[elissabowden]

What's with the ENTPs need to play games? And why do you play them? And when do you decide to stop? Do you need a reaction from us to satisfy your need to win? And if we give you that, will you stop playing games and get on with it? Or you're just playing them because they can be played?

I'm currently in a game with another ENTP. At least...I think it's a game. I just want to know when it's going to end. And what I have to do to make him stop playing games and make him do something about it? Game playing is only fun for a little bit. Then it gets annoying and boring. It's like being stuck in a mud pit in Candyland. My ENTP likes to say absolutely nothing to me, then will wait for me to say something, then will flirt like crazy with me, then will stop. He used to walk me to my car, take me to lunch, and hang around me, but now there's some sudden distance (probably b/c of me and my inability to start conversation). We don't text, we hardly talk anymore, but there's this stink in the room and it's pretty obvious. I'm not sure if he's watching me, or if this is part of this stupid game.

Also, my best friend is also an INFP and in a game with my ENTPs best friend who is also an ENTP (weird...i know). What does it mean when he texts her things like "It's boring without you around" but then ignores her the next day? Her situation is opposite. He'll talk to her all the time, ask her to breakfast, get coffee with her, text her all the time, spent time making her birthday gift, and then opts out for the friend zone. WTF does this mean?!

And if an ENTP is looking for attention, should we give it to them? Or continue to play our version of the game "you're an asshole" and ignore them? What's going to make them go from "girl who i can play the game with" to "shit I've met my match, can't let that one go"?

I'd like some answers. You guys are confusing as fuck.:frustrating:

then again, i could get off my idealistic rocker and realize that it is just game playing. but i'd like to hear some ENTP oppinions first.

 

[yesiknowbut]

Can we set up a new forum for NF women who want to moan about their boyfriends? this is getting a little repetitive. Like, the third such post in the last 10 days. Always women posting about men.

Perhaps I would just like some hot INFJ bloke to wander in and ask for advice because he is being driven crazy by a wonderful ENTP chick, and that never seems to happen. :tongue:

 

[SlowPoke68]

It's not a deliberate game. We are fascinated with the big wonderful world. You are something in that world. Congratulations!

But we have other things to distract us, and usually it's not even another female. It might be a shiny hubcap or string theory or our plans to start a company selling hypnosis franchises.

If you are looking for a steady, ardent lover who makes you think you are the center of his world, look elsewhere. You are competing against a shiny hubcap. And at any given moment, the hubcap is probably going to win.

Also, if you can't start or sustain an interesting conversation, you're probably better off with someone else. Just speaking from experience. Hard, painful, expensive experience.

 

[WildWinds]

Have you ever actually ASKED him about this or TOLD him how you feel?

I mean, I realize that might be a bit out in left field for an NF to do....But ENTP's appreciate bluntness, especially when it comes to your feelings because thats something very few of us will probably ever understand. We can be considerate of your feelings....IF we know what they are.

Also, do remember that ENTP's aren't exactly relationship or people focused. We're focused on just about everything else. It doesn't mean that we can't stay committed or don't care deeply about our significant others, but you aren't always going to be the center of our attention.

 

[vel]

It is not just ENTPs but this sort of yo-yoing is a symptom of having intuition as one's dominant function. Intuition is like an infinite possibility drive. N-dominant types are most comfortable living in a cloud possibilities, outcomes, interpretations. This is a very open and ambiguous kind of environment that runs in contrast to what Tx or Fx dominants prefer. Commitment, schedule, responsibilities, having to make one choice and eliminate others all work to kill this environment and make N-dominants feel uncomfortable.

So to answer your question what's going to make an N-dominant type go "shit I've met my match" and commit to one person is really the auxilary judging function (and to some extent the tertiary function depending on how developed it is). An ENTP's auxiliary function is Ti - the function that says "ok what is most efficient and logical according to my own internal standards" aka what next move would be the most beneficial, the most winning one for me as an individual. So then you have to put ourself into shoes of the other person and see where are you located from his or her perspective among the myriad of other existing possibilities. Is there enough incentive for the other persons's judging function to decide to commit a this point of time and thus act against the ambiguity? Are you that winning possibility that his Ti values?

Another thing about ENTPs is that they seem to fall in love with future potential of the person rather than who that person really is in the present. So when your friend was courted by ENTP and gave him her full admiration and attention, the chase has ended, there was no greater potential to be achieved. Another example: I briefly met an ENTP via online games who hooked up with girls from different countries. He actively courted them, won their committment, then started preparations to move to their country. This involved him learning a new language and making money for the move. When time grew near and actually moving in with his online girlfriend became a real possibility, and committment started looming on the horizon, he found small slights with them, picked a fight and broke it off. Then he said he was heartbroken and apparently spent the money on buying 'toys' to make himself feel better and going to bars and parties. Then he found a new girl online and the cycle repeated again. It was not a sadistic game he played with girls on purpose. It is just who he was (on the bright side he now knows basics of like 5 different languages).

This is why ENTPs say that they are happiest with people who have other interests in life, who wouldn't make the ENTP the center of their world, who can ultimately make the ENTP chase that proverbial carrot for a long long time.

 

[Classy]

a bit off topic but say an extrovert went all NF&P on an NT (reacquainted childhood sweetheart) say by writing(typing) letters every few days (for a year) and sent quite a few songs (think sappy 70s) (xkcd: Close to You)this wouldn't go over so great with a T? (like scaring them to the ends of the earth xkcd: Wasteland )
So say the NFP went cold turkey kinda like this...(xkcd: Far Away)and let go this NT, all for naught? but still dreams to this...xkcd: To Be Wanted

 

[Tad Cooper]

I personally just feel differently each day so one day I'll be sad not to see people then the next I'll want to stay home and work on something by myself! I also get moods when I get really spaced out and seem disinterested but really I'm listening, I just find it hard to respond.

 

[alanv]

What's with the ENTPs need to play games? And why do you play them? And when do you decide to stop? Do you need a reaction from us to satisfy your need to win? And if we give you that, will you stop playing games and get on with it? Or you're just playing them because they can be played?

I'm currently in a game with another ENTP. At least...I think it's a game. I just want to know when it's going to end. And what I have to do to make him stop playing games and make him do something about it? Game playing is only fun for a little bit. Then it gets annoying and boring. It's like being stuck in a mud pit in Candyland. My ENTP likes to say absolutely nothing to me, then will wait for me to say something, then will flirt like crazy with me, then will stop. He used to walk me to my car, take me to lunch, and hang around me, but now there's some sudden distance (probably b/c of me and my inability to start conversation). We don't text, we hardly talk anymore, but there's this stink in the room and it's pretty obvious. I'm not sure if he's watching me, or if this is part of this stupid game.

Also, my best friend is also an INFP and in a game with my ENTPs best friend who is also an ENTP (weird...i know). What does it mean when he texts her things like "It's boring without you around" but then ignores her the next day? Her situation is opposite. He'll talk to her all the time, ask her to breakfast, get coffee with her, text her all the time, spent time making her birthday gift, and then opts out for the friend zone. WTF does this mean?!

And if an ENTP is looking for attention, should we give it to them? Or continue to play our version of the game "you're an asshole" and ignore them? What's going to make them go from "girl who i can play the game with" to "shit I've met my match, can't let that one go"?

I'd like some answers. You guys are confusing as fuck.:frustrating:

then again, i could get off my idealistic rocker and realize that it is just game playing. but i'd like to hear some ENTP oppinions first.

I've got to say that this comes across as a charge that ENTPs are all game playing asses and are guilty as charged. Furthermore, the likelihood of your friend also being and INFP who is in a relationship with an ENTP is extremely low. Which leads me to believe that you are only assuming they are of that type. However, if they have taken the test and confirmed they are INFP and ENTP, then I believe that the MBTI system has led you to gross generalizations, i.e. game playing. And that line of thinking has in turn become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That really means that your friends would be role playing.

Your post leaves little room for a fair explanation and is gushing with anger. My only explanation for your guy's behavior is that he is being inconsistent because he may not like you. Are you sure he is flirting? If you are, I suggest a confrontation. That works with me. Just ask him and don't let him cause you the stress. If he is interested in you and he is still playing games, then he probably thinks he has to win you over or something like that. You said that the flirting stopped and then there was a stink in the room. What happened to cause that? Did he meet someone else? Were you two ever intimate?

 

[alanv]

It's not a deliberate game. We are fascinated with the big wonderful world. You are something in that world. Congratulations!

But we have other things to distract us, and usually it's not even another female. It might be a shiny hubcap or string theory or our plans to start a company selling hypnosis franchises.

If you are looking for a steady, ardent lover who makes you think you are the center of his world, look elsewhere. You are competing against a shiny hubcap. And at any given moment, the hubcap is probably going to win.

Also, if you can't start or sustain an interesting conversation, you're probably better off with someone else. Just speaking from experience. Hard, painful, expensive experience.

Also, I second this part about interesting conversations. It isn't just the intellectual need, it is that I don't feel comfortable talking about mundane small talk type stuff. I just have a loss for words. That makes us a pain in the ass, unfortunately for most people. Maybe use that big old imagination INFPs have to get the conversation going.

 

[entperson]

Also, I second this part about interesting conversations. It isn't just the intellectual need, it is that I don't feel comfortable talking about mundane small talk type stuff. I just have a loss for words. That makes us a pain in the ass, unfortunately for most people. Maybe use that big old imagination INFPs have to get the conversation going.

I second your second, and also the rest of your statement lol.

Also, every time I see the title of this thread, I think of Old Greg.

 

[Tony Stark]

So to answer your question what's going to make an N-dominant type go "shit I've met my match" and commit to one person is really the auxilary judging function (and to some extent the tertiary function depending on how developed it is). An ENTP's auxiliary function is Ti - the function that says "ok what is most efficient and logical according to my own internal standards" aka what next move would be the most beneficial, the most winning one for me as an individual. So then you have to put ourself into shoes of the other person and see where are you located from his or her perspective among the myriad of other existing possibilities. Is there enough incentive for the other persons's judging function to decide to commit a this point of time and thus act against the ambiguity? Are you that winning possibility that his Ti values?

I dunno...we're not robots. For me, the best way to distract me from my distractions is in a word: "playful." Make me physically chase you around. It seems to never get old and helps me live in the moment. I need a break from my theories. It's a trigger and I morph to ESTP.

Another thing about ENTPs is that they seem to fall in love with future potential of the person rather than who that person really is in the present. So when your friend was courted by ENTP and gave him her full admiration and attention, the chase has ended...

See above.

Then he found a new girl online and the cycle repeated again. It was not a sadistic game he played with girls on purpose. It is just who he was (on the bright side he now knows basics of like 5 different languages).

I can't imagine an ENTP who would go to all that trouble for nothing. There has to be more to it than that.

This is why ENTPs say that they are happiest with people who have other interests in life, who wouldn't make the ENTP the center of their world, who can ultimately make the ENTP chase that proverbial carrot for a long long time.

ENTPs love a challenge, but I think I'd be truly happiest with someone who provided intellectual challenge, was communicative, provoked me into the moment from time to time, was as amorous as I was and loved me enough to pluck my ear hairs while reminding me I'd never find another like her.

 

[vel]

I dunno...we're not robots. For me, the best way to distract me from my distractions is in a word: "playful." Make me physically chase you around. It seems to never get old and helps me live in the moment. I need a break from my theories. It's a trigger and I morph to ESTP.

Not robots in steel and alloys kind of sense, but there is very extensive biochemical machinery that is backing up what you think is you and decisions that you make. And MBTI does correspond to how this machinery is wired - why we don't have any personality types with cognitive function layout of Te Se Fi Ti for example is that brain simply cannot be wired this way. So that was my rather technical analysis of function to behavior correlation.

Note that the OP is asking how to make her ENTP to commit to her, I guess in formal relationship sense, not just distract him for a while away from his other distractions.

I can't imagine an ENTP who would go to all that trouble for nothing. There has to be more to it than that.

Well he would also visit his new online girlfriends - purchase tickets, fly over to their country and spend a week there. He works odd jobs so very easy for him to take off, and he loves telling stories about his adventures in foreign lands. So it wasn't all for nothing - he got free lodging for duration of his stay, somebody local to show him around and visit local attractions with, and probably some sex with someone who isn't just with some random person, as he does seem to form emotional attachment to his online girlfriends.

 

[Tony Stark]

Not robots in steel and alloys kind of sense, but there is very extensive biochemical machinery that is backing up what you think is you and decisions that you make. And MBTI does correspond to how this machinery is wired - why we don't have any personality types with cognitive function layout of Te Se Fi Ti for example is that brain simply cannot be wired this way. So that was my rather technical analysis of function to behavior correlation.

Note that the OP is asking how to make her ENTP to commit to her, I guess in formal relationship sense, not just distract him for a while away from his other distractions.

Ok, we could talk about how we could be biochemical machines that are actually a simulation being run on a massive quantum computer, but that would be distracting. I think your wiring diagram for ENTPs is faulty. I'm pretty sure I have never gone through a Ti analysis about what is most efficient and logical for me as far as a relationship goes, except in a big picture, abstract way such as this discussion. In the moment, Ti goes out the window in favor of Ne. When you get right down to it, the only rational thing a Ti analysis would conclude is to stay out of relationships altogether, except for reproduction if so inclined. If one were suitably successful and intelligent male, a sperm bank might even be an attractive, logical and efficient option.

Whether completely unattached or attached, the way to escalate a relationship with an ENTP is to appeal to their Ne. ENTPs have an attraction to the unusual, quirky, different and weird.We tend to be fun-loving and adventurous. Playfully tweaking me does it for me. It's like some Pavlovian response. Simple, but effective. It distracts me and then I unload a big dose of NeTi on the victim. A lot of the standard responses here to NFs seeking to gain the attention of ENTPs is to simply say something. We're often oblivious - get our attention. If you creatively appeal to our Ne, even better. You don't have to be the logical and efficient option. It's a paradox, because ENTPs like to make things logical and efficient. We're eliminating tedium to focus on the possibilities of the unusual and different. Appeal to Ne, not Ti. Ti is used for big picture stuff and to capture that new, shiny distraction that captured our atttention.

Well he would also visit his new online girlfriends - purchase tickets, fly over to their country and spend a week there. He works odd jobs so very easy for him to take off, and he loves telling stories about his adventures in foreign lands. So it wasn't all for nothing - he got free lodging for duration of his stay, somebody local to show him around and visit local attractions with, and probably some sex with someone who isn't just with some random person, as he does seem to form emotional attachment to his online girlfriends.

Ok, so elements are there to appeal to an ENTP: adventure, uniqueness, different culture. I have to disagree that he was focused on the future potential of these girls. I contend he was inventing his own distractions in the present. He was inventing his own adventure chase to go off to foreign lands and different cultures to find love. Of course he was disappointed when he found out his fantasy was not reality. He was viewing them as some exotic adventure rather than coming to know the uniqueness of the girl herself. I can't believe he would do it five times without realizing his error. Alas, I have to refer to Einstein's definition of insanity or conclude he really was a sadistic bastard, emotional masochist, or both.

 

[elissabowden]

So, just to clarify, all the walking to my car, going to lunch with me, sharing food, messages, complements, and coffee runs were bullshit?

 

[SlowPoke68]

So, just to clarify, all the walking to my car, going to lunch with me, sharing food, messages, complements, and coffee runs were bullshit?

No! I would wager he honestly enjoys your company! Just don't turn it into a love story for the ages in your own mind. We aren't wired in the way necessary to pull that off. If you try to force it you are probably destined to always think he's playing games and being an ass to you even when he's just being himself and enjoying life.

 

[elissabowden]

that was fast. that's what i was thinking. you're right though. i have a high T preference, but when emotions get involved, i look like a crazy lady. i am good company lol hahaha. but seriously. i am. anyway, do you think this awkwardness shit will go away? and we can go back to being normal before i was talked into "he's so into you." i should've listened to justin long in HJNTIY. no spark, no bullshit. lol. if i make it not weird and back to whatever, will it be okay? or do i already look like a psycho path?

 

[yesiknowbut]

That depends. Have you already dropped your clothes and lain down in his path in the corridor?

 

[vel]

Ok, we could talk about how we could be biochemical machines that are actually a simulation being run on a massive quantum computer, but that would be distracting. I think your wiring diagram for ENTPs is faulty. I'm pretty sure I have never gone through a Ti analysis about what is most efficient and logical for me as far as a relationship goes, except in a big picture, abstract way such as this discussion. In the moment, Ti goes out the window in favor of Ne. When you get right down to it, the only rational thing a Ti analysis would conclude is to stay out of relationships altogether, except for reproduction if so inclined. If one were suitably successful and intelligent male, a sperm bank might even be an attractive, logical and efficient option.

Whether completely unattached or attached, the way to escalate a relationship with an ENTP is to appeal to their Ne. ENTPs have an attraction to the unusual, quirky, different and weird.We tend to be fun-loving and adventurous. Playfully tweaking me does it for me. It's like some Pavlovian response. Simple, but effective. It distracts me and then I unload a big dose of NeTi on the victim. A lot of the standard responses here to NFs seeking to gain the attention of ENTPs is to simply say something. We're often oblivious - get our attention. If you creatively appeal to our Ne, even better. You don't have to be the logical and efficient option. It's a paradox, because ENTPs like to make things logical and efficient. We're eliminating tedium to focus on the possibilities of the unusual and different. Appeal to Ne, not Ti. Ti is used for big picture stuff and to capture that new, shiny distraction that captured our atttention.

The Ti analysis does not happen consciously. People seem to think that if they have Fe for example that they sit there and spend hours thinking about what is acceptable according to outside social norms. When in fact the judging function just simply instantaneously makes you feel good or feel bad about a decision you've made or are about to make. It is not a conscious analysis that you would be aware of. So of course I don't expect any ENTP or INTP to sit there and actually think "lets see, how can this person be used to benefit my needs". But there is a reason why ENTPs are called opportunistic when it comes to dealing with other people. To take advantage of opportunities to benefit yourself, you have to be a tad more selfishly calculating than other people. This is a result of auxiliary Ti. However I have also noticed that there are ENTPs with better developed Fe than average. Most of ENTPs I have known are in their early 20s-30s and had strong Ti and not too much Fe working. In these ENTPs I have noticed that Fe is most often used in self-defense - threaten or try to devalue such a person and he or she will call attention to your lack of moral fibre, question your motives, call you selfish, say that you are not taking into account other people, advertise own altruistic deeds and swear on having only good intentions.

Ok, so elements are there to appeal to an ENTP: adventure, uniqueness, different culture. I have to disagree that he was focused on the future potential of these girls. I contend he was inventing his own distractions in the present. He was inventing his own adventure chase to go off to foreign lands and different cultures to find love. Of course he was disappointed when he found out his fantasy was not reality. He was viewing them as some exotic adventure rather than coming to know the uniqueness of the girl herself. I can't believe he would do it five times without realizing his error. Alas, I have to refer to Einstein's definition of insanity or conclude he really was a sadistic bastard, emotional masochist, or both.

Well the girl was the center of the adventure. If he wanted to only travel he could do just that for a bit more expenses but not have to spend all the time courting, playing online games with them, talking on webcam, exchanging emails, whatever else he did. You call it fantasy - I call it potential. In any case he was falling in love with the way the girl could be like, not the way she really was. Virtual long-distance relationships are fertile ground for this kind of love. And then somehow somewhere reality struck and he ended it.

As far as him repeating this so many times, he is just too busy trying to rearrange reality around him rather than looking inside and questioning why he is doing what he is doing. He probably thinks that other people are able to move on just as quickly as him and does not realize that he might be really hurting the feelings of those girls by first courting them so energetically then abruptly dumping them. He is in his mid-20s and is probably thinking that he is on the quest to find true love or something along those lines.

 

[Munchies]

you expect him to do everything? He probably thinks your not interested and moved on.

 

[Tony Stark]

The Ti analysis does not happen consciously. People seem to think that if they have Fe for example that they sit there and spend hours thinking about what is acceptable according to outside social norms. When in fact the judging function just simply instantaneously makes you feel good or feel bad about a decision you've made or are about to make. It is not a conscious analysis that you would be aware of. So of course I don't expect any ENTP or INTP to sit there and actually think "lets see, how can this person be used to benefit my needs". But there is a reason why ENTPs are called opportunistic when it comes to dealing with other people. To take advantage of opportunities to benefit yourself, you have to be a tad more selfishly calculating than other people. This is a result of auxiliary Ti. However I have also noticed that there are ENTPs with better developed Fe than average. Most of ENTPs I have known are in their early 20s-30s and had strong Ti and not too much Fe working. In these ENTPs I have noticed that Fe is most often used in self-defense - threaten or try to devalue such a person and he or she will call attention to your lack of moral fibre, question your motives, call you selfish, say that you are not taking into account other people, advertise own altruistic deeds and swear on having only good intentions.

Well, all processing goes through the filter of the primary function first, I believe, and that is Ne. I can't really argue with Ti as a subconscious process, because I don't particularly know what goes on there. I do know from observations here and my own experiences, ENTPs don't always selected companions that make rational sense, but there was an appeal to Ne. The question of opportunism gets at what does one really want from others. I believe Socionics is helpful here:

Type and the hidden agenda

As to whether ENTPs are more opportunistic than other types (whether Fe is developed or not), I don't honestly know. I know everyone is basically looking to gain something from others, however altruistic their actions may appear. It's the human condition - we're social animals, and we gain from each other. We each use different methods to get there, and there are certainly varying degrees of morality associated with each.

Well the girl was the center of the adventure. If he wanted to only travel he could do just that for a bit more expenses but not have to spend all the time courting, playing online games with them, talking on webcam, exchanging emails, whatever else he did. You call it fantasy - I call it potential. In any case he was falling in love with the way the girl could be like, not the way she really was. Virtual long-distance relationships are fertile ground for this kind of love. And then somehow somewhere reality struck and he ended it.

When you use the term "potential," I get the idea he was thinking he could change them into what he wanted them to be. This just doesn't sound characteristically ENTPish to me. If that is what you meant, then his disappointment must have come when they didn't bend to his will.

As far as him repeating this so many times, he is just too busy trying to rearrange reality around him rather than looking inside and questioning why he is doing what he is doing. He probably thinks that other people are able to move on just as quickly as him and does not realize that he might be really hurting the feelings of those girls by first courting them so energetically then abruptly dumping them. He is in his mid-20s and is probably thinking that he is on the quest to find true love or something along those lines.

He's insane, I think. Einstein applies.