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Have you ever mistyped between 6 and 4?

  • I have always typed as a 6.

    Votes: 10 12.5%
  • I mistyped as a 6. My true type is 4.

    Votes: 10 12.5%
  • I have always typed as a 4.

    Votes: 9 11.3%
  • I mistyped as a 4. My true type is 6.

    Votes: 33 41.3%
  • My type is 6 or 4 but my mistype was not 6 or 4 to begin with.

    Votes: 18 22.5%

  • Total voters
    80
21 - 39 of 39 Posts

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For me the object was not to fit in, but rather to blend in, like a spy.
Haha yeah, being able to become invisible would be nice sometimes (though I personally wouldn't want to get stuck that way).

Like Silver, I've thought about being both a 4 and a 6, though now I don't think I'm neither. Especially not 4, as I mostly relate to that type on a superficial level. It is interesting how similar the types can look sometimes.
 

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MOTM February 2014
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@Maybe, I apologize for the wait. Life got in the way.

I'm trying to understand 6's better... I know that my brother is a Phobic 6, and he sometimes asks me if his outfit looks 'weird' or if his haircut looks 'normal' - this is baffling to me! Is there 'one standard' for normal? =)
I was thinking about this, because I do almost the same thing. I don't ask if things look "normal," as I find that a very silly measuring stick, but I ask if, say, an outfit looks good or is appropriate. I was wondering if it's because the disintegration point of 6 is 3? Some of us can be blind to our image.

When I was younger, I cared very little about dressing appropriately or looking "good;" image was a waste of time, fiddling with it was boring and petty. I still have that belief to an extent, but I've become more aware that looks can count. It helps that I've made close friends with a 3 who insists on approving my outfits when it counts, thus beating it into my head eventually :p I suppose now it's more acknowledging that I don't know what looks good to most people. I definitely have my style, like I refuse to wear dresses/skirts, but I'll try to be as "appropriate" as I feel comfortable with. Mind you, I'm talking about more formal situations, not hanging out with friends.

Ahh, I see - so fitting in, is it about being safe? As in, you want to fit in so you won't subject yourself to ridicule and you'll then feel secure? But as long as you feel safe, like you won't be mocked , then you will express yourself more?
What is it that makes you feel unsafe doing this?
It's hard for me to think of how to sum up many specific examples into one neat summary, so this might be awkward. There's so many ifs or buts.

Fitting in can be about being safe. It can also be about securing the future, or not burning bridges. Sometimes it's "necessary" to play nice just so nothing untoward (in whatever manner) happens. Now, of course, I realize this sounds somewhat iffy in terms of character, but I'm talking about relatively minor events in the large scheme of life. I learned how horrible lying to/for my best friends felt, and I learned how I can't handle being around obnoxious friends-of-friends despite guilt trips. I did these things partly because I didn't know how to avoid doing them, and because doing them seemed like the safest/easiest way to keep relationships. Nowadays, I feel more comfortable saying no; this came from a combination of maturity, growth, and experience.

In more casual stranger situations--coworkers or such--I wouldn't really say I try to fit in as much as I try to appear un-different. Does that make sense? I rarely have much desire to make connections in those situations, so I don't put much effort in. I'll laugh when it seems like the time to laugh and I'll agree if it's innocuous, but that's partly because doing the opposite would take more effort.

I have issues with the sort of "middle" stage, which for me include internet forums and chat rooms, and also the friend-but-not-close-yet people. I don't know when is the time to be all of myself and when is the time to smile and nod. It's a weird balancing act that I don't feel like I'll ever perfect. I want to protect myself, but I usually want to connect. So it's hard and causes me the most trouble.

Also congrats on building up that confidence ^ =D
Haha, thanks xD

EDIT: Holy crap this is long. Whoops :O
 

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@Maybe, I apologize for the wait. Life got in the way.


I was thinking about this, because I do almost the same thing. I don't ask if things look "normal," as I find that a very silly measuring stick, but I ask if, say, an outfit looks good or is appropriate. I was wondering if it's because the disintegration point of 6 is 3? Some of us can be blind to our image.
I can relate, although I do ask if I look "normal" many times. xD The thing is, I have my own sense of style, but at the same time, I have a complete ineptitude to see what looks "right" and what doesn't. For example, "Are these shoes okay with these pants? Does this look normal?" I just don't want people staring at me for that. I want to wear what I like and not just what every one else is wearing, but at the same time, I don't want to stand out too much.

Actually, I'm a mess when it comes to clothes. I look at other people and think, "Oh wow, that's really nice! That's really pretty! Stylish! Elegant! Cool!" And then I try to do it myself and I'm just like, "No. Oh no." I still feel like a twelve year old trying to dress like an adult sometimes (it doesn't help that I'm really short). And when I was younger, I didn't care much about that at all. I'd wear whatever was at hand and I was actually proud of that, haha. But now, I also see the value of looking good and it matters to me much more.

So yeah, I don't always trust myself when it comes to looking "normal" and/or "appropriate", so I always need another opinion. But it's weird because at the same time, I don't want to completely fit in. :laughing:
 

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MOTM February 2014
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So yeah, I don't always trust myself when it comes to looking "normal" and/or "appropriate", so I always need another opinion. But it's weird because at the same time, I don't want to completely fit in.
I'm wondering how more SOC-y 6s, along with not-4-fixed 6s, would relate their experiences on their image. My mom, who I put at 692 sp/so, will also ask if she looks okay. From my outside perspective, I would say it's a combination of image "blindness" and lower self-esteem, but I can't really guess at the deeper reasons with any accuracy. I would say that SOC cares more on another level, yet I can't say how or what that level is.

I should note that at my age (mid-20s), not caring about my physical image like I do is probably a little unusual. However, I see people in (somewhat) similar situations as mine--visibly handicapped from birth--and they hang their identity on how they look. I've gotten into a debate with people about things like "my wheelchair is part of my personality," with me arguing "the reasons why I chose my wheelchair are part of my personality." Perhaps a good way to say how I view my self has relatively little to do with how I look and more to do with my actions/thoughts. People react like my way of thinking is completely oddball, just like I think their more materialistic ways are.

(My mind is very tangential.)
 

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I have realized that 6s maybe think they're 4s because we crave to be different from others too, but it's mainly because we're relating types. In someway, we're running away from it. Running away from normalcy. We feel it's going to catch us. We would not be so focused in our identities if we were not so afraid of losing or not finding them. It's not necessarily triggered by something else. There's no point in speculating about our motives, even if we're good at speculating. We're not trying to discover ourselves because we're feeling we're going to lose independence or power of decision. It's párt of being a human, the process of self-discovery. The problem is that our minds are so restless and noisy. We almost beg them to stop running sometimes. I think 4s do not crave to be different; they already feel they are and that's where the shame come from. The correct word here is being deffective instead of being different. 4s feel that because they feel they lack something others have. They feel sepparated from the idea of a common origin. 4s build up a self-esteem defense mechanism that makes them highlight the way they differ even more, because they find validation in it, but they can fall down easily in a hole of self-pity and vanity. They are image types. It's in their blood. In our blood is madness. Of uncontrollable generation of ideas, contradicting each other, making us lose guidance. Guidance for me is acting and feeling in present time. We substitute guidance with a crazy generation of ideas in both ways, inside and outside. This generation of ideas makes us feel a lot of anxiety. I'm talking obviously about unhealthy levels. I think 6s will understand me here. It's really difficult to put it into words. That feeling of 6s' vice. In fact, we feel though thinking. At least, that's the way I'm experiencing it. Maybe we think we're feeling shame, when we're not.
OMG, this was just so incredibly accurate. I have been struggling so much to calm my mind. I have so many thoughts bouncing around, exploding off little points of something I notice, feel, hear, remember. My mind is often so consumed, my stomach and chest so ravaged by a constant anxiety, that I have for years been convinced I was on the brink of losing my sanity.

I am psychology student and so I frequently analyze myself and misinterpret the sources and causes of my inner experience. Because of the nonstop, vividly anxious nature of my mind, I have been struggling against the temptation to diagnose myself as having bipolar ii. I do not have bipolar ii, though, because I exhibit none of the symptoms and instead assume that a restless, anxious mind has to be disordered somehow, hypomanic, deluded...

I have never seen anyone else capture this experience as you have. I so often feel alone in my meandering journey through constant nervousness.

I am curious... I know your post is a year old but if by any chance you should notice this quote, I wonder if you know which wing you are. I can't seem to find myself comfortably in w7 or w5. I identify with both, really I have confused myself for a 5 for years because my method of coping is usually to withdraw to myself and gathering formation that I think will help. But I also have the bouncy, pleasure-seeking nature of the 7. Curious.
 

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I am a social 4 and I have 6 in the tritype. At first, people may think I am a 6, as I am phobic and anxious. In some ways, I look more 6 than 6s. Lol. But, I never mistyped myself as I know I completely rely on my emotions to identify myself. Well...not as much now as I used to. Thanks God.
 

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When I first took an Enneagram test, a number of years ago, I came up type Four. It seems to be a very common first mistype.

I was sure I was a Four, and I went around sharing what it's like to be a Four. And then I ran into two Fours who persistently doubted my type. I argued with both, and I mostly ignored the less persuasive of the two. But the other was a very knowledgeable student of the Enneagram, and she asked some very pointed questions that got me thinking. She said I sounded more like a 6w5 to her.

I briefly checked out type Six, but my further research and soul-searching led me to decide I was actually a Nine. I went around sharing what it's like to be a Nine, and I got no argument from anyone. But I noticed that I had an extremely strong One wing and almost no Eight wing at all (my test scores are always lowest in Eight). And one day while talking with my wife about criticism, it hit me that I was probably a 1w9, not a 9w1.

So, I went around sharing what it's like to be a One. And I got no argument there either. For a couple years I had no doubt about my type. However, I couldn't explain the chronic anxiety that has plagued me all my life. I've always called myself the most indecisive person I know, as I'm always second-guessing myself. Where does that fit into personality typing?

The clue I got was a post from here in PerC--just a short comment that most INFPs are actually Sixes, though they think they're Fours. That brought me around to reconsidering type Six. And voila! it fit.

The Enneagram can be weird that way. We all have all nine fixations, and it's possible to focus on any one of them (or any combination of them). But it can take years of work to zero in on the main fixation pattern. Maybe it's hardest for Sixes, for a couple reasons: (1) Sixes are uncertain by nature, and (2) Six is kind of unsexy, like Charlie Brown, and who wants to be ordinary?

It doesn't help that Six is the most confusing type to understand. There has been so much confusion over phobic/counterphobic (and Prussian) varieties of Sixes that it can be hard to nail down just what Six basically means.

People confuse themselves further, though, by tackling advanced Enneagram ideas before they've mastered the basics. There's plenty to distract one from the fundamentals.
 

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I am a social 4 and I have 6 in the tritype. At first, people may think I am a 6, as I am phobic and anxious. In some ways, I look more 6 than 6s. Lol. But, I never mistyped myself as I know I completely rely on my emotions to identify myself. Well...not as much now as I used to. Thanks God.

I know it is an old thread but I find it really interesting.

Actually, reading most of it, I still think I am four and never thought I was 6, but I am quite curious ... It is super hard, even after 3 pages, to make a clear difference.

I read the enneagram misidentification on the "official" website between 4 and 6, and strangely enough, I didn't recognize myself so much in four, whereas reading the description of each type, I was totally sure to be a 4 and never thought I was a 6.



I think that the main difference, and maybe the most useful thing to identify if you are 4 or 6 (need to be confirmed?), is clearly how you "live" your emotions.

As a four I really can't control them, can become crazy and insecure and over anxious because of an emotion, but then realize after a week that I didn't really care. As a four, I am a slave of my emotions and on the other hand, it is hard for me to know what's "true" or not because I tend to dramatize and "over" feel. I overthink as well, but because my feeling is so strong that I am stuck in it and need to spend my whole time thinking about it. I can be very anxious and insecure sometimes, but it is triggered by a feeling I have at the moment, because something makes me feel I don't have the love that I deserve or I am rejected etc.

As well, I don't give a *** about being like others, actually I really love being different in my own way, being unique, I am not looking for it, I just know I am different.
The thing is, I can become absolutely crazy and obsessed with someone I like if the person doesn't like me as I'd like to be liked, if the person doesn't see I am special. I feel rejection just from that. I don't need to be rejected to feel rejected, I just need a little bit of "indifference" (neutrality), because neutrality means I am not so "special", that I am just "a person". I don't want to be just "somebody".

I don't know if it is a four thing, but on one hand I have a super big ego and really think that I am different and "great", and on the other hand I am so unconfident about myself deep inside that I can spend hours crying for this kind of stuff.

I think that there is something similar in 6 with the thinking process, but that they don't tend to dramatize their emotions as a four would do. I have the feeling that 6 emotions are more "reliable" and true.

I am not saying four are not truthful, we are extremely honest and the feeling is true on the moment ... But most of the time it goes away, come back, changes, ... My feelings are very powerful but most of the time not very "deep" even if on the moment I have the feeling it is.
And often, those feelings are all about myself even if I don't realize it.
As a good example, I tend to see it with guys : I think I am in love with someone, but I actually don't love the other person, I want the other person to love me. It took me years to realize it although it is a big difference ... I've been really in love only once but obsessed with a lot of different guys for months thinking I had feelings for them.

Even today, I am aware of all that, but still struggle with this problem : I need others to confirm I am "special" and treat me this way, otherwise I behave like a capricious child. I honestly would like to change it ... But I can't control it. It hurts so much

Maybe 6 feel the same way and my description would then be useless ... but I am curious to share your thoughts
 

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MOTM Jan 2014
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Not sure if this will help because every 4 is different but I'll bite..

I think that the main difference, and maybe the most useful thing to identify if you are 4 or 6 (need to be confirmed?), is clearly how you "live" your emotions.
Not sure about that. Being a 4 is more about identity than emotions - and those are two different things. Fi types care about their own emotions, and people who are Fi-first tend to identify with their values and feelings, but an INFJ 4 for instance might identify more with their insights into the bullshit in the world, or have a sense of identity that is not based on their own feelings, even if they do have a lot of feelings.

As a four I really can't control them, can become crazy and insecure and over anxious because of an emotion, but then realize after a week that I didn't really care.
I'm a Fi 4 and this has never happened to me. First of all my emotions don't make me anxious. What makes me anxious is expressing my feelings to someone who might reject me. And that makes me so anxious that something as small as dialing the phone number of a crush can lead to hours of stomach problems and anxiety. But having feelings by myself is not anxiety inducing.

The nature of feelings is that they come and go. All feelings will eventually be replaced by another feeling. It's more disconcerting to me to imagine having NO feelings, but it's so impossible to imagine that I can't really conjure any palpable fear about it.

I don't need to think "This will pass," however, when i have a feeling. I have never had any inclination to shove my feelings - I prefer to absorb them and dive into them fully and even express them in private (music, diary, whatever). The more intense the feeling, the more ALIVE I am. Feelings mean that something is meaningful.

I have yet to experience an intense feeling and then decide after a week, a month or a year that I didn't really care. My feelings arise from a place of depth that builds over time and they tend to arise for the same (core) reasons throughout my life. Perhaps I don't care about that particular situation anymore once I've resolved it, but I know the feelings were stirred for a reason, so I have never thought to myself "I don't really care" ... I do care about MYSELF and why my feelings arose, because that says something about me, even if the situation has passed.

As a four, I am a slave of my emotions and on the other hand, it is hard for me to know what's "true" or not because I tend to dramatize and "over" feel.
I don't see how a feeling itself can be unreal by nature. Conceptually I can understand the idea that a bond between two people isn't as "real" as you thought (which really means the other person doesn't care as much as you thought or they deceived you about who they were or you realized you were just horny or lonely or something of that sort, usually)... but to me, a feeling is no less "real" than a thought, a desire, a fever, an experience or an art piece. It just is.

I overthink as well,but because my feeling is so strong that I am stuck in it and need to spend my whole time thinking about it. I can be very anxious and insecure sometimes, but it is triggered by a feeling I have at the moment, because something makes me feel I don't have the love that I deserve or I am rejected etc.
I don't believe that I deserve love... or that anyone 'deserves' my love. I owe it to myself to be honorable, stay true to my word and be honest with myself and others in matters of love. But I don't think love is something that is deserved. Like feelings... love just IS. No explanation is needed for it. That said I do spend a lot of time contemplating the patterns of my feelings, what it means about me, etc. But I don't feel any need to justify having them. (I don't know if other 4s agree with me here)

As well, I don't give a *** about being like others, actually I really love being different in my own way, being unique, I am not looking for it, I just know I am different.
Yeah, this I can relate to, in a way, though I don't really think in terms of unique vs. common, because whose labels are we using to determine what is common or unique?

The specific way in which I am different is that I am not caught up in the bullshit that a lot of "undead" people are caught up in (in my own opinion). I don't see the point in just going through life, surviving, undead, but not really LIVING. It has always been crucial to me to have a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Even as a child I practiced piano and wrote music and books (starting with books at age 11) and never watched TV, though my family did. I'm not trashing people for watching TV, but I'm just saying I didn't get caught up in it just because it was the thing to do. I also never liked cartoons after about age 5. I was always more into Phantom of the Opera than Beauty and the Beast (same basic concept, but Phantom is HUMAN and has depth and is relatable). As an adult there are people in my age range who can appreciate this, but as a child I found it a bit strange that everyone else was so swayed by things like television shows, crappy movies and popularity contests. In third grade the popular girls invited me "in" on the condition that I ditch my friend and I told them either you take both of us, or neither. This is not something I ever sa anyone else do - even that same friend later turned on ME at her convenience to get with the popular people. I've just never cared about stuff like that.

The problem is not that I'm any worse than anyone else, but that if I can't express who I am, I can't bridge the gap between me and them. My ideal self would be a symbol of my own values, passions, beliefs, emotions. I'd be a vessel through which these passions emerge and i would spend my life communicating clearly, polishing the vessel (meaning, being better at my crafts like writing and music and even speaking) so I could be a clear mirror for others. I love it when people see themselves in my work, not just see ME. But I also want to communicate because otherwise, I am isolated - even if I'm surrounded by people, nobody can really SEE me. Because who I am has just developed so differently from people who got caught up in trends instead of looking inward and defining their own tastes and values the way I do.

The thing is, I can become absolutely crazy and obsessed with someone I like if the person doesn't like me as I'd like to be liked, if the person doesn't see I am special. I feel rejection just from that.
That has never happened to me. People have thought many times that I'm not GOOD or NORMAL or that I "have no shame" or I'm "too...."
but nobody has ever thought I'm "like anyone else." Sometimes it annoys me because even those closest to me can't relate to me, which makes me feel like I'm failing to express something basic and human, like I'm inadequate to share my heart with anyone.

I don't need to be rejected to feel rejected, I just need a little bit of "indifference" (neutrality), because neutrality means I am not so "special", that I am just "a person". I don't want to be just "somebody".
Yeah, I can also interpret rejection where it isn't. I need to be #1 in the person's mind who I am with, or obsessed with.. and even if I am, I can easily feel unseen or discarded in favor of their own shit, which is frustrating when my heart is bleeding. My response to that is usually to shut off and create distance, withdraw and see if they chase. I always need to have the power in that regard. Nobody will ever see me on my knees chasing them. My husband is the first man who has gotten me to admit aloud when I'm jealous or insecure about something nonsensical.

I don't know if it is a four thing, but on one hand I have a super big ego and really think that I am different and "great", and on the other hand I am so unconfident about myself deep inside that I can spend hours crying for this kind of stuff.
Tbh I think that's just human.

I think that there is something similar in 6 with the thinking process, but that they don't tend to dramatize their emotions as a four would do. I have the feeling that 6 emotions are more "reliable" and true.
Nah, sixes can be plenty melodramatic. Look at Amy Lee ( 6w7) from Evanescence, and Matt Bellamy (6w5) from Muse.

I'm a 4 and for all my tremendous faults, my emotions are reliable and true. I know myself so well that I can even predict how a relationship will turn out the moment I meet someone. My heart just knows, and I'm hardly ever wrong. The only time I'm wrong is if I think, lol. Its better if I just trust my gut because I know myself damn well and I'm always right about those matters.

I'm horrible at a lot of things but emotions is not one.

I am not saying four are not truthful, we are extremely honest and the feeling is true on the moment ... But most of the time it goes away, come back, changes, ... My feelings are very powerful but most of the time not very "deep" even if on the moment I have the feeling it is.
I can't relate to that but other 4s might, I don't know. To be fair I know sixes who would also consider their emotions "deep," I think.

And often, those feelings are all about myself even if I don't realize it.
As a good example, I tend to see it with guys : I think I am in love with someone, but I actually don't love the other person, I want the other person to love me. It took me years to realize it although it is a big difference ...
That feeling is human and understandable.. the thing is when I have feelings like that I know it right away, it doesn't take me years to understand it. Like I said feelings is the only thing on earth that I'm "efficient" at. :p

I've been really in love only once but obsessed with a lot of different guys for months thinking I had feelings for them.
I'm not sure if I grasp the difference between being obsessed for months and having feelings. Though I can grasp the difference between love and obsession. But obsession is a type of feelings, just not the same category of feelings (perhaps) as love.

Even today, I am aware of all that, but still struggle with this problem : I need others to confirm I am "special" and treat me this way, otherwise I behave like a capricious child. I honestly would like to change it ... But I can't control it. It hurts so much
I don't need any confirmation at all when it comes to who I am. But I do feel genuinely unlovable and I need tons of confirmation that I'm loved, to a pathetic degree.

Maybe 6 feel the same way and my description would then be useless ... but I am curious to share your thoughts
Curious also to see how sixes relate to this. :)
 

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I know it is an old thread but I find it really interesting.

Actually, reading most of it, I still think I am four and never thought I was 6, but I am quite curious ... It is super hard, even after 3 pages, to make a clear difference.

I read the enneagram misidentification on the "official" website between 4 and 6, and strangely enough, I didn't recognize myself so much in four, whereas reading the description of each type, I was totally sure to be a 4 and never thought I was a 6.



I think that the main difference, and maybe the most useful thing to identify if you are 4 or 6 (need to be confirmed?), is clearly how you "live" your emotions.

As a four I really can't control them, can become crazy and insecure and over anxious because of an emotion, but then realize after a week that I didn't really care. As a four, I am a slave of my emotions and on the other hand, it is hard for me to know what's "true" or not because I tend to dramatize and "over" feel. I overthink as well, but because my feeling is so strong that I am stuck in it and need to spend my whole time thinking about it. I can be very anxious and insecure sometimes, but it is triggered by a feeling I have at the moment, because something makes me feel I don't have the love that I deserve or I am rejected etc.

As well, I don't give a *** about being like others, actually I really love being different in my own way, being unique, I am not looking for it, I just know I am different.
The thing is, I can become absolutely crazy and obsessed with someone I like if the person doesn't like me as I'd like to be liked, if the person doesn't see I am special. I feel rejection just from that. I don't need to be rejected to feel rejected, I just need a little bit of "indifference" (neutrality), because neutrality means I am not so "special", that I am just "a person". I don't want to be just "somebody".

I don't know if it is a four thing, but on one hand I have a super big ego and really think that I am different and "great", and on the other hand I am so unconfident about myself deep inside that I can spend hours crying for this kind of stuff.

I think that there is something similar in 6 with the thinking process, but that they don't tend to dramatize their emotions as a four would do. I have the feeling that 6 emotions are more "reliable" and true.

I am not saying four are not truthful, we are extremely honest and the feeling is true on the moment ... But most of the time it goes away, come back, changes, ... My feelings are very powerful but most of the time not very "deep" even if on the moment I have the feeling it is.
And often, those feelings are all about myself even if I don't realize it.
As a good example, I tend to see it with guys : I think I am in love with someone, but I actually don't love the other person, I want the other person to love me. It took me years to realize it although it is a big difference ... I've been really in love only once but obsessed with a lot of different guys for months thinking I had feelings for them.

Even today, I am aware of all that, but still struggle with this problem : I need others to confirm I am "special" and treat me this way, otherwise I behave like a capricious child. I honestly would like to change it ... But I can't control it. It hurts so much

Maybe 6 feel the same way and my description would then be useless ... but I am curious to share your thoughts
I totally relate to most of what you wrote, except maybe that as a social dom, the dialectic between the need to fit and the need to be different might be even more polarizing, due to a stronger need to fit than other variants. Overall, I want others to see me as “normal” more than different. A sexual 4 would probably tell the opposite.

On a theoretical level, all enneatypes have issues with identification (it is an egoic thing, not specific to 4s), but 4s have issues specifically with identification to emotions, moods, feelings, as the Heart center is involved, whatever happens on the cognitive level (INFP, INFJ, etc.). Of course, if on the cognitive level, Ni is dominant for instance, the ego will identify to visions, subjective interpretations, etc. all related to Ni, but it will not be specific to enneatype 4. What is specific to 4, is the identification to the matters of the Heart, plus a longing on what is missing, due to the archaic memory of the lost connection to the Source (the merging state with mother and divine Mother).

What is specific to 6 is the emphasis of the identification process to the matters of the Head center, specifically thoughts polarized around security issues. While 4s can easily lose themselves in their polarized feelings, 6s will lose themselves in their polarized thoughts. It is due to the 6s main Center preference, whatever good is the access to their emotions.

The need to be recognized as someone “special” comes from the infantile need to be fully seen, validated and loved as who we really are by the loved ones and society (as an extension to the delicious merging feeling with totality we had at the origin of our being) and the failure to be recognized as such, which led to either 4s embracing their differences or rejecting them. You seem to belong more to the first category with your need to be seen as special.
 

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Yeah, I can also interpret rejection where it isn't. I need to be #1 in the person's mind who I am with, or obsessed with.. and even if I am, I can easily feel unseen or discarded in favor of their own shit, which is frustrating when my heart is bleeding. My response to that is usually to shut off and create distance, withdraw and see if they chase. I always need to have the power in that regard. Nobody will ever see me on my knees chasing them. My husband is the first man who has gotten me to admit aloud when I'm jealous or insecure about something nonsensical.

Hello

We have quite a lot of different thoughts and behaviors, but I guess that it is normal, being four doesn't mean we are exactly the same.

However, I wanted to quote this because I am curious. I totally join you when you say that you need to be #1 person when you have a crush, that's why I can't have sex just to have sex and see the person again and again if I don't feel a connexion ... Not because I want a serious relationship, but because it hurts me so much and makes me crazy not to be "important" if I have a crush.

I also absolutely need to have the power, otherwise I just feel bad and depressed. The weird thing is that I am absolutely incapable of withdrawing without saying anything to win the power back. It's all or nothing.
Either I just put the situation to an end and disappear, but I need it to be clear ; or I am trying and trying again hoping the person will like me more and more, but it's not happening.
I am not on my knees, but when I lose the power, I can't withdraw and wait to see if I can have it back because I can't stand doubt and uncertainty.
That's why I am drowning into the situation, trying to create a connexion, a friendship, even though I know it never works ... And when I realize it doesn't work, I just put the situation to an end.

When I was a teenager I was a lot more like you, I was able to withdraw very easily and to wait to see if the person was coming back. Even though I had feelings, it was very easy for me to withdraw and "wallow into myself", "mourning" in silence even if the situation was unclear.

Today, I just can't stand an unclear situation. I think that my fear of being rejected has become so strong that I don't have anymore patience and would rather make sure that I will be rejected and trigger it myself than waiting for someone to do it ...

It is very frustrating actually. I'd like to be able to close myself without "saying" it to the other person, without a proper closure. But now my expectations and my hopes are so big, that it is all or nothing. Most of the time I don't find the strength to put an end to the situation in my head if I don't actually put an end to the situation in real life.
 

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MOTM Jan 2014
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Hello

We have quite a lot of different thoughts and behaviors, but I guess that it is normal, being four doesn't mean we are exactly the same.
Yeah.

However, I wanted to quote this because I am curious. I totally join you when you say that you need to be #1 person when you have a crush, that's why I can't have sex just to have sex and see the person again and again if I don't feel a connexion ... Not because I want a serious relationship, but because it hurts me so much and makes me crazy not to be "important" if I have a crush.

I also absolutely need to have the power, otherwise I just feel bad and depressed. The weird thing is that I am absolutely incapable of withdrawing without saying anything to win the power back. It's all or nothing.
To me, the only power you have in a relationship is the power to walk away. Withdrawing is doing exactly that. Making a show of having the power, even if inside of yourself, you can't forget this person and obsess over them and experience your obsession with them as part of your very essence. Yay for being an image type.

Either I just put the situation to an end and disappear, but I need it to be clear ; or I am trying and trying again hoping the person will like me more and more, but it's not happening.
I, on the other hand, would never allow myself to be rejected twice. It's brave and honest to be open about my feelings and vulnerable enough to allow myself to be rejected ONCE (something I have struggled hard to do), but twice is out of the question. If I've opened up once and been burned, that person would have to put in tremendous effort for years to have a second chance. (This is not just philosophical, this is an analysis based on my actual actions. The only person who has ever rejected me twice went way out of his way to get my attention again for 2 years, and I protested the whole time - even though I was secretly obsessed with him.)

I am not on my knees, but when I lose the power, I can't withdraw and wait to see if I can have it back because I can't stand doubt and uncertainty.
Isn't that the essence of type six?
If youre a 4 maybe you have a 6 fix?

That's why I am drowning into the situation, trying to create a connexion, a friendship, even though I know it never works ... And when I realize it doesn't work, I just put the situation to an end.
Yeah.. I don't try to create a connection - although there's nothing particularly un-4 about that I think.. but to me.. it's inauthentic to try to CREATE a connection with someone else that isn't there. I'd rather search inside myself to figure out why I feel this way; why I'm so emotionally attached to this person who apparently isn't attached to me.

When I was a teenager I was a lot more like you, I was able to withdraw very easily and to wait to see if the person was coming back. Even though I had feelings, it was very easy for me to withdraw and "wallow into myself", "mourning" in silence even if the situation was unclear.
It's not exactly easy. And I don't just mourn in silence - I express my feelings any way I can, in my diary, songs, books - and fantasize that one day I'd come up with the most honest, heartfelt artistic expression which would adequately and brilliantly express my feelings. That way, even if I'm rejected romantically, I will impress this person and possibly inspire their envy. But either way I won't be easily forgotten. ;)


Today, I just can't stand an unclear situation. I think that my fear of being rejected has become so strong that I don't have anymore patience and would rather make sure that I will be rejected and trigger it myself than waiting for someone to do it ...

It is very frustrating actually. I'd like to be able to close myself without "saying" it to the other person, without a proper closure. But now my expectations and my hopes are so big, that it is all or nothing. Most of the time I don't find the strength to put an end to the situation in my head if I don't actually put an end to the situation in real life.
To me, closure is an internal process, not dependent on someone else's input. I will get over something when I get over it - regardless what the other person says or does.

I tend to under-value needing an answer from the other person. Certainty is not important to me, though authenticity is. And authenticity is something that can only come from myself.

To me, pushing for certainty or closure from another party is not necessarily going to generate an authentic response, anyway. If anything, in communication I aim to express *my own* feelings genuinely, rather than demand that someone else give me an explanation of their own. If I want something true and honest for them, it's more authentic to make it known that they have the option of telling me how they feel, but that there's no pressure to do that if it doesn't feel genuine to them or if they don't know.

My ideal self would be very open and clear about all of my feelings, but I am often ashamed of the tremendous power that my feelings for someone might have over me, and I also feel like any expression of my feelings, short of writing a book or an album about them, would not do justice to my feelings. So I hold back because I don't want to be rejected, because I feel I'm inadequate to communicate, and because I'm ashamed that such a large part of my psyche is taken up by someone who doesn't care. My ideal self would just feel "it is what it is" and say it plain. I've worked hard to bridge the gap between my ideal self and my ashamed, scared-of-rejection self. But it will never be enough; it's a life journey.
 

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Yeah.


To me, the only power you have in a relationship is the power to walk away. Withdrawing is doing exactly that. Making a show of having the power, even if inside of yourself, you can't forget this person and obsess over them and experience your obsession with them as part of your very essence. Yay for being an image type.


I, on the other hand, would never allow myself to be rejected twice. It's brave and honest to be open about my feelings and vulnerable enough to allow myself to be rejected ONCE (something I have struggled hard to do), but twice is out of the question. If I've opened up once and been burned, that person would have to put in tremendous effort for years to have a second chance. (This is not just philosophical, this is an analysis based on my actual actions. The only person who has ever rejected me twice went way out of his way to get my attention again for 2 years, and I protested the whole time - even though I was secretly obsessed with him.)


Isn't that the essence of type six?
If youre a 4 maybe you have a 6 fix?


Yeah.. I don't try to create a connection - although there's nothing particularly un-4 about that I think.. but to me.. it's inauthentic to try to CREATE a connection with someone else that isn't there. I'd rather search inside myself to figure out why I feel this way; why I'm so emotionally attached to this person who apparently isn't attached to me.


It's not exactly easy. And I don't just mourn in silence - I express my feelings any way I can, in my diary, songs, books - and fantasize that one day I'd come up with the most honest, heartfelt artistic expression which would adequately and brilliantly express my feelings. That way, even if I'm rejected romantically, I will impress this person and possibly inspire their envy. But either way I won't be easily forgotten. ;)



To me, closure is an internal process, not dependent on someone else's input. I will get over something when I get over it - regardless what the other person says or does.

I tend to under-value needing an answer from the other person. Certainty is not important to me, though authenticity is. And authenticity is something that can only come from myself.

To me, pushing for certainty or closure from another party is not necessarily going to generate an authentic response, anyway. If anything, in communication I aim to express *my own* feelings genuinely, rather than demand that someone else give me an explanation of their own. If I want something true and honest for them, it's more authentic to make it known that they have the option of telling me how they feel, but that there's no pressure to do that if it doesn't feel genuine to them or if they don't know.

My ideal self would be very open and clear about all of my feelings, but I am often ashamed of the tremendous power that my feelings for someone might have over me, and I also feel like any expression of my feelings, short of writing a book or an album about them, would not do justice to my feelings. So I hold back because I don't want to be rejected, because I feel I'm inadequate to communicate, and because I'm ashamed that such a large part of my psyche is taken up by someone who doesn't care. My ideal self would just feel "it is what it is" and say it plain. I've worked hard to bridge the gap between my ideal self and my ashamed, scared-of-rejection self. But it will never be enough; it's a life journey.
Yes, when I say that I need a closure, it is not from the other person actually, it is from me. The stupid thing is, I just need to say it. I just need to say "ok now you've gone too far" and then I disappear.
I don't care about having an answer or not, but I just can't begin the process if I don't say that. I guess that by saying it, I give the other person a chance to make a move and I consider that my job is done. Whereas if I say nothing, I keep on thinking "maybe he doesn't realize it ... maybe he doesn't know ... maybe he likes me but ..."

Another thing is that I really believe in certain situations, a closure conversation is good. I agree with you, it doesn't mean the other person is going to be honest. But they know if they are or not, I don't really care about knowing it. The most important thing for me is to be able to think "I tried everything I could, no regrets, I just know how to feel". I think I am just tired of being a 4 fantasying about something that do not exist. I've been disappointed and hurt too much times.
I totally join you in the fact that withdrawing yourself is absolutely enough to say "no regrets", because if the person never comes back, you have your answer. But the only time I recently withdrew without saying anything, I spent a whole year thinking things like "I am sure he has feelings for me but that he is afraid of it", or this kind of shit. It hurts a lot when you realized you fooled yourself, and I'd rather avoid it now, even if I lose some dignity by trying and talking instead of withdrawing.

About being rejected twice, I think I am like you but with less dignity and more "perseverance" (even if in those cases it is not a good thing).
The thing is, when I really decide the person has gone too far and used all the chances I gave, I close myself and good luck to get me back after that. BUT, it often takes me some time to reach this point, because I always hope for the best, and I know that when I really decide to leave, there is no turning back.

About being a 6, I don't know actually. To be honest, I really think I am four and don't feel so close to 6 on certain points, but it is not the first time that I notice I have some common patterns.
I thought I was 478 but maybe I am wrong. Maybe I thought I had a 7 fix because I am a four and sometimes the behaviors are similar. The 478 description was a lot like me but I should check the 468 as well.

I was going to say "you sound like a 4w5 and I am 4w3 so that can maybe explain it", but I just saw you actually are 4w3. I thought that 4w3 were more likely to share their feelings and didn't tend to withdraw so much, but I guess it is not that simple.
 

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Yes, when I say that I need a closure, it is not from the other person actually, it is from me. The stupid thing is, I just need to say it. I just need to say "ok now you've gone too far" and then I disappear.
I don't care about having an answer or not, but I just can't begin the process if I don't say that. I guess that by saying it, I give the other person a chance to make a move and consider that my job is done. Whereas if I say nothing, I keep on thinking "maybe he doesn't realize it ... maybe he doesn't know ... maybe he likes me but ..."
Yeah.. I hate being in limbo too.. and I wish I were more like you, more able to just put my heart out there and risk rejection. I just suck at that.

I'm happily married now, but I still need to work on this for reasons other than relationships (like at work, friendships etc) or even just to be sure I'd communicate honestly with my husband if I should ever end up feeling rejected by something, instead of closing off and creating distance.

About being rejected twice, I think I am like you but with less dignity and more "perseverance" (even if in those cases it is not a good thing).
The thing is, when I really decide the person has gone too far and used all the chances I gave, I close myself and good luck to get me back after that. BUT, it often takes me some time to reach this point, because I always hope for the best, and I know that when I really decide to leave, there is no turning back.
Yeah..
I can relate to "when I really decide to leave, there is no turning back." That's me also. I don't tend to have the problem of putting up with bullshit or persevering though. My problems lie more in confessing feelings in the first place. Once I'm in a relationship I'm pretty quick to cut that off if someone is stepping on me in any way. It doesn't mean I'd get over them emotionally overnight, but if I've seen the "fatal flaw" in the relationship I don't really see the point in lingering and prolonging the process of divorcing myself from it emotionally, by subjecting myself to more of their bullshit. I'd rather be left alone to deal with my feelings.

About being a 6, I don't know actually. To be honest, I really feel I am four and don't feel so close to 6 on certain points, but it is not the first time that I notice I have some common patterns.
I thought I was 478 but maybe I am wrong. Maybe I thought I had a 7 fix because I am a four and sometimes the behaviors are similar. The 478 description was a lot like me but I should check the 468 as well.
Yeah it could be worth looking into all of it for sure. :) Plus even if it doesn't apply to you it can always help to learn more about types.

I mistyped several times - at 5, 3 and 8 .. (years ago).. before I reached 4.. because of stereotypes about 4 that didn't apply to me, but in the end, I learned they don't apply to any 4s per se. I'll also admit I mistyped partially out of stubbornness and refusal to acknowledge some things about myself. :(

I was going to say "you sound like a 4w5 and I am 4w3 so that can maybe explain it", but I just saw you actually are 4w3. I thought that 4w3 were more likely to share their feelings and didn't tend to withdraw so much, but I guess it is not that simple.
Yeah, I had typed at 4w5 for a while for various reasons. I have some things stereotypically associated with 4w5 but on a deeper level I'm pretty sold on 4w3.... I am someone with more balanced wings than many, though. That said, a lot of 4s would withdraw.. I know people who are more blatant 4w3s (no case for 5 wing at all) who would withdraw like I would. But I also know some 4s who are more blunt about it ... so it might not be type related.
 

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Yeah.. I hate being in limbo too.. and I wish I were more like you, more able to just put my heart out there and risk rejection. I just suck at that.

I'm happily married now, but I still need to work on this for reasons other than relationships (like at work, friendships etc) or even just to be sure I'd communicate honestly with my husband if I should ever end up feeling rejected by something, instead of closing off and creating distance.


Yeah..
I can relate to "when I really decide to leave, there is no turning back." That's me also. I don't tend to have the problem of putting up with bullshit or persevering though. My problems lie more in confessing feelings in the first place. Once I'm in a relationship I'm pretty quick to cut that off if someone is stepping on me in any way. It doesn't mean I'd get over them emotionally overnight, but if I've seen the "fatal flaw" in the relationship I don't really see the point in lingering and prolonging the process of divorcing myself from it emotionally, by subjecting myself to more of their bullshit. I'd rather be left alone to deal with my feelings.


Yeah it could be worth looking into all of it for sure. :) Plus even if it doesn't apply to you it can always help to learn more about types.

I mistyped several times - at 5, 3 and 8 .. (years ago).. before I reached 4.. because of stereotypes about 4 that didn't apply to me, but in the end, I learned they don't apply to any 4s per se. I'll also admit I mistyped partially out of stubbornness and refusal to acknowledge some things about myself. :(


Yeah, I had typed at 4w5 for a while for various reasons. I have some things stereotypically associated with 4w5 but on a deeper level I'm pretty sold on 4w3.... I am someone with more balanced wings than many, though. That said, a lot of 4s would withdraw.. I know people who are more blatant 4w3s (no case for 5 wing at all) who would withdraw like I would. But I also know some 4s who are more blunt about it ... so it might not be type related.

Yeah, I also guess that it can depends on your experiences and on the situation. I quite agree with a lot of things in your last post, the difference doesn't seem so big now.

I've just look at 468 tritype, and it makes total sense.
I have to admit that I didn't want to have 6 in my tritype because my best friend is a 6, and even though I like her (of course), I really can't stand her "phobic side", it really pissing me off. As I am not like that at all, I was assuming that there was no way I could have a 6 fix or being a 6.

But 468 is actually conter phobic because of the 8 fix. 468 are called the "truth-teller" archetype, so that makes total sense with what we've just said !

" 468 push for a response while 459 move away."
"seeking to call off the truth before moving forward"
"the type in each center that is "truth telling" and tends to be the most reactive, even hyperreactive"
"468 - Inquisitive and direct 4. Most rebellious, reactive and direct 4, especially if sexual subtype."

Thanks, you've just made me realize that there is a very big chance I am a 468 :p

A sentence I just found on a thread and that I really like : love your 4, hate your 4 but don't ignore your 4

It is very accurate for me ...
 

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I always tested as a 4 but I didn't really see myself in what the profiles said about fours. Being somewhat "different" is a struggle. I have always been trying to fit in, not to be weird or strange, honestly, I never saw my weirdness as an advantage. I worry too much about what people say to be extravagant.
But I am glad that I'm not the only one who used to be mistyped. (Until I discovered this forum, I read that the sixes were either scared little human beings or risk-taking crazies. Maybe I just didn't look up more info because I was afraid od being overwhelmed... haha)
 

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I always tested as a 4 but I didn't really see myself in what the profiles said about fours. Being somewhat "different" is a struggle. I have always been trying to fit in, not to be weird or strange, honestly, I never saw my weirdness as an advantage. I worry too much about what people say to be extravagant.
But I am glad that I'm not the only one who used to be mistyped. (Until I discovered this forum, I read that the sixes were either scared little human beings or risk-taking crazies. Maybe I just didn't look up more info because I was afraid od being overwhelmed... haha)
So, what makes you a 6 rather than a social 4 (who feels different, but wants to fit in) with 6 in the tritype, for instance?

Here are ressources you may already know: Here , Here and Here.
 

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Thank you very much for the links. I didn't know them. Now I am doubting myself again.
I may sound like a socal 4, but really, I don't think that my deepest desire is to be authentic (sorry if I am wrong - but that is the main thing for this type, isn't it?) And I never considered myself an artist, in fact, I am a very rational person, although I do write poetry. Maybe it's just me refusing the possibility of being a 4, because the description of type 6 makes me feel much better.
Well, nevermind. Thank you, I am going to look at the links
 

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Thank you very much for the links. I didn't know them. Now I am doubting myself again.
I may sound like a socal 4, but really, I don't think that my deepest desire is to be authentic (sorry if I am wrong - but that is the main thing for this type, isn't it?) And I never considered myself an artist, in fact, I am a very rational person, although I do write poetry. Maybe it's just me refusing the possibility of being a 4, because the description of type 6 makes me feel much better.
Well, nevermind. Thank you, I am going to look at the links
I have no opinion about your actual type, but I asked the question because you did not sound clear about what makes the core of your enneatype. You have to check the fundamentals aspects of each type and make sure they are more emphasized in your psyche than aspects of other enneatypes. Here is a post I made a few weeks ago on what to check to distinguish between 4 and 6: Here

And also this resource from the enneagram institute
 
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