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I havent seen a thread for this, although maybe I have overlooked it. I was just at the INTP forum, and in their thread on religion, it seems that most are atheist or agnostic. So I wanted to ask the ENTJ's. What are your views on God. I know culture and upbringing have a lot to do with this, but personality probably does too.
 

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god is as real as santa claus, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, the flying spaghetti monster, Zeus, Odin and Tiamat.
 

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Agnostic/ pantheist. I believe there's something there, I just don't think it really knows what it's doing.

As far as organized religions go, I'm veering to Catholicism. It doesn't really make much difference, though.
 

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N/A

Religion is a pretty nice layer of social standards, but I definitely don't believe in its accuracy. Most definitely not a bearded male as a God, heaven is place, and all the people retain their physical shape and hang out for eternity.

Maybe some sort of river/stream of energy I can believe, but I think mankind has always overestimated our worth. Only a man would come up with something as human-centric as religion.
 

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Officially I'm an atheist, and have been so since 1995, though my outlook is slowly drifting back toward theism/Christianity.

The reason is clear. I'm having trouble avoiding the conclusion that atheism of the naturalist/materialist variety requires us to crucify our own intellect, as if we're puppets of external forces. If 'I think, therefore naturalism is false' is a valid argument, then I'm hitting for the wrong team.

This excludes ancient, classical varieties of atheism, such as hedonism or stoicism, that don't make strong ontological commitments. However, the best of these views, like the every else wonderful and noble about antiquity, has already been assimilated by religious institutions.
 

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Agnostic/ pantheist. I believe there's something there, I just don't think it really knows what it's doing.

+1

I am heavily leaning toward atheist views based on rationality. However, if life it finite, it becomes completely irrelevant in the long-run and nothing accomplished here has any meaning whatsoever. Some say the atheist is left with few options: suicide, or living a meaningless life. But that is not to say the atheist should never try to accomplish anything; if life is finite, then we only have one chance to enjoy it. Every second is an opportunity and any opportunity lost is lost forever. In a way, the atheistic life is the more meaningful life, but it still leaves the gap between finite and infinite.

For me, Tolstoy kind of summed it up: In order for one to lead a meaningful life, one must have an "irrational knowledge" of the afterlife. the basic idea was that faith is irrational, but without it, life is meaningless. It is how we connect the finite with the infinite.

How this works in my head: Faith and religion make no logical sense whatsoever, but I hope that I am wrong somehow and death is not annihilation. Also, if death is annihilation, human extinction is inevitable and eventually everything accomplished by the human race will be forgotten...that would suck...
 

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To die is as pointless to live, essentially.
I'm not ENTJ so I'm not answering, but JHBowden had the most interesting thoughts.
 

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NTs who are religious fanatics are on my hit list because they are people abusers. Please don't be one so I don't have to meet up with you one day.

As for religion, I believe it's a personal thing and I trust ENTJs (or other NTs) not to believe through a institution but through their own individual hearts, otherwise, I'd hope to meet up with you someday.

Here's a scenario, a possible NT (especially ENTP, lol) institution leader making SJs do things for their own individual benefit. Do you like that?
 

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The golden ratio is very interesting along with Pi; from what I understand every universal constant is an irrational number...hmmmm
 

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thank u st0831 i feel the same as u do religion should be up to yourselve to decide what you believe. i for one think that religion is only an excuss that those in power or thoses that want change use as a reason to go to war.
now i am not an anit-war man. But for once i would like the officales to say hey we are really going to war for reasons X, Y, and Z. Without religion they would have to either tell us the true reasons or find a new excuss none nearly as good as religion.
i think that reigous practices like meditating are ok.i just have a problem with the whole omg there is a super being that will punsh us forever if we dont be good. i feel that people should be good because they want to be and not because they are scared into being good.
 

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Yeah organized religion does fall into that ethical problem of coercion. We can all agree that coercion is unethical and we can also agree that religion must be ethical.

If boss says perform sexual favor or get fired = coercion = unethical

If boss says perform sexual favor get promotion = coercive persuasion = unethical

If God says "do what I say is good" and go to heaven, or don't and go to hell = coercion = unethical

Besides, what good is doing something "good" or not doing something "bad" if you don't believe in it? Wouldn't an omniscient God see through that? Shouldn't a person also commit "good" acts out of their own desire, just as they choose to have faith? Also, if God is omnipotent, then everything that exists is a direct result of his will both good and bad and everything that happens is pre-determined at which point the human race has no free will. Seems like existence as we know it is a bit of a layover on the way to heaven for organized religion.

For me, most of the contradictions are related to the religious views on sexuality, power, and money. I still can not make any conclusions about the existence of a higher power, but organized religion is not convincing.
 

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NTs who are religious fanatics are on my hit list because they are people abusers. Please don't be one so I don't have to meet up with you one day.

As for religion, I believe it's a personal thing and I trust ENTJs (or other NTs) not to believe through a institution but through their own individual hearts, otherwise, I'd hope to meet up with you someday.

Here's a scenario, a possible NT (especially ENTP, lol) institution leader making SJs do things for their own individual benefit. Do you like that?
Thus, the heart constructs facts of emotion and the bearer of the heart must protect these facts of emotion.
Interesting.
 

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I am non-religious and I don't consider myself an atheist because it would just make me another type of "theist." I intend to find the answers on my own and accept the truth in my own terms. I think religion has it's good side and bad side like every coin and balancing yin with yang. It's good side trying to preach a guideline that people should live by and it's bad side of child molestation, coercion, contradictions, brain washing, and separation/division of people in general. But as with everything that is good there is always something bad that comes along with it kind of like being an ENTJ or any other psychological types.

But with everything I come in contact with I approach it with curiosity and inquisitiveness by exploring and challenging the beliefs brought forth to me to find the truth for myself. Why do I do this? Because I cannot just believe it because another ENTJ told me "Just do it and believe me because I said so." It's just not a good enough reason and answer.

Science cannot explain everything and neither can religion. Why are we here? What is the purpose of our existence? Just think of it right now, how are you even conscious and have a mind of your own inside a physical form you can control? Isn't it odd? Does it not boggle your mind? When I first thought up of this in my sophomore year of high school it blew my *bleeping* mind away. Ever since then I have been awaken and was never the same person ever again. Perhaps there is an answer to these questions, perhaps there is not. Perhaps we may never know. But I can only hope to keep believing that I will in time find the answer to these and many more questions before I pass on and accept it in my heart; or keep wondering and dreaming about the answers even after I have passed on. A man can keep dreaming, but will all the answers come to him in time? No one knows, at least not yet.

I rather keep dreaming and hope the answer will come to me than to accept one that I cannot believe in.
 

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I am non-religious and I don't consider myself an atheist because it would just make me another type of "theist." I intend to find the answers on my own and accept the truth in my own terms. I think religion has it's good side and bad side like every coin and balancing yin with yang. It's good side trying to preach a guideline that people should live by and it's bad side of child molestation, coercion, contradictions, brain washing, and separation/division of people in general. But as with everything that is good there is always something bad that comes along with it kind of like being an ENTJ or any other psychological types.

But with everything I come in contact with I approach it with curiosity and inquisitiveness by exploring and challenging the beliefs brought forth to me to find the truth for myself. Why do I do this? Because I cannot just believe it because another ENTJ told me "Just do it and believe me because I said so." It's just not a good enough reason and answer.

Science cannot explain everything and neither can religion. Why are we here? What is the purpose of our existence? Just think of it right now, how are you even conscious and have a mind of your own inside a physical form you can control? Isn't it odd? Does it not boggle your mind? When I first thought up of this in my sophomore year of high school it blew my *bleeping* mind away. Ever since then I have been awaken and was never the same person ever again. Perhaps there is an answer to these questions, perhaps there is not. Perhaps we may never know. But I can only hope to keep believing that I will in time find the answer to these and many more questions before I pass on and accept it in my heart; or keep wondering and dreaming about the answers even after I have passed on. A man can keep dreaming, but will all the answers come to him in time? No one knows, at least not yet.

I rather keep dreaming and hope the answer will come to me than to accept one that I cannot believe in.
Ya but see here if you confront a scientist with an expearment that disproves a set scintific theory and you can repeat this expearment then you can change the world of sciences. were as with religion the prist, monk,religous leader will just blow you off trun to his followers and openly dam you to hell for your blastime. so in other words i piss off some religous leader every other week or so. I find this very funny to watch.

as for the pros vs cons in religion to me they are very one sided towards the cons. as for the pros of religion any one can follow them without having to belive in an opnimeatnt beiing.

Now here is a question. most religions nowadays are like chatlolic beleafes. there is only 1 god. so my fellow ENTJs what do you think of religions more like those of Ancaint Greek or Rome were they had many gods that only controld a bit of the world? Sounds more reasonable to me more like a business. and it would explain all the BS on this planet.

STill dont beleave in God/gods just wanted to get your feedback.
 

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I am a proud ENTJ, but I am extremly religious. I was raised in the same church since I was 6 years old. I was actually a Sunday school teacher for the 3rd-6th graders. Now I am more involved with the older youth group and working with missions. I love my church family, I love my minister, my friends, everything about my church. Although there are of course things i would change because a few procedures seem illogical *twitch, twitch,* I love it anyway :)
 

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I am a proud ENTJ, but I am extremly religious. I was raised in the same church since I was 6 years old. I was actually a Sunday school teacher for the 3rd-6th graders. Now I am more involved with the older youth group and working with missions. I love my church family, I love my minister, my friends, everything about my church. Although there are of course things i would change because a few procedures seem illogical *twitch, twitch,* I love it anyway :)
So do you think our leaders should consider religion when they are making world choices?
 
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