in the future, i crossed paths with someone that did me wrong, of course there would be no 2nd chances. but it takes a lot for a person to get on my shit list like that. it would have to be something enormous for me to want to take revenge after the fact. to feel revenge after the fact. i don't feel hurt easily. in order to take revenge i would have to be very hurt by someone, and that is something extremely difficult for anyone to pull off. no-one has ever even come close.
Bare witness that this is just at an extreme level, just like 7s don't all party and do drugs and 4s aren't always depressed. These are just generalities that don't take into account an individual perspective, so no you won't relate to everything you read about 8s and vengeance.
@kb82
Wow. I think anybody who does this to their own child ought to be woodshedded. I'm so sorry to hear you had a shitty relationship with your mother, it shouldn't have been that way. From what you've got here, it sounds like it's made a significant impact on the way you live your life now.
I really relate with how you've described things here, though it sounds like your childhood was a lot less fair than mine. This isn't to be taken conclusively, but I think it reeks of how a 7w8 would view things. There's definitely a sense of injustice, personal strength, and persistence, but I'm picking up more of the escapist theme of 7 than revenge of 8.
Internal pain is an under-discussed, but critical theme of 7. They make excellent schmoozers because they are excellent at schmoozing themselves, out of the reality of their own inner deadness. Their flexibility, durability, and visionary abilities come at the price of holding the bag of their pain and shortcomings with acceptance. And with higher growth (to type 4), they may recognize what loss truly embodies, and learn to appreciate the fiber of the human soul as constantly rebuilds itself, in spite of itself. It's this pain - not physical pain, confrontation, etc per se - that 7's look to escape. You create a void by ignoring it, and fill it with garbage from the world around you.
All right, enough with the smushy crap. You should look at 7w8.
The bolded part was what I was trying to capture with "right the wrongs." It's actually something @Animal has mentioned, and from an outsider's POV, it doesn't stray far from "revenge."
hate is an intense dislike. but in my case i have ever only felt it short-term. i might even be confusing aggressive negative reaction with hate. i don't really know. if i've hated i've only done so in the heat of the moment. there is no person i can say i actually hate. i am not able to sustain this emotional state for a longer period of time. usually it just manifests itself as an intense immediate aversion to someone or something. it doesn't survive beyond a few hours post exposure.That's interesting. What does the hate feel like to you? Oddly enough, I haven't really heard any 8's talk about it much.
it strays from revenge in my 1st person experience. one is a reaction restoring the unbalanced state of things (Newton's 3rd law, anyone?). another is a premeditated act of retaliation after everything's already been said and done. that's what differentiates revenge from reaction for me. revenge implies long-term emotional involvement. since i am emotionally stable, or rather, unemotional, most of the time, i have no feelings of revenge. i don't feel the need for revenge
Okay, I think I know what you mean now. Yeah, it's a short-lived reaction to someone that you don't like. If mine is anything like yours, you don't have anything specific in mind other than that the very sight of them. I'm actually having trouble explaining what it's like now too, as it's very much a visceral thing. Mannerisms and things they do make it worse while they're there - mine tend to be with ostentatious or arrogant people. It's almost a "space" thing. Maybe it's different for an 8 core, more intense, though this is pretty intense as is.hate is an intense dislike. but in my case i have ever only felt it short-term. i might even be confusing aggressive negative reaction with hate. i don't really know. if i've hated i've only done so in the heat of the moment. there is no person i can say i actually hate. i am not able to sustain this emotional state for a longer period of time. usually it just manifests itself as an intense immediate aversion to someone or something. it doesn't survive beyond a few hours post exposure.