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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi, I'm french but I'll try to be as precise as possible and to write so you can understand me.

So I'm with this ESFJ girl since now 6 months, we really fell in love and it was really something, it was intense love, and it's still the same now. We live a distance relationship but we see each other often.

Today we have been in a conflict where she is the one who is wrong, and she is 100%. But she can't admit anything like it's like she turned off, she doesn't want to hear what I'm saying she is just broken. But we've been in this situation before, and this time I don't want to give up and to do what I do usually: to just shut up, and switch to something else and forget about it. I've made this effort too much time , even apologizing for something she was responsible , this is going too far . Yes, this is intense love, yes I will not find 2 girls like that in my whole life, it's the luck of my life. But I can't let that situation go for too long.
This time I want advice from you guy, we should've seen ourselves the weekend of the 14-15. So we call ourselves all day, and today we got in an argument (she really hurt me for 100% free). At the end of the call I told her something by SMS, which was "I've made the effort too many time, now I hope you will make the effort if you think I'm worth it or you not, it's for you to see.

And she said, forget it, don't come (because it was planned I should visit her this weekend).

So I said, OK I cancel the trip. That's all, I just don't want to give up again, I want to see how she will react after this night, like will she text me tomorrow with apologies or anything or will she stay like a rock and leave me soon?

What do you think guys, I should do? Wait for her to apologize or to say that she regret or anything else.

Thank you so much
 

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Wesh.

Comme tu le soulignes, le problème est ancré dans votre relation et cette dispute est juste le prétexte pour remettre certaines choses sur la table. Ce qui est néanmoins pas clair dans ton discours, c'est pourquoi et comment elle t'a blessé. Aussi, pourquoi serait-elle brisée ? As-tu essayé d'en savoir plus de ce côté là ? Quelque chose qui marche, c'est quand tu fais une remarque (avec les F), il faut toujours grouper une chose positive avant d'en donner une négative, ça aide beaucoup, puis ça permet de partir sur de meilleures bases pour communiquer.

Vos types pourraient pas être plus différents, t'es INTP, elle est ESFJ, les contraires s'assemblent mais ça veut dire que vous avez pas les mêmes façons d'analyser les choses, de les ressentir et de les exprimer. Elle a l'air assez tournée vers elle-même et assez fière, probablement un peu trop pour se rendre compte qu'elle te blesse et pour se remettre en question. Essaie de voir pourquoi elle est brisée, vois si lorsque tu le fais elle te retourne la pareille pour voir pourquoi tu vas pas bien. Elle m'a l'air un peu égoïste, est-ce que j'ai tort ? Comment la décrirais-tu ?

Vous êtes au début de votre relation, c'est normal que ça soit passionnel, et ça fait aussi qu'on remarque certains côtés négatifs de la personne après un certain temps, elle commence à montrer les siens, est-ce que sur le long terme ça fera toujours d'elle la chance de ta vie ? Je n'en suis pas certaine. Pèse le pour et le contre dans la situation d'hier, vois ce qui aurait pu la blesser (peut être c'est de l'accumulation de plusieurs semaines ou de certaines choses), vois ce qu'elle aurait pu faire de positif qui soit en cohérence avec sa façon d'être. Si elle ne s'excuse pas, reviens vers elle avec un truc qui met en avant un consensus vis à vis de vous deux. Si elle n'arrive pas à faire un minimum de consensus, c'est que c'est pas quelqu'un qui te correspondra sur le long terme, tu as l'air d'être vraiment opposé à elle sur pas mal de choses, même si pour l'instant, tu as envie que ça marche. C'est pas toujours à toi de faire le premier pas.

Aussi, peut-être que quand elle t'a dit d'annuler c'était en mode " retiens-moi, viens ". En tout cas ça m'étonnerait pas, et le fait que tu annules pour elle ça peut être la confirmation du fait que tu as tort et que tu la blesses en gros. C'est tordu je suis d'accord, mais certaines personnes font ce genre de choses pour tester la personne en face d'elle.
 

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High school French paid off .. some. All in all, I think Lousia is right.

I'd add my personal impression: I usually doubt that one side in an argument is ever 100% wrong, otherwise there'd be no argument. From idk where - my mother?? - I learned to look for the reasons my partner is upset, even when it appeared unreasonable.

Even if she's wrong, there's a reason she may think / have thought otherwise, and acknowledging that reason could go a ways to resolving your differences: conveying, I guess, that you respect her in general even though you disagree in this case.

But pessimistically put: If she actually is wrong and knows it but is running away from admitting it, there may be more such problems down the road and perhaps you aren't so lucky.

I was in a relationship with what I think was an ESFJ, myself, but we lasted a long time because we were both good at compromising and admitting when we were wrong. If only one of you is doing that, the other is gonna have a bad time.
 

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I can't really read any of that but here's my take:

Consider that for her, it's probably not about being right at all. I could never tell you what it actually is about, but it could be the way you two communicate, it could be about something else entirely.

The thing is, as ESFJ and INTP you two share all your functions, but have them in the completly opposite order. That means that for her, Ti is hard and stressful (constructing logical arguments, going for truth over opinions... stuff like that), while for you Fe is hard (feeling out the other person's morals, seeing right and wrong as moral stances rather than logal stances... stuff like that). This gives great learning opportunities on the one hand, but great problems in communication on the other.

I've seen ESFJ's that are scared the other person might think they're stupid, building up walls whenever logic was concerned. They would behave in a similar way to what you describe, and never even tell the other party why they were acting this way (I think pretty often they might not even realize what they are doing).

Of course, while developing, your Ti and Fe start working together more and at some point there won't be much of a difference between the two anymore, but for now, it will remain a struggle. That's why your relationship can be so very beautiful (my parents have the same paring and they're very happy together, despite their differences).

My best advice is to try to find out what the actual problem is. Don't wait for an apology, but try to understand her first. I promise you that even the effort on your part to understand why she's acting in a certain way is going to be a good influence on the whole situation. The whole situation might not even have anything to do with you directly, but it could just be an outlet. In that case, being there for her and reasoning throught he whole thing together can be a great way to get on the same page again.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I can't really read any of that but here's my take:

Consider that for her, it's probably not about being right at all. I could never tell you what it actually is about, but it could be the way you two communicate, it could be about something else entirely.

The thing is, as ESFJ and INTP you two share all your functions, but have them in the completely opposite order. That means that for her, Ti is hard and stressful (constructing logical arguments, going for truth over opinions... stuff like that), while for you Fe is hard (feeling out the other person's morals, seeing right and wrong as moral stances rather than logal stances... stuff like that). This gives great learning opportunities on the one hand, but great problems in communication on the other.

I've seen ESFJ's that are scared the other person might think they're stupid, building up walls whenever logic was concerned. They would behave in a similar way to what you describe, and never even tell the other party why they were acting this way (I think pretty often they might not even realize what they are doing).

Of course, while developing, your Ti and Fe start working together more and at some point, there won't be much of a difference between the two anymore, but for now, it will remain a struggle. That's why your relationship can be so very beautiful (my parents have the same paring and they're very happy together, despite their differences).

My best advice is to try to find out what the actual problem is. Don't wait for an apology, but try to understand her first. I promise you that even the effort on your part to understand why she's acting in a certain way is going to be a good influence on the whole situation. The whole situation might not even have anything to do with you directly, but it could just be an outlet. In that case, being there for her and reasoning through the whole thing together can be a great way to get on the same page again.
Wow, you wanna know, you are totally right, and really this message helped me, I was about to take a really stupid decision when reading your message and you save me from doing a bad thing. Yes it's true it's better to understand her as she is not working the same way than me, but what I mean is that, even if we're both the opposite, I'm the opposite who always make the effort, and I feel it will always be like that? Do you think an ESFJ can evolve and understand my view to the point that conflict will be productive? Because for now I have totally understood her, but she didn't, and it's really hard, but I'm willing to take the pain if it's worth it, by worth it I mean, if you guys think it can bear fruit over time, or will it just comfort her to be in the dominant position all the time because I always make the first step?
 

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Wow, you wanna know, you are totally right, and really this message helped me, I was about to take a really stupid decision when reading your message and you save me from doing a bad thing. Yes it's true it's better to understand her as she is not working the same way than me, but what I mean is that, even if we're both the opposite, I'm the opposite who always make the effort, and I feel it will always be like that? Do you think an ESFJ can evolve and understand my view to the point that conflict will be productive? Because for now I have totally understood her, but she didn't, and it's really hard, but I'm willing to take the pain if it's worth it, by worth it I mean, if you guys think it can bear fruit over time, or will it just comfort her to be in the dominant position all the time because I always make the first step?
Glad that I could help a bit.

As to the question of if this will keep on occurring or if you can start changing how you two communicate on a permanent level: I think it's possible, but it depends a lot on maturity and willingness to change. Those things are not type-related.

It's possible that either (or both) of you aren't ready for the challenges this relationship would put on you, or maybe either of you would be unwilling to change how you communicate. That's okay if that's the case. Sometimes relationships don't work out. I know it's possible to move further in a situation like this if both of you try to change how you approach the other with issues like this. On the other hand: it should never be just one of you that has the responsibility for moving things along. If she's always expecting you to take the first step, that's not a good basis for a relationship and she needs to understand that if she wants things to work out, both of you have to work for it equally.

So, long story short: yes, things can work, but both of you need to realize that it's going to take work from both of you. (and it's going to take a lot of investment for the rest of your lives, regardless of personality types).
 
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