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My apologies if there's been a similar thread created previously, but I was curious as to whether there are any themes regarding ENTP morals and how we justify our actions. Obviously, we won't all have the same, as we're all different, but I'm guessing there'll be some trends such as the ability to 'bend' our ethical principles (something I do fairly frequently) in a similar way as we 'bend' the rules of the establishment in general.

What're your moral principles that underpin most of your actions/reactions? Can you bend them? Are you able to justify things that are 'immoral' by society's standards in your own head? Also, do the other types tend to see us as amoral or immoral at all? Finally, do you often - or at all, for that matter - get flagged by friends/family/stupid people for doing 'unethical' things, or are my friend/family/people circle just hyper-sensitive? :tongue:
 
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My apologies if there's been a similar thread created previously, but I was curious as to whether there are any themes regarding ENTP morals and how we justify our actions. Obviously, we won't all have the same, as we're all different, but I'm guessing there'll be some trends such as the ability to 'bend' our ethical principles (something I do fairly frequently) in a similar way as we 'bend' the rules of the establishment in general.

What're your moral principles that underpin most of your actions/reactions? Can you bend them? Are you able to justify things that are 'immoral' by society's standards in your own head? Also, do the other types tend to see us as amoral or immoral at all? Finally, do you often - or at all, for that matter - get flagged by friends/family/stupid people for doing 'unethical' things, or are my friend/family/people circle just hyper-sensitive? :tongue:
Most ENTPs I know are utilitarian. I would not go so far as to say amoral. Most ENTPs I know have a general preference for moral behavior but not moral preaching from the pulpit and ENTPs can often imagine scenarios where a commonly accepted moral code can be brought into question. ENTPs always question established wisdom.
Then ENTPs I know think generally like myself. They are uncomfortable ( and some even repulsed) by people initiating force against others. That's not to say pacifists since self defense is usually acceptable. As and individual I try to put more emphasis on virtue and it's important to me but most ENTPs I know would not go so far as to make virtue a real issue.
My principles?

Non-aggression principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(it's pretty much a live and let live philosophy)
 

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I was curious as to whether there are any themes regarding ENTP morals and how we justify our actions.
The main theme is that there is no theme. ENTPs are by default unethical.

And this doesnt differ much from NTP to NTP. We are questioning beings. Some of us even question their own existence on a daily basis. And when you properly question morality, you almost automatically become immoral. This doesnt mean we burn and destroy everything we see, it just means, if it ever comes to that, we wouldnt have a problem with it.
 

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I don't have any codified system of morals/ethics, I just sort of do what I want or what seems right to me depending on the circumstance. I can come up with "oughts and shoulds" if I sit and think about it and there are underlying currents/trends to my opinions and actions but I don't really think about them that much. I mostly just work on a case by case basis and follow my own internal compass and it's not that often that I need to stop to consider which is the right thing to do in a situation.

I get angered when I see or hear about injustice or unfairness, the strong oppressing the weak, that sort of thing. I get angry over very little, but that will usually do it.

For me I guess it's really about not holding someone else down and imposing your will upon them through violence or anything backed by the threat of violence. I think everyone should be a sovereign unto themselves and leave people to be unless their actions are imposing on others in some way. There is a degree of mutual compromise that is involved and deference given to try and maximize this for everyone and if someone grossly violates that in some way, then force can be justified to correct or excise the problem. Sort of a do no harm approach really. If someone does do you serious harm, then completely fuck their shit up until they'll never do harm again.

I don't really get flagged by family, they might get irked on occasion that I set and follow my own rules and sense of right and wrong and won't just blindly follow whatever their opinion might be should they try to get me to follow em, but honestly I can't think of the last time this has happened. I'm really easygoing and laid back and these kind of issues don't really come up for me at all. I'll speak my opinions and confidently dissent but it doesn't seem to engender any hostility towards me usually.
 

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But "morals" and "ethics" aren't the same thing @Tzara. And ENTPs aren't so much immoral as amoral -- immorality is an awareness of morals and rejection thereof, while amorality means you don't really care about morals one way or the other. Moral conversations don't make sense to me, they're too hidebound and stultified. But that doesn't mean I don't have an innate sense of when things are and are not "right", which in its turn derives from my own personal values -- tolerance and honesty principal among them. And when I am cognizant that things aren't right -- not in an abstract sense, but when something (somebody) I care about is on the line -- then I will go to Hell and back to make things right. That, to my mind, is true ethical strength.


Kitty Sith Lord
 

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The main theme is that there is not theme. ENTPs are by default unethical.
Psh.



I think most ENTPs are principle driven. But their own hard earned principles. Certainly not to say they can't be bent under irregular circumstances, or even changed following some epiphany, but how the hell can you be a fun loving freak type AND be immoral? Doesn't add up.

I've done things "immoral" in others' eyes, but I was concrete in my own mind and soul it was right and just. Lost a good friend or two, but principles were violated.

And aggression, violence? I really don't like causing anyone physical pain, zero pleasure (well, some circumstances) but it can be a dangerous place out there so I've certainly felt obliged to learn, rather well, how to inflict it and take it, should the need arise.

MOST ethical quandaries should be taken on a case by case basis, and the whole should be considered.
 

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And aggression, violence? I really don't like causing anyone physical pain, zero pleasure (well, some circumstances) but it can be a dangerous place out there so I've certainly felt obliged to learn, rather well, how to inflict it and take it, should the need arise.
Definitely agreed on the physical pain part.
 

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Definitely agreed on the physical pain part.
And I love your avatar, btw.

I generally hate gif avatars, they just make me SOO FUCKING MAADDD!!!

j/k. about the mad part.
 
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The main theme is that there is not theme. ENTPs are by default unethical.

And this doesnt differ much from NTP to NTP. We are questioning beings. Some of us even question their own existence on a daily basis. And when you properly question morality, you almost automatically become immoral. This doesnt mean we burn and destroy everything we see, it just means, if it ever comes to that, we wouldnt have a problem with it.
You do not speak for me. lol
 

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Do you have ethical/moral values that you cant break under no circumstance?
I acknowledge there a 'lifeboat scenarios' but that doesn't invalidate an entire principle for me. Lifeboats are rare and not the norm. I'm talking about everyday ethics/morals. I'm not an absolutist.

I think stealing is unethical and theft is immoral but I can see the gray area in someone stealing some food to feed his/her kid if starvation was the alternative. That doesn't mean I see stealing as permissible in general.
 

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Do you have ethical/moral values that you cant break under no circumstance?
I would like to meet the person who is physically unable to break their ethical principles.
 
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I acknowledge there a 'lifeboat scenarios' but that doesn't invalidate an entire principle for me. Lifeboats are rare and not the norm. I'm talking about everyday ethics/morals. I'm not an absolutist.

I think stealing is unethical and theft is immoral but I can see the gray area in someone stealing some food to feed his/her kid if starvation was the alternative. That doesn't mean I see stealing as permissible in general.
So you are saying: X is wrong unless its justifiable.
Thats practically translates as amoral.

(Should have probably written amoral instead of unethical in my main post but meh.)
 

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I would like to meet the person who is physically unable to break their ethical principles.
Reading Kant was like a mental torture to me.
 
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So you are saying: X is wrong unless its justifiable.
Thats practically translates as amoral.

(Should have probably written amoral instead of unethical in my main post but meh.)
Not quite.

I could say stealing food from a baker to feed one's starving child is justifiable. But that doesn't universalize. Meaning just because someone stole some food for their starving kid doesn't mean its also justified for a person to rob a bank. That is not amoral.

Amoral is being like 'shit happens' to a rape victim.
 

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Yes,
As long as the rape was justifiable.
Does justifiable even have meaning to a self proclaimed amoral person? How do you distinguish rape from love making?
 

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Reading Kant was like a mental torture to me.
German philosophy students often say Kant is easier to read in English than in German ...


Kitty Sith Lord
 
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