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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all!
I took the test once. Got these results. Sorry for crappy phone picture. Too lazy to get a screenshot.

Anyways, I have just gone with type 8 as that was the highest score. However, all four ( 8, 5, 4, 1) of these scored over 90 for me which left me scratching my head. I have no clue what to do with the results or how to decipher them. Help?
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I’ll be one of those and just say it—just learn the theory. Enneagram is probably one of the easiest to figure out. What is your core fear and desire? Figure that out and see which one matches. Find your core before you venture to wings and tritypes. You can use this result to narrow your options down, if you want, but there are really only 9 so you might as well just learn them.

The Riso-Hudson book on Enneagram is a good resource. It also has some helpful mini-tests in it that help some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I’ll be one of those and just say it—just learn the theory. Enneagram is probably one of the easiest to figure out. What is your core fear and desire? Figure that out and see which one matches. Find your core before you venture to wings and tritypes. You can use this result to narrow your options down, if you want, but there are really only 9 so you might as well just learn them.
Meh, maybe I’m not committing enough time to learn all the little details but I still don’t understand how you can get 4 of 9. In what sense does that hold any validity? “Oh here’s a test, you get four results and then get to pick which one you really are.”? What…

To clarify, I would like go figure out which one I am but all four hold weight. So I suppose the real question here is: why would someone get four results when you’re only supposed to be one? It makes no sense.
 

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Meh, maybe I’m not committing enough time to learn all the little details but I still don’t understand how you can get 4 of 9. In what sense does that hold any validity? “Oh here’s a test, you get four results and then get to pick which one you really are.”? What…

To clarify, I would like go figure out which one I am but all four hold weight. So I suppose the real question here is: why would someone get four results when you’re only supposed to be one? It makes no sense.
I don’t see the point in slapping a label on yourself without taking a little time to make sure it’s even right.

It makes no sense to completely rely on these tests in the first place anyway. I’m not sure why you’re confused about it giving you four options. Even some MBTI tests do this. It’s trying to narrow down (which is the most use you can get out of these online tests). It’s likely that your answers more or less ticked boxes for those four enneagram types the most and that is why none stood out as significantly more pronounced, and now it’s your turn to figure out which one’s which. It’s like taking a cognitive functions test where they give you your three possible MBTI types in the end based on their calculation.

My suggestion is to take some time to learn the theory. It’s even simpler than MBTI and mostly only require honesty. Focus on core fears and desires because they’re the point of enneagram.
 
What I mean by that is—if I relied completely on online enneagram tests, I’m certain to get a high score for core 1 because of certain traits I have (such as being a perfectionist and responsible, which likely comes from being XXTJ than anything else). However, looking at the theory behind, 1s care about corruption the most, at their core. Meanwhile, I could really care less about that and I’ve never once dreamt to be a good, perfect person. On the contrary, I know that to be impossible and there are things I care about more in life than how good I am or how evil I am. Despite displaying typical 1-like behaviour and traits, I just cannot relate to 1’s core fears and desires—aka the point of enneagram.


At the very least, read the core motivations of each enneagram type. This is less about your behaviour and more about what drives it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
None of these except the Big 5 are all that scientific, sure. I don’t think we’re on the same page. I’m not looking for affirmation or strict answers via a test that is subject to self confirmation bias. I’m looking for an explanation of why it is possible to get multiple results from a psychological perspective. What is the difference between someone who gets a type 8 all by itself vs someone who gets four separate types all within the same “range”. Why do some people get a very clear number while others can get multiple?

Here’s my attempt at simplifying the question and not being so abstract about it.
What is getting multiple types indicative of? Personality malleability? High openness? A lack of identity? A personality disorder? Etc.

What are the reasons someone would get four separate types as opposed to 1 clear cut, obvious type?

This isn’t about the tests. It’s about what the results imply about a person.
 

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The E is not simple at all btw. Probably the most complex and encompassing, it'll take years to really understand what is being 'described'. I know this bc I've been an E student for almost 20 years now. I learn new things everyday.

As far as your distribution of test results, you'll have to consider that these questionnaires often address basic ideas, like herding cattle into a chute. At some point you're on you own to unpack why this caused that. I like the first post from Miharu.... you're just getting started. But I will take a swag at it and say..... suppose 8, code (rule) driven, there's your 1 stuff. Heightened emotional response at 4 (reactive), check. 5 bc you're plotting, and much less 2 bc you're avoiding the idea of being kind (vulnerable). Eh it's ideas... hai.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The E is not simple at all btw. Probably the most complex and encompassing, it'll take years to really understand what is being 'described'. I know this bc I've been an E student for almost 20 years now. I learn new things everyday.

As far as your distribution of test results, you'll have to consider that these questionnaires often address basic ideas, like herding cattle into a chute. At some point you're on you own to unpack why this caused that. I like the first post from Miharu.... you're just getting started. But I will take a swag at it and say..... suppose 8, code (rule) driven, there's your 1 stuff. Heightened emotional response at 4, check. 5 bc you're plotting and much less 2 bc you're avoiding the idea of being kind (vulnerable). Eh it's ideas... hai.
ahhh here we go! This is the kind of stuff I was curious about. I still have questions about the implications but I’ll let those rest. Seems like someone would deserve to get paid for that level of analysis 😂

thanks guys!
 

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Meh, maybe I’m not committing enough time to learn all the little details but I still don’t understand how you can get 4 of 9. In what sense does that hold any validity? “Oh here’s a test, you get four results and then get to pick which one you really are.”? What…

To clarify, I would like go figure out which one I am but all four hold weight. So I suppose the real question here is: why would someone get four results when you’re only supposed to be one? It makes no sense.
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Somewhere in here, it also says that to identify with any type at all means we are not healthy. The Enneagram covers unhealthy manifestations of types, though, so this should be common sense probably...since it means you're relating to unhealthy behaviors.

Full book here:

Save it in case I reorganize and break the link later.
 

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The E is not simple at all btw. Probably the most complex and encompassing, it'll take years to really understand what is being 'described'. I know this bc I've been an E student for almost 20 years now. I learn new things everyday.

As far as your distribution of test results, you'll have to consider that these questionnaires often address basic ideas, like herding cattle into a chute. At some point you're on you own to unpack why this caused that. I like the first post from Miharu.... you're just getting started. But I will take a swag at it and say..... suppose 8, code (rule) driven, there's your 1 stuff. Heightened emotional response at 4 (reactive), check. 5 bc you're plotting, and much less 2 bc you're avoiding the idea of being kind (vulnerable). Eh it's ideas... hai.
Eh, varies. I got past anything E related within like 2-3 years. None of them match me anymore.
 

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Enneagram is probably one of the easiest to figure out.
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The Riso-Hudson book on Enneagram is a good resource. It also has some helpful mini-tests in it that help some.
=?
If you know this book, I'm surprised you're saying this. Somewhere in there, it also says that to identify with any type at all means we are not healthy. The Enneagram covers unhealthy manifestations of types, though, so this should be common sense probably...since it means you're relating to unhealthy behaviors. It's not always the easiest to figure out: A) if you're not unhealthy, B) if Enneagram doesn't cover your things, C) if you lack self-awareness in the less healthy things in yourself, D) if you have a disorder affecting the way your personality seems, E) several others
 

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=?

If you know this book, I'm surprised you're saying this. Somewhere in there, it also says that to identify with any type at all means we are not healthy. The Enneagram covers unhealthy manifestations of types, though, so this should be common sense probably...since it means you're relating to unhealthy behaviors. It's not always the easiest to figure out: A) if you're not unhealthy, B) if Enneagram doesn't cover your things, C) if you lack self-awareness in the less healthy things in yourself, D) if you have a disorder affecting the way your personality seems, E) several others
That book explains each type well, and since OP seems to like using tests to figure their type out and the book has handy tests that help narrow down possible types, I suggested it as a good resource. (Though I will never really suggest relying on only tests, which I think I already pointed out.)

Actually, it illustrates both healthy and unhealthy behaviours—it even has examples depending on exactly how healthy/unhealthy an individual of each type is. There are also challenges to each type’s growth clearly laid out as well as suggestions for improvement. It’s quite good at explaining those things—at highlighting disintegration and integration. I didn’t think these things were bad at all, but rather helpful in figuring one’s type out. If anything, their sections on wings are the ones that are lacking.

Whether or not you can be honest with yourself enough to figure your own type out is another matter entirely—plus, that won’t affect only enneagram, but probably most other personality theories. If the problem is exactly that, it’s probably best not to even attempt typing yourself.
 

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That book explains each type well, and since OP seems to like using tests to figure their type out and the book has handy tests that help narrow down possible types, I suggested it as a good resource. (Though I will never really suggest relying on only tests, which I think I already pointed out.)
Yeah, it's a solid resource. Well, as solid as a typology resource can be.

Actually, it illustrates both healthy and unhealthy behaviours—it even has examples depending on exactly how healthy/unhealthy an individual of each type is. There are also challenges to each type’s growth clearly laid out as well as suggestions for improvement. It’s quite good at explaining those things—at highlighting disintegration and integration. I didn’t think these things were bad at all, but rather helpful in figuring one’s type out. If anything, their sections on wings are the ones that are lacking.
Materials covering positives are scarce and often exaggerated to the point of being unrealistic, or even too grandiose. Some of the system's methods for growth are also incredibly questionable, especially those conflicting with existing psychological therapy methods and definitions of what constitutes as healthy. For instance, E9 is advised to approach things in a way that would actually result in aggression rather than assertiveness.

Whether or not you can be honest with yourself enough to figure your own type out is another matter entirely—plus, that won’t affect only enneagram, but probably most other personality theories. If the problem is exactly that, it’s probably best not to even attempt typing yourself.
I find it sad, albeit interesting in the sense of seeing the way human minds work, when people are so firm on their belief in typology systems that they'd sooner question someone's integrity/character, logic, any and everything about an individual, than listen to someone say the system is flawed and somehow they don't fit well into it. If it were based on scientific fact, I could see it. Hell, at least religion manipulates people into being afraid not to believe, and to fear their beliefs being shaken. The fact that so many people do this with merely theoretical abstract models that even the founders and authors never claimed were accurate, and have claimed were incomplete works, however, is truly perplexing to me. I crave to understand why such a belief is so sacred, for a lack of better words, to some people. To me, this psychological phenomenon is much more interesting than type theory.
 

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I find it sad, albeit interesting in the sense of seeing the way human minds work, when people are so firm on their belief in typology systems that they'd sooner question someone's integrity/character, logic, any and everything about an individual, than listen to someone say the system is flawed and somehow they don't fit well into it. If it were based on scientific fact, I could see it. Hell, at least religion manipulates people into being afraid not to believe, and to fear their beliefs being shaken. The fact that so many people do this with merely theoretical abstract models that even the founders and authors never claimed were accurate, and have claimed were incomplete works, however, is truly perplexing to me. I crave to understand why such a belief is so sacred, for a lack of better words, to some people. To me, this psychological phenomenon is much more interesting than type theory.
It’s very easy to get boxed in. Everything becomes explained by cognitive functions, almost as if that’s it—that’s the pinnacle of human psychology lol when they can’t even agree on one definition of most things. Most discussions here on theory is almost always that way. It’s easy to forget it’s a theory.

It’s very easy to find posts here attempting to explain everything going wrong with their lives or selves using typology. I try to refrain from using MBTI or other typology systems as much as possible when giving advice to people here, but it’s too often they won’t be interested in actual, practical advice and would skip those in favour of whoever is willing to break down things in cognitive functions speak and whatever other method. It’s strange. Then you see some change their types weekly and rather than using typology to broaden their understanding of fellow humans and themselves, they’re limiting it instead.

I find typology, no matter what kind, a fun past-time, nothing more.
 

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It’s very easy to get boxed in. Everything becomes explained by cognitive functions, almost as if that’s it—that’s the pinnacle of human psychology lol when they can’t even agree on one definition of most things. Most discussions here on theory is almost always that way. It’s easy to forget it’s a theory.

It’s very easy to find posts here attempting to explain everything going wrong with their lives or selves using typology. I try to refrain from using MBTI or other typology systems as much as possible when giving advice to people here, but it’s too often they won’t be interested in actual, practical advice and would skip those in favour of whoever is willing to break down things in cognitive functions speak and whatever other method. It’s strange. Then you see some change their types weekly and rather than using typology to broaden their understanding of fellow humans and themselves, they’re limiting it instead.

I find typology, no matter what kind, a fun past-time, nothing more.
Well said. At this point, most of my own interest is in analyzing concepts such as these in the typology community. It's an interesting dynamic, almost like religion without the manipulative reward/punishment conditioning, etc. I find things such as confirmation bias, and the fact that emotional/group affiliation is more impactful than facts, quite annoying...which is why I'd like to understand it more, and be able to influence others in healthier directions more effectively.
 

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Well said. At this point, most of my own interest is in analyzing concepts such as these in the typology community. It's an interesting dynamic, almost like religion without the manipulative reward/punishment conditioning, etc. I find things such as confirmation bias, and the fact that emotional/group affiliation is more impactful than facts, quite annoying...which is why I'd like to understand it more, and be able to influence others in healthier directions more effectively.
Great! That’s a far better use of one’s time beyond studying for fun.
 

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458 archetype description

458 – The Scholar Archetype (458, 485, 548, 584, 845, 854)
Basic fears: Being brainwashed, being controlled and manipulated, being dependent on untrusted/hated people, being “ordinary”, not having independent thinking, ignorance, not being listened to, underestimation, inadequacy, loss of free expression /censoring.
4-core (458, 485): Knowledgeable and direct 4. This is the most analytical and tough-minded 4. This 4 tends to be intellectual with strong opinions. This 4 wants to know what makes people tick. This 4 will focus on gathering unique information to feel empowered. The core fears are of being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, abandoned, intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, not existing, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, and being at the mercy of injustice. 5-core (548/584): Direct and intuitive 5. This is the most intense and eccentric 5. Scholarly, this is the ‘Professor’. This 5 can be melancholic one moment and then detached the next. This 5 is the emotional and creative 5, as well as the most outspoken, opinionated and non-conforming. The core fears are of intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, not existing, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, at the mercy of injustice, inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, and being abandoned.
8-core (845/854): Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. This is the most sensitive and withdrawn 8, especially if introverted, self-preserving and/or with the 9 wing. This 8 can be mistaken for a 5 or 4. This is the creative and intellectual 8 that is secretly shy and emotional. The core fears are of weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, being at the mercy of injustice, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, being abandoned, intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, and not existing.
Darkest archetype - 458. Subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. This tritype might seem peculiarly subject to flux, and thus may vary greatly, or may have many different real selves. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Others are always surprised when the aggressive 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet. Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them. Intellectual narcissist. Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions. Opinionated and stubborn, can even considered close-minded/ignorant by some people although not in the usual sense of the word. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468. Passive/chill on the outside but extremely active and intense on the inside. Has a constant war with themselves in their own minds.
Blunt type, doubled by the 5′s somewhat impartial observational nature and the 8′s confrontational one, this archetype can come off “headstrong”. Many will call them stubborn or even ignorant but they will probably never admit they're ignorant/close-minded. By most definitions of ignorant they can be so sometimes, but definitely not the "Brainwashed" type of ignorant that is always stuck in the traditional ways of doing things, rather, they are stuck in their own unconventional, non-conformist and sometimes controversial ways of doing things. They will be arrogant in their convictions and unopen to suggestions more in the sense of “I’ve thought about this longer than you and even if you could have a point, I still thought about it longer and I’m absolutely not going to take the opinion of someone who didn’t ruminate on it as long or longer than me! I stand my ground!”. Though, they can also quite intelligent and able to lead when necessary because, while arrogant and egoistic, they can sometimes come to reasonable conclusions. Somewhat dark, prone to emotional turbulence and disturbance. Intense combo, especially if Sx is the primary instinct. Rich fantasy life. Sometimes may become annoyed with how “inactive” someone seems to be in their situation while they themselves, due to 5 and 4 are quite withdrawn and ruminate rather than act to solve a problem in a hypocrisy that flies over their head, though spotting ways to solve someone else’s problems can be easy for them and they give fairly sound advice. Can be somewhat misanthropic or bitter but to them they’re being realistic, desires to be understood but withdraws from attempts to understand. They are mostly prone to mood swings/mental illness, arrogance, egocentrism, hypocrisy, violence and stubbornness/headstrongness. They are mostly sure of themselves, they are rarely insecure and have very few insecurities and doubts. Even if some people have problems with too much insecurities, this archetype literally has problems because they're TOO sure of themselves. This archetype can vary between extremely subjective to extremely objective and detached.
Interest: – knowing what makes people tick – building mental maps about this – problem solving
Character: – more introverted, but definitely not shy – intelligent – headstrong – aggressive/violent – confrontational – both attached and detached – introspective – strategic – emotionally unstable – dark – intense – knowledgeable – direct – esoteric – cynical – opinionated – original – reserved – confidence – focused – complex – can be moody/melancholic – direct – get angry/sad suddenly – guarded – analytic – wise – direct – blunt – factual – truth teller – reactive – independent – sensitive – fantasizing – dynamic – critical of self and others – contradictory – strong – vulnerable – changeable, fluctuating – temperamental – egocentric – defiant
Blind spot: – egoism/narcissism – attachment to the internal map of what they’ve found makes you blind to new information -> fixed in their worldview and ideas – “a lot of love and a lot of hate” – They need to realize that their need to overanalyze and ‘know’ what they think and feel keeps them from truly being. Studying gives you information, not wisdom. True knowing comes from connecting to your higher self and authentically being. – Due to the fact that all three trifixes are centered on self, this tritype is very self-centered and egocentric, even arrogant but not in the “show off” sense of the word, that would be the 358 archetype. 358 = I am the best at everything, treat me like a king; 458 = I am a special snowflake; I am the most important, treat me like a king. The 458 thinks they are more important than they are and they want to be treated like a special snowflake. The 358 thinks they are the best at everything and they want to be praised.
This is one of the most intense archetypes along with the 468. The reason for that is because of the intensity of all three trifixes, the 4 that makes a tragedy out of everything and the 8 that adds a very aggressive and intense attitude, adding the 5 introspective, wise and deep attitude, you get a very active type on their inside, especially when 4 or 5 is in charge.
The 458 can often be mistyped as a 5 but what happens a lot more often is the 548 being mistyped as a 4. The 548 is the most 4-ish 5. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core. Out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
The 468 and 478 (archetypes) are much more active/intense on their outside than 458. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority and will fight for a good authority along with maybe the 368. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities. The 458, 468 and 478 are truth tellers in their own way. You can tell 458 archetype and 468 archetype apart by seeing how reactive they are on the outside. When, for example, in class, they see a mistake done by the teacher, the 468 will react on the moment being confrontational while the 458 might take some time planning what they should say. I am a 548 and I always need time to think what to say in an argument which kind of sucks since a lot of the times I find things I should’ve said a few minutes/hours/even days later while the 468 would be much more of a quick thinker. I am pretty sure Eminem is part of the 468 archetype, his tritype being 684, more exactly, (cp)6w5-8w9-4w3. The 6 in the 468 will be counter-phobic because of the 8 trifix. The 478 will act pretty much more like a 468 than a 458 in the situations I described, they might not need as much time to think as the 458 but the 468 I still a little more reactive than the 478.
I believe this archetype is the most likely to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder (BPD), especially when 4 or 8 is in charge. With 5 in charge it is pretty improbable though.
This archetype is so self-centered and focused on themselves sometimes that they might be amazed by themselves so much that they realize something like “Wait, if only one person, one consciousness (me) is so complex and interesting to analyze, imagine that there are 7 billion people out there that are as complex as they can be, oh my god!!”. That’s why most people say “they crave knowing what makes people “tick””, they are amazed by the human mind/brain and how it works and how it got to one point to another leading to some very interesting conclusions.
As a wise man said, “"If you can bridge that gap between head and heart, that person is especially creative, (...), his books will speak to your head and your heart at the same time, but it's one of the hardest bridges to gap, to be fully in your heart AND fully in your head and have them not cancel one another out, huh? Good intellectual work and good emotional work and have the emotions feed the head and head feed the emotions." (Source:
) I find that the 548 tritype, and to a lesser extent, 584, is completely capable of doing that. They are almost like a living paradox, half 4 and half 5 even though they are like opposites. 4 is attachment 100% and 5 is detachment 100% and this creates a lot of confusion and problems. If you are 548 it’s a bless and a curse, this creates a lot of mental illness-related problems, hate by others due to being so controversial; and confusion. At the same time, you can be one of the most influential people in the world. Basically, work on stability and how others might perceive your work (this archetype often doesn’t think how its actions affect other people) and you’ll be a freaking badass. The other tritype that I can find capable of doing this is the 451 (and to a lesser extent 415), the most 5-ish 4.
MBTI – Enneagram correlations in this archetype: 458/485 – INFP, INFJ 548, 584 – INTJ, INTP 845, 854- ENTJ, ENTP and rarely, INTJ.
5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts. typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4 similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8 flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense
5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary. typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing) similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4 flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive
 

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Eh, varies. I got past anything E related within like 2-3 years. None of them match me anymore.
Well, I wasn't really speaking to the self-identity side of this so much as the circle itself. There's like 7 billion ppl now and we've got to squish them into 9 holes.... there's a lot of nuance sitting on the table.

But we've thread-jacked enough....
 

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Meh, maybe I’m not committing enough time to learn all the little details but I still don’t understand how you can get 4 of 9. In what sense does that hold any validity? “Oh here’s a test, you get four results and then get to pick which one you really are.”? What…

To clarify, I would like go figure out which one I am but all four hold weight. So I suppose the real question here is: why would someone get four results when you’re only supposed to be one? It makes no sense.
I really hate that test. The results are so confusingly displayed. I'd go with another one. Keep in mind the tests are good for narrowing things down. Then you need to learn more about your motivations to figure out your type. ;)
 

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458 archetype description

458 – The Scholar Archetype (458, 485, 548, 584, 845, 854)
Basic fears: Being brainwashed, being controlled and manipulated, being dependent on untrusted/hated people, being “ordinary”, not having independent thinking, ignorance, not being listened to, underestimation, inadequacy, loss of free expression /censoring.
4-core (458, 485): Knowledgeable and direct 4. This is the most analytical and tough-minded 4. This 4 tends to be intellectual with strong opinions. This 4 wants to know what makes people tick. This 4 will focus on gathering unique information to feel empowered. The core fears are of being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, abandoned, intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, not existing, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, and being at the mercy of injustice. 5-core (548/584): Direct and intuitive 5. This is the most intense and eccentric 5. Scholarly, this is the ‘Professor’. This 5 can be melancholic one moment and then detached the next. This 5 is the emotional and creative 5, as well as the most outspoken, opinionated and non-conforming. The core fears are of intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, not existing, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, at the mercy of injustice, inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, and being abandoned.
8-core (845/854): Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. This is the most sensitive and withdrawn 8, especially if introverted, self-preserving and/or with the 9 wing. This 8 can be mistaken for a 5 or 4. This is the creative and intellectual 8 that is secretly shy and emotional. The core fears are of weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, being at the mercy of injustice, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, being abandoned, intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, and not existing.
Darkest archetype - 458. Subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. This tritype might seem peculiarly subject to flux, and thus may vary greatly, or may have many different real selves. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Others are always surprised when the aggressive 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet. Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them. Intellectual narcissist. Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions. Opinionated and stubborn, can even considered close-minded/ignorant by some people although not in the usual sense of the word. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468. Passive/chill on the outside but extremely active and intense on the inside. Has a constant war with themselves in their own minds.
Blunt type, doubled by the 5′s somewhat impartial observational nature and the 8′s confrontational one, this archetype can come off “headstrong”. Many will call them stubborn or even ignorant but they will probably never admit they're ignorant/close-minded. By most definitions of ignorant they can be so sometimes, but definitely not the "Brainwashed" type of ignorant that is always stuck in the traditional ways of doing things, rather, they are stuck in their own unconventional, non-conformist and sometimes controversial ways of doing things. They will be arrogant in their convictions and unopen to suggestions more in the sense of “I’ve thought about this longer than you and even if you could have a point, I still thought about it longer and I’m absolutely not going to take the opinion of someone who didn’t ruminate on it as long or longer than me! I stand my ground!”. Though, they can also quite intelligent and able to lead when necessary because, while arrogant and egoistic, they can sometimes come to reasonable conclusions. Somewhat dark, prone to emotional turbulence and disturbance. Intense combo, especially if Sx is the primary instinct. Rich fantasy life. Sometimes may become annoyed with how “inactive” someone seems to be in their situation while they themselves, due to 5 and 4 are quite withdrawn and ruminate rather than act to solve a problem in a hypocrisy that flies over their head, though spotting ways to solve someone else’s problems can be easy for them and they give fairly sound advice. Can be somewhat misanthropic or bitter but to them they’re being realistic, desires to be understood but withdraws from attempts to understand. They are mostly prone to mood swings/mental illness, arrogance, egocentrism, hypocrisy, violence and stubbornness/headstrongness. They are mostly sure of themselves, they are rarely insecure and have very few insecurities and doubts. Even if some people have problems with too much insecurities, this archetype literally has problems because they're TOO sure of themselves. This archetype can vary between extremely subjective to extremely objective and detached.
Interest: – knowing what makes people tick – building mental maps about this – problem solving
Character: – more introverted, but definitely not shy – intelligent – headstrong – aggressive/violent – confrontational – both attached and detached – introspective – strategic – emotionally unstable – dark – intense – knowledgeable – direct – esoteric – cynical – opinionated – original – reserved – confidence – focused – complex – can be moody/melancholic – direct – get angry/sad suddenly – guarded – analytic – wise – direct – blunt – factual – truth teller – reactive – independent – sensitive – fantasizing – dynamic – critical of self and others – contradictory – strong – vulnerable – changeable, fluctuating – temperamental – egocentric – defiant
Blind spot: – egoism/narcissism – attachment to the internal map of what they’ve found makes you blind to new information -> fixed in their worldview and ideas – “a lot of love and a lot of hate” – They need to realize that their need to overanalyze and ‘know’ what they think and feel keeps them from truly being. Studying gives you information, not wisdom. True knowing comes from connecting to your higher self and authentically being. – Due to the fact that all three trifixes are centered on self, this tritype is very self-centered and egocentric, even arrogant but not in the “show off” sense of the word, that would be the 358 archetype. 358 = I am the best at everything, treat me like a king; 458 = I am a special snowflake; I am the most important, treat me like a king. The 458 thinks they are more important than they are and they want to be treated like a special snowflake. The 358 thinks they are the best at everything and they want to be praised.
This is one of the most intense archetypes along with the 468. The reason for that is because of the intensity of all three trifixes, the 4 that makes a tragedy out of everything and the 8 that adds a very aggressive and intense attitude, adding the 5 introspective, wise and deep attitude, you get a very active type on their inside, especially when 4 or 5 is in charge.
The 458 can often be mistyped as a 5 but what happens a lot more often is the 548 being mistyped as a 4. The 548 is the most 4-ish 5. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core. Out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
The 468 and 478 (archetypes) are much more active/intense on their outside than 458. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority and will fight for a good authority along with maybe the 368. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities. The 458, 468 and 478 are truth tellers in their own way. You can tell 458 archetype and 468 archetype apart by seeing how reactive they are on the outside. When, for example, in class, they see a mistake done by the teacher, the 468 will react on the moment being confrontational while the 458 might take some time planning what they should say. I am a 548 and I always need time to think what to say in an argument which kind of sucks since a lot of the times I find things I should’ve said a few minutes/hours/even days later while the 468 would be much more of a quick thinker. I am pretty sure Eminem is part of the 468 archetype, his tritype being 684, more exactly, (cp)6w5-8w9-4w3. The 6 in the 468 will be counter-phobic because of the 8 trifix. The 478 will act pretty much more like a 468 than a 458 in the situations I described, they might not need as much time to think as the 458 but the 468 I still a little more reactive than the 478.
I believe this archetype is the most likely to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder (BPD), especially when 4 or 8 is in charge. With 5 in charge it is pretty improbable though.
This archetype is so self-centered and focused on themselves sometimes that they might be amazed by themselves so much that they realize something like “Wait, if only one person, one consciousness (me) is so complex and interesting to analyze, imagine that there are 7 billion people out there that are as complex as they can be, oh my god!!”. That’s why most people say “they crave knowing what makes people “tick””, they are amazed by the human mind/brain and how it works and how it got to one point to another leading to some very interesting conclusions.
As a wise man said, “"If you can bridge that gap between head and heart, that person is especially creative, (...), his books will speak to your head and your heart at the same time, but it's one of the hardest bridges to gap, to be fully in your heart AND fully in your head and have them not cancel one another out, huh? Good intellectual work and good emotional work and have the emotions feed the head and head feed the emotions." (Source:
) I find that the 548 tritype, and to a lesser extent, 584, is completely capable of doing that. They are almost like a living paradox, half 4 and half 5 even though they are like opposites. 4 is attachment 100% and 5 is detachment 100% and this creates a lot of confusion and problems. If you are 548 it’s a bless and a curse, this creates a lot of mental illness-related problems, hate by others due to being so controversial; and confusion. At the same time, you can be one of the most influential people in the world. Basically, work on stability and how others might perceive your work (this archetype often doesn’t think how its actions affect other people) and you’ll be a freaking badass. The other tritype that I can find capable of doing this is the 451 (and to a lesser extent 415), the most 5-ish 4.
MBTI – Enneagram correlations in this archetype: 458/485 – INFP, INFJ 548, 584 – INTJ, INTP 845, 854- ENTJ, ENTP and rarely, INTJ.
5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts. typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4 similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8 flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense
5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary. typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing) similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4 flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive

Thanks for posting this. It does resonate with me.
 
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458 archetype description

458 – The Scholar Archetype (458, 485, 548, 584, 845, 854)
Basic fears: Being brainwashed, being controlled and manipulated, being dependent on untrusted/hated people, being “ordinary”, not having independent thinking, ignorance, not being listened to, underestimation, inadequacy, loss of free expression /censoring.
4-core (458, 485): Knowledgeable and direct 4. This is the most analytical and tough-minded 4. This 4 tends to be intellectual with strong opinions. This 4 wants to know what makes people tick. This 4 will focus on gathering unique information to feel empowered. The core fears are of being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, abandoned, intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, not existing, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, and being at the mercy of injustice. 5-core (548/584): Direct and intuitive 5. This is the most intense and eccentric 5. Scholarly, this is the ‘Professor’. This 5 can be melancholic one moment and then detached the next. This 5 is the emotional and creative 5, as well as the most outspoken, opinionated and non-conforming. The core fears are of intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, not existing, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, at the mercy of injustice, inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, and being abandoned.
8-core (845/854): Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. This is the most sensitive and withdrawn 8, especially if introverted, self-preserving and/or with the 9 wing. This 8 can be mistaken for a 5 or 4. This is the creative and intellectual 8 that is secretly shy and emotional. The core fears are of weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, being at the mercy of injustice, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, being abandoned, intrusion, emptiness, ignorance, surplus, contamination, being fully embodied, and not existing.
Darkest archetype - 458. Subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. This tritype might seem peculiarly subject to flux, and thus may vary greatly, or may have many different real selves. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Others are always surprised when the aggressive 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet. Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them. Intellectual narcissist. Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions. Opinionated and stubborn, can even considered close-minded/ignorant by some people although not in the usual sense of the word. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468. Passive/chill on the outside but extremely active and intense on the inside. Has a constant war with themselves in their own minds.
Blunt type, doubled by the 5′s somewhat impartial observational nature and the 8′s confrontational one, this archetype can come off “headstrong”. Many will call them stubborn or even ignorant but they will probably never admit they're ignorant/close-minded. By most definitions of ignorant they can be so sometimes, but definitely not the "Brainwashed" type of ignorant that is always stuck in the traditional ways of doing things, rather, they are stuck in their own unconventional, non-conformist and sometimes controversial ways of doing things. They will be arrogant in their convictions and unopen to suggestions more in the sense of “I’ve thought about this longer than you and even if you could have a point, I still thought about it longer and I’m absolutely not going to take the opinion of someone who didn’t ruminate on it as long or longer than me! I stand my ground!”. Though, they can also quite intelligent and able to lead when necessary because, while arrogant and egoistic, they can sometimes come to reasonable conclusions. Somewhat dark, prone to emotional turbulence and disturbance. Intense combo, especially if Sx is the primary instinct. Rich fantasy life. Sometimes may become annoyed with how “inactive” someone seems to be in their situation while they themselves, due to 5 and 4 are quite withdrawn and ruminate rather than act to solve a problem in a hypocrisy that flies over their head, though spotting ways to solve someone else’s problems can be easy for them and they give fairly sound advice. Can be somewhat misanthropic or bitter but to them they’re being realistic, desires to be understood but withdraws from attempts to understand. They are mostly prone to mood swings/mental illness, arrogance, egocentrism, hypocrisy, violence and stubbornness/headstrongness. They are mostly sure of themselves, they are rarely insecure and have very few insecurities and doubts. Even if some people have problems with too much insecurities, this archetype literally has problems because they're TOO sure of themselves. This archetype can vary between extremely subjective to extremely objective and detached.
Interest: – knowing what makes people tick – building mental maps about this – problem solving
Character: – more introverted, but definitely not shy – intelligent – headstrong – aggressive/violent – confrontational – both attached and detached – introspective – strategic – emotionally unstable – dark – intense – knowledgeable – direct – esoteric – cynical – opinionated – original – reserved – confidence – focused – complex – can be moody/melancholic – direct – get angry/sad suddenly – guarded – analytic – wise – direct – blunt – factual – truth teller – reactive – independent – sensitive – fantasizing – dynamic – critical of self and others – contradictory – strong – vulnerable – changeable, fluctuating – temperamental – egocentric – defiant
Blind spot: – egoism/narcissism – attachment to the internal map of what they’ve found makes you blind to new information -> fixed in their worldview and ideas – “a lot of love and a lot of hate” – They need to realize that their need to overanalyze and ‘know’ what they think and feel keeps them from truly being. Studying gives you information, not wisdom. True knowing comes from connecting to your higher self and authentically being. – Due to the fact that all three trifixes are centered on self, this tritype is very self-centered and egocentric, even arrogant but not in the “show off” sense of the word, that would be the 358 archetype. 358 = I am the best at everything, treat me like a king; 458 = I am a special snowflake; I am the most important, treat me like a king. The 458 thinks they are more important than they are and they want to be treated like a special snowflake. The 358 thinks they are the best at everything and they want to be praised.
This is one of the most intense archetypes along with the 468. The reason for that is because of the intensity of all three trifixes, the 4 that makes a tragedy out of everything and the 8 that adds a very aggressive and intense attitude, adding the 5 introspective, wise and deep attitude, you get a very active type on their inside, especially when 4 or 5 is in charge.
The 458 can often be mistyped as a 5 but what happens a lot more often is the 548 being mistyped as a 4. The 548 is the most 4-ish 5. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core. Out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
The 468 and 478 (archetypes) are much more active/intense on their outside than 458. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority and will fight for a good authority along with maybe the 368. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities. The 458, 468 and 478 are truth tellers in their own way. You can tell 458 archetype and 468 archetype apart by seeing how reactive they are on the outside. When, for example, in class, they see a mistake done by the teacher, the 468 will react on the moment being confrontational while the 458 might take some time planning what they should say. I am a 548 and I always need time to think what to say in an argument which kind of sucks since a lot of the times I find things I should’ve said a few minutes/hours/even days later while the 468 would be much more of a quick thinker. I am pretty sure Eminem is part of the 468 archetype, his tritype being 684, more exactly, (cp)6w5-8w9-4w3. The 6 in the 468 will be counter-phobic because of the 8 trifix. The 478 will act pretty much more like a 468 than a 458 in the situations I described, they might not need as much time to think as the 458 but the 468 I still a little more reactive than the 478.
I believe this archetype is the most likely to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder (BPD), especially when 4 or 8 is in charge. With 5 in charge it is pretty improbable though.
This archetype is so self-centered and focused on themselves sometimes that they might be amazed by themselves so much that they realize something like “Wait, if only one person, one consciousness (me) is so complex and interesting to analyze, imagine that there are 7 billion people out there that are as complex as they can be, oh my god!!”. That’s why most people say “they crave knowing what makes people “tick””, they are amazed by the human mind/brain and how it works and how it got to one point to another leading to some very interesting conclusions.
As a wise man said, “"If you can bridge that gap between head and heart, that person is especially creative, (...), his books will speak to your head and your heart at the same time, but it's one of the hardest bridges to gap, to be fully in your heart AND fully in your head and have them not cancel one another out, huh? Good intellectual work and good emotional work and have the emotions feed the head and head feed the emotions." (Source:
) I find that the 548 tritype, and to a lesser extent, 584, is completely capable of doing that. They are almost like a living paradox, half 4 and half 5 even though they are like opposites. 4 is attachment 100% and 5 is detachment 100% and this creates a lot of confusion and problems. If you are 548 it’s a bless and a curse, this creates a lot of mental illness-related problems, hate by others due to being so controversial; and confusion. At the same time, you can be one of the most influential people in the world. Basically, work on stability and how others might perceive your work (this archetype often doesn’t think how its actions affect other people) and you’ll be a freaking badass. The other tritype that I can find capable of doing this is the 451 (and to a lesser extent 415), the most 5-ish 4.
MBTI – Enneagram correlations in this archetype: 458/485 – INFP, INFJ 548, 584 – INTJ, INTP 845, 854- ENTJ, ENTP and rarely, INTJ.
5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts. typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4 similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8 flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense
5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary. typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing) similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4 flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive
Jesus this was everything I was looking for and more. Also spot on. Many of the correlations and tendencies drawn have been things I’ve dealt with in my life. Arrogance and intellectual narcissism were definitely traits of mine as a teenager. Complexity, defiance, and inner battle are still things I believe I have too much of.

I’ll probably end up rereading that post many times over. Thank you so much!
 
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