ENTPs in the Military
[ENTP]
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I did my time in the navy. Once I realized which parts were a game, and which were important, the rest of it was pretty easy.
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Same branch. What parts would you consider a game vs. which parts were important?
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Boot camp and the inspection stuff were the game. The in rate stuff was generally important even if I didn't pay as much attention as I should have (hello, blown off PMS).
On some level, field days were probably a game, but I usually liked the break from the job stuff, so it wasn't to bad. At sea, there didn;t seem to be a whole lot of playing military (ie uniforms and uber cleanliness); it always struck me as a "time to make the donuts" thing as the next watch came up or whatnot.
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Haha. I was going to go for the AW/SW designation while at sea, but I knew I was going to get out and so I was like, "Why create all this extra work for myself if I'm just going to get out?" I've worked in academia (government), but there is no amount of bureaucracy and "game playing" quite like there is in the military. When I was at sea, I sometimes literally felt like I was in prison. Even down to "paying the laundry guy cash to get your laundry done in less than 24 hours" or seeing people have their family/friends mail them packages containing rolls of tobacco tins...and then they would sell the individual tobacco tins (totally illegal) and make some really good money on the side. There was just so much strange stuff going on. Strange experience.
Edit: Oh, and playing spades every night. That added to the prison feel too.
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Heh. I work for a government entity myself, and I got out of my navy field (nuclear) for the same reason- too political. Although, I will say that I kind of liked the underground economy on the carrier. I guess if I ever focused on it, prison probably was similar (but I bet there would be less horseplay and wrestling...)
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Oh god. Pink bellies. Ouch. I still remember the calls of "You got to take it like a b*&^tch before you can give it like a man."
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Join the airforce and fly some planes. GO FFASSSSSTT....You know how overpowered you would be in an a-10? Fuckin, flyin around drunk, shootin shit with that big ass "vulcan canon" hahaha.
My grandpa flew bombers in 'nam. Must have been interesting. Dropping liquid fire on hoards of Vietcong dudes,lighting up a forest....now he sits at home, and does crossword puzzles. I liike to talk to him about his stories he has about flying planes and shit. He would fly fighter jets like the f-4. He told me he would fly like 50 feet over the ocean, or fly high up and just fly strait down goin full speed....thatd be some fun shit
My grandpa flew bombers in 'nam. Must have been interesting. Dropping liquid fire on hoards of Vietcong dudes,lighting up a forest....now he sits at home, and does crossword puzzles. I liike to talk to him about his stories he has about flying planes and shit. He would fly fighter jets like the f-4. He told me he would fly like 50 feet over the ocean, or fly high up and just fly strait down goin full speed....thatd be some fun shit
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ENTP and military did sound splendid
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i don't know about others ENTPs, but the 2 ENTP of my family and I. don't like at all military things.
we like the idea of flying and go fast; of course!
but we won't never served or countrie like that.
i absolutely don't want to fight against people i don't know, or people who did nothing to me or my family and friends, just because of the politician of our both country declared war for a reason i don't know. Or for a fake reasons.
we doesn't want to die for our countrie. In our mind, it's just a piece of the earth. And, the reasons of a war are often Hidden.
i don't know about others ENTPs but the ENTP of my family and I, never follow the rules we don't like, or the rules we consider stupid.
in fact i don't see myself and my ENTPs, policemen/ or military at all.
we are not followers, we never consider that all the rules are fair, so it would be too difficult for us to apply unfair rules.
for example: i used to smoke weed, when i was a teenager. and i don't consider smokers as bad people. so i will never be able to put them in jail just because they smoked some weed. i will never apply that roule, even if i was a policeman. they were just having fun.
anyway, some people could think it's fun to go to different country to fight against mad people (like they use to call them), with big guns in a big plane. they probably think nothing will happen to them, just because there friend cameback or there uncle. They never expect to die when they become a military, but military is design to kill people. this is not a game. what does they expect from there enemies? to be happy? they will kill them back!! period.
this is not a funny job at all, that job doesn't need you to THINK, or to create something.
You just need to apply like a good soldier and to die without knowing the true reason of your premature death. THAT'S WHAT ARMY IS DESIGN FOR.
Anyway, i don't think a lot of ENTP would like to be a soldier. May be we could fit in the very very upper class army.
we like the idea of flying and go fast; of course!
but we won't never served or countrie like that.
i absolutely don't want to fight against people i don't know, or people who did nothing to me or my family and friends, just because of the politician of our both country declared war for a reason i don't know. Or for a fake reasons.
we doesn't want to die for our countrie. In our mind, it's just a piece of the earth. And, the reasons of a war are often Hidden.
i don't know about others ENTPs but the ENTP of my family and I, never follow the rules we don't like, or the rules we consider stupid.
in fact i don't see myself and my ENTPs, policemen/ or military at all.
we are not followers, we never consider that all the rules are fair, so it would be too difficult for us to apply unfair rules.
for example: i used to smoke weed, when i was a teenager. and i don't consider smokers as bad people. so i will never be able to put them in jail just because they smoked some weed. i will never apply that roule, even if i was a policeman. they were just having fun.
anyway, some people could think it's fun to go to different country to fight against mad people (like they use to call them), with big guns in a big plane. they probably think nothing will happen to them, just because there friend cameback or there uncle. They never expect to die when they become a military, but military is design to kill people. this is not a game. what does they expect from there enemies? to be happy? they will kill them back!! period.
this is not a funny job at all, that job doesn't need you to THINK, or to create something.
You just need to apply like a good soldier and to die without knowing the true reason of your premature death. THAT'S WHAT ARMY IS DESIGN FOR.
Anyway, i don't think a lot of ENTP would like to be a soldier. May be we could fit in the very very upper class army.
LoL, I was a nuke too. Well I would have been. My military career was fairly short. I hated every second of it. There was just this "SJ vibe" everywhere that drove me nutz.
Lived in a very SJ household for all my life. I'll survive (hopefully
). Anyway, I only plan on doing one or two terms of service unless by some miracle I manage to make it into SOF. Anyway, I was if any other ENTPs think that they are some traits that would actually GIVE an ENTP an advantage in the military?
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Advantage: Probably only if you're a nuke, work in intel, or if you're an officer (meaning you get to make some actual decisions). Others can correct me if I'm wrong.Lived in a very SJ household for all my life. I'll survive (hopefully
I was thinking about trying to become an NCO. How would that work out for an ENTP?
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Currently in the marine corps I have a month left though, the SJ environment sucks unless you know how to manipulate your command and co workers. Time flys by.
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My dad is an ENTP and he was in the reserves. He seemed to really enjoy it. I'm sure you'll do great!
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NCO doesn't mean a whole lot to be honest with you. I was an E-5 in the Navy, which is a Second Class Petty Officer (NCO). All that really means is that I am senior to anyone who is E-1 through E-4. Anyone E-6 or above was senior to me. I think E-4's through E-9's in the enlisted ranks are deemed NCO's. So, E-1 through E-3 are the only people who are not NCO's (I think is how it works in most/all branches). So, as an E-5 I was just in the "middle" of the enlisted ranks. Here's a breakdown of how it seemed to work in the Navy (most other branches should be similar):
E-1: Total noob. (Title: Airman or Seaman Recruit) (<2 years in the military)
E-2: (Airman or Seaman Apprentice). You've gained a little bit of experience or got meritoriously promoted (<2 years)
E-3: (Airman or Seaman). You're like a "senior grunt". You're still a grunt, but you may be tasked with showing the E-1/E-2's the ropes. (~1-4 years)
E-4: NCO. (3rd Class Petty Officer). You're now expected to show/learn a bit of leadership skills. You're still going to be working "hands on" with the E-1 to E-3's, but you might be something like a "team leader", for lack of a better term (1-10 years)
E-5: (2nd Class Petty Officer). In the Navy, this was basically a shop supervisor or assistant shop super. So, let's say you work in the parachute shop. You'll probably be the shop lead on the 2nd shift (night shift) - you'd be running your office/shop either at night or in the absence of the E-6 shop supervisor (2-20 years)
E-6: (1st Class Petty Officer). Shop supervisor. You would be in charge of the parachute shop for a squadron, for instance. Some shops had 6 guys, some other shops (like the mechanic shop, hydraulic shop, airframe shop, etc.) had like 15 guys (5-20+ years)
E-7: Chief Petty Officer. In the Navy, this is where you change uniforms - you're now a Chief Petty Officer (still NCO). So, as an E-7 you would oversee a few different shops. The E-6 supervisors would report to you. You're also expected to be extremely knowledgeable at your particular job. If anything goes wrong or if the E-5's/6's can't figure things out, you had better know the answer at this level. (8-20+ years)
E-8: Senior Chief Petty Officer. These guys are very senior within the enlisted ranks. Very, very knowledgeable and very well respected. (15-20+ years).
E-9: Master Chief Petty Officer. The senior most people in the enlisted ranks. They are basically running/overseeing the operations of an entire aircraft squadron. They report to the officers (Commanding Officer/Executive Officer, etc.) on the technical aspects of what is going on. (20+ years).
Now, maybe by NCO you meant that you wanted to start enlisted and transfer to the officer ranks? It's very rare for this to happen, but every year they allow applications and a few select individuals are selected to move to the officer ranks. For instance, a good friend of mine just recently moved from E-7 to O-1 in the Navy. He's now a commissioned officer. He never became an E-8 or E-9. Again, this is extremely rare - this guy was an E-6 with the Blue Angels and he wants to be a congressman one day. He's ENTJ and he's extremely dedicated and motivated...and they recognized it and rewarded him. I think E-5's and higher are eligible to apply for this, but if your performance evaluations are less than perfect you basically have no chance. Since he's already 14 years into his career, the highest he'll probably go is O-3 or O-4 (if he stays in for 25-30 years). These guys have mucho respect because they worked their way through the enlisted ranks - so they have the technical knowledge of everyone else (they were once grunts), but now they are running stuff.
So, you have E-1 through E-9 in the enlisted ranks. And O-1 through O-10 in the officer ranks. The old guys you see giving press briefings from the Pentagon are basically O-6 and above. In between the E's and the O's, you have "Warrant Officers". These guys are also former enlisted who have applied to be promoted to the officer ranks. There is WO-1 through WO-5. They are officers as well, but they are sort of more "technical" officers. Still expected to be involved in the "technical things" of the enlisted ranks, even though they are officers.
So, in my squadron, E-1's through E-3's did all the grunt work on the jets (repairs, inspections, heavy lifting, etc.). E-4's and E-5's led the work and performed some of the more complex stuff. E-6's basically supervised and was the resident expert.
So while NCO's are expected to know what they are doing and expected to take on some leadership roles (especially in times of conflict), you're still VERY much in the highly structured, daily grind of military life.
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Reserves are quite different unless you've been called to active duty. The daily grind of military life is much different than the reserve setup of 1 weekend per month of training and 2 weeks per year. I'm sure your dad probably got called to active duty at some point in his reserve career, in which case he experienced the every day aspect of it.
And yeah, I hope I'm not discouraging @asewland from joining. He should try it if his heart is set on it - he'll be fine. I just have to be honest about the highly structured, routinized, grind of a life that it is when you are enlisted for 365 days out of the year. You really aren't able to "make decisions". Everything has a manual, a policy, an SOP (standard operating procedure), etc. If you're showing up on time every single solitary day and staying within the rules, then you'll fit in just fine. As soon as you start to push the envelope, you're going to stand out like a soar thumb.
Here's a really silly example of something that shocked me when I joined. When you're in the lower ranks, if you're sick (like throwing up sick), you have to get out of bed, get in your uniform, and drive to work (on time...don't be late!) and get permission to go see the doctor. And then the doctor decides if you're too sick to work or not. If he says you don't have a temperature, you're going back to work. If he says you're sick, then he'll give you an excused absence for the day. If you're still sick the next day, you have to do it all over again. Or maybe the doc will give you 2 days off if you're really sick. This was the kind of stuff I just couldn't hack anymore after 4 years.
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