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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The other day an ENTJ acquaintance of mine has made the remark that I'm much more moral/"feeler" than her. not so long ago she ended a 5 year relationship because another guy with more money came along. She basically doesn't care about neither of the guys. This is very unlike me. I would rather be with the person I love and work harder/have less money. Everybody else however thinks I'm cruel. I was telling an ESTJ friend how I Ended the life of a severely injured puppy because the poor thing was internally bleeding,in excruciating pain and it was in a small village where there was no veterinarian for hundreds of miles. She told me that she would have just ignored the situation and that what I did was wrong.

Generally, I believe I'm a very morally right person, even though others disagree. I wonder what the entj's stand on morality. Other types are welcome as well.
 

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We have Fi, very weak Fi, but this is what it is, the healthier side of our inferior. Morals and injustice are two things ENTJs like to fight or stand up against.

The puppy. Fi would make you feel bad if you walked away and let the poor thing suffer, Te forced you to do what is right (backed up b Fi) which you knew it was for the best.
 

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AshtangiBear is right, this is how our Te/Fi work. Amd about the ESTJ amd the puppy, I can't see why she'd reason that way (it is NOT universal for ESTJs!)
Agree with you on the money-thing with 100%! (even though that doesn't answer any question)
(and yes, I'm an ESTJ, but since this subject is about Te-dominant and Fi-inferior, I felt free to help out.)

My morality is very high (can you put it like that?)
It's very important for me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
AshtangiBear is right, this is how our Te/Fi work. Amd about the ESTJ amd the puppy, I can't see why she'd reason that way (it is NOT universal for ESTJs!)
Agree with you on the money-thing with 100%! (even though that doesn't answer any question)
(and yes, I'm an ESTJ, but since this subject is about Te-dominant and Fi-inferior, I felt free to help out.)

My morality is very high (can you put it like that?)
It's very important for me.
Yes, Te-Fi is the most important thing here so as an ESTJ you're more than qualified to express your opinion on the subject.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't higher Fi users supposed to be more interested in morals than us? I find that most people I know (most of them ExFJ/IxFP) are not that interested in doing what's right and more interested in doing what seems right at the moment (an example would be a trip I took with my fellow colleagues where we met a tiny skinny puppy along the way. We decided to give it some canned food and I insisted that the food be put on a plastic plate because the dog might cut itself with the sharp edge of the can. Everybody laughed at my proposal saying I'm being too pretentious and then the dog cut his whole side of the face and there was blood everywhere, not many of them seemed to really care, I am however sure about almost all of them being Fs, weirdly enough the only other T there was the one who seemed concerned). I see that my stories on the subject all revolve around puppies but hey, they should be rewarded for not being human.
 

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The other day an ENTJ acquaintance of mine has made the remark that I'm much more moral/"feeler" than her. not so long ago she ended a 5 year relationship because another guy with more money came along. She basically doesn't care about neither of the guys. This is very unlike me. I would rather be with the person I love and work harder/have less money. Everybody else however thinks I'm cruel. I was telling an ESTJ friend how I Ended the life of a severely injured puppy because the poor thing was internally bleeding,in excruciating pain and it was in a small village where there was no veterinarian for hundreds of miles. She told me that she would have just ignored the situation and that what I did was wrong.

Generally, I believe I'm a very morally right person, even though others disagree. I wonder what the entj's stand on morality. Other types are welcome as well.
How did you end its life?:eek:

I'm a very moral person, but I think it has to do with the way I was raised (my dad being INTJ though) I'm probably also very idealistic.
I would have ended the puppy's life too, more on that after you reply to my first question though!

I would probably be the whistle blower if I find that someone has been diverting funds from a company I'm working in; I would be the first one to call injustice and do something about it (even if my superiors try to stop me from doing so); and if I were a politician, I would need a lot of body guards because I would probably be the victim of numerous assassination attempts.

That's how moral I am. It is tied to principles and values right?

I would be really angry at the other people for not listening to me and not putting the food on a plastic bag, but I would be even more angry (specially if the wounds were serious) at myself for not having it my way. (Although, I have to say, if it were a real life experience, the food would have been served on my hands if I didn't have it my way, a.k.a. plastic bag)
 

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Yes, Te-Fi is the most important thing here so as an ESTJ you're more than qualified to express your opinion on the subject.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't higher Fi users supposed to be more interested in morals than us? I find that most people I know (most of them ExFJ/IxFP) are not that interested in doing what's right and more interested in doing what seems right at the moment (an example would be a trip I took with my fellow colleagues where we met a tiny skinny puppy along the way. We decided to give it some canned food and I insisted that the food be put on a plastic plate because the dog might cut itself with the sharp edge of the can. Everybody laughed at my proposal saying I'm being too pretentious and then the dog cut his whole side of the face and there was blood everywhere, not many of them seemed to really care, I am however sure about almost all of them being Fs, weirdly enough the only other T there was the one who seemed concerned). I see that my stories on the subject all revolve around puppies but hey, they should be rewarded for not being human.
I think it is suppose to work this way: your Fi is the same as ours, but is "less developed". By this I mean it will be more principled, more black or white, less flexible. It may have very strong reactions (Fi tend to have very strong reactions), but you will also experience them less frequently and by that also have less chances to learn how to deal with it.

For INFPs our Fi is constant. We really are aware how we feel about things and how we judge them in the very moment those happen, so we also have more occasions to develop our Fi - just the "straining the muscle" kind of thing - the more you use it the better you get at using it.

It's like us with our Te - we have it and it's the same Te as yours, but we are just not that apt at using it as you are.

As to those Fs... it seem more like the lack of imagination and decency than F/T.

Sorry if my post seem a bit chaotic. It's past the midnight over here and I am a bit tired ;)
 

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I think having morals does not mean everyone will have the same morals. On the case of the dog, I feel that it's very wrong to kill the poor dog and make the decision of life/death for it; I don't think it makes me any less moral than you are. In the end, I just might kill it because it's a better choice (Te-dom), but I don't feel it's right anyway.

As for the case with the guys, I personally have less morals about it. Until I find that true love, anyone who comes along is on a as-I-please and most-benefit basis. Hence, that is morally OK with me that your friend did that.
 

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We stand up for morals and do not budge. But we usually have self constructed morals and don't follow morals set for us.


I make my own rules and see them as fit. But I will not break my own rules.

Some things I am fine with others would find monstrous and some things I hold very tight I am commonly told should be the way everyone sees it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
We stand up for morals and do not budge. But we usually have self constructed morals and don't follow morals set for us.


I make my own rules and see them as fit. But I will not break my own rules.

Some things I am fine with others would find monstrous and some things I hold very tight I am commonly told should be the way everyone sees it.
You expressed exactly what I wanted to say in less words. Kudos for that.

I firmly stand by my own moral code and being a balanced 8w7 makes me always want to protect the underdog. I dislike injustice and will do anything to eradicate it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
How did you end its life?:eek:

I'm a very moral person, but I think it has to do with the way I was raised (my dad being INTJ though) I'm probably also very idealistic.
I would have ended the puppy's life too, more on that after you reply to my first question though!

I would probably be the whistle blower if I find that someone has been diverting funds from a company I'm working in; I would be the first one to call injustice and do something about it (even if my superiors try to stop me from doing so); and if I were a politician, I would need a lot of body guards because I would probably be the victim of numerous assassination attempts.

That's how moral I am. It is tied to principles and values right?

I would be really angry at the other people for not listening to me and not putting the food on a plastic bag, but I would be even more angry (specially if the wounds were serious) at myself for not having it my way. (Although, I have to say, if it were a real life experience, the food would have been served on my hands if I didn't have it my way, a.k.a. plastic bag)
I had diazepam with me (I'm a med student and part time nurse so I always have stuff like that with me) so I put him to sleep first and then broke its neck in one swift move. By my moral code it was the best thing to do because it had literally zero chances of survival and would have ended its life in agonizing pain.
 

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You expressed exactly what I wanted to say in less words. Kudos for that.

I firmly stand by my own moral code and being a balanced 8w7 makes me always want to protect the underdog. I dislike injustice and will do anything to eradicate it.
Amen.

I don't think you did anything wrong. I would have done the same. I tend to break down (or try) "ethical" decisions into a utility problem. Which is what it seems like you did in this case.


BTW,

... your acquaintance sounds like a prostitute.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You expressed exactly what I wanted to say in less words. Kudos for that.

I firmly stand by my own moral code and being a balanced 8w7 makes me always want to protect the underdog. I dislike injustice and will do anything to eradicate it.
Amen.

I don't think you did anything wrong. I would have done the same. I tend to break down (or try) "ethical" decisions into a utility problem. Which is what it seems like you did in this case.


BTW,

... your acquaintance sounds like a prostitute.
I suppose she does. Well, if her happiness relies on money than whatever floats her boat. I don't judge. But money is paper. It comes and it goes. Money will buy you a nice hospital bed but won't hold your hand and never leave you no matter what. But a woman with psychopatic tendencies will remain a woman with psychopatic tendencies.

However, the wisest decision would be to not rely your happiness on anything but yourself - your very existence is the only thing that you know for sure (and even this can be debated).
 

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I had diazepam with me (I'm a med student and part time nurse so I always have stuff like that with me) so I put him to sleep first and then broke its neck in one swift move. By my moral code it was the best thing to do because it had literally zero chances of survival and would have ended its life in agonizing pain.
Well... I wouldn't have had that on me and wouldn't know how to do it even if I had diazepam on me.
I wouldn't trust myself to do it and unless the people I was with knew exactly what they were doing, I wouldn't trust them either.
I would just nurse the dog until it dies or give it the diazepam and watch over it until it dies.
I would feel so helpless though...
 

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I don't know if it is possible to rely only on yourself for happiness.

For example, an important pillar (and probably the most solitary) that makes me who I am is a desire to continuously learn and improve. But for the most part, this cannot be done purely internally. For me, I need some sort of external stimuli which I can then internalize and tear apart. But there is a limit to how many ways I can slice the same information. When I hit that limit, I need more data/external stimuli/inputs/ whatever you want to call it.


** edited a typo
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Well... I wouldn't have had that on me and wouldn't know how to do it even if I had diazepam on me.
I wouldn't trust myself to do it and unless the people I was with knew exactly what they were doing, I wouldn't trust them either.
I would just nurse the dog until it dies or give it the diazepam and watch over it until it dies.
I would feel so helpless though...
I like making decisions. And if anybody around me isn't certain I'll be the one to make the firm decision. So unless "God" showed up and told me "hey lady, don't mess with my creation, I'll take its life the way I want it to because I know better" then I would have first researched this "God"'s decisions and even then,if uncertain of his resume I would have done the same thing. I wouldn't have left the poor thing suffer. It didn't make me feel comfortable but it was (at least in my opinion) the best I could have done at the moment.

I could have ended its suffering with diazepam alone (it would have been put in a coma and die because of respiratory muscle atrophy) but it would have taken more time and I didn't have enough in the first place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I don't know if it is possible to rely only on yourself for happiness.

For example, an important pillar (and probably the most solitary) that makes me who I am is a desire to continuously learn and improve. But for the most part, this cannot be done externally. For me, I need some sort of external stimuli which I can then internalize and tear apart. But there is a limit to how many ways I can slice the same information. When I hit that limit, I need more data/external stimuli/inputs/ whatever you want to call it.
Being an INTP knowledge (at least in the stereotypical way) would be your happiness. Which I understand perfectly. What I meant was that in order to never suffer happiness should not depend on anything that can be taken away from you - love ones,money,a shiny car etc Even knowledge ( memory loss and it's all gone ). Just you - your sole existence - your breath,your staying on your legs,you being alive - should be enough to make you happy - this is the only thing that can't be taken away from you until you die. But that would be a perfect-case scenario. Unless you're Ghandi or something it won't happen.
 

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@L'Enfant Terrible Speaking of morality, I live by and stand firm to my principles (for example, never betraying a friend; never manipulate people; never cheat and so on).

Same here, people generally thinks I'm cruel/bad. Perhaps they just mean firm/rigid, whatever.
That's funny because actually some guys betray on friends but they are often perceived as "good". That makes me sick. So much weakness.

I remember an episode, where I found myself alone with my friend's ex-girlfriend. Some days before he told me they were next to a break up.
She walked towards me, slowly; I recognized her look - it's the kind of look a girl thows at you when she is meaning "I want you".
She lifted my T-shirt and posed her hands on my chest.
I admit I was fascinated... she was so gorgeous and we had locked eye contact.

But I didn't hesitate. I took her hands away and said "No".

I have never regretted that decision.
 
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@L'Enfant Terrible Speaking of morality, I live by and stand firm to my principles (for example, never betraying a friend; never manipulate people; never cheat and so on).

Same here, people generally thinks I'm cruel/bad. Perhaps they just mean firm/rigid, whatever.
That's funny because actually some guys betray on friends but they are often perceived as "good". That makes me sick. So much weakness.

I remember an episode, where I found myself alone with my friend's ex-girlfriend. Some days before he told me they were next to a break up.
She walked towards me, slowly; I recognized her look - it's the kind of look a girl thows at you when she is meaning "I want you".
She lifted my T-shirt and posed her hands on my chest.
I admit I was fascinated... she was so gorgeous and we had locked eye contact.

But I didn't hesitate. I took her hands away and said "No".

I have never regretted that decision.
Bros never come first. For me at least. A displeased girl in my opinion deserves what she wants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
@L'Enfant Terrible Speaking of morality, I live by and stand firm to my principles (for example, never betraying a friend; never manipulate people; never cheat and so on).

Same here, people generally thinks I'm cruel/bad. Perhaps they just mean firm/rigid, whatever.
That's funny because actually some guys betray on friends but they are often perceived as "good". That makes me sick. So much weakness.

I remember an episode, where I found myself alone with my friend's ex-girlfriend. Some days before he told me they were next to a break up.
She walked towards me, slowly; I recognized her look - it's the kind of look a girl thows at you when she is meaning "I want you".
She lifted my T-shirt and posed her hands on my chest.
I admit I was fascinated... she was so gorgeous and we had locked eye contact.

But I didn't hesitate. I took her hands away and said "No".

I have never regretted that decision.
I thought I was the only one who is generally perceived as cruel/bad but I actually notice how many other people who are much worse than me are perceived as good. I think this is because people just don't seem to make an effort to analyze people and situations, most of them rely on superficial data alone. They do not see beyond words or intentions. ENTJs are notorious for their straightforawrd,honest,"unpolished" way of talking. Most other types (except a few) are very different - they think that because you talk like this you want to hurt or disrespect them. But the more I care and love somebody the tougher I am. Therefore the worse I appear. If I don't care about someone I'm perfectly polite.

You made the right choice there. After the break up you could bang her all you want.
 
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