ENTP and enneagram sexual first - mismatch?

2280 Views 14 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Algirdas, Nov 29, 2010

Algirdas

Discussion Starter · Oct 4, 2010

Hey, I'm a 7w8 sx/sp on enneagram, but not sure about mbti type. It's like I would be totally ENTP in my turn-off modes, can talk about whatever intelectual subjects (i get bored quickly of them, though. they usually get into something which leads nowhere, and this annoys me. I could keep discussing it, but it's just sooo not worth it. Or hence the turn off mode?), well i don't know, explain complex things and so on. But when it comes to my action mode - here i am, highly involved, driven, totally physical which is weird with ENTP. Anyone who'd try talking to me about something at those moments, something more complex than what i need or want, will be told to shut up cause there are exciting things going on, and they're real. From what I've read, ENTPs usually get excited about some sort of idea, and when I get excited, it's always about some kind of action. Also, I'm not superficial and flighty about values as are ENTPs - I may not care for lots of things, but there are some I deeply respect, which involves strenght, an ability to sense justice/injustice, also some kind of striving for freedom in what you do - not because you're competent, but because it makes you feel free on a higher level. I'm quite artsy as well, which i've read is more of an ESTP thing. I might be directly bold not because i feel competence to be but because i just CAN (this actually happens when you piss me off). I'm also playful, not in a smartass way - I have a friend who's ENTP (so/sx, though), i can compare. This is an ESTP thing, too. But all of this happens when I'm in a "turned-on" mode. Is it simply sexual first playing out or am I really an ESTP? Any other sexual ENTPs' expieriences?

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Monte

· #2 · Oct 4, 2010

... I lost the point of this thread three times while reading.

This doesn't happen to me and I don't really know too many other ENTPs, or NTs for that matter that do this. If anything, speaking intellectually to me would turn me on even more.

yesiknowbut

· #3 · Oct 4, 2010

You sound ESTP.

Enneagram is bollocks as far as I am concerned, and even if it wasn't and you believed in it, there is supposedly no direct correlation between M-B type and Enneagram type. They are categorising different things.

Algirdas

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 4, 2010

Monte - sorry, didn't intend to confuse you. Somehow when I know what I'm talking about this seemed pretty clear to me, but maybe it wasn't. alfreda - but there are some things i very strongly relate to about ENTPs. I've read in one forum that "you know you're ENTP when people can't win an argument against you not because you're smarter than them, but because there is some way to always support whatever idea that you learned as a phylosophical truth" or something like that, and I totally relate to this. It's just that sometimes I don't see a point in arguing further and I'll just say "alright whatever", but i used to when i was younger. About the enneagram, with types it's sometimes weird for me, but stackings seem to fit greatly. For me at least. Anyway guys, it's not that much that i ask you to clarify this, just was interested if someone had similar expieriences. Both ENTPs and ESTPs are two coolest types anyways

:crazy:

vel

· #5 · Oct 4, 2010

Algirdas said:
...I've read in one forum that "you know you're ENTP when people can't win an argument against you not because you're smarter than them, but because there is some way to always support whatever idea that you learned as a phylosophical truth" or something like that, and I totally relate to this...

This is consequence of Ti, introverted subjective logic, makes one into independent thinker but also less likely to follow rules or what others deem to be logical course of action. Both ENTPs and ESTPs have Ti.
ENTP functional order: Ne-Ti-Fe-Si
ESTP functional order: Se-Ti-Fe-Ni
So as you can see both of them use introverted logic to make logical calls and extraverted feeling to relate to ethics. They will judge themselves critically on competitive scale - and judge other people on moral/ethics scale. Thus in some ways they act very similarly. The difference is in having Ne dominant and Si inferior, or Se dominant and Ni inferior. If you can figure out which 'set' of perceiving functions you rely on when thinking then you can determine whether you are ESTP or ENTP.

Can read more about Ne/Si and Se/Ni here:
ENFP Wiki
MBTI characteristics & 16 Personality Types
Function Attitude

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Algirdas

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 5, 2010

Wow vel, this is great. From what i've read i really seem to be more Se than Ne, though that's pretty weird. I mean, previously in life I used to be sure I'm ENTP (was kind of a model student, thought everyone else is just so superficial, that i and only i know the right way of doing things), but as i discovered now i've always been in a "turned-off" mode back then. This is why I defend enneagram, in sx/sp description it's called "blockage of the sexual instinct", which, when it emerged, displays a clear prefferance for Se. Now I can tell the difference between turn-off and turn-on modes, back then i didin't even know it really exists. It was just a sense of some hidden strenght that i don't know how to access so i keep doing what i'm doing or something like that. i still didn't truly get how this happens, that "turn-on" mode, but as i have expierienced it several times it seems i'm a Se type. That's weird, fucking weird guys

thanks for your input though. How would mbti explain this anyway? Maybe I was an ESTP under stress?

YourMom

· #7 · Oct 5, 2010

Are you more descriptive or more analytical?
Do you go off on tangents when talking, or do you maintain on topic of the conversation?
Do you take risks to see what happens (kind of like an experiment), or do you take risks for the rush?

Most Ne-dominant types will tell you that they are analytical thinkers, go off on major tangents when in conversation, and take risks on an intellectual level to see what happens. Additionally we're mostly terrible at being descriptive and we are horrible at staying on topic of the conversation.

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RainbowFish

· #8 · Oct 5, 2010

Yeah, your writing style confuses me and I forget why I'm reading it. (Not meant in offense, just an observation of my own mental state).

And now I've forgotten what I had intended to write.

Algirdas said:
Also, I'm not superficial and flighty about values as are ENTPs - I may not care for lots of things, but there are some I deeply respect, which involves strenght, an ability to sense justice/injustice, also some kind of striving for freedom in what you do - not because you're competent, but because it makes you feel free on a higher level.

Speaking for myself, values and morals are pretty much a foundation for me. Applying terms such as "superficial" and "flighty" to such core parts of my being just does not sit well with me (I didn't take offense, just observing again).

Also "striving for freedom in what you do - not because you're competent, but because it makes you feel free on a higher level."

Don't understand this at all. Assuming that "not because you're competent" is implying that this is the reason an ENTP would seek freedom does not sit well with me either. I enjoy freedom because I believe it is something that should be a given, because I don't like to be controlled or at the will of others. Primarily, I enjoy freedom because it's ME making the decisions about MY life. Nothing at all to do with "competence." Well, there are a lot of ways you could stretch it to fit, but nothing direct.

I could actually pretty much sit an tear through your entire post (not maliciously, of course, but I could).

Verdict: You are ESTP.

Algirdas

Discussion Starter · #9 · Oct 5, 2010

That simply was what I've read about ENTPs, the competency thing. And the flightyness in values. I don't know if it's true, so no offence from my side either. YourMom, what i am sure about is the rush vs experiment thing. The answer is rush. Descriptive vs analytical - it depends. If I'm interested in the interlocutor understanding me - i can be highly descriptive. If I'm not - I can be analytical just for the sake of it, but i'm not driven to be. The same with going off on tangents. But when I really am analytical, or when I really do change the topic of the conversation - i don't have that much fun with it as my ENTP friend seems to have. It's just that i can do it because it's as good as anything else in a given situation. Sorry guys for my confusing writing style - I'm not a native speaker, so i understand this might happen. Thanks for all the responses :wink:

RainbowFish

· #10 · Oct 5, 2010

Hmm I think it really relies on what your natural instinct is. Sure things change due to the situation, but MBTI really tries to describe the personality patterns you fall into when left to your own devices. If you were to continue reading about different types beyond ENTP and ESTP I'm sure you'd find similarities in those too, as would I.

The main thing is, excluding outside influences, how would you handle/respond to "X"?

vel

· #11 · Oct 5, 2010

There are a few people on this forum whom I suspect are ESTPs, not that it matters much.

The main distinction between intuition and sensing is that sensing places value on objects in physical world while intuition places value on connections between these objects. As such ESTPs usually make impression of being well-grounded in physical world and the goals that they are aiming for are usually more tangible less abstract. ENTPs on the other hand may have their mind more in the "lala land" and be drawn to things that are somehow conceptually weird. Even though ENTP mind is drawn off to new unexplored places, in the sensory world they orient by their Si, introverted sensing, and so may object against new sensory experiences. Common example of this that I give is that when I got to a restaurant with people who have Si I noticed that they tend to order same dish again and can recall its name. Whereas I don't have a grain of Si in me, so I always get prompted to try something new and may struggle remembering what dishes worked for me in past. Touching, tasting, seeing, hearing something new seems exciting to me as per my Se.

Difference between sensors and intuitives in a simplified diagram:

Red circles represent things you can pick up with your senses - see/read, hear, taste, touch. The lines between them represent relationships between these things. Sensor mindset emphasizes the first, intuitive mindset emphasizes the later.

YourMom

· #12 · Oct 5, 2010

vel said:
There are a few people on this forum whom I suspect are ESTPs, not that it matters much.

That would make sense. I'm thinking the more irregular posters. Sensors tend to not stick around for a long time.

I've got a couple buddies in my engineering classes who are either ESTP or ENTP. Statistically speaking they are more likely to be S than N, but I'm not sure. I, by far, say way more (quantity and quality) ridiculous things than them. Another one of my friends says he is ENTJ, but I think he is ENTP. Me and him have unbelievable social chemistry. Actually on second thought he is definitely ENTJ. ENTJs tend to be more reactive where they base their actions (in social situations) on what happened before, and then observe around them to see what happened based on their actions, whereas ENTPs tend to act without thinking (still in social situations) and not be too bothered about how it affects their environment. For example, I make jokes all of the time, but I don't really focus on whether people laugh or not. Of course if they laugh loudly I notice, but otherwise I couldn't really tell you. He, on the other hand will tell a joke for the sole purpose of getting laughs.

Wait what was this thread about again? See, tangents, haha.

Algirdas

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 6, 2010

Well, with dishes i'm definately Se

Algirdas

Discussion Starter · #14 · Oct 6, 2010

And with responding to X, well i can take a situation i'm facing now. I go to a special, very strange school, it's meant for talented students but what results of it is a great bunch of boring people who spend their lives cramming. They're not even geeks, i mean - most are not passionate about what they're doing. I guess most are not passionate at all, well, SJ land. I feel a total outsider there, so what I do on my pissed off periods - simply ignore lessons and go home, or come late and intentionally don't apologise, to make teachers angry. This seems to me a SP under stress thing, though i couldn't tell what an ENTP would do. Be dropping witty, fun comments in every boring lesson? Well I've tried this, but when everyone just thinks that you suck because of it, because learning is so not-something-that-can-be-messed-with-or-laughed-about, it soon becomes no fun. It's not that I'm sharing my problems, it's just the best example i could come up with, the one in which i recall and can explain my motivations most percicely

Algirdas

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 29, 2010

OK, so i've just remembered that i had this thread

and the point of it actually was: doesn't Enneagram sexual first make someone APPEAR more Se, regardless of the mbti type? it wasn't that much of a typing request.

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