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I'm curious about ESFJs' experience with INTJs and/or ENTJs.

1) What differences do you notice (besides the obvious...I’m not looking for function vs. function comparison, etc. I’m looking for real-world examples of things you do differently or moments in which your differences are most evident)?

2) What traits, tendencies, etc. do you have in common?

3) What do you think of them?
 

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I feel like I should split this up into two posts because I have slightly different views on INTJs versus ENTJs.

Regarding INTJs: I know quite a few. My dad is one, as are many friends of mine (and some former love interests). I generally get along pretty well with them. I think there's a natural attraction between INTJs and ESFJs because they're such opposites and both appreciate the unique strengths that the other has. Also, an INTJ in love is quite adorable. :tongue: We're similar in that we both tend to be control freaks. We can both be manipulative, though we go about it in different ways (Te vs. Fe). We can both be creative with our solutions, and we are both good with managing money. We both like to analyze things to death before making a decision (like doing endless research on a car before buying it).

As far as differences go, there are the obvious introvert vs. extrovert differences (though I have met some very outgoing INTJs in my day too). INTJs tend to be amazing at long-range planning, which I am terrible at myself. The biggest difference I have noticed between my dad and me is that he has a much more flexible ethical code. He has no qualms about bending the rules or stepping on people to get what he wants. He thinks of it as taking advantage of every opportunity available. I think of it as cheating the system. I can't bring myself to do any of that. He has a more "win at any costs" approach, while I am more of a "win the honorable way or not at all" person. That has been hard for us to reconcile. Also, most of the INTJs I know have been super non-conformist in direct contrast to the traditional, conservative ESFJs. My mom is also an ESFJ and there are so many times where we do things just because "that's the way they're done" while my dad will just flat-out refuse to do it. A good example is returning shopping carts after grocery shopping. My dad will leave it in the middle of the parking lot right next to someone's car instead of walking the extra distance to return it. He doesn't care that it might hit someone else's car or block a parking space; he just doesn't feel like returning it. He also sees driving laws as "suggestions" rather than what they are--the law--and therefore is a godawful driver. Because of all of this, INTJs can often be accused of being selfish or uncaring of others. I know that deep down they know what is right, but if what is right is not what is most efficient or practical, you can bet they will do things their own way. I admire that, but I'm also perpetually mystified by it. I am convinced that with their drive, ambition, work ethic, ability, and ruthlessness, INTJs will eventually conquer the world.

As for ENTJs, I only know a few. I'm almost positive my boyfriend's close female friend is one, as is my current boss. We get along alright, but I find that they are not my favorite people to spend time with. They tend to complain a lot, and we just don't seem to have that much in common. And then the areas in which we are similar cause us to butt heads. We both like to be in charge and hate being bossed around (I seem to fight the most with xNTJs when they try to micromanage me. Drives me up the wall.). We're both great at running a household or managing other people. We're both good with money, like making connections with others, enjoy running our mouths :laughing: until everyone else gets sick of it. We're both dependable and responsible, willing to pick up the slack and do the things no one else wants to do. One specific example I can think of was after a party at a friend's house, the ENTJ and I were the only ones in the kitchen washing dishes while everyone else was having fun. We are both good at taking care of others though we go about it in different ways. We can also come off as pushy and overbearing by others due to our habit of trying to take care of everything. That's no surprise because unhealthy ESFJs can take on some ENTJ-like qualities because of our inferior Te.

We are different in that ENTJs are more driven, strategic, ambitious, and make more long-term plans. I have a lot of admiration and respect for ENTJs because they usually know exactly what they want, how they will get it, and no one has any doubt that they will. They seem to succeed at anything they put their minds to. INTJs are good at this too. ENTJs are less tactful and are less likely to conceal their true selves in favor of harmony and pleasantness. They usually don't really care if others like them, except when it impedes their goals. For ESFJs, our main goal often is just to be liked and to be happy. I find that ENTJs crave success and excellence instead. One ENTJ I know is planning on going into neurosurgery, which is demanding and rigorous, but also considered to be at the top of the field. I have no doubt that she will succeed. I'm not even considering neurosurgery because as a neurosurgeon, you don't have all that much time for a family, and family is most important to me. Whew, I've written a lot, so I'll let someone else fill in the blanks. I fear my response was a little too specific, but I'd be happy to answer any more questions!
 

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With the INTJs I've come across, the things we usually have in common are seriousness (although more consistently with them) and efficiency.
 

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I have an ENTJ friend and I just love her! She is a natural leader and she's also a creative and a very determined person with a lot of goals that she want to achieve! So she's serious and ambitious but at the same time she's funny and adorable!
I have in common with her the determination and the sense of humor! A difference is that she can't stop herself for a second and that she loves to take part on politics meetings\ debates!
 

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I know two ENTJs well. Both complain a lot and are pretty judgmental. One ENTJ was a former love, and our relationship had very serious issues. We were young and neither of us understood each other's personality, much less our own at the time. His mind was lonely, and my heart was lonely. And because of the Te vs Fe difference, there was a lot of hurt and confusion in the end.

The other ENTJ that I know well is one of my best friends. Because it's not a love relationship (no expectation of each other satisfying our Te or Fe), we actually function quite well together. I love how we are both very on top of things and are quick and at doing what needs to be done. He takes care of the long-range logistics that can require quite the mental power, while I take care of the smaller, short-range tasks which can require a lot of personal detail. We are both very extroverted and enjoy cutting loose and having a good time, but he would rather die while judging us a million times over before ever being as rambunctious and easy-going as what my ENTP best friend and I can be.

Oh, and I have an ENTJ girl friend but we're not as close. I like her and don't really have anything against her (except for my opinion of how she treats her ISFJ bf sometimes but really it's not my business and I stay out of it). But again, pretty judgmental seems to be the consensus.

So ENTJs as friends, definitely. As lovers, no way.

And I have a crush on someone who I think is an INTJ. Not sure, but he's definitely completely opposite of me and it's alluring.
 

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1) What differences do you notice (besides the obvious...I’m not looking for function vs. function comparison, etc. I’m looking for real-world examples of things you do differently or moments in which your differences are most evident)?
i'm emotional & more friendly and love interacting with every one limitlessly! but he's practical and mixes with people only upto a limit. he likes to keep a personal space for himself.
2) What traits, tendencies, etc. do you have in common?
actually nothing as such ..... both of us like to do researches 'bout human mind and personality type....... both of us are creative!
3) What do you think of them?
the perfect words to describe him are independent, visionary,original, global & practical
 

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1) Besides the obvious I've noticed I am more sociable and amicable toward people. My INTJ boyfriend, @DoctorSkywalker, tends not mingle with others unless approached. My ENTJ father is similar. He does not seem to care about any individual's feelings not taking them into account in a a decision.

2) My INTJ boyfriend and I are both very liberal politically, both have similar tastes in literature, and similar distastes in music. Overall we get a long very very well: he really likes/appreciates my Fe as I admire his Te. MMy father and I disagree often with our conflicting views but nothing I can say specifically.

3) INTJ's and ENTJ's are self sufficient and unique.
 

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My mom is probably an ESFJ, and my dad is strong INTJ. Interestingly enough, most of their behaviors are completely opposite from what you highlighted in your post.
I.e. My dad's the more idealistic and the one with a strong "code of honor" while my mom is more practical and more willing to bend the rules if no one's watching. (There was once when I realized I'd accidentally cheated on something in school, and the teacher didn't notice. My dad was like "That's wrong, you should turn yourself in" and my mom said "That's stupid, why would you get yourself in trouble on purpose?") Although my mom is much more risk-averse than my dad, and hence she's the one with a cleaner traffic record. :p
 

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As an ENTJ, one thing I've noticed with ESFJs is that they tend to like my humor in a "that's so wrong, and I'm so naughty for laughing at that" way.
 

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As an ENTJ, one thing I've noticed with ESFJs is that they tend to like my humor in a "that's so wrong, and I'm so naughty for laughing at that" way.
As far as making jokes go, for me, it's a battle between "that's hilarious! That'll get a few laughs" and "wow that is so harsh you are a terrible person!" normally I just say it, and regret it later.

Internal struggles, man.
 

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As far as making jokes go, for me, it's a battle between "that's hilarious! That'll get a few laughs" and "wow that is so harsh you are a terrible person!" normally I just say it, and regret it later.

Internal struggles, man.
That's the beauty of not playing to a crowd, but seeking to entertain yourself. When I make a joke, it's not about how that joke is funny to me, it's about how someone's reaction to it is entertaining to me, regardless of what it is. Social interactions is about me having fun first and foremost, if the other people involved happen to be having fun, that's awesome, if they don't then it's not my problem.
 

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I'm new to this forum, and am an ESFJ. Everything I found online previously said that an ESFJ/INTJ mix was unusual but after looking on here, it's really not. My best friend is an INTJ and we make a very interesting team. While I handle people and social interaction better, she reads people better. So while I'm talking and laughing with a new acquaintance, she's quietly watching and observing them. Afterwards, I can rattle off facts about the persons life while she didn't hear a single thing we were talking about but yet she has a detailed opinion on their personality and such. If someone is having a breakdown or a crisis or just a mini cry fest, I'm the one to "Awww" and offer a hug and be the sympathetic one while my BFF is not going to jump in but rather look on and then offer a realistic view on the situation, sometimes blunt and to the point, sometimes a bit sympathetic(but not very often), but always insightful. While to me her bluntness often comes off as rude, to her it's not rude at all, she belives she was just being honest and saying what she thought. If she is with very many people for a very long period of time she begins to get in what I affectionatly refer to as "one of her moods" but in reality, she just needs some alone time to recharge. Fortunately, I'm usually about the only one exempt from that. I've learned that when she reaches this point that she's fine with me being there, but I do try to be quieter than normal and usually watch a movie or look on pinterest, but I have noticed she doesn't really care for anyone else to be around. She doesn't seem to have a problem with me or her dog at these times but thats about it:) Thanks to our friendship, we've helped each other with certain aspects that are traits of our personality. Of course we can't "fix" them, they're a part of us, and why would we even want to? But for instance, I'm trying to work on not having my feelings hurt so easily, and I've gotten a little better, no so much with everyone but when she says something in her sweet but yet very blunt way, I try not to take it so personally because I know she's just being honest and trying to help me. In the same way, she's a little bit more willing to be around people a tad bit longer and be a little bit more tolerant of them if I'm there to kind of act as a sort of buffer and the one for her to quietly vent to if needed. Well, I think I got a little carried away in my descriptions, oops:unsure:
 

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I feel like I should split this up into two posts because I have slightly different views on INTJs versus ENTJs.

Regarding INTJs: I know quite a few. My dad is one, as are many friends of mine (and some former love interests). I generally get along pretty well with them. I think there's a natural attraction between INTJs and ESFJs because they're such opposites and both appreciate the unique strengths that the other has. Also, an INTJ in love is quite adorable. :tongue: We're similar in that we both tend to be control freaks. We can both be manipulative, though we go about it in different ways (Te vs. Fe). We can both be creative with our solutions, and we are both good with managing money. We both like to analyze things to death before making a decision (like doing endless research on a car before buying it).

As far as differences go, there are the obvious introvert vs. extrovert differences (though I have met some very outgoing INTJs in my day too). INTJs tend to be amazing at long-range planning, which I am terrible at myself. The biggest difference I have noticed between my dad and me is that he has a much more flexible ethical code. He has no qualms about bending the rules or stepping on people to get what he wants. He thinks of it as taking advantage of every opportunity available. I think of it as cheating the system. I can't bring myself to do any of that. He has a more "win at any costs" approach, while I am more of a "win the honorable way or not at all" person. That has been hard for us to reconcile. Also, most of the INTJs I know have been super non-conformist in direct contrast to the traditional, conservative ESFJs. My mom is also an ESFJ and there are so many times where we do things just because "that's the way they're done" while my dad will just flat-out refuse to do it. A good example is returning shopping carts after grocery shopping. My dad will leave it in the middle of the parking lot right next to someone's car instead of walking the extra distance to return it. He doesn't care that it might hit someone else's car or block a parking space; he just doesn't feel like returning it. He also sees driving laws as "suggestions" rather than what they are--the law--and therefore is a godawful driver. Because of all of this, INTJs can often be accused of being selfish or uncaring of others. I know that deep down they know what is right, but if what is right is not what is most efficient or practical, you can bet they will do things their own way. I admire that, but I'm also perpetually mystified by it. I am convinced that with their drive, ambition, work ethic, ability, and ruthlessness, INTJs will eventually conquer the world.

As for ENTJs, I only know a few. I'm almost positive my boyfriend's close female friend is one, as is my current boss. We get along alright, but I find that they are not my favorite people to spend time with. They tend to complain a lot, and we just don't seem to have that much in common. And then the areas in which we are similar cause us to butt heads. We both like to be in charge and hate being bossed around (I seem to fight the most with xNTJs when they try to micromanage me. Drives me up the wall.). We're both great at running a household or managing other people. We're both good with money, like making connections with others, enjoy running our mouths :laughing: until everyone else gets sick of it. We're both dependable and responsible, willing to pick up the slack and do the things no one else wants to do. One specific example I can think of was after a party at a friend's house, the ENTJ and I were the only ones in the kitchen washing dishes while everyone else was having fun. We are both good at taking care of others though we go about it in different ways. We can also come off as pushy and overbearing by others due to our habit of trying to take care of everything. That's no surprise because unhealthy ESFJs can take on some ENTJ-like qualities because of our inferior Te.

We are different in that ENTJs are more driven, strategic, ambitious, and make more long-term plans. I have a lot of admiration and respect for ENTJs because they usually know exactly what they want, how they will get it, and no one has any doubt that they will. They seem to succeed at anything they put their minds to. INTJs are good at this too. ENTJs are less tactful and are less likely to conceal their true selves in favor of harmony and pleasantness. They usually don't really care if others like them, except when it impedes their goals. For ESFJs, our main goal often is just to be liked and to be happy. I find that ENTJs crave success and excellence instead. One ENTJ I know is planning on going into neurosurgery, which is demanding and rigorous, but also considered to be at the top of the field. I have no doubt that she will succeed. I'm not even considering neurosurgery because as a neurosurgeon, you don't have all that much time for a family, and family is most important to me. Whew, I've written a lot, so I'll let someone else fill in the blanks. I fear my response was a little too specific, but I'd be happy to answer any more questions!
Wow, thank you for this very informative post. I've read some of your posts before and I admire how you are totally against the stereotypes of ESFJ. I am also in my own way battling this "stereotype" madness. Your descriptions are quite helpful for me, being very specific. That's truly something sensors are good at.

I also noticed the same "complaining" behavior about ENTJs. I thought I was the only one who noticed. I have been perplexed about why their single-letter difference from me had led to the considerable difference, because I am not a complainer. When presented with a difficult situation, my instinct is to solve the problem, not to complain about why things are happening the way they are. I'm currently in law school and have this ENTJ seatmate who would complain about every single wrong thing any professor would do. Very confusing behavior for me! I'd just laugh at his heated quips all the same, because I find it funny that anyone would be so affected by such things.

But I digress.

I haven't met many confirmed ESFJs, but I think the lady renting our flat is one. She's pretty demanding but well-mannered. What I appreciate in her is her responsibility and thoughtfulness. She can have this funny habit of always giving some small talk whenever she talks to me for any small matter, while I would prefer that she just go straight to the point. Maybe it's a standard ESFJ thing. I don't mind as long as she pays the bills, and she does anyway. Responsible, responsible.

I wish I met more confirmed ESFJs so I can observe them. Or maybe they just have this habit of avoiding me. TOO BAD. :|
 

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I also noticed the same "complaining" behavior about ENTJs. I thought I was the only one who noticed.
Interesting! I'd never noticed it before but all but one of the ENTJs I know personally and can think of right now do have a habit of doing this!

I wish I met more confirmed ESFJs so I can observe them. Or maybe they just have this habit of avoiding me.
I can't imagine an ESFJ avoiding anybody. If you're pleasant to them they'll be more than pleasant back.
 

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I would avoid someone if they freaked me out (legitimate emotional overload or stalker-ish behavior). I would go as far as to hide in bushes/trashcans if they made me uncomfortable. I have a pathetic fear of confrontation when I don't know how to handle the situation. I just kind of hope it goes away, although I know that's completely counter productive.
 

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Wow, thank you for this very informative post. I've read some of your posts before and I admire how you are totally against the stereotypes of ESFJ. I am also in my own way battling this "stereotype" madness. Your descriptions are quite helpful for me, being very specific. That's truly something sensors are good at.

I also noticed the same "complaining" behavior about ENTJs. I thought I was the only one who noticed. I have been perplexed about why their single-letter difference from me had led to the considerable difference, because I am not a complainer. When presented with a difficult situation, my instinct is to solve the problem, not to complain about why things are happening the way they are. I'm currently in law school and have this ENTJ seatmate who would complain about every single wrong thing any professor would do. Very confusing behavior for me! I'd just laugh at his heated quips all the same, because I find it funny that anyone would be so affected by such things.

But I digress.

I haven't met many confirmed ESFJs, but I think the lady renting our flat is one. She's pretty demanding but well-mannered. What I appreciate in her is her responsibility and thoughtfulness. She can have this funny habit of always giving some small talk whenever she talks to me for any small matter, while I would prefer that she just go straight to the point. Maybe it's a standard ESFJ thing. I don't mind as long as she pays the bills, and she does anyway. Responsible, responsible.

I wish I met more confirmed ESFJs so I can observe them. Or maybe they just have this habit of avoiding me. TOO BAD. :|
You're welcome! I'm glad you found it helpful. Yes, ESFJs tend to be very chatty when it comes to small talk. If we run our mouth around you though, that usually means we like you or that we feel comfortable being around you. I can be quite shy around people I don't know so well, but I never shut up around my friends and family.

You know, it's interesting that you mention wishing your ESFJ renter would get to the point. I often find my dad the INTJ is the one who needs to get to the point and I'm the one feeling impatient. When he's not in business-mode, he tends to wax philosophical about things, which is fine and dandy, but it's hard for me to extrapolate one main idea out of the hodgepodge of stuff he just said in order for me to respond to it. I often crack up when he'll go on a tangent about something for ten minutes straight and my ESFJ mom will cut in with, "What exactly are you trying to say? Are you going to get there within the next year?" Probably classic N vs. S differences, but it's always funny to observe.
 

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You're welcome! I'm glad you found it helpful. Yes, ESFJs tend to be very chatty when it comes to small talk. If we run our mouth around you though, that usually means we like you or that we feel comfortable being around you. I can be quite shy around people I don't know so well, but I never shut up around my friends and family.

You know, it's interesting that you mention wishing your ESFJ renter would get to the point. I often find my dad the INTJ is the one who needs to get to the point and I'm the one feeling impatient. When he's not in business-mode, he tends to wax philosophical about things, which is fine and dandy, but it's hard for me to extrapolate one main idea out of the hodgepodge of stuff he just said in order for me to respond to it. I often crack up when he'll go on a tangent about something for ten minutes straight and my ESFJ mom will cut in with, "What exactly are you trying to say? Are you going to get there within the next year?" Probably classic N vs. S differences, but it's always funny to observe.
Oh, I'm glad to hear then that our renter seems to like me :)

Maybe it's really the S-N divide. :) I find it quite intriguing sometimes. I'm guessing your INTJ dad is mentioning something philosophical or abstract in order to give you a better view of what he means. It's how we N types generally communicate. We want to give not only a view of what we are trying to say, but also a "feel" of it. To him, it is being direct, which may be quite strange to you I imagine as I have trouble talking with Sensors as well. :)
 

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Interesting! I'd never noticed it before but all but one of the ENTJs I know personally and can think of right now do have a habit of doing this!

I can't imagine an ESFJ avoiding anybody. If you're pleasant to them they'll be more than pleasant back.
I'm guessing it may be because I have had a short temper in recent years due to stressful situations, so the ESFJs might tend to avoid me. Though on second thought, I think I have one ESFJ friend... she's great :)

Yeah! ENTJs make me wonder sometimes, if they take so many things personally. They just don't run out of things to complain about. It's funny. I'm wondering if it's their way of socializing or flirting. There's this ENTJ I sit with beside in class who I theorize may like me a bit, and he always complains to me. Since they are so forceful personalities, they may take to forceful ways of communicating as well in order to socialize, in which complaining may be an example of...
 

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I'm curious about ESFJs' experience with INTJs and/or ENTJs.

1) What differences do you notice (besides the obvious...I’m not looking for function vs. function comparison, etc. I’m looking for real-world examples of things you do differently or moments in which your differences are most evident)?

2) What traits, tendencies, etc. do you have in common?

3) What do you think of them?
1. and/or 2 In INTJ, we don't have in common but there's one.. :) We want to feel safe..
In ENTJ, we are talkative, ENTJ are Selfish or Self-centered while opposite to us ESFJ..
3. In INTJ, I think they don't need anyone, they are independent.
In ENTJ, they're so selfish, they want to be first..
 
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