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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys! I'm an ENTP and I'm generally social and outgoing with everyone. However there are times where I have my shy moments and it's frustrating me to death. I'm almost certain that my shy/quiet moments stems from my overabundance of anxiety. A lot of times I like to plan out what to say and how to act in ideal social situations. Like I literally imagine myself in my head what lines to say and what replies to expect and how to reply to those replies.

However when the time comes - if I'm too nervous to talk to a person I'll end up not even talking to them at all. Or other times my anxiety causes me to blank out and I forget everything I want to say to the other person and end up saying very little or nothing at all. Usually this is because I'm scared of a possible rejection outcome where I'm not wanted - so I avoid it all at together. I also found that I'm usually confident with 1 on 1 situations but group situations are too chaotic for me to collect my thoughts. I know that healthy ENTPs don't give a damn and won't filter what they have to say - they say what's on their mind and they don't care about other's approvals. However, I usually only unfilter myself when I'm around people that I already won the approval of such as really close friends or relatives.

Maybe this is also due to my 3w2 Enneagram?

My 3w2 profile states:
"Average 3/2 is the prototypical sales personality. The threeish desire to be admired is stronger than the twoish desire to please others, so it is more important to them that they look good than that they make others feel good, although they will do both if they can. Unbalanced 3/2s become trapped by the vain desire to be admired and attractive. They begin to hide more and more behind their false emotional facade. Trying ever harder to show the emotional states they think others think they should show, they get further out of touch with whatever real emotions are being ignored."

This is so true because I want to please everyone I know and so I filter myself. But as an ENTP I really really really don't like to filter myself - I like being open and saying what's on my mind because I honestly do have a lot to say and offer. Plus I love arguing with people, and I often find myself nodding in agreement to statements I strongly disagree with just to please the other person.

What part of me is underdeveloped then? Is it my Fe? How can I improve myself so that I can say what's on my mind without having to filter most of my thoughts. Does any other ENTP struggle with this issue? Any help would be much appreciated!
 

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@xdae

I think you are right, three would make you eager to fit in with what would be successful.

If you have experience of making some kind of comment which prevented others from seeing your real talents, yes why would you pursue what feels to be the same course again?

I find something similar in conversations. It is easier when I wait for a genuine pause in the conversation, then make a comment shortly and then people do understand me because it is easier for them to hear what I am saying when there is a genuine pause in the conversation.

Have you heard of Tritype? Maybe there could be more of an answer in that. Having two more numbers to flesh out some of what is going on for you underneath. For example, if you have six in your Tritype this would also make you eager to comply with others' expectations or needs in the conversation. You may then avoid situations where others may feel seemingly uncomfortable with you, you would rather not interrupt the flow of their thinking and feeling, because you are implicitly concerned with their wellbeing in the process of their interactions with you.

Also there is the idea of subtypes - SP, SO, SX. Maybe you could be subtype SO? This would also make you concerned with the fabric of situations, and holding the social fabric together, sometimes by avoiding engaging altogether, if you think this would result in a rupture of the fabric in the situation...

I am just talking of possibilities. Please do not let what I am saying loom too large in your mind. In the end, I believe, the most important thing is for you to self-identify, if that is what you want. It doesn't really matter what I think you "are". It would not even matter if you could not care less about the Tritypes thing! Or already know about, independently of me. Haha.

My Tritype is 146, subtype SX-SO (or that is what I feel to be the case at the moment, I should be open to that changing, I think, with new information on me from myself and others).
@Quang is really informed on Enneagram and may be able to help you nut out your Tritype, if that is what you would want. :)

He may also correct some of what I've been saying above!
 

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I used to be exactly the same even a couple of years ago, was completely myself if I knew the people approved of me but in groups if there was anyone I was unsure of I was too anxious to speak much. Before that I had been so shy that it was nearly impossible to get a word out of me if I didn't know the person.

I'd say it's very normal for some people in their youth and that it usually passes at some point - many people are shy as children but I'm not sure if I've ever met an actually visibly shy adult. Anyway, I got past the first, most difficult phase of my shyness by growing out of it but after reaching the second one it required a lot of work for me to rid myself of the social anxiety. At first I was just generally nice to people which made them nice to me and then it was easier to talk to them when I thought they approved of me. If there was someone I knew disliked me for no reason I still tried to talk and be like I'd be with anyone else. Formerly I would also only speak one on one to those I knew well enough but then I decided to talk to most classmates if two of us were for example too early to school. Then I gradually became more and more myself, both appearance-wise and in social situations and noticed that people like me way better that way than when I tried to conform so I gave that up and became much more unfiltered.

Actually, I don't have much of an idea of how I succeeded because it's weird to think that would be all. But I recommend working on it instead of accepting it, it can definitely be improved and at least I feel much more free this way, there's not much limiting my interaction with people.
 

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@xdae
Quick question:
How old are you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@xdae

I think you are right, three would make you eager to fit in with what would be successful.

If you have experience of making some kind of comment which prevented others from seeing your real talents, yes why would you pursue what feels to be the same course again?

I find something similar in conversations. It is easier when I wait for a genuine pause in the conversation, then make a comment shortly and then people do understand me because it is easier for them to hear what I am saying when there is a genuine pause in the conversation.

Have you heard of Tritype? Maybe there could be more of an answer in that. Having two more numbers to flesh out some of what is going on for you underneath. For example, if you have six in your Tritype this would also make you eager to comply with others' expectations or needs in the conversation. You may then avoid situations where others may feel seemingly uncomfortable with you, you would rather not interrupt the flow of their thinking and feeling, because you are implicitly concerned with their wellbeing in the process of their interactions with you.

Also there is the idea of subtypes - SP, SO, SX. Maybe you could be subtype SO? This would also make you concerned with the fabric of situations, and holding the social fabric together, sometimes by avoiding engaging altogether, if you think this would result in a rupture of the fabric in the situation...

I am just talking of possibilities. Please do not let what I am saying loom too large in your mind. In the end, I believe, the most important thing is for you to self-identify, if that is what you want. It doesn't really matter what I think you "are". It would not even matter if you could not care less about the Tritypes thing! Or already know about, independently of me. Haha.

My Tritype is 146, subtype SX-SO (or that is what I feel to be the case at the moment, I should be open to that changing, I think, with new information on me from myself and others).

@Quang is really informed on Enneagram and may be able to help you nut out your Tritype, if that is what you would want. :)

He may also correct some of what I've been saying above!
Yeah, I'm still new to all this and I'm pretty sure I'm SO. I don't think my variant is to blame because I enjoy pleasing people - I just don't enjoy it to the point where I'm a push over. I also think that you're right about how it's more of what you want rather than what you are. Right now I would like to have more of an internal Enneagram rather than both external/internal so I can be more outspoken and confident in myself. So I'll definitely try working on moving towards my 4 wing. I'll also take a look at my tritype too to see if that can help me figure out myself better. Thanks!
 

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Yeah, I'm still new to all this and I'm pretty sure I'm SO. I don't think my variant is to blame because I enjoy pleasing people - I just don't enjoy it to the point where I'm a push over. I also think that you're right about how it's more of what you want rather than what you are. Right now I would like to have more of an internal Enneagram rather than both external/internal so I can be more outspoken and confident in myself. So I'll definitely try working on moving towards my 4 wing. I'll also take a look at my tritype too to see if that can help me figure out myself better. Thanks!
I think that's indicative of you being a social first type.
Regarding your OP though, part of being a healthy ENTP (especially with well developed Fe) is knowing when it is a good idea to have somewhat of a filter when you speak. Moreso in finding a tactful way to speak your mind rather than clamming up and not saying anything at all though.
 

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@xdae

I think that is one thing an ENTP would definitely not enjoy feeling like they are becoming - a push over

So regardless of what anyone else thinks, I can see how many ENTPs would not enjoy feeling like they are accommodating to that extent
 

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I'm 19, why do you ask? Hey you're a 3w2 ENTP SO as well! Welcome to the struggle :)
Haha I'm way past the struggle :)

But I can tell you how my system works, because I've had a similar problem when I was.. lets say younger than you were.
I'm asking your age, because ENTPs tend to have introverted assimilation problems before Fe development which happens around 17.

Anyhow, lets break down your post :)
Hey guys! I'm an ENTP and I'm generally social and outgoing with everyone.
Hi! Welcome. Most 3w2 people are outgoing and social with people.

However there are times where I have my shy moments and it's frustrating me to death. I'm almost certain that my shy/quiet moments stems from my overabundance of anxiety. A lot of times I like to plan out what to say and how to act in ideal social situations. Like I literally imagine myself in my head what lines to say and what replies to expect and how to reply to those replies.
Its nice that you recognize that you have a problem. Now you dont really know the source of it (neither do we.) or a solution yet.

I have to say, I used to think of alternative scenarios for every single conversation. It was exhausting. then I tried being completely spontaneous, and failed miserably. But eventually what happens to ENTPs is that we gather all the experience from our past. Our brains automatically match them to conversation patterns. And like it or not, you eventually automate the "dull" conversations, and your brain automatically generates a million things to say in most occasions. I can even say that it makes you search for more "interesting" people. Whom you havent talked to, and therefore dont exactly know what to say, but I'm jumping into your future problems. Lets solve these first :proud:.
Overall, ENTPs have pattern based minds and the more you live, the more relations you keep in your brain for referencing which eventually build up better conversations for you.

However when the time comes - if I'm too nervous to talk to a person I'll end up not even talking to them at all. Or other times my anxiety causes me to blank out and I forget everything I want to say to the other person and end up saying very little or nothing at all.
Usually, this is the part where I would ask.. BUT WHYYY??
What happens when you actually talk in a situation like this?
anyway, you answered half of that;
Usually this is because I'm scared of a possible rejection outcome where I'm not wanted - so I avoid it all at together.
Yep. Thanks for that. Thats a common 3w2 thing. I have it too. You never really lose the fear of possible rejection.
But you eventually learn one very important thing. It doesnt matter what you say to anyone at all. With the right tone, with the right follow up, with the right words, you can get away with saying ABSOLUTELY anything. This applies to your conversations with most people.
I also found that I'm usually confident with 1 on 1 situations but group situations are too chaotic for me to collect my thoughts.
This is because you feel like you can appeal to one person, but in a group its much harder to satisfy, or appeal to everyone. Making it strictly harder to find the ideal thing to say.
I know that healthy ENTPs don't give a damn and won't filter what they have to say - they say what's on their mind and they don't care about other's approvals.
I'd disagree. I do care. Most ENTP 3's would care actually. You are talking about the stereotypical 7's. But then again, we give the same impression too because we eventually learn that we can say absolutely anything.
Average 3/2 is the prototypical sales personality.
haha thats an awesome definition
This is so true because I want to please everyone I know and so I filter myself. But as an ENTP I really really really don't like to filter myself - I like being open and saying what's on my mind because I honestly do have a lot to say and offer.
Those two dont exactly contradict.
See if you have something worth saying and a lot to offer. (and we usually do)
Why would saying it make anyone displeased?
(Well I could think of a few reasons tbh) but!
You can always sugar coat your ideas with proper wording and get your ideas across.
All you need is some practice with people you havent met yet. I'll get back to this.
Plus I love arguing with people, and I often find myself nodding in agreement to statements I strongly disagree with just to please the other person.
Thats really good for you, but there are people you want to argue with, and then there are people you dont really want to argue with. Because not every arguments is as brilliant as the ones you like to have.
And for some people arguing and being pleased contradict. Its entirely up to you, scale what you really desire. Do you want to argue with everyone? Or do you want to please everyone? Or do you want to argue with those who actually do wish to argue, those who wont be displeased?
On an entirely different subject, this is what I mostly use MBTI for. It helps you know if people will inherently love arguing after you assess someone's type. Anyway, back on topic.
What part of me is underdeveloped then? Is it my Fe?
No. To be honest I like this thread. Its refreshing. Most people who post a "I cant do X" thread are 17 year olds with Fe problems. Not you.
Lets get to this though:
How can I improve myself so that I can say what's on my mind without having to filter most of my thoughts.
Take up a new hobby, you dont need to like it. Something your friends(or circle of friends) dont do. Meet a group of people who wont meet your current friends for a long while. Assume a new persona and test test test. Make them your test subjects. Test how they react to whichever subject you speak on, test how harsh you can be, or how soothing you can be.
Does any other ENTP struggle with this issue? Any help would be much appreciated!
Hope that helps :) anything else?
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Wow, thanks. This is actually very enlightening.

I'm asking your age, because ENTPs tend to have introverted assimilation problems before Fe development which happens around 17.
So true, I didn’t have my first relationship until I turned 17. And prior to that relationship I was extremely introverted even though I had an inner desire to be sociable. Now that I think of it, I actually had a huge crush on an extremely introverted/reserved girl whom I now realize is an INFJ. I could talk to her about literally everything over text/calls but when time came to talk to her in person or in a group I would just freeze up. I’m almost certain it’s because I’ve lacked experience of previous social patterns and had no idea how to handle social situations. Hence:

Overall, ENTPs have pattern based minds and the more you live, the more relations you keep in your brain for referencing which eventually build up better conversations for you.
I so understand now. I’ve realized that I pick up numerous social fillers from everyone I meet. Maybe I enjoy a friend’s way of laughing and I begin to laugh like them. Or I remember how a classmate kept saying “awesome” to lighten the atmosphere. I thought it was awesome how he said “awesome” so much and so I started to say awesome a lot too lol. There’s been so many more cases of me adopting other people’s way of socializing and I never really gave it much thought until now. Gee thanks.

This is because you feel like you can appeal to one person, but in a group its much harder to satisfy, or appeal to everyone. Making it strictly harder to find the ideal thing to say.
Holy fuck- so this is why I’m much more reserved in groups. :O

we eventually learn that we can say absolutely anything.
This is what I’ve been trying to achieve since I was 17. My girlfriend made me realize that I was actually a really shitty conversationalist and she would always complain at my elementary conversation skills. Hence the beginning of the development to master my Fe. Man, I can't wait to finally master my patterns to say absolutely anything... lol that'd be awesome.

Its entirely up to you, scale what you really desire. Do you want to argue with everyone? Or do you want to please everyone?
Yes. Yes. Yes. I found out that my earlier teen years, I could only argue with those I didn’t want to please –people like random strangers I met online or really really close friends. But of late I’ve started to argue more and more. For example, my dad and sister are both INTJ’s. I grew up just saying “yes” to everything they said even though I thought differently – I was too afraid to voice my own thoughts. I think them being INTJs also contributed to my fear of arguing because INTJs are by nature really self-confident and too stubborn to admit fault. Every time I tried to argue my side of things, my dad would not bend at all and stay adamant until physically proven wrong. So I quickly learned to not even bother to voice my opinions. Recently however I’ve began to share my own beliefs more (along with more sugarcoating) and we've started to bond more. Besides, ENTPs and INTJs are supposed to be really good matches so I hope that maybe in the near future I can finally become friends with my previously estranged dad/sister.

Take up a new hobby, you dont need to like it. Something your friends(or circle of friends) dont do. Meet a group of people who wont meet your current friends for a long while. Assume a new persona and test test test. Make them your test subjects. Test how they react to whichever subject you speak on, test how harsh you can be, or how soothing you can be.
Now that I think of it, I actually do all of the above naturally. I’m naturally seeking new experiences so I can develop myself more. I’ve obtained like 20 different friend groups in the past year, but I usually only act slightly different to adjust to the slightly different desirable image of the group. I should definitely try to adopt an extremely different persona and test new group's reactions so I can reevaluate my idea of a good image. Thanks for all the advice!
 

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Thanks for all the advice!
You are very welcome :proud: If you have any other concerns, feel free to ask any time :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Refer to the test in my signature v
I got 5w4 with 935 sx/so on your test.

But I'm usually 3w2 with 395 so/sx.

What does this mean? Why are the numbers switching up? What's the difference in order?? What do the 3 numbers even mean when grouped together? And which one is right? I took the other test at http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php

Btw, nice usage of league champions :D
 

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What does this mean? Why are the numbers switching up? What's the difference in order?? What do the 3 numbers even mean when grouped together? And which one is right?
Dont do tests to assess yourself. They suck

There is an enneagram part of the forum for assessment, just fill/post the questionnaire over there. Someone will help you out.
 

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I got 5w4 with 935 sx/so on your test.

But I'm usually 3w2 with 395 so/sx.

What does this mean? Why are the numbers switching up? What's the difference in order?? What do the 3 numbers even mean when grouped together? And which one is right? I took the other test at Eclectic Energies Enneagram Tests (free)

Btw, nice usage of league champions :D
The 3 numbers represent your 'tritype'. The tritype is a more advanced form of the enneagram which offers a more elaborate explanation of your enneagram type if you are unsatisfied with just knowing your enneagram type, because there are a dozen variations of 3s, 5s, 9s etc. When people are new to the enneagram they can identify with 2-3 different types, and this is usually a result of having 2 or 3 types in your tritype. To summarize:

3: You self-identify with your successes, achievements, performance
5: You solve problems in a way that more logical, objective, compartmentalizing, observatory, detached
9: You experience and express anger more slowly. Anger expresses itself in a passive-aggressive way.

Regardless whether its 395 or 935, the most important thing is that you identify the first number correctly because it represents your main enneagram type, which in this case should be 3 or 5. You can proceed by investigating type 3 and 5. The 359 combination brings along a triple detachment, cool-headed, and ninja-like trait.
 
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