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Do you two types get on well? How would you balance out, if you had to work together?

This may be related to another thread I have posted here. But just wondering.
 

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From my own observations, ENFJs don't like to share information.
They really believe in working hard to get to where they are, while we just want to get there.
They get butthurt if we end up with the same grades when they spent twice or more time working on it.
For an easy example, i'll compare an INTJ with an ENFJ.
If an ENTJ asks an INTJ a question, the INTJ will answer automatically while the ENFJ would want the ENTJ to go find it out on their own.
They tend to be more competitive... that's my opinion.
 

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I've had two ENFJ friends: one girl and one guy. My father is an ENFJ.

Both friends self-identify as leader types, but when they are aware that the area concerned is not their expertise, they have deferred to my leadership often times. They have also become passive once my Te goes into work since they acknowledge I can execute things more effectively and efficiently. Basically, they know I can get it done.

My dad tends to be a leader (especially since he is the head of the family), but when he knows I know better and when it comes to execution, I take the reins.

I have found them to be very sensitive people that are easily affected by criticism, even if they would not like to admit it. THEY NEVER ADMIT THAT THEY ARE SENSITIVE TO CRITICISM SO WATCH OUT! DON'T CRITICIZE THEM!

For example, I would state a matter-of-fact truth about how my father should have approached a certain situation because it could have turned out better than what had happened. He responds by vehemently defending his decisions (although objective truth leads to explain otherwise) and usually (even by a random single word) escalates into a shouting match (from him not me). I usually appear to be calm and almost amused (people tell me I look like I am having fun pushing his buttons), stating objective arguments while he defends his choices in a more "personal" standpoint and being very emotionally high-strung. I usually wait for him to finish his tirade and then allow him to calm down. A few minutes/hours later he will realize that he is wrong, and then apologize. BUT, make no mistake: he will take it personally. A few days/weeks later he will use whatever had just transpired today IF he can to use it against me to take a jab at me. At that future point in time, I had already forgotten about my emotional state then when we had that previous argument. This is how I know that as an ENTJ, I don't take things personally and as an ENFJ, my dad takes things personally A LOT.

As for my ENFJ friends, I have not expressed criticism on them or argued with them. My approach for them is by asking questions, so that they can realize their logical mistakes on their own and that the criticism does not come directly from me. Although I have found both of them to be very respectful of me. They may voice their disagreements, but these occurrences are rare and are expressed very politely. But I think they do take things personally as well. When my ENFJ male friend plays on a team sport and he is on the receiving end of a trash talk, he gets affected by it very easily, to the point that he feels that it defines him as a "player" since there is "some truth" in it. As an ENTJ, I couldn't care less what others think of me, because I juxtapose myself to an objective standard, and I know that I am performing well. Thus, it would be helpful to compliment ENFJs, because they consider your words weighty (especially if you are significant to them).

What I dislike about their motivation is that they are too idealistic. They have so many dreams and ideas that they freely share to me (which all sound great in paper) however it is almost always never expressed how they are going to execute it. That is when I come in and usually ask them how they are going to do it, and they usually respond in either a blank or an optimistic view that someone they "know" will help execute such plans.

Another thing I noticed about ENFJs are that they are very particular. They express this in an almost "aristocratic" sense. If they want that ONE thing, they will get it. I find them to be very satisfied if you ask them exactly what they want if you want to get them something. This could be good if what they want meets my ENTJ high standards but it could be disadvantageous if that particular preference is not something useful.

ENFJs are very prone to moods and are ENSLAVED by their moods. All my life, my father has been struggling with moods. Even if I am objectively correct, I have learned not to argue with him if he is not in the mood. A simple traffic violation that I would point out could set him off if he is not in the mood. I realized that there is not point teaching him the right thing during those times because he will never understand it anyway. He will remember though that he expressed a bad mood and he will apologize once he calms down.
As for my male ENFJ friend, when he is in his moods, he will march to his room and isolate himself. He will act like he doesn't know me. That's when I know he is not in the mood. I had learned from my father not to engage, so I don't. One time, I had lunch with my ENFJ male friend and his SO, and he received a text that altered his mood 180! I couldn't believe it! His SO and I went on ignoring him and waited for his sullen mood to fizz out for a while. My ENFJ female friend is more considerate and tries her best not to make others as collateral to her negative moods, so I have found her to express her moods in an amicable verbal way, which I appreciate from her. Overall, ENFJs are moody! So anticipate that and make space for it! As an ENTJ, I never understood it, but I have learned to work around it.

On the flipside, we have a huge similarity, and that is probably our method of gaining information. Ni-Se works similarly between us, although our motivations for learning may be different. So in this case, we can communicate on the same wavelength when it comes to learning. Planning things is great with them! Brainstorming ideas is a lot of fun since they are very open to a lot of great ideas!

What I love about them is that they are very sweet people and I can tell that they do want to help when they can (usually they can't offer me anything because I tend to be driven and self-sufficient). They are also peacemakers by default. They want to make sure that everyone is comfortable. For example, when my ENFJ male friend saw me get into argumentative mode with my other rooommate (I appear angry but I'm not), he was so quick to try to calm things down. My dad does this as well when he sees me arguing with my ESTJ mom (who is very persistent!). I also enjoying having them express my thoughts to others (usually we agree on such thoughts) because they come off less direct and more diplomatic than coming from me. Although I have been known to speak diplomatically, it can still be hard to swallow for some. If coming from ENFJs, they seem "harmless."

I also enjoy sharing my ideas with them a lot because they "get" me. I do not have to go extra lengths to explain what I mean because of the similar perceiving functions of Ni-Se. With both my friends, I can have very very very long talks with them. My dad can't stop talking if he gets started on one subject of his interest; I roll my eyes when this happens.

Overall, ENFJs are great! Just make sure to be careful not to hurt their feelings. They are very sensitive. But they can be great friends and allies and you can have fun hanging out with them!
 

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All I can tell is that they gossip a lot. Which is probably good since that means I have nothing particular I find lacking about their work.
 

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My brother's an ENFJ and I've had a few ENFJ friends.

I find them to be almost terrifyingly idealistic. They often cling to the idea of themselves as "pure", "good", "honest", etc. and will defend it to the death, even to the point of delusion. They usually think they're being socially acceptable and that nobody has a problem with what they're doing, but they sometimes don't realize how emotional they're being.

They also take things really, really personally. I remember one time my ESxJ sister beat my ENFJ brother at a game, and he came back inside and demanded a rematch for fifteen straight minutes. When she agreed and threw the game, because he was raging at her and looked like he was about to beat her up (he has a lot of anger management issues), he accused her of losing the game on purpose and then yelled at her for not playing for real.

However, they also forgive and forget. If something is forgiven, it's genuinely forgotten about, and you can count on them to be there for you in a pinch. They can be people-pleasers, but they also stand their ground and stand up for people who are being bullied.

They honestly kind of scare me, but I can make polite conversation with them and talk to them about deep subjects. They're really good conversationalists when they're in the right frame of mind, like @Eosin said. And I enjoy teasing them- they're very easy to wind up. I probably shouldn't do that, but it's really fun.
 

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All I can tell is that they gossip a lot. Which is probably good since that means I have nothing particular I find lacking about their work.
I don't gossip. I might ask for an advice when I see someone I care for struggling with something or when I'm worried, but I never do it just for the sake of people "knowing things for their advantages". Everyone has secrets and things they don't necessarily want to share, and I respect it. It seems like other ENFJs I know are also like that, so I have no idea what got you to this conclusion.

My brother's an ENFJ and I've had a few ENFJ friends.

I find them to be almost terrifyingly idealistic. They often cling to the idea of themselves as "pure", "good", "honest", etc. and will defend it to the death, even to the point of delusion. They usually think they're being socially acceptable and that nobody has a problem with what they're doing, but they sometimes don't realize how emotional they're being.

They also take things really, really personally. I remember one time my ESxJ sister beat my ENFJ brother at a game, and he came back inside and demanded a rematch for fifteen straight minutes. When she agreed and threw the game, because he was raging at her and looked like he was about to beat her up (he has a lot of anger management issues), he accused her of losing the game on purpose and then yelled at her for not playing for real.

However, they also forgive and forget. If something is forgiven, it's genuinely forgotten about, and you can count on them to be there for you in a pinch. They can be people-pleasers, but they also stand their ground and stand up for people who are being bullied.

They honestly kind of scare me, but I can make polite conversation with them and talk to them about deep subjects. They're really good conversationalists when they're in the right frame of mind, like @Eosin said. And I enjoy teasing them- they're very easy to wind up. I probably shouldn't do that, but it's really fun.
I believe what your brother did was due to anger management problems and not to him being an ENFJ. I think healthy ENFJs wouldn't act like that over losing a simple game (I promise I'm not trying to offend you brother!). We do have proportions, and even if we do ask for a rematch, we do it in a positive way.

It's funny you say "we" scare you. This is my first post here on the ENTJ forum (well, the second, since my first one was somewhat inconsiderate and tactless and I was just acting like an idiot and got chased away, but yeah) and I'm here because I'm trying to get over MY fear of you.

What @Eosin said might be true from your perspective (I obviously don't see the ENFJ typical behavior in a negative way, though he made some excellent points), but I just don't get it. And I want to understand you better, don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to say is I'm here 'cause I want to better communicate with you. It might be hard for me and for some of you, maybe, but I'm ready for it.

Let the discussion begin!

But please, be gentle.
 

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@Merry in Sunshine before someone a bit blunter than me beats me to it- gentleness isn't really our thing :tongue:

We can be pretty terrifying, but we don't bite and we're not mean (usually). What in particular scares you? That might be the best place to start.
 
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@Merry in Sunshine My exposure to (RL) ENFJ were only two (male) specimens, and both avid gossipers. I did not say it... as necessarily a bad thing/negative trait, but it stood out as something they both share.
 

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@Merry in Sunshine before someone a bit blunter than me beats me to it- gentleness isn't really our thing :tongue:

We can be pretty terrifying, but we don't bite and we're not mean (usually). What in particular scares you? That might be the best place to start.
I know, so I've heard, but I just felt the need to say this. I will remind myself though that even if you do sound harsh, you don't necessarily do it on a personal matter. I think. Correct if I'm wrong, I'm here to learn, not to fight with anyone.

I'm just... Appreciate you from afar. You don't seem to be scared of anything (usually) and you're so full of self confidence, most of the time in a good way, and you don't find reasons to back down from the things you care for. If you something, you just do whatever it takes and you get it, quickly and efficiently. To me, it's somewhat admirable. I could never work like that towards a goal without feeling scared that I might be hurting someone on the way. My insecurities often lead to me working slowly and for me losing sight of the goal and just focusing on the way.

Sometimes I'm scared you might push me down if I stand in your way. I find it hard to trust people who see only the goal in their eyes. I'm not saying that's all you care for and that all ENTJs are the same, but that's the general feeling I got from people I suspect were ENTJs that are no longer in my life for different reasons. I want to stop feeling so scared of feeling that way again, and hopefully meet ENTJs who will give me a better experience.

@Merry in Sunshine My exposure to (RL) ENFJ were only two (male) specimens, and both avid gossipers. I did not say it... as necessarily a bad thing/negative trait, but it stood out as something they both share.
I understand. I don't know what situations these people were in, and maybe it's not even really about gossiping but more about how different people perceive caring for others. However, I will not jump into conclusions as I was proved wrong in the past for making assumptions right away. Again, I'm here to learn and to listen to what you have to say, and not to judge anyone.
 

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I know, so I've heard, but I just felt the need to say this. I will remind myself though that even if you do sound harsh, you don't necessarily do it on a personal matter. I think. Correct if I'm wrong, I'm here to learn, not to fight with anyone.

I'm just... Appreciate you from afar. You don't seem to be scared of anything (usually) and you're so full of self confidence, most of the time in a good way, and you don't find reasons to back down from the things you care for. If you something, you just do whatever it takes and you get it, quickly and efficiently. To me, it's somewhat admirable. I could never work like that towards a goal without feeling scared that I might be hurting someone on the way. My insecurities often lead to me working slowly and for me losing sight of the goal and just focusing on the way.

Sometimes I'm scared you might push me down if I stand in your way. I find it hard to trust people who see only the goal in their eyes. I'm not saying that's all you care for and that all ENTJs are the same, but that's the general feeling I got from people I suspect were ENTJs that are no longer in my life for different reasons. I want to stop feeling so scared of feeling that way again, and hopefully meet ENTJs who will give me a better experience.
Most things aren't personal with us. We're really not easily offended- if we have a dispute or something you might consider an argument, it's because we see that as the fastest way to solve a problem and get a solution. It's usually not meant personally, and we've honestly probably forgotten it by the next hour. If we hate you, you will be able to tell.

That's a pretty big different between the ENJs- ENFJs are scared of hurting people, and we just don't think about it. I guess I assume most people aren't going to be super sensitive, and if they are then that's their problem, not mine. I have shit to do.

Could you clarify what you mean by "only the goal"? If you're getting pushed away, that's either a. bullying or b. a harried ENTJ who thinks you're being stupid. (Sorry.)
 

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I know, so I've heard, but I just felt the need to say this. I will remind myself though that even if you do sound harsh, you don't necessarily do it on a personal matter. I think. Correct if I'm wrong, I'm here to learn, not to fight with anyone.

I'm just... Appreciate you from afar. You don't seem to be scared of anything (usually) and you're so full of self confidence, most of the time in a good way, and you don't find reasons to back down from the things you care for. If you something, you just do whatever it takes and you get it, quickly and efficiently. To me, it's somewhat admirable. I could never work like that towards a goal without feeling scared that I might be hurting someone on the way. My insecurities often lead to me working slowly and for me losing sight of the goal and just focusing on the way.

Sometimes I'm scared you might push me down if I stand in your way. I find it hard to trust people who see only the goal in their eyes. I'm not saying that's all you care for and that all ENTJs are the same, but that's the general feeling I got from people I suspect were ENTJs that are no longer in my life for different reasons. I want to stop feeling so scared of feeling that way again, and hopefully meet ENTJs who will give me a better experience.



I understand. I don't know what situations these people were in, and maybe it's not even really about gossiping but more about how different people perceive caring for others. However, I will not jump into conclusions as I was proved wrong in the past for making assumptions right away. Again, I'm here to learn and to listen to what you have to say, and not to judge anyone.

@Merry in Sunshine

Interestingly, I am feeling this somewhat distrust towards the ENFJ male that I mentioned. He seems to be vacillating when it comes to being friendly and being open and private with me. To me, it appears that it is some form of emotional manipulation. The thing with me is, I don't bite into these things--I am very direct. I don't play these games--I have no time for it. As an ENTJ, if I dislike you, you will know (literally). If I like you, you will be one of the most important people in my life, and I will give you time because you deserve it.

You see, I'd like to encourage you not to be afraid of us. As far as we trying to get to our goals, if you are someone we like, we will PULL you up there with us; there will be no sense that you are in the way. In fact, if you are really that person we trust and do like and love, even if you are that weak link, we will do our best to empower you and "pull you up" with us. We don't steamroll people just for fun or because we feel like it; we steamroll people if we know that they deserve to be steamrolled because (a) they are causing the problems and (b) are unwilling to work with us. If you are the problem but you are willing to learn and work with us, we will not steamroll you--we will empower you.

Back to the ENFJ. I don't really understand if he really needs my help or not. He asks help doing things, and then once I am ready to help and I have already started investing myself in helping out, he pulls out and tells me everything is fine. He has done this multiple times and it annoys me because I don't really understand what he wants me to do. He does this with advice as well. He asks for my advice and then I offer it generously because I want his best interests, and then later on he will be completely private about something I could have contributed generously. I mean, what is up with this? Is this a trust-distrust cycle? Am I being tested? It upsets me if I am being tested, because I have always invested greatly in all of the ENFJs in my life through service, deeds, and giving. I may not be sweetest person to compliment them, but I show it in actions, and I think I have proven myself. It's really messed up.

I can see that the ENFJ male has a lot of insecurities, and I am so ready to give a pep talk and offer practical ways to overcome them and to empower himself, but he seems to give me a facade that "he's got it" although I can see through him. Thus, he is still trapped in that silly cycle of insecurity and security-self denial. We as ENTJs will not exploit your weaknesses especially if we like you or are important to us. We value honesty and openness. Being in your head deciding whether you really "got what it takes" or not is a waste of time for us; you just gotta get your hands dirty and do whatever it takes to get there.

But regardless of how he acts (and other ENFJs in my life), I still do care about them and they mean a lot to me. Like you @Merry in Sunshine, I merely want to understand this peculiar behavior.


BTW, you are right in that we are not scared of anything. We are definitely go-getters and I think it is one of the reasons why people are intimidated by us.
 

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Most things aren't personal with us. We're really not easily offended- if we have a dispute or something you might consider an argument, it's because we see that as the fastest way to solve a problem and get a solution. It's usually not meant personally, and we've honestly probably forgotten it by the next hour. If we hate you, you will be able to tell.

That's a pretty big different between the ENJs- ENFJs are scared of hurting people, and we just don't think about it. I guess I assume most people aren't going to be super sensitive, and if they are then that's their problem, not mine. I have shit to do.

Could you clarify what you mean by "only the goal"? If you're getting pushed away, that's either a. bullying or b. a harried ENTJ who thinks you're being stupid. (Sorry.)
LOL, that made me laugh out loud out of nowhere. I had to say that.

I agree and understand. I haven't had any ENTJs in my life for a very long time, but I believe some of the most unpleasant experiences I had were due to interacting with ENTJs. However, I can't say that for sure as I don't even know if these people were in fact ENTJs and I don't want to create a fight when not needed. I'm not here to offend innocent (bear with it) people who didn't do a thing to me by saying all of you are like that.

I'm honestly more scared of the idea of meeting people like you. As I said, I appreciate you from afar, but I know that even if I were meet ENTJs in real life, I'd probably have a hard time to trust them enough to keep them in my life. And I don't want to be scared of people who might be really great people who only think in a different way of mine.

@Merry in Sunshine

Interestingly, I am feeling this somewhat distrust towards the ENFJ male that I mentioned. He seems to be vacillating when it comes to being friendly and being open and private with me. To me, it appears that it is some form of emotional manipulation. The thing with me is, I don't bite into these things--I am very direct. I don't play these games--I have no time for it. As an ENTJ, if I dislike you, you will know (literally). If I like you, you will be one of the most important people in my life, and I will give you time because you deserve it.

You see, I'd like to encourage you not to be afraid of us. As far as we trying to get to our goals, if you are someone we like, we will PULL you up there with us; there will be no sense that you are in the way. In fact, if you are really that person we trust and do like and love, even if you are that weak link, we will do our best to empower you and "pull you up" with us. We don't steamroll people just for fun or because we feel like it; we steamroll people if we know that they deserve to be steamrolled because (a) they are causing the problems and (b) are unwilling to work with us. If you are the problem but you are willing to learn and work with us, we will not steamroll you--we will empower you.

Back to the ENFJ. I don't really understand if he really needs my help or not. He asks help doing things, and then once I am ready to help and I have already started investing myself in helping out, he pulls out and tells me everything is fine. He has done this multiple times and it annoys me because I don't really understand what he wants me to do. He does this with advice as well. He asks for my advice and then I offer it generously because I want his best interests, and then later on he will be completely private about something I could have contributed generously. I mean, what is up with this? Is this a trust-distrust cycle? Am I being tested? It upsets me if I am being tested, because I have always invested greatly in all of the ENFJs in my life through service, deeds, and giving. I may not be sweetest person to compliment them, but I show it in actions, and I think I have proven myself. It's really messed up.

I can see that the ENFJ male has a lot of insecurities, and I am so ready to give a pep talk and offer practical ways to overcome them and to empower himself, but he seems to give me a facade that "he's got it" although I can see through him. Thus, he is still trapped in that silly cycle of insecurity and security-self denial. We as ENTJs will not exploit your weaknesses especially if we like you or are important to us. We value honesty and openness. Being in your head deciding whether you really "got what it takes" or not is a waste of time for us; you just gotta get your hands dirty and do whatever it takes to get there.

But regardless of how he acts (and other ENFJs in my life), I still do care about them and they mean a lot to me. Like you @Merry in Sunshine, I merely want to understand this peculiar behavior.


BTW, you are right in that we are not scared of anything. We are definitely go-getters and I think it is one of the reasons why people are intimidated by us.
Well, I believe I'm starting to understand you. I don't know what is up with that ENFJ, but maybe he was expecting to hear something from you without thinking that you might see the same thing with a different perspective. I know that when I don't hear what I want to hear, I just ignore it, forget about it and daydream of a way to make things happen against the odds. It might mean I don't live in the reality but more in an ideal world, but for me, it keeps me going. Maybe it's the same thing that other ENFJ has felt. I will ask however - is that person aware to MBTI? I believe that once I got into knowing more about MBTI, I became more forgiving and accepting of people who are different from me. Maybe if he's not aware he might think of you in an ideal way that is just not you, and in that case - that is his problem, not yours. You can only try and make him see who you truly are, and hope he'll accept you no matter what.

It is also possible he's trying not to be a burden for you. By struggling alone, we may feel as if we're saving others from conflicts, but at times it might be too hard for us to bear this all by ourselves. Sometimes we need someone who will force us to share - we can't save the whole world, even if we try and believe it's possible. I must say that I admire what you just said - how we just need to get out there and do whatever it takes to reach a goal. You're fearless, and that's a big strength of yours. We might just worry too much and waste time.

Yes, I believe I just realized why I'm so scared of you. You're able to achieve things so quickly and efficiently without having any fears. If I were to have an ENTJ enemy, I'd probably lose. And from my experience, it just might be that the people who used to make my life a living nightmare were ENTJs. That's why I don't want to have you as my enemies, even if we have different views and opinions. I want us to get along.
 

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I'm honestly more scared of the idea of meeting people like you. As I said, I appreciate you from afar, but I know that even if I were meet ENTJs in real life, I'd probably have a hard time to trust them enough to keep them in my life. And I don't want to be scared of people who might be really great people who only think in a different way of mine.
glad I made you laugh :tongue:

So it's more the general stereotype of "ENTJs are BATSHIT TERRIFYING" that scares you? Or is it your experience with those particular suspected ENTJs?

Also, if it helps- I think one of the biggest problems Fe users have with us is that they play what we see as "games" and a waste of our time. Your waffling around to not offend people kind of comes off as "reassure me I'm nice, love me, help me feel better", which we don't really like. Also, just in general- engage in the conflict instead of running away. We respect those who engage with us logically and tell us why we're wrong. We do come off as kind of freight-train-like, so if we're being dicks, just call us out on it. We'll usually stop.
 
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LOL, that made me laugh out loud out of nowhere. I had to say that.

I agree and understand. I haven't had any ENTJs in my life for a very long time, but I believe some of the most unpleasant experiences I had were due to interacting with ENTJs. However, I can't say that for sure as I don't even know if these people were in fact ENTJs and I don't want to create a fight when not needed. I'm not here to offend innocent (bear with it) people who didn't do a thing to me by saying all of you are like that.

I'm honestly more scared of the idea of meeting people like you. As I said, I appreciate you from afar, but I know that even if I were meet ENTJs in real life, I'd probably have a hard time to trust them enough to keep them in my life. And I don't want to be scared of people who might be really great people who only think in a different way of mine.



Well, I believe I'm starting to understand you. I don't know what is up with that ENFJ, but maybe he was expecting to hear something from you without thinking that you might see the same thing with a different perspective. I know that when I don't hear what I want to hear, I just ignore it, forget about it and daydream of a way to make things happen against the odds. It might mean I don't live in the reality but more in an ideal world, but for me, it keeps me going. Maybe it's the same thing that other ENFJ has felt. I will ask however - is that person aware to MBTI? I believe that once I got into knowing more about MBTI, I became more forgiving and accepting of people who are different from me. Maybe if he's not aware he might think of you in an ideal way that is just not you, and in that case - that is his problem, not yours. You can only try and make him see who you truly are, and hope he'll accept you no matter what.

It is also possible he's trying not to be a burden for you. By struggling alone, we may feel as if we're saving others from conflicts, but at times it might be too hard for us to bear this all by ourselves. Sometimes we need someone who will force us to share - we can't save the whole world, even if we try and believe it's possible. I must say that I admire what you just said - how we just need to get out there and do whatever it takes to reach a goal. You're fearless, and that's a big strength of yours. We might just worry too much and waste time.

Yes, I believe I just realized why I'm so scared of you. You're able to achieve things so quickly and efficiently without having any fears. If I were to have an ENTJ enemy, I'd probably lose. And from my experience, it just might be that the people who used to make my life a living nightmare were ENTJs. That's why I don't want to have you as my enemies, even if we have different views and opinions. I want us to get along.
@Merry in Sunshine

He is aware that he is an ENFJ since I asked him to take the test. He identifies himself as a "guru" and did acknowledge that the ENFJ description was spot on to how he sees himself.
And you do have a point that maybe he is waiting for me to offer some sort of feedback with how he perceives things. Unfortunately, in my mind things tend to work a little differently, because I care enough about people not to lie to them about reality; I am perfectly comfortable looking like the "bad guy" as long as people get to the right path.
On the accepting end, I noticed that he probably is not the most accepting person. I can see that he values harmony between people, but that is the extent of his amicability. In fact, I may be the only person he considers his "friend" (he has somewhat mentioned this to me) in the years he has spent in the university. He says he has a wide network of acquaintances but not a lot of people he considers as a "friend." He does have a childhood best friend but that's it. Maybe it's trust issues? I find this rather odd, but then again maybe you can explain.

And you are right that it may not be my problem, but his.

As for you guys seeing yourselves as a burden, it may be related to how you guys are willing to take the burdens of others and so are more easily inclined to consider your own needs as "burdens." I see things as a two-way street. If you carry other people's burdens, you deserve to have someone else carry your own "burdens" (even if they are not even burdens). You have to be open to accepting help. Some people do actually get off on helping others. If help is needed to reach your goal, do take advantage of it. We as ENTJ's like being seen as competent and able to give some sort of support to others in reaching their goals because (1) the person we help has succeeded, (2) your goals partly become ours, and so we have also reached a goal and succeeded, and (3) it further asserts our competence and success as people because we can help others reach their goals.

And again, it is so easy to get along with us! Just be direct, honest, and real, it's that simple. If you are all that plus you have a good heart, awesome!
 

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glad I made you laugh :tongue:

So it's more the general stereotype of "ENTJs are BATSHIT TERRIFYING" that scares you? Or is it your experience with those particular suspected ENTJs?

Also, if it helps- I think one of the biggest problems Fe users have with us is that they play what we see as "games" and a waste of our time. Your waffling around to not offend people kind of comes off as "reassure me I'm nice, love me, help me feel better", which we don't really like. Also, just in general- engage in the conflict instead of running away. We respect those who engage with us logically and tell us why we're wrong. We do come off as kind of freight-train-like, so if we're being dicks, just call us out on it. We'll usually stop.
@maust so much THIS
 

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glad I made you laugh :tongue:

So it's more the general stereotype of "ENTJs are BATSHIT TERRIFYING" that scares you? Or is it your experience with those particular suspected ENTJs?

Also, if it helps- I think one of the biggest problems Fe users have with us is that they play what we see as "games" and a waste of our time. Your waffling around to not offend people kind of comes off as "reassure me I'm nice, love me, help me feel better", which we don't really like. Also, just in general- engage in the conflict instead of running away. We respect those who engage with us logically and tell us why we're wrong. We do come off as kind of freight-train-like, so if we're being dicks, just call us out on it. We'll usually stop.
I believe it's both. I believe I just types my archenemy, most hated person in my life as an ENTJ (sorry!), but yeah, it's so clear I have no idea why I it took me so long to realize it. She was my boss. We clashed. She went behind my back and told lies to the bid boss while pretending to be all nice to me for MONTHS. I got kicked out even though I gave EVERYTHING I had and got great responses and good results. It caused me to have a dark secret. It's the only dark secret I have. She got praised for things that I did with hard work and didn't even look at me. Yeah, we clashed. I hate her.

Now back to you after I let my emotions out (I can't keep them inside. They'll eat me up). Sorry, I admit I do like feeling accepted. It is, though, probably due to the fact I was bullied most of my life and wasn't accepted for who I am and just had a lot of trouble becoming the person I am today. So yep, I enjoy feeling accepted. As long it's not on other people's back I don't see it as a problem, but we have different views on it so I don't really know what to say now. :D

Hmm, too bad I didn't do it when I had the chance. It would have been a delight to talk back to that person...

But I'm different now. I don't wish to get even at anyone anymore. It's pointless. I prefer to live my life happily ever after. After having this unpleasant experience I learned to face things with a more positive outlook, while having less fears. I believe that's when I realized I am able to make people understand my intentions and do the things I want to do. Since then, life has been better for me.

In any way, I believe that even at times when I disagree with ENTJs I'd probably just gently try to compromise on things, or if we're in completely different sides, I might talk back and tell you why you're wrong. When I get mad, I take it personally, and my rage will not stop until I make my point and prove people wrong. Does that mean I'm competitive? I don't know. But I'll always try to keep things nice and harmonized and calm and happy. :)
 

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@Merry in Sunshine

He is aware that he is an ENFJ since I asked him to take the test. He identifies himself as a "guru" and did acknowledge that the ENFJ description was spot on to how he sees himself.
And you do have a point that maybe he is waiting for me to offer some sort of feedback with how he perceives things. Unfortunately, in my mind things tend to work a little differently, because I care enough about people not to lie to them about reality; I am perfectly comfortable looking like the "bad guy" as long as people get to the right path.
On the accepting end, I noticed that he probably is not the most accepting person. I can see that he values harmony between people, but that is the extent of his amicability. In fact, I may be the only person he considers his "friend" (he has somewhat mentioned this to me) in the years he has spent in the university. He says he has a wide network of acquaintances but not a lot of people he considers as a "friend." He does have a childhood best friend but that's it. Maybe it's trust issues? I find this rather odd, but then again maybe you can explain.

And you are right that it may not be my problem, but his.

As for you guys seeing yourselves as a burden, it may be related to how you guys are willing to take the burdens of others and so are more easily inclined to consider your own needs as "burdens." I see things as a two-way street. If you carry other people's burdens, you deserve to have someone else carry your own "burdens" (even if they are not even burdens). You have to be open to accepting help. Some people do actually get off on helping others. If help is needed to reach your goal, do take advantage of it. We as ENTJ's like being seen as competent and able to give some sort of support to others in reaching their goals because (1) the person we help has succeeded, (2) your goals partly become ours, and so we have also reached a goal and succeeded, and (3) it further asserts our competence and success as people because we can help others reach their goals.

And again, it is so easy to get along with us! Just be direct, honest, and real, it's that simple. If you are all that plus you have a good heart, awesome!
Guru? Wow, I'm just... I thought ENFJs had more modesty, but I guess we're all different.

LOL, I get it (finally!). You usually have good intentions, only people don't always see what you're trying to do. I feel bad for misjudging you now.

It does sound like trust issues. Most ENFJs I've known are very friendly and tend to see a friend in everyone (see how I talk to you now? Exactly). Maybe he's an unhealthy ENFJ, but I'm really not one to judge. I need to know people better to judge them well.

I believe we have found a similarity! I too think that way of supporting others and how it affects me as a person. However, I do need to find the right balance. While you seem to know exactly when something is going to hurt you more than to satisfy you, I am the opposite. Not long ago I started working at a kindergarten full time. On my first day, I told myself that if I start having too many troubles I'd quit. On the second day the troubles began, but it took me a whole month to be in the middle of constant fights with my co-workers (they always fought, I tried to be the voice of logic there but then they'd put the blame on me), get disrespectful looks and pranks from the kids there and finally, a kid spitting on my hair because he refused to get down the roof to decide to leave. I kept telling myself I'd be able to change them. Well, I'm not a professional, but that was not what I deserved for what I was giving. I'm guessing you wouldn't have stayed there another day, or somehow would've made things normal in no time.

Well, seems like I completely misjudged you. That's great though! I can proudly say I got over one of my fears today! That's definitely will be a day to remember. :)
 
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