Personality Cafe banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I noticed there isn't much detailed and nuanced material on personal growth and the respective enneatypes. This is troublesome as introspection and discovery seem somewhat empty without some direction or a thorough and dedicated discussion on how to grow as individuals with enneatype in mind.

Does anyone have any book, thread or post recommendations on personal growth and the types? Maybe we can get a sticky compilation?

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
I have found a guide that allows you to maximize personal achievement.



Hope it helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cir

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have found a guide that allows you to maximize personal achievement.
DEER PROTEIN. My achievement is growing already!

There's a distinction between achievement and personal growth, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,767 Posts
DEER PROTEIN. My achievement is growing already!

There's a distinction between achievement and personal growth, though.
I know, but I had this thing in the back of my mind and I just had to post it somewhere. I couldn't find a better place for it. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
You know, I would be really interested in this as well!

A sticky on this topic would be really Awesome!

I don't know how you get that boat in motion, but I would be interested!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dao

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You know, I would be really interested in this as well!

A sticky on this topic would be really Awesome!

I don't know how you get that boat in motion, but I would be interested!
That is really encouraging, @o0india0o.

I am going to submit a questionnaire in the type-me section soon and when I get my type sorted out I am at least going to write personal growth suggestions beginning with my type. Maybe that will get the ball rolling!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
I noticed there isn't much detailed and nuanced material on personal growth and the respective enneatypes.
What materials have you seen? I wouldn't want to provide suggestions that would overlap with materials that you have decided were insufficient.

This is troublesome as introspection and discovery seem somewhat empty without some direction or a thorough and dedicated discussion on how to grow as individuals with enneatype in mind.
... Wow. That giant sarcastic image reply makes more sense now.

The entire point of introspection is to look into that emptiness. It's not supposed to be dependent on external structures. The point is to undo those external structures you've habitually brought inside yourself.

Whatever, I'm going to get off my high horse now.

Does anyone have any book, thread or post recommendations on personal growth and the types? Maybe we can get a sticky compilation?

Thanks!
Have you tried looking into this sticky? http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/144610-enneagram-reading-list.html

There's a distinction between achievement and personal growth, though.
How so? Could or would you elaborate?

I am purely pulling this out of my ass, so please don't ask me ask me to justify my perception, feel free to discard it... but have you tried looking into "the achiever"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@cir, thanks. I read through all the stickies twice over and browsed some threads and that's all I've done. It would save me much time and trouble to get some recommendations that incorporate substantial personal growth material rather than me selecting a book at random and seeing where it takes me. I appreciate you looking into this.

I disagree that introspection is an intrinsic activity. It's mere navel-gazing when it isn't being applied to growing as a person. It's great knowing my weaknesses except now I don't know how to undo those habits; it would be handy to see some direction on where to go at least with enneatypes in mind. I read up on the cycles but the descriptions about which arrows point where are rather vague. For example, how would a 5 integrate towards 8 and what would that look like? I also believe it was @Hotaru who mentioned she would like to see some more personal experiences discussed on integration and disintegration? I think that lies in a similar vein. I also think in a roundabout way to make certain I've covered all angles and reading about personal growth per type may actually give me another perspective about the types.

Personal growth is about maturing. Achievement is about ego and getting things done whether or not those things are necessary, healthy or contribute to maturation.

Thanks. I did look into the Achiever but I'm not sure. I have other hang-ups that sound similar to a couple other types so I'm certainly going to check out the type-me sections to get it sorted out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
@cir, thanks. I read through all the stickies twice over and browsed some threads and that's all I've done. It would save me much time and trouble to get some recommendations that incorporate substantial personal growth material rather than me selecting a book at random and seeing where it takes me. I appreciate you looking into this.
But. All of those books would lead you to personal growth, in different areas. I have 7/10 of those books, and I think they are all substantial, and the numerous books cover different facets of nuance.

Do you just want a general overview? Than anything by Riso/Hudson or Palmer could work (I like Riso/Hudson more than Palmer). Do you want to first focus on instinctual subtypes? If so, start with Chestnut's book. Do you care about what the vices and virtues mean? Then start with Maitri's Passions book. Do you want the possibility of reading something difficult that would trigger some memories and make you feel like shit? Then try Maitri's Spiritual Dimensions book. Do you want to try to learn more of the Holy Ideas? Then try Almaas's book (I recommend this book a lot, but that's because my personal "specialization" is in the Holy Ideas. Not many people take me up on this offer.)

Is there anything about any of those recommendations that would dissuade you?

I disagree that introspection is an intrinsic activity. It's mere navel-gazing when it isn't being applied to growing as a person.
Some people call it "meditation". People have internal-life area and an external-life area. Introspection tends to lead to internal growth. Growth in any direction is still growth regardless.

It's great knowing my weaknesses except now I don't know how to undo those habits;
The next steps are figuring out why you consider them weaknesses, why you have them, and what inadequacies those weaknesses are overcompensating for.

it would be handy to see some direction on where to go at least with enneatypes in mind. I read up on the cycles but the descriptions about which arrows point where are rather vague. For example, how would a 5 integrate towards 8 and what would that look like?
A five would integrate towards eight when he manages to overcome his fear of being overwhelmed by people. The normal obstacles are that a five doesn't think he has enough time or energy to devote to others (what vice: avarice means), and so they won't. Without the fear of people overwhelming him and getting in his way, he would be able to do things in the "outside world", instead of merely theorizing it.

What would that look like? You'd actually see the five. Outside of his hiding place. Probably doing something that isn't just sitting there recording everything in his head to revisit later.

I also believe it was @Hotaru who mentioned she would like to see some more personal experiences discussed on integration and disintegration? I think that lies in a similar vein. I also think in a roundabout way to make certain I've covered all angles and reading about personal growth per type may actually give me another perspective about the types.
Well, the books are going to be vague and general, because if they get too specific, then people can't relate to it. The forum is filled with personal experiences though, but they may not spell everything out specifically within enneagram terms (I try to, though).

Personal growth is about maturing. Achievement is about ego and getting things done whether or not those things are necessary, healthy or contribute to maturation.
So if I were to equate them to be the same thing, do you picture a venn-diagram situation or "a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares" kind of thing?

Thanks. I did look into the Achiever but I'm not sure. I have other hang-ups that sound similar to a couple other types so I'm certainly going to check out the type-me sections to get it sorted out.
That's normal. We have all nine types within us, so people are supposed to have hang-ups with all of the types to some degree. If you are able to quantify which causes you the most hang-up, then that is your base/native type.

Also, I would also caution such a thing as "unity in multiplicity", so if you are writing your own personal growth stuff, you should keep in mind that people within the type in discussion should be able to relate to you, and people with accesses to external sources can "identify" you. Choosing the wrong type will impede growth because you could be applying the wrong lessons to problems in your life that you didn't have before.

Example: a type nine friend (vice: sloth) is worried about spending too much money (vice: avarice). The lessons of type five wouldn't really work for him because he could never bother himself to do anything, much less spend money. With what I know of his personal financial situation, it's a time-wasting and pointless endeavor to try to overcome greed when his first problem is that he would prefer foregoing meals if ordering pizza is too much effort.

Growth is a forever life-long process. Being able to record your growth, the internal lessons you've learned (what you previously thought, what the misconception turned out to be, the solution to this confusion) at any stage of the process will be useful for people who are also at those stages of the process. Not everyone will or can understand or relate to the lessons found at the extremities.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@cir, I will check out those books you mentioned.

I do believe introspection may lead to growth but in other cases discovering what my weaknesses are has me scratching my head about what to do with them. I know what they are and why I have them. But that's why people seek help. They have a problem and they go to therapy or read articles that provide constructive solutions because the solution isn't innate knowledge. It's like no matter how much someone meditates on an unhealthy diet they will never discover within themselves anything about recommended protein intake and so on because those are concepts gained externally. But maybe meditation is a poor example because the philosophies that are associated with meditation also tend to have help guides like the Eightfold Path and a whole corpus of material on how to fix personal hang-ups on which to meditate. (And maybe that's where I should be looking instead!)

Regarding personal growth and achievement, I hesitate to make categorical syllogisms. I suppose some achievements can assist in personal growth but many achievements don't. Earning a good grade helps me be a better student but not a better person, whereas overcoming personal weaknesses could be an achievement I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
@cir, I will check out those books you mentioned.
If you're anything like the rest of us, you'll eventually end up going through most of those books for one reason or another, at some time or later. I don't think you can go wrong starting general with Riso/Hudson or Palmer and then picking up more specialized books as you go along. Most books will be flawed/deficient in some way, so reading through many different sources will "smooth"/"average" things out. Being able to figure out how/what/why is a sign of personal growth.

Otherwise, saying that "you want personal growth" would be like saying, "I want to get smarter. What should I major in?" I mean... how can anyone really answer that?

I do believe introspection may lead to growth but in other cases discovering what my weaknesses are has me scratching my head about what to do with them. I know what they are and why I have them. But that's why people seek help. They have a problem and they go to therapy or read articles that provide constructive solutions because the solution isn't innate knowledge. It's like no matter how much someone meditates on an unhealthy diet they will never discover within themselves anything about recommended protein intake and so on because those are concepts gained externally.
Sometimes people get epiphanies or a "light bulb goes off" moments. Like people may discover or realize that they have an unhealthy diet, and they should go do something about it. It's one thing to discover a problem exists, another to find the solution, and another to actually implement it.

Meditation/introspection isn't meant to be a "one-size fit all" solution, but keeping track of which parts are internal and which parts are external is important. So people don't go doing silly things like thinking introspection will give them the perfect body without them needing to adjust their diet or physical activity.

But maybe meditation is a poor example because the philosophies that are associated with meditation also tend to have help guides like the Eightfold Path and a whole corpus of material on how to fix personal hang-ups on which to meditate. (And maybe that's where I should be looking instead!)

Regarding personal growth and achievement, I hesitate to make categorical syllogisms. I suppose some achievements can assist in personal growth but many achievements don't. Earning a good grade helps me be a better student but not a better person, whereas overcoming personal weaknesses could be an achievement I guess.
Yup. Pretty much what I was going for.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top