[lastofsix]

So, I have tested ENFJ over and over. I have also tested equal %'s on Enneagram 8 over and over. I was recently asked "How does this work? How can you be ENFJ and an 8?" This was a fair question, and I intend on answering it, BUT....it is complicated and some of it is too intimate for me to just discuss openly.

My reluctance made me turn to co workers and friends...People who have known me for a year or more. The over all consensus was that 8 really fits. When showed them ENFJ...they also heartily agreed. I asked them ok..logically, this should not work. ~I~ can see it, my co-workers can see it, but it seem that I need help explaining it to someone else.

One very basic comparison that would like to start with is...

ENFJs are externally focused, introspective, altruistic, positive and have excellent people skills. They place utmost importance on helping others grow. They are warm and have a natural desire to be supportive and encouraging. Being charismatic and possessing excellent language skills, they do well in leadership roles. ENFJs strive to enhance the lives of their human brethren.

EIGHTS are attracted to and appreciate power. They desire to be strong, independent, straightforward, assertive persons, who use their strength and influence to make the world a more just place to live in. They value equity, the equal distribution of power, and show a concern for the underprivileged and disenfranchised. Being your own person, doing your own thing, protecting your own is what life is all about.

I could be wrong, but I do not feel that these are mutually exclusive. I think 8 enhances and deepens some of the more primal/warrior-esque tendencies sides of ENFJ.... I understand that I ~should~ be a 2 or 9 or something more ...squishy yummy? But I seem to be the vibrant, bouncing ball of molten lava with a smile on my face....

Are there any ENFJ's out there who have an enneagram number that seems to be contradictory? Or any other ENFJs who can see the correlation between 8 and ENFJ like I can?


Thank you

 

[virgilio2203]

Personally being an 8 fits me really well, especially that I unconsciously become an ENTJ. However something that I disagree of the necessity of humiliating people to feel good about yourself (like an unhealthy 8 can become)

 

[lastofsix]

I totally agree. I would consider it unethical to humiliate anyone.
I am close to the divide between F and T too...Interesting...
Thank you

 

[Shadow1980]

It must be interesting to be an ENFJ and an 8. You must be the "mother" wherever you go.

I'm a 7. I think it kind of fits being an ENFJ and a 7 because both are enthusiastic and generally jovial. But I'm more prone to go on crazy adventures then contemplate the morality of my actions and sometimes the mush on this thread gets to be too much for me.

Welcome!

 

[Jojo]

Well you stated that something too intimate to discuss. I am going to assume that at a young your boundaries were stepped on by at one person. Though you didn't let determine your outlook on life. You want to make sure people don't go through the same as you. Rather Champion the cause than letting the problem Champion you?

 

[lastofsix]

Heh, Jojo...You are very perceptive. My back ground fits the 8 archetype...my boundaries were trounced on all over the place, but for some reason I was absolutely resilient. I became very independent at a very young age, and feel that my past is not unique, just an opportunity to evolve. I refuse to see myself as a victim. If I am a champion of any cause...it is this one. I feel like being a victim is a choice. I want people to have experiences, process and make more informed choices...not seek validation through pity or manipulated support. *stepping off of soap box now...*wink*


Shadow. Yes, I mother Everyone..to the highest degree. I try really hard not to, but I have a talent for assessing people, situations and environments quickly...This talent also enables me to apply cause and affect, generate options, and give advice in a straight forward manner. What I forget is that people have to make their own decisions, in their own time, when they are ready...I do this to demonstrate love..people receive my reflections as criticism.

*sigh*

 

[Nobleheart]

While most ENFJs are 2s, and this is the most natural progression for ENFJs, keep in mind that Enneatype development is based on our experiences as we develop, which means any MBTI type can develop into any Enneatype. The correlation between MBTI type and Enneagram type stems from the fact that MBTI has a strong effect on perspective, so people of a certain type often see the world and life events in a similar light. From what I understand, ENFJs are most commonly 2s, 9s, and 1s, but they could be any Enneatype if their development encouraged it and their perspective could accept it as such.

I am an ENFJ and I am definitely an 8. These things are not mutually exclusive at all, nor are any of the MBTI and Enneatypes. Just keep in mind that each MBTI / Enneagram pairing is going to have it's own slant.

8s often develop from abusive childhoods, or childhoods where they had to be strong or endure difficulty or being pushed around / out of control. 8s don't crave power. They crave being in control. This is a huge distinction. While power creates a lot of control, it isn't the only path to being in control. 8s then have a drive to use their ability to be in control to protect those that they care about. This is the 2-like quality of an 8. For ENFJs, this means the ability to protect pretty much everyone we know, but especially those close to us. Because we're NFJs, we're not as predisposed to focusing on power in the traditional sense - like money or status, but more in a spiritual / relationship sense. ENFJ 8s gather power by knowing the right people and having the right influence. We're also fiercely loyal, and a force to be reckoned with when something harms or even threatens those in our care. I like to compare the ENFJ 8 to the mentality of a wolf pack, very loyal, very connected, and very aware of how to get the pack to devour something through focused teamwork. We also refuse to be emotionally manipulated, and can see that coming a mile off.

Quite simply, it's all just a matter of blending the ingredients.

And for the record, I'm an 8w9 so/sx... so I'm not as over the top as a lot of 8s, and I really want nothing more than everyone to get along, and for there to be peace and happiness and tranquility... but that's where my 9 wing stops. I don't have any of the other 9 traits, and certainly don't react to stress like a 9. I face my stress head on, with as much speed and force as I can muster (and not hurt anyone who doesn't deserve it).

ENFJ + 8 = pretty darned awesome, even if we are a bit hard to handle.

 

[lastofsix]

Noble heart,

Wow, Thank you...

All I can do is nod in absolute agreement to everything you just said. I had to giggle with the "Wolf pack" imagery. I tell people who are really close to me that they are part of my pack.

It look like I have a lot to learn about Enneagrams. Thank you for the little lesson. I would definately like to learn more about the subtleties and dynamics between MBTI and Enneagrams.

 

[Nobleheart]

Noble heart,

Wow, Thank you...

All I can do is nod in absolute agreement to everything you just said. I had to giggle with the "Wolf pack" imagery. I tell people who are really close to me that they are part of my pack.

It look like I have a lot to learn about Enneagrams. Thank you for the little lesson. I would definately like to learn more about the subtleties and dynamics between MBTI and Enneagrams.

I'm glad I could help.

Honestly, I'm pretty new to Enneagram myself. I had a lot of trouble understanding Enneagram until I had one of those introverted intuition "aha" moments. All of a sudden I could see how the Enneagram is based on our inherent fears and motivations and everything that comes from dealing with them, coping mechanisms, etc. Enneagram types are more of a sense of our deepest motivations than anything that can be defined into words. The Enneatypes stem from our core motivations and the descriptions of how they manifest is much less important than what causes them. Once it clicks, it will make a lot of sense. Best advice I can give you is just read up on Enneagram types, and then at some point it will just click. From there, what you understand about MBTI will start to click as you'll see that these two things are unrelated, but overlap.

Here is a chart showing tendencies in MBTI and Enneagram. As you can see, it's not completely unheard of for any of the NFs to be 8s. (I suspect it's more likely to be mistyping than not, but clearly being an ENFJ and an 8 is not outside the realm of possibility... just on the rare side.)

View attachment 1063

Most 8's are ESTJs and ENTJs. This slants the typical description of 8s to focus more on the sorts of things that these types focus on - combining the inner strength and need to be in control of an 8 with the ExTJ need to delegate and focus on tangible resources. When combined with another MBTI type the 8's need to be in control and inner strength will manifest in that type's priorities. For an ENTP, that would be intellectual power and creative freedom. For an ISTP it would be self sufficiency and rugged individualism. For us ENFJs, it's spiritual / emotional in nature.

As a point of note, both Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and Ghandi were reported to be INFJ 8s. As you can see, Enneatype 8 and the NFJ personality can make a very potent combination. Whatever caused you to develop this type combination may have been unpleasant, but look to the positive, as these experiences have forged you into something amazing, and you wouldn't be who you are without them.

 

[Nobleheart]

I totally agree. I would consider it unethical to humiliate anyone.
I am close to the divide between F and T too...Interesting...
Thank you

Someone once told me that being an 8 elevates your T (or lowers your F if you're an F type)
They also said that being a sexual subtype elevates your P (or lowers your J if you're a J type)

This is interesting because my F and T scores are close, which isn't typical for an ENFJ. Also my J and P scores are close.

You and I seem to have a lot in common. I'm curious. Do you associate more with the 9 wing or the 7 wing, or do you think you're a balanced 8?

Also, what are your love languages?

Mine are:
Physical Touch 10
Words of Affirmation 8
Quality Time 7
Receiving Gifts 4
Acts of Service 1

 

[lastofsix]

LOL!!!! Oh dear lord,...you may be the Male ..Me! Ha! I tested close to borderline on the T and F, ...I am also somewhat close on the J and P.

I read all the enneagrams I was close too in %. 8 really hit me as truth with past history stuff, how I overcame it, and how I approach people in my life. Especially the stuff about Vulnerability, and anger with being "controlled" by people who do not have my best interests at heart..... I tested closer to 7 than 9, but I do not know if I am swinging my 7 wing vigorously right no due to being newly single, living on my own for the first time, and being ceremoniously smack around by the universe.

Give it a year and I will test again. *smile*

I am aware of Love Languages...and I will have to get back to you about that as well. I used to think it was words, and touch...but when I think about it long term I believe it may be more touch and acts of service.

I like to do projects with my mates. Also, coming home to a clean kitchen I can cook in, and a partner who is vacuming ....makes me ~Hot~.

I am very practical when it comes to maintaining long term relationships. There is the pleasure in a relationship and there is business. If the business (cleaning, bills, work ect..) is maintained then the pleasure remains in tact. Pleasure enables the family to relax so they can work..and thus the wheel turns...

*smile*

 

[lastofsix]

Words of Affirmation ....(4).Words only mean something to me when they are followed up by action.
Quality Time ....(8) Museums, The Theater, Art Shows, festivals, Movies, ....cultural stuff rocks
Receiving Gifts ....(1) I am a minimalist. Presents confuse me. Unless the gift is a DIY book...
Acts of Service....(11) My environment is an extension of me. You take care of my home, you take care of me.
Physical Touch.....(6 ) Being physically intimate is a powerful experience for me. It is affirmative.

There you go! The numbers are in *wink* *grin*

 

[Coburn]

"ENFJs are externally focused, introspective, altruistic, positive and have excellent people skills. They place utmost importance on helping others grow. They are warm and have a natural desire to be supportive and encouraging. Being charismatic and possessing excellent language skills, they do well in leadership roles. ENFJs strive to enhance the lives of their human brethren.

EIGHTS are attracted to and appreciate power. They desire to be strong, independent, straightforward, assertive persons, who use their strength and influence to make the world a more just place to live in. They value equity, the equal distribution of power, and show a concern for the underprivileged and disenfranchised. Being your own person, doing your own thing, protecting your own is what life is all about."

I'm not seeing the clash of traits. It just sounds like ENFJ is the healthy end-all version of what an 8 should turn out as. I think as a general most 8's can be pretty altruistic because of their need to see equality and justice served. Also, both types look towards the improvement of other people because they see themselves as all right to begin with, which is helped by the 8's independent and assertive nature. I'd say you've got yourself a healthy mind, if anything.

 

[Limonali]

Thanks for this thread. Everything you wrote so far feels very on-point. I might be anothe ENFJ-8, who always felt very "it's not me" in the world of Enneagram "you should be 2" I REFUSE to be a victim and I also see it as a choice. I totally get the anger at being out of control/controlled by the people who want to "steal your life away" and therefore, later on in life having controlling tendencies myself. My childhood was neglectful, and I was out of control. I agree with that too. In that way, I am very resilient if quiet about it. I have a soft heart and love whole-heartedly, but no one will ever be allowed to control me. Or my love. Especially my love. If they do, or if I see my vision of relationship being threatened, there is a risk I might remove myself to avoid having to put up with someone else's influence too much. Obviously, this isn't always healthy and it is a result of being afraid of being humiliated or too vulnerable (controlled).
I am however high on F and I am not sure how I relate to the wolf pack mentality you wrote about. Keep this thread going, it finally feels like it starts to make sense to me. Yippie for ENFJs-8 *

My love languages are words of affirmation, touch and quality time - high. Acts of service - low. The rest, I don't know ‎

 

[Lishaj0610]

So, I have tested ENFJ over and over. I have also tested equal %'s on Enneagram 8 over and over. I was recently asked "How does this work? How can you be ENFJ and an 8?" This was a fair question, and I intend on answering it, BUT....it is complicated and some of it is too intimate for me to just discuss openly.

My reluctance made me turn to co workers and friends...People who have known me for a year or more. The over all consensus was that 8 really fits. When showed them ENFJ...they also heartily agreed. I asked them ok..logically, this should not work. ~I~ can see it, my co-workers can see it, but it seem that I need help explaining it to someone else.

One very basic comparison that would like to start with is...

ENFJs are externally focused, introspective, altruistic, positive and have excellent people skills. They place utmost importance on helping others grow. They are warm and have a natural desire to be supportive and encouraging. Being charismatic and possessing excellent language skills, they do well in leadership roles. ENFJs strive to enhance the lives of their human brethren.

EIGHTS are attracted to and appreciate power. They desire to be strong, independent, straightforward, assertive persons, who use their strength and influence to make the world a more just place to live in. They value equity, the equal distribution of power, and show a concern for the underprivileged and disenfranchised. Being your own person, doing your own thing, protecting your own is what life is all about.

I could be wrong, but I do not feel that these are mutually exclusive. I think 8 enhances and deepens some of the more primal/warrior-esque tendencies sides of ENFJ.... I understand that I ~should~ be a 2 or 9 or something more ...squishy yummy? But I seem to be the vibrant, bouncing ball of molten lava with a smile on my face....

Are there any ENFJ's out there who have an enneagram number that seems to be contradictory? Or any other ENFJs who can see the correlation between 8 and ENFJ like I can?


Thank you

I'm an ENFJ/Type 8 as well (which is what led me here lol).

 

[HGy]

I'm ENFJ Ennegram type 3.

 

[Maria 8]

Hi, I'm an 8 with both wings, but I believe my 9 one is bigger then the 7, I'm also an ENFJ and I think the behaviours and believes just appear as being better balanced, however if we are going for the unhealthy side we will most likely became really manipulative and use that to control people. By the other hand, if we are going for the healthy side we will motivate people to do whatever they dream of, because we will send part of our determination for them, but I believe the problem is when we need help we don't want to appear weak so we might forget about our well-being and end up not asking for the help we needed.
I am strong, but kind, caring and I want to see you happy, I want to help you be who you want to be, I will be there for you, we are a team and yes I might end up leading it. I'm an 8, an ENFJ, but besides all the typing I'm me.

 

[Phil]

Hi, I'm an 8 with both wings, but I believe my 9 one is bigger then the 7, I'm also an ENFJ and I think the behaviours and believes just appear as being better balanced, however if we are going for the unhealthy side we will most likely became really manipulative and use that to control people. By the other hand, if we are going for the healthy side we will motivate people to do whatever they dream of, because we will send part of our determination for them, but I believe the problem is when we need help we don't want to appear weak so we might forget about our well-being and end up not asking for the help we needed.
I am strong, but kind, caring and I want to see you happy, I want to help you be who you want to be, I will be there for you, we are a team and yes I might end up leading it. I'm an 8, an ENFJ, but besides all the typing I'm me.

Oh wow a new member who's ENFJ! Welcome to the forum! I believe you're the third one we have now 😅

 

[Kim E]

I’m an ENFJ, enneagram 8 wing 2 (with high percentages in 3 as well). I’m a college professor (achiever) but I genuinely LOVE to teach. I also love the freedom of having summers off to travel and explore other interests. I’m a life-long learner and volunteering feeds my spirit more than anything.

So, I have tested ENFJ over and over. I have also tested equal %'s on Enneagram 8 over and over. I was recently asked "How does this work? How can you be ENFJ and an 8?" This was a fair question, and I intend on answering it, BUT....it is complicated and some of it is too intimate for me to just discuss openly.

My reluctance made me turn to co workers and friends...People who have known me for a year or more. The over all consensus was that 8 really fits. When showed them ENFJ...they also heartily agreed. I asked them ok..logically, this should not work. ~I~ can see it, my co-workers can see it, but it seem that I need help explaining it to someone else.

One very basic comparison that would like to start with is...

ENFJs are externally focused, introspective, altruistic, positive and have excellent people skills. They place utmost importance on helping others grow. They are warm and have a natural desire to be supportive and encouraging. Being charismatic and possessing excellent language skills, they do well in leadership roles. ENFJs strive to enhance the lives of their human brethren.

EIGHTS are attracted to and appreciate power. They desire to be strong, independent, straightforward, assertive persons, who use their strength and influence to make the world a more just place to live in. They value equity, the equal distribution of power, and show a concern for the underprivileged and disenfranchised. Being your own person, doing your own thing, protecting your own is what life is all about.

I could be wrong, but I do not feel that these are mutually exclusive. I think 8 enhances and deepens some of the more primal/warrior-esque tendencies sides of ENFJ.... I understand that I ~should~ be a 2 or 9 or something more ...squishy yummy? But I seem to be the vibrant, bouncing ball of molten lava with a smile on my face....

Are there any ENFJ's out there who have an enneagram number that seems to be contradictory? Or any other ENFJs who can see the correlation between 8 and ENFJ like I can?


Thank you

 

[moonfairy11]

im aware this was posted nearly 11 years ago, but as a lifelong ENFJ who has recently discovered they're type 8, this makes perfect sense. someone in the comment thread said they are also this combination of personality types, and they themselves are a college professor (equal parts achiever + protector/teacher), which is what I am currently trying to become, and graduating with my BA next month. with ENFJ, the type 8 comes out of being rejected or neglected through out childhood, and wanting to find control in their lives through power. for ENFJs, this can manifest through an obsession with the power of knowledge - I myself love critical theory and philosophy, which is what I went to school for. our need to acquire all knowledge along with our love to fight (verbally) as 8s make us the perfect candidate for academic debaters. I'm a cancer sun and cancer moon, so this whole "enneagram type 8s are raging sociopaths who are completely apathetic" is, no offense, B.S. and more empathetic ENFJ 8s need to rise!!!