Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 105 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,624 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
inspired originality
self-aware intuition
subtle humanity

symbolic drama
withdrawn melancholy
self-indulgent disdain

desolate confusion
guilt-ridden torment
suicidal despair


Type four people care more than most about the emotional significance of events. They can become trapped by a sense of the meaninglessness of their own life, and of the world. One of their talents is an intuitive connection to the source of beauty.

Except in rare cases, people of type four show a flavoring from one of the two adjacent wing points, so we can say they are four with a three wing (4/3) or four with a five wing (4/5).

Like all humans, fours also come in three instinctual flavors: social (4sc), sexual (4sx), or self-preserving (4sp). In addition, fours also experience nine distinct levels of mental-emotional health (briefly described by the phrases at the top of this page). Therefore, it is possible to distinguish fifty-four distinct subflavors of type four.​


four with three wing


general description

Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.


balanced and transcendent states


Balanced 4/3 finds the peace of equanimity. When four integrates to one and three integrates to six, deep compassionate wisdom is augmented by a feeling of brotherhood and belonging. Finally, the 4/3 reaches a point where comfort is possible without being tormented by a desire that others recognize that special uniqueness. Others who are feeling emotional difficulty can find sensitive, unselfish understanding in a balanced 4/3.

When 4/3 becomes deeply self-aware, there is a feeling of tremendous emotional integrity. Others feel that they are genuinely being heard, but not judged in any way. Somehow the advanced 4/3 manages to be both an equal and a teacher, both a sympathetic listener and a disciplined advisor. Real transformations happen in the lives of those who tell their stories to such people. People become powerfully motivated to find the real meaning in their lives.


unbalanced and unhealthy states


Unbalanced 4/3 swings through wild emotional cycles. As fourish emotionality gets more out of control, bringing in the selfish expectations of special treatment of the unhealthy two, the three-wing's nineish tendencies cause a kind of split within the psyche. The more intensely the dramatized pseudo-emotions are felt, the less in touch the 4/3 becomes with the real, honest feelings that lie underneath. The dramatic emotions become more and more staged and false.

In the unhealthy extreme, there is little actual contact with real feelings, despite the possibly awe-inspiring intensity of the outward expression. All the theatrical emotionality is a fearful cover for an inner emptiness that will not go away. Extremely unbalanced 4/3 has become so attached to the outward expression of the false emotions that the real feelings are overwhelmed and drowned out. The conviction of being hopelessly flawed may lead to desperate attempts to end it all with suicide, almost always in some dramatic, attention-grabbing way. I'm a hopeless romantic, unable to live a normal life. I might as well end it all right now, because no one will ever understand my torment. At least then, others might see the depth of my pain.


physical appearance

4/3 is the type most interested in a really artful, tastefully unique presentation. They often like to combine black and bright colors. 4/3s are usually thin to medium in build, although there are some exceptions. The females often wear their hair in some way that gives it a lot of body, such as shoulder-length (or longer) curls. Both sexes like to dress up. Some of the most outrageous costumes ever seen in ordinary public places are on 4/3s (the rest are on sevens).


callings

Some 4/3s find work that brings out their interest in aesthetics and artistic expression. Novelists, musicians, painters, poets, actors, dancers. Graphic designers, fashion consultants, interior designers, restaurant managers. Others express themselves more privately, outside of work, becoming secretaries, middle-managers, retail salespeople. There are 4/3 career advisors, guidance counsellors and psychologists. Of course, 4/3s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.​


four with five wing


general description

Average 4/5 is emotionally heavy. Powerful, passionate feelings and aesthetic appreciations swell within and then get bottled up inside. 4/5s generally avoid expressing their feelings because they feel that no one could possibly understand them. Like 4/3, they feel special and different, but 4/5 is more likely to withdraw into sullen silence than to make a big public scene. 4/5 and 5/4 both have strong feelings which they repress, but because their feelings are stronger than their repression, 4/5s are more aware than 5/4 of their inner emotional state. Consequently, they are more likely to become depressed. There is a kind of delicacy to 4/5 that is not usually present in 4/3.


balanced and transcendent states

Balanced 4/5 lightens up. The five-wing's integration to eight adds a kind of solidity and strength to the healthy 4/5, while the integration of four to one provides clear judgment and rationality. Healthy 4/5s begin to escape from the obsessive, dark, inner view, looking more outward into the world. There they find new connections with other people, possibly to their great surprise. They finally begin to discover that they have been loving people all along, although they may not have known it.

With spiritual growth, the realization that love has been present all along strengthens into an unquenchable thirst for deeper inner connections with an inner source of meaning. These connections are strengthened by loving compassion for other humans. Extremely advanced 4/5 is a gentle, strong, deeply passionate teacher. Keen observations of the subtle states of others provide a miraculous ability to elicit powerful, transforming feelings. They may teach in person, through their writings, or in more subtle ways such as various forms of artistic expression.


unbalanced and unhealthy states

Unbalanced 4/5 can move into the extreme withdrawal of depression, then, with still further disintegration, into a sort of dark impulsiveness. Deeply troubled by feelings of utter worthlessness and extreme isolation, unhealthy 4/5 may look for opportunities to perform degrading, menial tasks, rationalizing that such a fate is deserved. Servility and self-abasement provide a kind of barely-adequate, very temporary relief from the constant torment of self-hatred.

As life becomes less and less tolerable, suicide becomes increasingly likely, and if it happens it may be done in some unusually gruesome way. Extremely dark, horrifying inner imaginings are welcomed and encouraged. The whole world, both inner and outer, is seen as grotesquely diseased and utterly without redeeming qualities. 4/5 Hell is a place of unimaginable ugliness, populated by those deformed, psychotic monsters, the human race. Psychotic 4/5 revels in hopelessness and despair.


physical appearance


Some 4/5s place little attention on appearance, beyond a kind of casual style. Black clothing is common, loosely worn and maybe not very well-fitted. By contrast, there are other 4/5s who are careful to dress well whenever possible. Well-dressed 4/5s seem to have a way of looking elegant but understated. Whether or not they dress and groom themselves carefully, average to unbalanced 4/5s often feel they are unattractive in some way.


callings


Some 4/5s find work that lets them express their deep feelings while withdrawing from direct contact. Writers, painters, sculptors, philosophers, fabric designers. Others like to make deep contact with a few, carefully selected people. Psychologists, butlers, personal aides. They might overcome the desire to withdraw, coming out as popular musicians or character actors. Often they settle for relatively unglamorous work, living a rich fantasy life instead. There are 4/5 accountants, technical writers, and night clerks. Of course, 4/5s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.​


type four
 
Joined
·
4,757 Posts
Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.

When 4/3 becomes deeply self-aware, there is a feeling of tremendous emotional integrity. Others feel that they are genuinely being heard, but not judged in any way.
<== these make wonder if I'm a 4w3



four with five wing


general description

Average 4/5 is emotionally heavy. Powerful, passionate feelings and aesthetic appreciations swell within and then get bottled up inside. 4/5s generally avoid expressing their feelings because they feel that no one could possibly understand them.​


This last makes so much sense to be me but it doesn't stop me from trying to do so. This is the main reason I initially considered myself to be a 4w5.


balanced and transcendent states

Balanced 4/5 lightens up. The five-wing's integration to eight adds a kind of solidity and strength to the healthy 4/5, while the integration of four to one provides clear judgment and rationality. Healthy 4/5s begin to escape from the obsessive, dark, inner view, looking more outward into the world. There they find new connections with other people, possibly to their great surprise. They finally begin to discover that they have been loving people all along, although they may not have known it.

With spiritual growth, the realization that love has been present all along strengthens into an unquenchable thirst for deeper inner connections with an inner source of meaning. These connections are strengthened by loving compassion for other humans.


unbalanced and unhealthy states

Unbalanced 4/5 can move into the extreme withdrawal of depression, then, with still further disintegration, into a sort of dark impulsiveness. Deeply troubled by feelings of utter worthlessness and extreme isolation, unhealthy 4/5 may look for opportunities to perform degrading, menial tasks, rationalizing that such a fate is deserved. Servility and self-abasement provide a kind of barely-adequate, very temporary relief from the constant torment of self-hatred.


physical appearance


By contrast, there are other 4/5s who are careful to dress well whenever possible. Well-dressed 4/5s seem to have a way of looking elegant but understated. Whether or not they dress and groom themselves carefully, average to unbalanced 4/5s often feel they are unattractive in some way.


callings


Some 4/5s find work that lets them express their deep feelings while withdrawing from direct contact. Writers, painters, sculptors, philosophers, fabric designers. Others like to make deep contact with a few, carefully selected people. Psychologists, butlers, personal aides. They might overcome the desire to withdraw, coming out as popular musicians or character actors. Often they settle for relatively unglamorous work, living a rich fantasy life instead. There are 4/5 accountants, technical writers, and night clerks. Of course, 4/5s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.
The rest of this makes also a lot of sense to me. When I was in a really bad place, the italicized was exactly how I felt (and still feel from time to time).

For me, the only real thing that makes me doubt that I'm not 4w5 is the fact that I'm more like 4w3 in terms of reservedness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,456 Posts

callings


Some 4/5s find work that lets them express their deep feelings while withdrawing from direct contact. Writers, painters, sculptors, philosophers, fabric designers. Others like to make deep contact with a few, carefully selected people. Psychologists, butlers, personal aides. They might overcome the desire to withdraw, coming out as popular musicians or character actors.
If nothing else convinced me I was a 4w5, this did. I have considered drawing, writing, acting, singing, and being an assistant, which I thought was crazy, but somehow fun. This paragraph was scary to read.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,576 Posts
great article :) I'm kinda stuck between 4w3 and 7w6 hehe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
I've tested as a 4w5 before, but wasn't entirely sure; now I'm pretty much certain it's right. The descriptions just fit.

Thank you. :]​
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
<== these make wonder if I'm a 4w3
The quiz said that I'm 4/5 but the same exact part you quoted:

Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.

also makes me think I might be a 4/3. I struggle between extroversion and introversion quite often and there is NO rationalizing with me when I'm emotional. Definitely something I need to work on. :blushed:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Tested as a 4w3 the first time I took an enneagram test, but now I'm growing ever more convinced that I'm more of a 4w5.

Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.
This is like me since I'm a really competitive person. I love to be the one who's right, the one who knows all the answers and do the best. I'm enthusiastic and energetic when approaching math problems, for example, but withdrawn when I'm trying to write near a lake. I talk about my feelings a lot... often I feel as if I can't keep them in even if I try. My boyfriend, who's an INTP, has gotten a little tired of my tantrums and (often) depressive attitudes and just concluded that I'm histrionic. That might be true.

The more intensely the dramatized pseudo-emotions are felt, the less in touch the 4/3 becomes with the real, honest feelings that lie underneath. The dramatic emotions become more and more staged and false.

In the unhealthy extreme, there is little actual contact with real feelings, despite the possibly awe-inspiring intensity of the outward expression. All the theatrical emotionality is a fearful cover for an inner emptiness that will not go away. Extremely unbalanced 4/3 has become so attached to the outward expression of the false emotions that the real feelings are overwhelmed and drowned out.
Hmm... although I am dramatic, I'm also self critical to the point that I always look back and consider what my true feelings are. Therefore, my true feelings are usually not drowned out.

Average 4/5 is emotionally heavy. Powerful, passionate feelings and aesthetic appreciations swell within and then get bottled up inside.
YES.

Unbalanced 4/5 can move into the extreme withdrawal of depression, then, with still further disintegration, into a sort of dark impulsiveness. Deeply troubled by feelings of utter worthlessness and extreme isolation
SO MUCH YES. I think of doing the most crazy (in a bad way) things even when I'm not depressed. /ashamed face

Some 4/5s place little attention on appearance, beyond a kind of casual style.
Yes.
I grab a T-shirt and a pair of jeans in the morning, put them on, and just wander out.
My mother is concerned with my "abnormality" (lack of concern with appearance, etc) since I'm a teenage girl.
 
  • Like
Reactions: XL Sweatshirt

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
abnormality? haha. sometimes i wish i could care more... and sometimes i do, as i'm a bit insecure time to time. but it never motivates me enough to put forth as much effort as others do into my appearances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
<== these make wonder if I'm a 4w3

The rest of this makes also a lot of sense to me. When I was in a really bad place, the italicized was exactly how I felt (and still feel from time to time).

For me, the only real thing that makes me doubt that I'm not 4w5 is the fact that I'm more like 4w3 in terms of reservedness.


i see that you are so/sx.

this will probably give you more urge to connect and share your inner emotions more as a 4w5. that's why i think you're reservedness may differ from the typical 4w5 descriptions. maybe you being 6w7 next,too (heard those were ENFP like. definitely not the normal type 5. idk though, but i'm sure it's your stackings if those are correct.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
405 Posts
Tested as a 4w3 the first time I took an enneagram test, but now I'm growing ever more convinced that I'm more of a 4w5.



This is like me since I'm a really competitive person. I love to be the one who's right, the one who knows all the answers and do the best. I'm enthusiastic and energetic when approaching math problems, for example, but withdrawn when I'm trying to write near a lake. I talk about my feelings a lot... often I feel as if I can't keep them in even if I try. My boyfriend, who's an INTP, has gotten a little tired of my tantrums and (often) depressive attitudes and just concluded that I'm histrionic. That might be true.

The more intensely the dramatized pseudo-emotions are felt, the less in touch the 4/3 becomes with the real, honest feelings that lie underneath. The dramatic emotions become more and more staged and false.



Hmm... although I am dramatic, I'm also self critical to the point that I always look back and consider what my true feelings are. Therefore, my true feelings are usually not drowned out.



YES.



SO MUCH YES. I think of doing the most crazy (in a bad way) things even when I'm not depressed. /ashamed face



Yes.
I grab a T-shirt and a pair of jeans in the morning, put them on, and just wander out.
My mother is concerned with my "abnormality" (lack of concern with appearance, etc) since I'm a teenage girl.
just letting you know that i also strongly relate to the things you quoted about 4w5, plus everything else you said.
just saying because you may still be a 4w3.

what are your instinctual stackings if u know them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Instinctual stackings... as in? Sorry I'm a little lost here :blushed:

Edit: oh, are those the so/sx/sp business? I don't know mine because I've never encountered a test that would give me those things. A link here would be helpful :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
Instinctual stackings... as in? Sorry I'm a little lost here :blushed:

Edit: oh, are those the so/sx/sp business? I don't know mine because I've never encountered a test that would give me those things. A link here would be helpful :D
Eclectic Energies Enneagram Tests (free)

The thing with instinctual variants though... is they are quite complicated. More so than Enneagram or MBTI. At least in my opinion. I originally thought I was an SX/SP. Then I began to test with SP being my highest. But after more understanding and reading about them through forums and how they also differ depending upon your enneagram or mbti, I decided I was an SO, or rather a social variant.

If you're truly curious, I think it takes time to really be certain which is more fitting. Just read through various forums and websites. And be sure to read them according to how it makes each 4w5 different from one another.

Like, for me, I'm often concerned with others, as well as myself. If I'm socializing, are others enjoying their selves? Are they having a good time? Is someone upset? Etc. I'm very concerned with this. Also, I'm over analytical about my interactions with others. Perhaps something I said was misconstrued. Maybe something I said made me look like I'm ___. Or maybe it appeared as though I was being pissy with someone. Etc.
 
1 - 20 of 105 Posts
Top