@Sangoire, Personally I don't share your mindset/seeing someone as your teacher/ interest of searching teachers. I observe and analyze people (and life in general) all the time so I don't see people as teachers - because it's not about what they wanna teach me but what I learn by observing them. Maybe we just describe it differently but I believe that we have very different approaches to the whole learning from others thing. The fact that you chose to use the word
teacher reflects the way you see those certain people.
I find it very Fi+Si/Si+Fe to focus on the whole teacher/student layout. It's a little bit like a role play. I have seen it with my ISFJ and INFP friends. They seem to like the idea of taking a certain role and offering another role for the other person. For me it looks like your Fi+Si/Si+Fe says "I wanna feel like a student/the nerdy/brave/sensitive/artistic one in this relationship etc" and then it's just natural portraying the other person as someone/something that completes the story. In this context I would personally think that the whole idea of seeing someone as a teacher only steals the focus from the main point (observing and analyzing subject matter itself).
I wouldn't say that it's necessary a pitfall but it just always catch my eye.
This too, is interesting. Thank you for sharing your observation. My mother is an ISFJ and a teacher (as I have previously mentioned to you, when you were teaching me about Fe) ... so there is some truth in what you say about me. Teacher/student is probably my oldest pattern. As my tri-type is 9w1 4w3
5w6, it kinda makes sense that I find both security and stress in knowledge.
For me, it has always felt like people have a burning desire to teach me. Sort of like, they can't help themselves. When I ask them about it, I usually get variations on the same answer:
"You seem intelligent, but naive. How can you be so smart and so dumb, all in the same sentence?"
What a Dom Ni or Te user may not see is that, this judgement hurts my pride (Fi). It feels like someone is placing themselves above me. Most of my early years were spent trying to toughen myself up so that I could hear that answer and NOT feel threatened by it to the point of over-reacting. (Btw, for me, over-reacting = either complete withdrawal to bash myself up for my stupidity - FiSi; or verbally ripping out someone's jugular to prove my toughness - NeTe *sad sigh for both*).
The most logical way I can describe it is, I get a fear reaction and the accompanying adrenaline (fight/flight/freeze) response. I perceive that I had to learn how to use the adrenaline differently. The thing that seems to work best for me is when I opt to get excited, rather than scared.
I make an assumption that when someone lights up my brain, either positively or negatively, it is because my subconscious has detected potentially useful information. I further assume that my baby-Te is trying to connect with my Fi and form a unified judgement about THEM, so that I can excuse myself from facing ME ... in order to preserve both:
- My own model of the world; and
- My inner harmony.
So, I offer them the role of teacher ... because when my pride is invoked, historically, it has been a short step for me to fall into assuming that I know exactly what
their problem/issue/perspective is. That doesn't typically lead anywhere good, for me. I would rather be open and excited than closed and combative.
The pitfalls that I experience again and again, with that strategy, are:
- Sharing my rich inner world, makes me feel more vulnerable, and therefore makes me more likely to over-react when I perceive a challenge to it; and
- I am prone to allowing others to excite my pride until I believe all sorts of bullshit that isn't true/right/real except from their or my own model/perspective of the world.
Due to the above, I prefer to get to know someone from the outside in and then the inside out. Like you, I stand back and observe.
Unlike you/your statement, it is not for the purpose of analysing them. It is for the purpose of analysing me in relation to them. Can I pick up what they are laying down, without destabilising my rich inner world and therefore, my balance (9w1)? Can I retain my humility in their presence? Or, is it going to devolve into a ham-fisted attempt to control each other in order to make each other "see?"
Once I get a sense that I can take it, I approach and I start probing where commonalities intersect. I expose my analysis and paradigms (SiTe), in lieu of my rich inner world (FiNe). I observe how they treat my factual data ... if it demonstrates respect for humanity (both in a local and global context) I start sharing more of myself.
If I start perceiving myself as sliding back into old habits (over-reacting, making judgements about others or whatever unhealthy pattern I perceive), I cease communication. In the past, I have done so at the height of my judgement ... and in doing so, may have hurt others by insinuating that they caused my problems. These days, I try to own that I have allowed my battle with comfort/discomfort to take me back to places which are not healthy for me and I request that they respect my wish to depart their presence.
If that approach makes me appear brave/nerdy/artistic/sensitive to you, I am happy to wear those labels in your mind ... they are all great qualities. But, it is only part of how I perceive myself. :happy:
Ne drives me to understand the whole picture ... not just the parts that are immediately relevant to me/them/the situation (that's just a convenient starting point, to me). I perceive that I get a bigger picture when I step outside the safety of my perspective, rather than delude myself into thinking that I am wise in my own knowledge.
It's like when Rebecca.M shared this:
http://personalitycafe.com/entj-forum-executives/603522-relationship-questions-191.html#post38624202
I was sooo freakin' shocked ... I could NEVER speak the way she suggested to anyone in anger (except myself, ironically) let alone someone that I adore, like my ENTJ. I would perceive it as me using my fear to attack the masculinity that he uses with love, to protect, nurture and pleasure me.
But then, the ENTJ's constantly remind me that they don't NEED things to be NICE + I trust them to know what an ENTJ needs, better than I do + I hope that an ENTJ like MsBossy, Mr Canis, Handsome Jack, Duo (thank you so much for doing so in a gender-neutral context, Duo), Fumetsu, BIGJake, lordmercurio, furryfury, Red Onion, maust or bolderousness will provide an adjustment/counter-balance.
So, I thanked it ... not because I agree with Rebecca.M, but because it is so far removed from anything that I would have thought to do. It gave me a different perspective to ask my ENTJ about. (Btw, he confirmed that his 3w4 would hate that approach as much as an 8w7 would and as much as my 9w1 hates to do it).
I agree, it is a convoluted way of obtaining my data ... that's why I needed your missing piece SB. You are right, my need for knowledge/data/inspiration should not come at the cost of others. You are wiser than I, in the ways of Fe.
I have been feeling the polarisation increase along gender lines within the ENTJ sub-forum, lately, and I begin to worry about how much my scattered approach contributes to this. I am gender fluid ... I don't understand the need to divide by gender. I never have. As a child, it was my main source of frustration ... "don't tell me I should/shouldn't/can/can't because I am too <masculine/feminine/insert whatever other biological difference you perceive in me> ... everyone is more than the sum of their parts" type thinking.
So, I thank posts that help me understand it better, not necessarily just the ones that I agree with. They remind me of the harmonic societal conventions (Fe) or the unique personal harmony interpretations (Fi) that I might unwittingly trip over when I assume that my way is the only way. I simply don't think about what others may infer from my "thanks." It's why I don't do social media, as a general rule. I can't always explain/defend immediately why the data has lit me up.
I am truly sorry if I have caused anyone pain. I tend to think of ENTJ's as mentally tough enough to ignore me, call me out directly on my erroneous assumptions/bothersome behaviour or ask me questions if they are curious at a perceived disparity. I assumed that because I haven't been told directly, that I am not bothering people. You remind me that I may be, especially in light of the current political climate.
I think that I will follow the example of the ENTJ's I admire most and take a break from PerC. In their absence, I do not seem to be able to maintain my centre of balance to a high enough standard for my own comfort.
