Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know these are somewhat odd types to be caught between, but does anyone know any definite ways to tell whether you're one or the other?

I'm too emotionally-oriented to be an ENTP but seem to lack half of the typical Ni traits found in the INFJ. I'm either a strangely structured and planning-oriented weirdly emotional ENTP, or a particularly rational INFJ with a poorly-developed dominant function.
 

·
Birdie Borracho
Joined
·
9,380 Posts
I know these are somewhat odd types to be caught between, but does anyone know any definite ways to tell whether you're one or the other?

I'm too emotionally-oriented to be an ENTP but seem to lack half of the typical Ni traits found in the INFJ. I'm either a strangely structured and planning-oriented weirdly emotional ENTP, or a particularly rational INFJ with a poorly-developed dominant function.
Wow, these two types are very different. Do you know if you are an extrovert or introvert? Or did you pick these types because you're intuitive dominant?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wow, these two types are very different. Do you know if you are an extrovert or introvert? Or did you pick these types because you're intuitive dominant?
I think I'm an introvert, but extroversion isn't out of the question; whichever side I actually fall on, I'm somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. INFJs are relatively extroverted introverts, and ENTPs are relatively introverted extroverts. And I picked them because 1. I know I have Fe and Ti, 2. I know I have neither in the inferior position, and 3. I'm not a sensor. Also, process of elimination helped.

Correct me if I'm wrong but ExxP sees the universe as one gigantic sandbox that they can play in and interact with everything in it. INFJ is almost the opposite of that.
I'm having trouble assigning that description to a human experience? Maybe that's indicative of a lack of extroverted perceiving, but it's just as likely I don't really understand what you're getting at.



There are a lot of factors as to why I'm caught between them. I have ADHD which makes me at least act very extroverted and perceiving-y (as an unmedicated kid I'd probably have been typed as an ESTP at first glance), I was raised in a fairly logic-oriented environment, years spent in deep introspection has warped my perception of my own personality, confidence issues could be responsible for a lack of Ni certainty...
 

·
Birdie Borracho
Joined
·
9,380 Posts
I think I'm an introvert, but extroversion isn't out of the question; whichever side I actually fall on, I'm somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. INFJs are relatively extroverted introverts, and ENTPs are relatively introverted extroverts. And I picked them because 1. I know I have Fe and Ti, 2. I know I have neither in the inferior position, and 3. I'm not a sensor. Also, process of elimination helped.


I'm having trouble assigning that description to a human experience? Maybe that's indicative of a lack of extroverted perceiving, but it's just as likely I don't really understand what you're getting at.



There are a lot of factors as to why I'm caught between them. I have ADHD which makes me at least act very extroverted and perceiving-y (as an unmedicated kid I'd probably have been typed as an ESTP at first glance), I was raised in a fairly logic-oriented environment, years spent in deep introspection has warped my perception of my own personality, confidence issues could be responsible for a lack of Ni certainty...
When you visualize something, intuitively, like how you perceive a person, do you use Ne or Ni? Ne is like connecting the dots by doing research or connecting ideas until the picture takes place. For instance, when I meet someone to try and figure out their type, I look at specific traits and compare those traits to other people. I also observe mannerisms and break them down individually. When all else fails, I'll ask them questions to help determine their type. Of course, they don't know I'm doing this, but I use a "never-ending" approach in life that says there is always more to investigate. I do not rely on my own gut instincts to say this is a certain way. I'd rather ask questions and bounce my theories off other people to see if they have any merit.

Ni is more "Fill in the blanks." You have a general outline of how a concept appears. Ni doms trust their intuition to fill in the blanks and from there they make determinations as to what they are intuitively visualizing. I occasionally use Ni when I think "Sah, you are going to be broke soon and you know this will piss people off." My Ne takes over and says "Sah, this is just a challenge to overcome, and we'll wing it." Ni likes to be prepared so that consequences are predictable. Like General Napoleon who already detailed his entire battle plan. Ni is energized when these intuitive revelations begin to prove themselves. Pi-doms will study for hours, for a test, because preparation is important.

Ne considers "what if" scenarios but enjoys to be thrown into the chaos. Whenever I take a test, I think that I've heard this material before and I will use logic (With Ti) to eliminate other answers to narrow down something the choices. Ne-Si is inductive in that it compares what has been sensed, before, (Si) with new discoveries and then investigates what could possibly be hypothesized. Ni-Se is deductive in that is takes what can be sensed (Se) and determines what is most likely based on a blast of intuition. I've found that Ne users love the chase of knowledge while Ni users are confident that their knowledge already makes them prepared. A final way to look at it is thriving in chaos (Ne) or turning chaos into order (Ni).

Not all of my descriptions are perfect so I tried to provide a lot of different options to work with. If you like that style of reasoning, you're probably ENTP. If you would prefer that all of my points were more thought out, instead of me winging it, then you'd probably lean more towards INFJ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
546 Posts
Why is it those 2 types in particular that you are caught between? What do you get on MBTI tests?

Why have you ruled out something like ENFP?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Why is it those 2 types in particular that you are caught between? What do you get on MBTI tests?

Why have you ruled out something like ENFP?
Because I don’t have Fi. I’ve never taken a functions test; on the dichotomy tests I usually get INFP (which I also can’t be because Fi).



When you visualize something, intuitively, like how you perceive a person, do you use Ne or Ni? Ne is like connecting the dots by doing research or connecting ideas until the picture takes place. For instance, when I meet someone to try and figure out their type, I look at specific traits and compare those traits to other people. I also observe mannerisms and break them down individually. When all else fails, I'll ask them questions to help determine their type. Of course, they don't know I'm doing this, but I use a "never-ending" approach in life that says there is always more to investigate. I do not rely on my own gut instincts to say this is a certain way. I'd rather ask questions and bounce my theories off other people to see if they have any merit.

Ni is more "Fill in the blanks." You have a general outline of how a concept appears. Ni doms trust their intuition to fill in the blanks and from there they make determinations as to what they are intuitively visualizing. I occasionally use Ni when I think "Sah, you are going to be broke soon and you know this will piss people off." My Ne takes over and says "Sah, this is just a challenge to overcome, and we'll wing it." Ni likes to be prepared so that consequences are predictable. Like General Napoleon who already detailed his entire battle plan. Ni is energized when these intuitive revelations begin to prove themselves. Pi-doms will study for hours, for a test, because preparation is important.

Ne considers "what if" scenarios but enjoys to be thrown into the chaos. Whenever I take a test, I think that I've heard this material before and I will use logic (With Ti) to eliminate other answers to narrow down something the choices. Ne-Si is inductive in that it compares what has been sensed, before, (Si) with new discoveries and then investigates what could possibly be hypothesized. Ni-Se is deductive in that is takes what can be sensed (Se) and determines what is most likely based on a blast of intuition. I've found that Ne users love the chase of knowledge while Ni users are confident that their knowledge already makes them prepared. A final way to look at it is thriving in chaos (Ne) or turning chaos into order (Ni).

Not all of my descriptions are perfect so I tried to provide a lot of different options to work with. If you like that style of reasoning, you're probably ENTP. If you would prefer that all of my points were more thought out, instead of me winging it, then you'd probably lean more towards INFJ.

Hmm. In terms of typing people, I usually base it off gut instincts but always use concrete facts (“animated facial expressions indicate Fe”) to back it up or ask questions to confirm. It’s usually based off of a vibe that could technically be described with Words and Facts but like, pretty poorly. (“i think this guy is an Ni dom because he seems sort of… detached? floaty. like he’s always watching us, but not in a creepy way. because he talks slow, and careful. hover-y?” <— an actual description of my first impression of an INFJ guy I know. I filled in the Fe part with a few questions). But I’m never confident in my vibes without concrete data to back it up. I mean, It’s just a gut feeling and human perception is inherently flawed.

I love to be prepared and would probably live my entire life by a schedule if I could create one that was perfect, as well as having enough flexibility to adapt to the inevitable changes in the world around me and the chance of a shift in my own opinions. Problem is mainly that I don’t; I have an awful study ethic and a heavy tendency towards procrastination and tend to, ehm, binge watch all of the Clone Wars the week before finals. (Or, you know, spend my time worrying over meaningless personality classifications on forums instead of doing my lab report.)

All this is making me think I’m an INFJ, but just a really, really shitty one? Like, I’m not confident in any of my knowledge at all, I love to be prepared but I rarely am, I love turning chaos into order (if I'm understanding that right) but I’m incapable of applying it in any productive way to my own life…
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
I love to be prepared and would probably live my entire life by a schedule if I could create one that was perfect, as well as having enough flexibility to adapt to the inevitable changes in the world around me and the chance of a shift in my own opinions. Problem is mainly that I don’t; I have an awful study ethic and a heavy tendency towards procrastination and tend to, ehm, binge watch all of the Clone Wars the week before finals. (Or, you know, spend my time worrying over meaningless personality classifications on forums instead of doing my lab report.)

All this is making me think I’m an INFJ, but just a really, really shitty one? Like, I’m not confident in any of my knowledge at all, I love to be prepared but I rarely am, I love turning chaos into order (if I'm understanding that right) but I’m incapable of applying it in any productive way to my own life…
I'm an IxFx, and I totally get this.

I would recommend taking a few functions tests; the results might surprise you. Based on the descriptions I have read, I feel like I use Fe, but somehow I usually test very high for Fi. I think it can sometimes be difficult to objectively examine your own cognitive functions.
 

·
Registered
IEE
Joined
·
6,559 Posts
Because I don’t have Fi. I’ve never taken a functions test; on the dichotomy tests I usually get INFP (which I also can’t be because Fi).
What do you think Fi is?

Hmm. In terms of typing people, I usually base it off gut instincts but always use concrete facts (“animated facial expressions indicate Fe”)There's a difference between Fi and Fe mimics but it's not basic "Fi don't move, Fe can't stop moving" at all. to back it up or ask questions to confirm. It’s usually based off of a vibe that could technically be described with Words and Facts but like, pretty poorly. (“i think this guy is an Ni dom because he seems sort of… detached? floaty. like he’s always watching us, but not in a creepy way. because he talks slow, and careful. hover-y?” <— an actual description of my first impression of an INFJ guy I know. I filled in the Fe part with a few questions). Wrong. Not a Ni dom description. But I’m never confident in my vibes without concrete data to back it up. I mean, It’s just a gut feeling and human perception is inherently flawed.It's not about gut, it's about observing and learning to apply theory.

I love to be prepared and would probably live my entire life by a schedule if I could create one that was perfect, as well as having enough flexibility to adapt to the inevitable changes in the world around me and the chance of a shift in my own opinions. <-This is not Ni or Ne dominant. Problem is mainly that I don’t; I have an awful study ethic and a heavy tendency towards procrastination and tend to, ehm, binge watch all of the Clone Wars the week before finals. (Or, you know, spend my time worrying over meaningless personality classifications on forums instead of doing my lab report.)<- Human trait.

All this is making me think I’m an INFJ, but just a really, really shitty one? Like, I’m not confident in any of my knowledge at all, I love to be prepared but I rarely am, I love turning chaos into order (if I'm understanding that right) but I’m incapable of applying it in any productive way to my own life… Nothing about this says Ni dom at all. I'd hypothesize inferior Te.
Fill questionnaire. This is tarot-style guessing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Fi is an internal system of emotions and morality. Fi people have values that are internal to them, rather than environment based. They’re in tune with their own emotions, rather than those of the people around them, and thus aren’t as unconditionally empathetic as Fe people. (And yes, I’m aware that having an expressive face isn’t a definite indicator of having Fe. It was the first example of a physical sign of a function I could think of.) Fi is about individuality and integrity, Fe is about social harmony and empathy.

I’m an emotional mirror; my mood and feelings heavily reflect those of the people around me and I tend to copy mannerisms and speech patterns of everyone who I’m around. I cry or otherwise get emotional frequently regardless of my personal stake in whatever is happening. I have no internal morals, and instead all of my current values have been a result of various communities I’ve been a part of in the past few years. And I don’t have an internal sense that these values are inherently correct, and tend to doubt them frequently. I also have difficulty connecting on a certain level to the Fi people that I know, because I find their moral subjectivity difficult to deal with.

(And in terms of objectively examining ones own personality, I agree that it’s difficult which is why I’m on this personality forum in the first place.)

And actually, he is an INFJ. Unsure why you’re so confident that he, a person that you don’t know, isn’t one based off of my shitty vague descriptions that I prefaced by saying were verbalized poorly. Clearly something about what I felt was on the mark, considering I confirmed it with questions and showed him multiple profiles afterwards, with which he identified. So in your opinion, which type best fits the description of “hover-y”? It was a vibe, and not really expressible in words.

I doubt I have inferior Te either, because I also have heavy evidence towards some degree of Ti. I enjoy following up on information for its own sake, complex systems and organization intrigue me, I fit information into an internal system of logic…

I’ve looked up and taken a handful of functions tests. First one I got ENFJ, with well-developed Fe and moderately-developed other functions, the next three most developed of which were Ni, Ti, and Ne. Second one I got strong tendencies towards Fe and Ti, and a mediocre (40%) tendency towards both Ni and Ne. Third I once again got heavy Fe, Fi, and Ni, with mediocre Ne/Te/Ti. Which all sort of point to being an ENFJ, which I suppose is technically possible, but I don’t think I’m quite as people oriented and emotionally compelling as your average ENFJ, as well as having pretty active Ti for it to be my inferior function.
 

·
Birdie Borracho
Joined
·
9,380 Posts
Because I don’t have Fi. I’ve never taken a functions test; on the dichotomy tests I usually get INFP (which I also can’t be because Fi).






Hmm. In terms of typing people, I usually base it off gut instincts but always use concrete facts (“animated facial expressions indicate Fe”) to back it up or ask questions to confirm. It’s usually based off of a vibe that could technically be described with Words and Facts but like, pretty poorly. (“i think this guy is an Ni dom because he seems sort of… detached? floaty. like he’s always watching us, but not in a creepy way. because he talks slow, and careful. hover-y?” <— an actual description of my first impression of an INFJ guy I know. I filled in the Fe part with a few questions). But I’m never confident in my vibes without concrete data to back it up. I mean, It’s just a gut feeling and human perception is inherently flawed.

I love to be prepared and would probably live my entire life by a schedule if I could create one that was perfect, as well as having enough flexibility to adapt to the inevitable changes in the world around me and the chance of a shift in my own opinions. Problem is mainly that I don’t; I have an awful study ethic and a heavy tendency towards procrastination and tend to, ehm, binge watch all of the Clone Wars the week before finals. (Or, you know, spend my time worrying over meaningless personality classifications on forums instead of doing my lab report.)

All this is making me think I’m an INFJ, but just a really, really shitty one? Like, I’m not confident in any of my knowledge at all, I love to be prepared but I rarely am, I love turning chaos into order (if I'm understanding that right) but I’m incapable of applying it in any productive way to my own life…
You sound like an INFJ. Some INFJs can be laid back and perceptive while others are more gung-ho and organized. Your use of functions is what makes you your type and your answers reveal more Ni than Ne, in my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,107 Posts
I think I can help. These two types are actually more alike than one might assume, because people tend to underestimate the influence of the tertiary function. INFJs are, in many ways, the most NT-like of all the NFs; whereas NFPs have Fi at their core, giving them a noticeable inner-warmth, and ENFJs have dominant Fe, giving them an overwhelming outer-warmth, INFJs have a very strong Ti, giving them a certain inner-coldness, emotional objectivity, and aloofness not shared by their fellow NFs. Likewise, ENTPs are the most NF-like of the NTs, since their strong Fe gives them a fun-loving, approachable demeanor that one doesn't usually associate with NTs. Here's a guide: ENTPs are naturally the class clown, but with a flare for abstract thought, whereas INFJs are cerebral intellectuals who can play multiple roles–including the class clown–in order to camouflage themselves in social situations.

So how does one sort through all of this out? Well, you have to understand the difference between Ne and Ni, and in order to have any working understanding of the perceiving functions, one must grasp this basic principal: sensation is concerned with what is, intuition is concerned with what could be. Se looks at what is in the here-and-now, looking at the outside world for ways to act upon it; Si looks at what is in relation to what has been experienced before, creating a matrix of experience for the user to draw upon. Ne is paired with Si, and uses its library-esque inner world to draw a spider web of possibilities in the outer world. Ni is paired with Se, it looks at in-the-moment sensual data to synthesize insight about it. Ne is much more detailed in its intuitions than Ni, since it has a greater wealth of data to draw from, whereas Ni is better at reconciling the paradoxes in its perception, and discounts frills, as getting hung up on them would hinder its ability to work in the moment. Ni is also slower than Ne, Ne-doms can generate their possibilities in the moment and use the judging function to widdle down the ones the user finds unsound, whereas an Ni-dom's insight come to them "in a flash," after having processed all the data. Ne is playful, where Ni is intense. Ne is versatile, where Ni is visionary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
You sound more INFJ than ENTP. Can't see Ne much in what you wrote.

If you don't know what type you are, your interests may tell you ;)
Clone Wars is borderline INFJ-ENTP - epic-drama scifi-style, but focuses more on social structures (Fe) than scientific principles (Ti).

What else do you watch?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You sound more INFJ than ENTP. Can't see Ne much in what you wrote.

If you don't know what type you are, your interests may tell you ;)
Clone Wars is borderline INFJ-ENTP - epic-drama scifi-style, but focuses more on social structures (Fe) than scientific principles (Ti).

What else do you watch?
In my six-tiered system of favorite shows and movie series, the first two tiers include:
  • Star Wars in general
  • Lord of the Rings/Tolkien
  • DC, comics/movies/shows (Young Justice stands out, as well as JL: Doom, both Dark Knight Returns movies, and Under the Red Hood. I'm in the process of consuming every piece of animated and live-action media regarding the universe.)
  • Star Trek, especially DS9
  • Homestuck

General trends in the media I consume: I prefer character-oriented works to action-oriented ones and I'm very interested in depictions of realistic emotional repercussions; I enjoy huge, old canons full of information and history; I love complex, interconnecting universes that play with things like timelines, alternate dimensions, gods/multiple power levels acting as manipulators, manifestations of abstract concepts... The deeper the myth arc of a story goes, the more likely I'll enjoy it. I also like things that take advantage of and reference their medium. My favorite episodes on TV shows I watch are invariably very character-oriented and usually based around characters experiencing their worst fears or being somehow emotionally broken down. I literally never get tired of emotional drama. Also, I'll probably enjoy anything that involves superheroes.

My favorite books and authors are Tolkien, Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon by Neil Stephenson, Ender's Game, and the Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Now I see how confused you are :p
But I think you definitely are not ENTP.

Maybe you should be deciding between INFJ and ENFJ?
If not interests, you can also take a look at your snap decisions
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,107 Posts
In my six-tiered system of favorite shows and movie series, the first two tiers include:
  • Star Wars in general
  • Lord of the Rings/Tolkien
  • DC, comics/movies/shows (Young Justice stands out, as well as JL: Doom, both Dark Knight Returns movies, and Under the Red Hood. I'm in the process of consuming every piece of animated and live-action media regarding the universe.)
  • Star Trek, especially DS9
  • Homestuck

General trends in the media I consume: I prefer character-oriented works to action-oriented ones and I'm very interested in depictions of realistic emotional repercussions; I enjoy huge, old canons full of information and history; I love complex, interconnecting universes that play with things like timelines, alternate dimensions, gods/multiple power levels acting as manipulators, manifestations of abstract concepts... The deeper the myth arc of a story goes, the more likely I'll enjoy it. I also like things that take advantage of and reference their medium. My favorite episodes on TV shows I watch are invariably very character-oriented and usually based around characters experiencing their worst fears or being somehow emotionally broken down. I literally never get tired of emotional drama. Also, I'll probably enjoy anything that involves superheroes.

My favorite books and authors are Tolkien, Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon by Neil Stephenson, Ender's Game, and the Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman.
If I had to guess just by reading this, I'd say INFP. Particularly the bolded part, which is some real Ne-Si shit. I know you don't think you have Fi, but oftentimes we don't notice the dominant function in ourselves; the idea being that we use it so much that we sort-of just take it for granted, so it's like asking a fish to describe water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If I had to guess just by reading this, I'd say INFP. Particularly the bolded part, which is some real Ne-Si shit. I know you don't think you have Fi, but oftentimes we don't notice the dominant function in ourselves; the idea being that we use it so much that we sort-of just take it for granted, so it's like asking a fish to describe water.
Honestly, I don't think it's possible for me to have Fi-Te? Even if I ignore my personal perception of myself, the evidence for Fe-Ti is overwhelming; everything from the fields I'm interested in to those function tests I took to the ways people have described me points towards it. Looking at it from the perspective of inferior functions, I also don't have any of the typical inferior-Te vices.

I mean, if something is your dominant function you should be able to see some evidence of it, right? I honestly can't think of a single thing about me that points towards Fi-Te, and I have an overwhelming amount of evidence pointing towards Fe/Ti. The bolded stuff does read like heavy Ne-Si, but I think I'd have more exceptions and abnormalities to my type as an INFP than as a Fe/Ti type without Ne-Si.

This basically brings everything back to the whole INFJ/ENTP debate. And in terms of Ne-aux types, I think even INTP would be more likely than INFP. (I don't think I'm an INTP at all - too introverted and not emotional enough - but I still think it's more likely.)
 

·
Grumpy old bastard
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
B
Hmm. In terms of typing people, I usually base it off gut instincts but always use concrete facts (“animated facial expressions indicate Fe”) to back it up or ask questions to confirm. It’s usually based off of a vibe …

said no Ti user ever............

i'm believing Fe, and N of some sort. INFJ is my guess.....

do a questionaire.

Let's say you are listening to a professor, and he is full of shit, and you've got too more hours of boredom.
Do you:
a. strike up an argument pointing out what an idiot the prof is.
b. sit quietly so as to not interrupt other students.
c. day dream.
d. ____________
 

·
Grumpy old bastard
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
Wait, so you don't think she's a Ti user, but you guess INFJ?
assumption was under the age of 25, and at that age not much if any tertiary anything for most people......

further, infj would TOTALLY go by gut and use logic to fill in later if need be regardless of age when looking at people and relationships.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top