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Discussion Starter #1
I took a enneagram test (my first time hearing about it after coming on this forum) and I tested as a 4.

Upon first glance, I read the title "Romantics" and felt kind of cheesy and good. However, as I read the description I thought it was pretty accurate, and most of all... sad! I feel like it's a curse to be a type 4!

A couple of things that really bother me about the description because it's true for me "Fours often report that they feel they are missing something in themselves, although they may have difficulty identifying exactly what that “something” is." <-- I HATE this, but it's true.

" If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are." <-- this is sooooo embarassing, but so true.... I hate this about myself. I think when this happens, I become almost narcissistic in insisting how unique I am. It's not so much that I believe I'm the bestest awesomeness thing in the world, but it's more like I don't think I'm special at all but I lie to myself? I'm ashamed.

"Unfortunately, his commitment to practicing fell far short of his fantasized self-image, and he was often embarrassed when people asked him to play for them. His actual abilities, while not poor, became sources of shame." <--- dead on.

"Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders." <--- So yeah.. apparently we're the suicidal type :crazy:

Oh wow, that was such a depressing read... does anybody else think it's a curse to be a type 4? I mean, the bads seem to outweigh the goods. WHY!?!? *bashes head against wall*

It's no wonder when people get deeply involved with me, they end up running away. I mean who would hang around somebody like that? I don't even know that I would :sad:
 

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It doesn't feel like much of a prize, does it? I'm a 4 too, and the description is disgustingly accurate. I actually think not wanting to be a 4 is a trait of a 4. It's not unique enough or something. Personally, when I found out I was a 4 I was kind of ticked because I don't like the number - it's too common and not aesthetically pleasing. Upon research, I realized those thoughts actually confirmed my fourness.

You have to remember that the Enneagram focuses on the flaws of the types - I read most of the descriptions and a few other level 9 types were said to result in suicide.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh I didn't know that Enneagrams focus on the negatives LOL Okay, that helps a bit. Still though, blaaaaaaaaah!!!! I would rather be the workaholic who never has time for somebody else and hide away in a cave, although I know I'm not like that.. but atleast then I would get something done :crazy:
 

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It all depends on how you look at it. Someone like you describe is probably a 1 (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not that well versed in the Enneagram) and would get done a lot of physical tasks or things for other people. Through the views of our modern society, ones look much more accomplished than fours on the surface.

But a trait unique to fours is our ability to process our emotions and accept ourselves in our raw form no matter how unsightly it may be. Other types might be hiding behind a façade and not even realize it themselves. Through processing our emotions, healthy fours can reach superior emotional heights and truly understand ourselves and our motivations. So in that sense, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we do get stuff done but it just might not look like to others.

If what I've said actually makes sense, I hope it helps you think of being a four as less of a curse. xD
 

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I am a 4w3 (Individualist/Achiever combination)

Of added note, I am Pisces and INFJ (supposedly)

" If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are."
This happened, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I went 'gothy' in high school and I've never really snapped out of it

But lately I've realized that cheesy life lesson that it's okay to be yourself

I find those who dislike me simply for being myself aren't worthy of my respect in return

I know I'm not hurting anyone

My individuality is power
 

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#4 ... the individualist ... the artist ... hmm you sure you are an INFJ and not INFP? sounds like something an INFP might struggle with and many a people mis-test between the two MBTI types

for INFJs it is common to test type 1 the perfectionist due to our dominant unifying Ni, type 2 the servant due to our Fe that makes us want to conform and please people as times, type 5 the thinker due to our tertiary Ti, and also type 9 the peacemaker which is like combination of Ni and Fe and Ti to some extent ... type 4 really sounds like INFP-ish kind of thing
 

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#4 ... the individualist ... the artist ... hmm you sure you are an INFJ and not INFP? sounds like something an INFP might struggle with and many a people mis-test between the two MBTI types

for INFJs it is common to test type 1 the perfectionist due to our dominant unifying Ni, type 2 the servant due to our Fe that makes us want to conform and please people as times, type 5 the thinker due to our tertiary Ti, and also type 9 the peacemaker which is like combination of Ni and Fe and Ti to some extent ... type 4 really sounds like INFP-ish kind of thing
The mixup here is completely understandable. Enneagram doesn't correspond directly to Jung types or MBTI. It speaks very much in terms of behavior but says little about cognitive processes and motivation.

INFJ is not a person - it is a list of cognitive preferences. I'm an IT professional working in supercomputing, but I'm also a writer, an artist, a roller skater and a father. Where is that on the Enneagram? Answer: It doesn't exist.

I test as Enneagram 4, but I take it with a huge grain of salt. Type is all about cognitive functions and the directionality of the functions in an INFJ are quite different than in an INFP. Behavior is just behavior - type is cognition.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't understand the MBTI system entirely. I don't mind not being an INFJ if it meant life would suck less, yes I wouldn't mind that. I tested as an INFJ on a consistent basis though? So I'm not sure, maybe I could be a P.. but if I was being honest with myself.. I'm a pretty judgemental person...
 
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The mixup here is completely understandable. Enneagram doesn't correspond directly to Jung types or MBTI. It speaks very much in terms of behavior but says little about cognitive processes and motivation.

INFJ is not a person - it is a list of cognitive preferences. I'm an IT professional working in supercomputing, but I'm also a writer, an artist, a roller skater and a father. Where is that on the Enneagram? Answer: It doesn't exist.

I test as Enneagram 4, but I take it with a huge grain of salt. Type is all about cognitive functions and the directionality of the functions in an INFJ are quite different than in an INFP. Behavior is just behavior - type is cognition.
I am not saying it is impossible for INFJ to test type 4 but if I tested 4 I would be somewhat suspicious of myself being an INFJ and go an extra mile to confirm it. All I am trying to relay here.

Enneagram by itself does not exist but the qualities it describes exist, they are real within the person who is experiencing them as has been described in the original post.

btw are you sure you are an INFJ and not an INTP? :p ... i already had a debate with one of the INTPs about how yes verbal labels for things don't really exist, but that we invent them in order to communicate with each other, nevertheless those objects and concepts we label with words do exist in reality
 

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Enneagram by itself does not exist but the qualities it describes exist, they are real within the person who is experiencing them as has been described in the original post.
I agree with that. It also pertains to the way that Jungian types are usually presented which is as a series of profiles. These can serve as a kind of useful shorthand - but the meat of the matter is cognition.

btw are you sure you are an INFJ and not an INTP? :p ... i already had a debate with one of the INTPs about how yes verbal labels for things don't really exist, but that we invent them in order to communicate with each other, nevertheless those objects and concepts we label with words do exist in reality
I have strongly developed Ti but real NTs can usually out me pretty quickly. They see through my habit of filtering Ti through Fe. They can spot it almost instantly. All attempts on my part to join their ranks have been rejected on the basis of me being too squishy in the head and too soft in the heart.

Well, I hope to be soft in the heart. Life stinks if you can't love and be loved.
 

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I don't really find it all that depressing. I think it's stating the obvious. I should probably get over it. It depends on the day. Like right now... it's like... why do I have to be me? I'm from another freaking dimension half the time. I get people... because I'm out of the realm of humanity. I don't want to be the same, but I don't want to be so ... very odd...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I retook the mypersonality.info quiz and here's the results:



So I guess I'm pretty much split between the J and P? I've gotten a different percentage scale before too where the J was heavier. I think over the years I've just been alot less J because I was pretty unhappy being J. I judged people so heavily in my younger years and blah.. bad times.

I wonder if I'm slowly developing into an INFP =)
 

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but if I was being honest with myself.. I'm a pretty judgemental person...
All "feelers" have the potential to be "judgemental" because Feeling is a judging function. But that is not really the same thing as what J and P mean in a lineup of Jungian functions like INFJ.

J and P have to do with the directionality of the cognitive functions - and the hemispheric division of labor in the brain.

MBTI Brain Types | Lenore Thomson Bentz

The J in INFJ doesn't mean you are a judgmental person. It means you have the cognitive preferences of Ni-Fe-Ti-Se --- that lineup places our leading functions in the left hemisphere of the brain which predisposes us to desire closure. That's all it means.

Think about how others relate to you. Here's a shorthand for the Introverted Intuitives

INFP: Soft on the inside / Soft on the outside
INFJ: Soft on the inside / Firm on the outside
INTP: Firm on the inside / Soft on the outside
INTJ: Firm on the inside / Firm on the outside
 
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Discussion Starter #16
All "feelers" have the potential to be "judgemental" because Feeling is a judging function. But that is not really the same thing as what J and P mean in a lineup of Jungian functions like INFJ.

J and P have to do with the directionality of the cognitive functions - and the hemispheric division of labor in the brain.

MBTI Brain Types | Lenore Thomson Bentz

The J in INFJ doesn't mean you are a judgmental person. It means you have the cognitive preferences of Ni-Fe-Ti-Se --- that lineup places our leading functions in the left hemisphere of the brain which predisposes us to desire closure. That's all it means.

Think about how others relate to you. Here's a shorthand for the Introverted Intuitives

INFP: Soft on the inside / Soft on the outside
INFJ: Soft on the inside / Firm on the outside
INTP: Firm on the inside / Soft on the outside
INTJ: Firm on the inside / Firm on the outside
You've made me realize I have NO idea what I'm doing here on an MBTI board LOL Wow, I have alot of reading to do.

I know that I can appear really tough on the outside and be soft on the inside. I was VERY tough on the outside throughout highschool, but lately my college experience has been different. I think I've been pretty soft on the outside and let my guard down. So does that mean I've become an INFP?

My enneagram results were from the link provided on this forum. I took another one from this other website called 9types and this is what I got:

"RHETI Enneagram Type Indicator Results

Your highest score will indicate you basic type, or it will be among the top 2-3 scores. You have answered all the questions -- terrific! "

Type 1: 2
Type 2: 5
Type 3: 3
Type 4: 6
Type 5: 5
Type 6: 6
Type 7: 3
Type 8: 2
Type 9: 4

PS: I'm gonna go do some MBTI reading, thanks for the links =)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
its not a curse, its very good to be a 4, oh yeah we are unique
I don't feel so bad knowing that I'm not the only one. Runescribe's right up there lol and so are you.

So, yay. That's not so terrible. If we're all gonna mope around, might as well mope together.

Have you noticed you've been thanked 106 x in 106 posts?!

Edit: CRAP! Apparently I'm dyslexic too Nevermind LOL 160 thanks in 106 posts >_<
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I don't really find it all that depressing. I think it's stating the obvious. I should probably get over it. It depends on the day. Like right now... it's like... why do I have to be me? I'm from another freaking dimension half the time. I get people... because I'm out of the realm of humanity. I don't want to be the same, but I don't want to be so ... very odd...
LOL my best friend (INTJ) wrote a poem about me... and how I was from a different time/age? Flattering.

*HUUUUUGS*

*puts tin foils on our heads*

^--- do people still do that? Write between asterisks, pretending that we're occupying the same space IRL :crazy:
 

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#4 ... the individualist ... the artist ... hmm you sure you are an INFJ and not INFP? sounds like something an INFP might struggle with and many a people mis-test between the two MBTI types

for INFJs it is common to test type 1 the perfectionist due to our dominant unifying Ni, type 2 the servant due to our Fe that makes us want to conform and please people as times, type 5 the thinker due to our tertiary Ti, and also type 9 the peacemaker which is like combination of Ni and Fe and Ti to some extent ... type 4 really sounds like INFP-ish kind of thing
From what i hear it is fairly common for both INFJs, ISFPs INFPs to be type 4s. It is also somewhat common for ENFPs too. I don't think MBTI can be lined up directly with the Enneagram, and that there are lots of combinations. type 4 is very idealistic and is connected to both type 4 and type 1 and type 4 is said to line up with Ni in the books I've read. I can see how the other types fit as you described them but I personally wouldn't eliminate 4 from that.
 
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