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Discussion Starter #1
Maybe I'm just being cynical here, but doesn't it seem like most enneatypes are common among people with similar childhoods or traumas?

I'm a 6, and I was raised by a narcissistic mother. The lack of stability, trust and commitment I had in my family relations seems to have led me to deeply desire these things later in life, and gave me a lot of trust issues. The book I'm reading on Narcissism describes most children raised by a narcissistic parent as craving stability and commitment, constantly worrying, pretty much all the typical 6 traits. Furthermore, all of the 6s I've met seem to have similar issues relating to dysfunctional families and/or abuse.

My boyfriend is a 5, and he has a lot of childhood trauma including physical, sexual and psychological abuse. He also witnessed abuse second-hand of his loved ones, and has been generally ignored by his family. This caused him to emotionally and physically withdraw from the world, and never expect much from anyone or give much of himself, fearing this kind of abuse. The only other 5 I know was not abused, but had little to no relationship with either of his parents, which can lead to similar behavior. I have a 5 wing myself, and notice that I am extremely hesitant to ask for help or offer it because of the way my family ignored me and any attempts I made to help as a child.

I've been noticing that many people I know seem to have a unique type of upbringing or adult trauma that has led them to act as a certain enneatype. I need to know: Do most types share similar upbringings, or are these just unnatural occurrences? Is enneatype something that you develop depending on your situation?
 

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I remember hearing somewhere the 'quotient' that produces a five child: overbearing mother, emotionally absent father.

Idk. It matches up with a profile of my friend.

Myself, I'm genetically predisposed to E6, and I think that's the biggest factor. Even though I would cringe for my family to read this, I felt quite neglected growing up, like something crucial was 'missing' from my upbringing ... Maybe it's simply because I'm a highly sensitive person. Rather, my bro is a 9w8, he's as solid as a board. That's genetically predisposed in our family too, and I have a 9w1 fix.

I believe its dependent on genetics, as well as the individual. My child hood was not bad compared to society's standards, but in me everything is amplified. Blakdjfal.
 
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You're inclined to think as your enneatype, so if you are a type 6 you may well think that your parents weren't supportive enough, that you didn't have guidance, security etc. whether you actually did or not. A type 6 will look for logical reasons to their issues, they are usually the guys that bring up this questions because that's what they do, they question and believe that the environment shapes us. So they go to parents/upbringing to find reasons for their insecurities.

In contrast a 9 may think it's all the results of genetics, and that nothing really changes anything. That no amount of abuse would make any significant difference.

All types may project their shortcomings on their parents. They conjure traumas whether it's real/reasonable or not. Also type is very much genetic ;).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You're inclined to think as your enneatype, so if you are a type 6 you may well think that your parents weren't supportive enough, that you didn't have guidance, security etc. whether you actually did or not. A type 6 will look for logical reasons to their issues, they are usually the guys that bring up this questions because that's what they do, they question and believe that the environment shapes us. So they go to parents/upbringing to find reasons for their insecurities.

In contrast a 9 may think it's all the results of genetics, and that nothing really changes anything. That no amount of abuse would make any significant difference.

All types may project their shortcomings on their parents. They conjure traumas whether it's real/reasonable or not. Also type is very much genetic ;).
My mother was a classic narcissist. She refused to ever touch me, saying that it felt gross. If it makes you sleep better at night to say that people who report having terrible families are making it up, be my guest. I've had a lot of x-friends say the same. I know what I went through. This isn't "projecting" things onto my parents. My mother left me alone for days with strangers and boyfriends because she didn't want to see me. One of them molested me when I was four years old, and she sent me right back after I told her. She never once took me to the doctor when I was dangerously ill, even when we had great insurance, saying it wasn't worth the 20 minute drive. She gave my college fund to her boyfriend when he threatened to leave her, thinking she could buy him back. And when she had a bad day, she would scream obscenities and insults at me starting at age 7, tell me that I'm an evil child and am incapable of being loved or appreciated. She threatened to disown me, and said, "Don't bother going to your relatives; nobody wants you." I was forced to take care of her when she was sick or depressed, but she wouldn't even lift a hand when I had a 103 degree fever. "You're fine, stop being lazy."

If you want to continue being a stuck-up ass, please politely fuck off.
 

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*Enters to hopefully bridge a gap* I don't think the argument was that sixes tend to think they were abused and weren't. I think being a six means you're a six whether you suffered abuse or not. You can have PTSD and be a six and you can also be a six without PTSD.

If you are a six, the probability that you will search for answers and discover that you have conditions such as PTSD is very likely. Sixes are always scanning. We scan others and ourselves. We look for the inconsistency and flaws.

I've heard that sixes do tend to be highly sensitive to abuses of power when we are young. It affects us deeply. That would make sense since we are sixes and are hyper aware of power balances.

I'm a 6w7 and I rarely ask for help or protection. But I also have a 2 fix. I might not ask for help because I:
1. don't want to be dependent on someone else
2. the anxiety has made me too scattered to realize there might be help available
3. (I believe this is from my 2 fix) I have too much pride in admitting I need help.

I also have PTSD and have suffered trauma. I don't think those things necessarily made me a six. However, I do think I grew up not feeling "grounded" and secure. I didn't trust my gut or my own voice. I was "compliant". That in itself made me a target for many predators and to get re-traumatized.

Perhaps the reason I am constantly analyzing myself and others is because I've always been determined to find that inner state of peace. Anxiety has never been a comfortable state.
 

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Maybe I'm just being cynical here, but doesn't it seem like most enneatypes are common among people with similar childhoods or traumas?

I'm a 6, and I was raised by a narcissistic mother. The lack of stability, trust and commitment I had in my family relations seems to have led me to deeply desire these things later in life, and gave me a lot of trust issues. The book I'm reading on Narcissism describes most children raised by a narcissistic parent as craving stability and commitment, constantly worrying, pretty much all the typical 6 traits. Furthermore, all of the 6s I've met seem to have similar issues relating to dysfunctional families and/or abuse.

My boyfriend is a 5, and he has a lot of childhood trauma including physical, sexual and psychological abuse. He also witnessed abuse second-hand of his loved ones, and has been generally ignored by his family. This caused him to emotionally and physically withdraw from the world, and never expect much from anyone or give much of himself, fearing this kind of abuse. The only other 5 I know was not abused, but had little to no relationship with either of his parents, which can lead to similar behavior. I have a 5 wing myself, and notice that I am extremely hesitant to ask for help or offer it because of the way my family ignored me and any attempts I made to help as a child.

I've been noticing that many people I know seem to have a unique type of upbringing or adult trauma that has led them to act as a certain enneatype. I need to know: Do most types share similar upbringings, or are these just unnatural occurrences? Is enneatype something that you develop depending on your situation?
If you look around on the subforums for each type a bit, you will find threads called "parental orientation" by MyLittleBlackHeart. They describe the connection of childhood experiences to each enneatype. Don't know how true they are, but I related to the type 7 one very well.
 

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What Pink said. I didn't mean to imply anything like that, all I meant to do was to try and answer your questions.

The main point was, that from my POV, type isn't the result of trauma or upbringing. I tried to explain why, didn't mean to be a stuck-up while doing so. Sorry!
 

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I, too, grew up in a turbulent home. Physical and psychology abuse, mainly. However, I'm not sure how much of the trauma led to me being a 5w6, or even an INTP. If anything, my cognitive functions probably "saved" me from the loony bin because I made a conscious decision as a child to distant myself emotionally from my environment or risk losing my mind completely.
 

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I've been wondering about this for a while now, and I have come to the conclusion that it is inborn. Also the tritype. However, I believe that your life experiences like shape the way you travel along the health/unhealthy axis of each type. Like, for example, a bad childhood with abuse and neglect etc, might make you take longer to reach the state of 'transcendence' of your type, but at the same time like it opens new roads; heightens the potential. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. Heh...
 

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This article tries to explain some parental upbringing, but it doesn't address abuse or trauma. The Wisdom of the Enneagram (Riso and Hudson) does, though, if I remember correctly.

Honestly, I think it's a combination of nature and nurture (yay 6 and 9 fixes!). My mother and her father are both Sixes, so that makes their children genetically predisposed to a reactive temperament. My sister is a 7w6, I'm a 6w7, and we both likely have 4 fixes. We responded to our worries as children differently: my sister kept busy with activities while I distracted myself and relied on others. Neither of us were abused--my mother (6-9-2 triad) is very loving and my father (8-6-2 or 8-7-2), while not always "available," is a fairly good guy--so I can't claim anything like that. At most, I can claim that my health issues affected the family, which is true but not really as bad as it sounds; I don't consider my childhood traumatic just because I was in and out of hospitals. Whether or not my sister considers hers a bad childhood up for debate, I suppose, since I haven't asked.

Hziegel, I'm very sorry to hear about what you went through. You're right, the situations one goes through while growing up does affect one's personality. I think, though, that this is to a point. For example, maybe if my peers were more accepting, I wouldn't withdraw heavily from the slightest bit of rejection. However, there are some people who bounce back quickly from the same thing, so it's truly hard to say which is the real cause.
 

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Riso and Hudson in The Wisdom of the Enneagram says this:

As newborn babies, we arrived in the world with natural, innate needs that had to be met for us to develop into mature human beings. However, even in the best circumstances, our parents inevitably could not meet all of our developmental needs perfectly. No matter how well our needs, especially those that had not been adequately met in themselves. As babies, it is our nature to express a wide range of emotions and states of being. If these qualities are blocked in our parents, they will feel anxious and uncomfortable whenever those qualities arise in us. This made our infant selves anxious and unhappy.

If, for example, a baby is expressing her joyfulness and delight in being alive, but her mother is depressed, it is unlikely that the mother will feel comfortable with the baby's joy. As a result, the baby learns to suppress her joy to keep the mother from getting more upset. Another baby with a different temperament might cry or make stronger attempts to get a reaction from the mother, but no matter what response the baby uses, her own joy is not mirrored. It is important to realize that these reactions did not occur because our parents were "bad" but because they could only mirror the qualities that were not blocked in themselves. This limited-and often dysfunctional-range of behaviors and attitudes become imprinted on the child's receptive soul as the psychic backdrop that the child brings into life and all future relationships.

As a result of unmet infant needs and subsequent blockages, we begin to feel very early in life that certain key elements in us are missing. Naturally, this feeling creates deep anxiety. It is likely that our innate temperament determines how we may respond to that anxiety, but no matter what our later personality type, we eventually come to the conclusion that there is something fundamentally wrong with us. Even if we cannot express it in words, we feel the tug of a powerful, unconscious anxiety-our Basic Fear. Pg. 31-32
 

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Wow, Lav, that's very constructive. Please elaborate.
 
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I remember hearing somewhere the 'quotient' that produces a five child: overbearing mother, emotionally absent father.
I don't think it would apply to all type Fives. My own mother was quite loving and not very overbearing at all - she was quite a creative parent and person and I think a lot of my more positive traits come from her. My father wasn't emotionally absent, but he doesn't show a lot of emotion and does hide his feelings a lot.

Also, wouldn't having such parents mean that all siblings, whether there be two, three or more, be the same enneagram type?
 

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Wow, Lav, that's very constructive. Please elaborate.
Only because you've asked so nicely...

Just because "Riso and Hudson" come up with that theory, doesn't mean that it is the accurate representation of reality (they would be solving the long standing nature vs nurture debate otherwise). I read that paragraph, passed it through the filter of my own mind, and thought that it was inaccurate. Now you are free to agree with this or not. I came to my own conclusion (which are never definitive in me btw) with my own observation of babies, and other stuff. But then I noticed that perhaps this is simply a bias that each enneatype contains: one six (I'm guessing w5) is trying to find a "cause" for the type, another six refers to a higher authority to tell them the answer, while a four says that it is inborn. Maybe we can't know for sure :shocked:
 

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In the same way that no two siblings will be raised in the exact same conditions, I don't think it would apply for Enneagram either, Sky. The Enneagram boils down to fixations, fixations often adopted to supplement a lack, or perhaps an extreme. People have their own concepts of the difficulty/ease they had growing up. Degree of it doesn't really matter, as it's on the child's genetics and own unique sense of perception.

Personally, I was raised by a single, INFP mother. She was emotionally guarded, but had her own strong as hell emotions; I never saw those. Nothing was really expected of me, and I didn't have it too bad (aside from being poor). My childhood is what I consider to be hollow; an overly neutral mess, nothing.

I can see how a 3 would evolve from my situation, but I don't think it's really universal. How a child responds to their parents would strike me as more important than how a parent acts. Hell, my sister ended up being an ENFP 4w3, same upbringing, different interpretations of it.
 

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Only because you've asked so nicely...

Just because "Riso and Hudson" come up with that theory, doesn't mean that it is the accurate representation of reality (they would be solving the long standing nature vs nurture debate otherwise).
I honestly don't know who here has stated that because Riso and Hudson stated it that it's 100% an accurate description of reality. Please give us all credit in having our own minds and the ability to deliberate over input, thank you.

I read that paragraph, passed it through the filter of my own mind, and thought that it was inaccurate. Now you are free to agree with this or not. I came to my own conclusion (which are never definitive in me btw) with my own observation of babies, and other stuff. But then I noticed that perhaps this is simply a bias that each enneatype contains: one six (I'm guessing w5) is trying to find a "cause" for the type, another six refers to a higher authority to tell them the answer, while a four says that it is inborn. Maybe we can't know for sure :shocked:
Or maybe I just posted the excerpt from The Wisdom of the Enneagram in response to Paradigm's comment and for us all to be on the same page with some things Riso and Hudson have said.

This article tries to explain some parental upbringing, but it doesn't address abuse or trauma. The Wisdom of the Enneagram (Riso and Hudson) does, though, if I remember correctly.
 

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okay my bad. then what do you think about that excerpt that you posted? do you agree with it, yes no? why?
 

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okay my bad. then what do you think about that excerpt that you posted? do you agree with it, yes no? why?
I've pretty much stated my thoughts in my own words on my first post. Did you not read it?
 

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Yep I did and I actually stopped for second and reflected on it, I just didn't notice that the one posting the Riso-Hudson excerpt was the same person. That was my mistake. It was a knee-jerk reaction (it bothers me when people do that thing -- post an excerpt about something from an "expert" etc). But on the light side I'd say that this incident portrays that you are pretty confidently an ENFP, since even your dual rushed to your aid. Nevermind..
 
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