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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So because of your Fe you guys tend to be nice and sweet to others right? But obviously people can't be nice all the time, and ESFJs have also often been compared to the Queen Bee in schools and stuff, so what makes you act badly/be mean to someone, and how do you go about it? (Like what do you do when you're being mean).

And do you think it is your Fe at work even when you're being mean and maybe manipulative? If so, how does Fe play a part in maintaining social harmony when you're being mean?

I apologize for the incoherently worded questions.
 

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I have an ESFJ friend, she's very attractive and popular, but whenever I am in the room she immediately tries to bait me into an argument by mentioning a flaw or a way she's better than me. She gets ignored and I just move along, but it's consistent enough for me to be aware.

Food for thought, she used to message me every day trying to get me to shower her in attention like she does with everyone else and I said that I was busy and I didn't have time for small talk, ever since that day; Absolute nightmare to be around.
 

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I'm not mean unless someone tries to insinuate that they are better than me in some way. Or if they leave me out of something.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm not mean unless someone tries to insinuate that they are better than me in some way. Or if they leave me out of something.
Then in what way are you mean? What do you do that is mean in that case?
And what if that person is actually better than you in that way, would you still resort to being mean or unkind?
 

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Then in what way are you mean? What do you do that is mean in that case?
And what if that person is actually better than you in that way, would you still resort to being mean or unkind?
I tend to hate on everything they are and everything they stand for, if they are mean to me. I'll tell them that they are a bad person, immoral, rude, etc. Just in general try to make them feel badly. And nobody is better than anybody else
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I tend to hate on everything they are and everything they stand for, if they are mean to me. I'll tell them that they are a bad person, immoral, rude, etc. Just in general try to make them feel badly. And nobody is better than anybody else
But some people are always better than others in certain things, certainly not all. So you'll tell them to their face?

But isn't social harmony something your Fe stands for? And by degrading another person (albeit if it's for a good reason), isn't it something your Fe is against?
And would you hate on everything they stand for even if you think some of their beliefs make sense, because they were rude to you or you dislike them?
 

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But some people are always better than others in certain things, certainly not all. So you'll tell them to their face?

But isn't social harmony something your Fe stands for? And by degrading another person (albeit if it's for a good reason), isn't it something your Fe is against?
And would you hate on everything they stand for even if you think some of their beliefs make sense, because they were rude to you or you dislike them?
Yeah I'll tell them to their face but it usually only happens online. And I have no problem with degrading another person if they've degraded me. And yes, I would hate their ideas, even if they make sense, if they are rude to me or I dislike them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah I'll tell them to their face but it usually only happens online. And I have no problem with degrading another person if they've degraded me. And yes, I would hate their ideas, even if they make sense, if they are rude to me or I dislike them.
Thanks for your response, though may I ask, what type of people do you dislike?
 

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Thanks for your response, though may I ask, what type of people do you dislike?
anyone who leaves me out of stuff, people who are fake to me, people who think they are better than others, people without any tact
 

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I think Petunia in Harry Potter is ESFJ, she's just generally a cunt with Harry because she hates that he's a wizard, something she was jealous of his mother, lily being when they were kids. She's jelly.
 

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1) On attention: Is it reasonable for any adult to expect to be the beginning, end, beat all, end all, and complete center of everyone else's world?

2) On being left out: Do people have a duty to be around a given person, if they really don't want to be?

3) Does a person truly have the right to lash out at others because of THEIR OWN personal insecurities? Personal insecurities are just that -- personal. They have nothing to do with the other people, and everything to do with the person holding them.

4) Should people tell others whatever they want to hear, whether it is true or not? And if it isn't true, aren't they just lying?

5) When someone lashes out due to irrational attitudes like 1-4 with inappropriate, rude, and irrational behavior, do you think it makes people people think well of that person, or poorly of that person?
 

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1) On attention: Is it reasonable for any adult to expect to be the beginning, end, beat all, end all, and complete center of everyone else's world?

2) On being left out: Do people have a duty to be around a given person, if they really don't want to be?

3) Does a person truly have the right to lash out at others because of THEIR OWN personal insecurities? Personal insecurities are just that -- personal. They have nothing to do with the other people, and everything to do with the person holding them.

4) Should people tell others whatever they want to hear, whether it is true or not? And if it isn't true, aren't they just lying?

5) When someone lashes out due to irrational attitudes like 1-4 with inappropriate, rude, and irrational behavior, do you think it makes people people think well of that person, or poorly of that person?
People are mean to me by leaving me out and they shouldn't do that
 

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People are mean to me by leaving me out and they shouldn't do that
But do you ever leave people out? (Yes, people that have ticked you off lately still count.)

And what about the other points on the list?
 

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But do you ever leave people out? (Yes, people that have ticked you off lately still count.)

And what about the other points on the list?
No I do not leave people out, or at least I try not to.

About the other points:

1. I don't expect to be the center of someone else's world, I expect to be respected enough for people to actually talk to me.

2. already explained

3. Yes I do because when someone triggers my personal insecurities they need to know not to do that

4. Tact is more important than truth. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

5. It makes them think poorly of that person but it shouldn't.
 

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No I do not leave people out, or at least I try not to.

About the other points:

1. I don't expect to be the center of someone else's world, I expect to be respected enough for people to actually talk to me.
Even if we have little else in common, we are both extraverts, you and I. Yeah... for someone to actively snub can be irritating, depending on who it is. Then again, if they are actively snubbing you... well, who needs them and their attitude problem, anyway? Aren't you better off without them, instead of having to deal with their rotten attitude?

I feel like I am, when it happens to me. :)

2. already explained
You never leave people out, seriously? Well, you'd have to at least sometimes... you throw a party, you can't invite everyone in the world, you know? No house is big enough for that, lol. But people are more prone to leave out those they don't feel close to... is that what bothers you about it so much? That for them to leave you out is them saying they don't care about you, or you're just not as important to them as others are?

3. Yes I do because when someone triggers my personal insecurities they need to know not to do that
You see it as justice, is that it? If someone triggers your personal insecurities and makes you feel bad, then you consider it as only fair to trigger their personal insecurities and make them feel bad, too?

But what if they didn't know you were insecure about that, or it was just flat-out unavoidable, given the situation?

4. Tact is more important than truth. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
I consider the opposite to be true... that truth is more important than tact. However, tact still is important, for pragmatic reasons if nothing else. (If everyone is all pissed off, it's harder to accomplish things and get stuff done. Bad morale tends to lead to less productivity, greater absenteeism, more behavioral problems, etc.)

It's often not so much what you say, as how you say it. That is what tact is, to me -- the art of making a point without making an enemy.

5. It makes them think poorly of that person but it shouldn't.
But consider it from their perspective... they've just come in, they're trying to get a project completed, prepping for that meeting for next week, maybe, or whatever... and then suddenly, there's all this snapping and shouting and whatnot. Or they've just got home from work, and they're trying to relax after a long, hard, day, and suddenly... yeah, all this snapping and shouting. Can you see why they'd feel irritated about it? And wouldn't it be more tactful (and more effective, in many cases) to approach the problem without being mean, anyway?

My Fe is damned near nonexistent, but I do have a temper. The problem is, and I'm speaking from personal experience here... tearing people's heads off might work in the short term, to get you what you want. But over the long term, it just makes people dislike you, and makes them afraid.
 
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Even if we have little else in common, we are both extraverts, you and I. Yeah... for someone to actively snub can be irritating, depending on who it is. Then again, if they are actively snubbing you... well, who needs them and their attitude problem, anyway? Aren't you better off without them, instead of having to deal with their rotten attitude?

I feel like I am, when it happens to me. :)



You never leave people out, seriously? Well, you'd have to at least sometimes... you throw a party, you can't invite everyone in the world, you know? No house is big enough for that, lol. But people are more prone to leave out those they don't feel close to... is that what bothers you about it so much? That for them to leave you out is them saying they don't care about you, or you're just not as important to them as others are?



You see it as justice, is that it? If someone triggers your personal insecurities and makes you feel bad, then you consider it as only fair to trigger their personal insecurities and make them feel bad, too?

But what if they didn't know you were insecure about that, or it was just flat-out unavoidable, given the situation?



I consider the opposite to be true... that truth is more important than tact. However, tact still is important, for pragmatic reasons if nothing else. (If everyone is all pissed off, it's harder to accomplish things and get stuff done. Bad morale tends to lead to less productivity, greater absenteeism, more behavioral problems, etc.)

It's often not so much what you say, as how you say it. That is what tact is, to me -- the art of making a point without making an enemy.



But consider it from their perspective... they've just come in, they're trying to get a project completed, prepping for that meeting for next week, maybe, or whatever... and then suddenly, there's all this snapping and shouting and whatnot. Or they've just got home from work, and they're trying to relax after a long, hard, day, and suddenly... yeah, all this snapping and shouting. Can you see why they'd feel irritated about it? And wouldn't it be more tactful (and more effective, in many cases) to approach the problem without being mean, anyway?

My Fe is damned near nonexistent, but I do have a temper. The problem is, and I'm speaking from personal experience here... tearing people's heads off might work in the short term, to get you what you want. But over the long term, it just makes people dislike you, and makes them afraid.
If they were never going to like me to begin with then I do want them to be afraid of me. Just so they know they can't get away with doing anything mean to me.
 
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